amy55

I talked to my youngest daughter today at the baby shower. D28. Had some alone time with her. This is the daughter that just started to talk to me again. She said to me, "I don't know why you had to put Dad in jail that time when you threw yourself down the stairs. "

I didn't throw myself down the stairs, he punched me in the head and I called 911, they took him to jail and me to the ER.

I told her this, and she asked me to stop lying to her. Told me that her Dad took responsibility for what he did wrong, that he told her that he was no angel, but................... and I guess he just blamed me for everything. I have no idea of what else he told her and I didn't push it, because it might have turned into an argument. I just told her that I will accept responsibility for everything that I did, but I can't take responsibility for that.

It took me a long time to stop hating him, don't know how I feel right now, but if I was driving the Karma Bus, and I saw him, that Karma Bus would run right over him.


amy

53500

Hi there, you told your daughter the truth and didn't push it. Best possible response IMO. You cannot control what others say to her or what she believes.

Totally understand about the karma bus. Not to worry, these things take care of themselves.

::hugs::

amy55

It's after 2 in the morning now. I still can't sleep. My daughter also referenced something about me being in the garage. I went there a lot. I slept there a lot, in my locked car. I was afraid to go in the house. He was telling them that he tried to talk to me, and I would go crazy and punch him in the face, or take a gardening tool and threaten him.

I lost 5 years of contact with my daughter because of this, and I can't say anything, because then I would be putting her in the middle of things.

I understand this, but why with him (the ex) saying these things about me, I guess I wonder, why was that acceptable?

I just feel sick knowing now what he was doing, how he was playing everyone.

What I was hearing about myself today, if I didn't know me, if I wasn't me, and if I wasn't there, I would probably hate me also. But, I was there.

amy

Butterfly

((((Hugs)))) Amy I think you handles the situation really well. You can't force someone to believe you all you can do is be honest and its up to them what they want to believe. It's possible that he has manipulated her into believing his lies they've had a lot of years with him without you to contradict his lies.

One step at a time Amy.

amy55

I remember many times, especially X-Mas, he would start with me, I didn't want to be in a car with him. He would be going to see his family. After a night of raging at me. I would hide in the bedroom would the door locked, he would put on a big show of begging me to go to his family x-mas. I would agree and unlock the door. He would have that look in his eye and quietly sing "I gotta be me, I gotta be me............... I knew what I was in for, so I changed my mind and would stay home.

He did this to be also in the car when we were by ourselves, I would tell him to pull over that I wasn't going anywhere. He told people that I was crazy and jumped out of a moving car.

I can see how I looked crazy, no one saw or heard this happening, just me being irrational.

I've been dealing with lots of triggers. Seems like this is just another one. I can't believe, but I will, that he has been intentionally setting this up, but he has. If it's not intention, he really is nuts and has always been re writing history.

It's almost like I need a realty check tonight.

amy

amy55

Throwing myself down a flight of stairs. I am so afraid of height. I wouldn't even walk fast down steps. And I threw myself down the steps.

And I have been having this hatred from my kids for over 5 years. All the while when I was married they were all telling me to leave.

And they bought this BS.

He is so good at that.

OK, let me tell you about today. I wasn't going to go to this baby shower. It was down the NJ shore. In the summer. Traffic everywhere. So I spent the night at my oldest daughters house. D40. We get to Belmar NJ and they have a seafood festival. No parking anywhere. Drove around for an hour looking for a parking place. None to be found. Went to the next town over, got a spot there. Well this is the NJ Shore. Of course they have bridges that go up and down to let boats through. And of course on our way back to the car, the bridge just started to go up. Which meant we were stuck for at least a half hour.

Then tonight I drove home in the pouring rain, and I am exhausted, my head won't stop talking to me.

amy

redatlanta

Amy lots of hugs.

I think that your daughter is talking about this is positive. Its painful for you but its positive. Apparently for years she has been told an inaccurate version of the story. She is not going to jump from an ingrained belief quickly. However, you have planted a seed. I am curious what your other children think or know? Is anyone aware of what was really going on and knows/believes the truth?

I would imagine the disclosure that her father was physically abusive will be painful. Does she know that side of him at all?

LexieCat

I don't think you need to lay out every detail for her, but you might ask her to imagine HOW someone could "throw herself down the stairs." There are people who self-harm, there are people who inflict minor injuries on themselves for the sake of accusing someone else, but I have yet to encounter anyone capable of willfully throwing herself down a flight of stairs. It's too uncontrollable.

Ironically, my neighbor down the street is in critical condition, and not expected to live, after falling down the stairs at her mother's home. She's in her 70s and has a severe brain stem injury.

I would keep quietly telling your daughter the truth. Don't worry about "putting her in the middle"--she isn't a little girl anymore, and she deserves to know the truth. You can tell her that you don't have any interest in destroying her relationship with her dad, that she should feel free to love him and have a relationship with him, but that he did not tell her the truth about some things.

She can believe you or not believe you--that's her choice and you don't have to convince her, but don't allow her to silence you, either, or prevent you from speaking the truth.

Hugs,

amy55

Hi Redatlanta,

I have not been able to sleep.

I had tried to hide the abuse from them. First time he physically attacked me was when my daughter was 8. We had a living room, a family room and a basement with a TV, The kids were usually in some other room watching TV. He threw me to the floor that time, kicked me in the ribs. When the kids came in he was complaining about what a lazy b...h I was and went to sleep at 8:00pm. Kids also helped me clean up broken glass one time when he threw a beer glass at my head from the garage, but he left, and I guess that can look like I threw the beer glass. No, they never directly saw him hit me. He was really sneaky. He didn't have the full blown rages when they were around. He raged at them on occasion, but I jumped in so that he would leave them alone, and then he took it out on me.

I did get uncontrollable at times, I didn't know what I was dealing with. I would beg him to please stop this, don't you care about me, and he would practically whisper to me, "no, I don't, look at you, how can anyone care about you, follow by a lot more of emotional abuse. Kids mostly heard me crying.

My daughter still seems to want a relationship with me, but I find it very hard to bite my tongue, when I am hearing that I was the crazy, viscous abusive person. I can't make amends for that.

He had given me another black eye after that. He cut my face open under my eye, the kids were in college then, he asked me to lie for him. I did. I was afraid to report it. He worked for the gov't. I thought he would be fired. Never got treatment for it. My son came home from college the next day. I told him how I went to get something out of the garage and it was on the top shelf and it fell on me. I lied to protect him.

He sounds so convincing. I even start to doubt myself. I think I am just so tired of JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain). I think I got to the point where I just don't care what my children think of me either, and that makes me cry, but I can't fight another battle.

At this point, I give up. If I try to do any talking or explaining then I am bad mouthing him, trying to put them in the middle, and making a victim out of myself.

How did he play such a good victim, and blame everything on me, with them standing behind him?

I have no idea. It hurts my head and hurts my heart.

amy

amy55

Lexie,

you were typing when I was typing. There is not way, with my fear of height, that I could have thrown myself down the stairs. I have to even hold the railing no matter how many stairs I descend.

I think I was just so flabbergasted to hear that, I didn't know what to say.

I could only tell her the truth, and she seemed annoyed at me like I was lying, but the she let it go......................

I'll put it this way, she was feeling no pain after the baby shower. I didn't know that. (It's a nice way of saying she probably had too much to drink)

When that bridge opened for the boats, my oldest daughter and my niece went to get Italian ice, my youngest daughter said she was going to get a beer. I didn't want her to go alone, and I thought she wanted to talk to me, which is what she wanted, so I went to the bar with her. (I did have a coke). She started to get over emotional in the bar, and this is when she was telling me this.

She was mad, then hurt, then angry, then loving. Telling me how beautiful I am, took my hair out of my pony tail, then kept hugging me, then in the car, she was in the front seat, I was in the back, she kept holding my hand.

I was supposed go straight home after getting back to my daughters house. They kidnapped me. They wanted to go to get something to eat and another drink. I didn't get home till 11:30. It was such a strange day.

I don't know what she will remember today. The reason why she hated me, or that she loves me.

I know I didn't give her any real answers or answers that she will accept.

I'm just a mess today.

amy

PS - thanks for listening

searching peace

Amy, first of all I am sending you very big hugs! Second, I think it is a good sign that your daughter is asking questions. In my opinion, it might mean somewhere she is doubting what your ex is telling them. And this is NOT their biological father. I know he has adopted them or been a father to them. But none of your children are young anymore. In my opinion, You have to tell her the truth. You have to explain why you haven't until now. Go back in as much detail as possible. It might bring up repressed memories for her. I'm sure even though you think the kids didn't see or hear, they did. I'm also equally as sure, they have suppressed those memories. As you know, I have been in an abusive marriage and as a self survival technique, I suppress memories of things that happened directly to me. Please tell her all that you can. I'm wondering if he has done something either to his new wife or something else for her to try to have a relationship with you now and to ask you these questions. Also, please google psychopath. It gives a clear explanation of how a psychopath will lie and use the abused own children against them. It also states this very clearly in Lundy Bancrofts book "why does he do that". It is very typical of an abuser. My stbxah has done this with my children, tried to get them on "his side" and tried to get them to look at me and my behavior as in the wrong. It is also easy and common for the abused to be looked at as crazy. We are the ones reeling from all of the emotional, verbal, physical assaults while the abuser walks around and is charismatic and charming. It is calculated and purposeful. So fight back. Do not allow yourself to be abused all over again. Speak up. Give your daughter Lundy's book. Tell her everything and ask her to read that book to better understand what you have gone through. Tell her you will always tell her the truth and never try to cover up to protect her again.

amy55

sp, my 2 youngest children are his. My oldest daughter D40, he adopted. They all remembered things that he has done to them, and it seems like since things got twisted around? all that is forgotten.

Things got bad when CPS visited my daughter, supposedly on an anonymous tip from me. I never called CPS. To this day I do strongly believe that he did it because I was in a disagreement with my daughter about a grandsons birthday party. He was taking all the parties, and I wanted to go to one because my mom was flying in from Florida for it. Enough info was given to warrant a visit, but not enough to do anything about it. I was blamed for that.

Psychopath, I'm not sure. I strongly suspect Borderline Personality Disorder, but saying that there can be psychopath tendencies, since there is no empathy, and I know for a fact he has no empathy.

His current gf. I am trying to make light conversation with her when I see her. I was doing this so if there is a function that we need to go to that we can be comfortable around each other. I don't want her to feel stressed because I will be there. I don't know if my kids have witnessed anything yet, but I have. I know he is abusing her, even though she might not know it yet.

I would like to know all the lies that he told them, but I can't just come right out and ask them. That might send them away from me. I don't know what he is doing in the background now.

I never in a million years thought I would ever hear that I flung myself down a flight of steps so that I could have him locked up in jail.

After hearing that, nothing else will surprise me.

amy

healthyagain

Oh Amy, so sorry to hear that. You know the truth. You told your daughter the truth. And sometimes truth is hard to accept. Your daughter is in denial. God knows what she was told before.

Recently, I found out that my AH had manic depressive episodes. After 8 years of marriage, I get the info that my AH might be bipolar. The landlady told me. She told me he was in a really bad condition before he met me. The same guy who is always criticizing everybody and everyone, especially his mom and sister, his sister who was actually officially diagnosed as bipolar! I also discovered that he lied to everybody about what he was doing in my country. He was not training military, he was UNEMPLOYED! When we moved here, his family treated him so bad. I've always wondered why, but still stood on his side. Protected him. Like a faithful dog. I fell for everything he said! Why? Because it was so hard for me to comprehend that someone could do something like that to another human being.

Why am I telling you this? I think the abusers tend to create the reality, they make up things, and you as the victim have wool over your eyes. Your daughters were manipulated. They were lied to. Chronically lied to for years. Decades. Those lies are their reality. It was easier for them to believe that you are the bad one, the crazy one. Sometimes the truth is so horrible that we choose to close our eyes, keep our head in the sand.

Perhaps it is time for your daughters to hear your side of story. They do not have to take sides or anything. But that is only fair. You are not justifying anything. Just saying how it was. They can believe it or not. But in any case, they might start wondering.

And yea, karma is a b***. The biggest b*** that your abusive ex-husband will ever meet.

ShootingStar1

Amy, one thing that was at times very very hard for me, was remembering that then was then, and now is now.

When I would see my XH, or have an interaction with him during the divorce, it was as if I, emotionally, had catapulted right back into the emotional space of my marriage, abusive and devastating as it was. My feelings of helplessness and anger and despair would surface again as if I was living with him at that moment, as trapped and downtrodden as before when I did live with him.

That's PTSD, and it isn't real. It is being triggered and jumping backwards into an emotional state that is disturbing and disruptive and doesn't really exist any more. I think that is where your conversation with your daughter has taken you.

In terms of your conversation with your daughter, I think that it is good that she told you directly what your X told her, and then actually listened to what you said really happened, and then, even though she discounted it, felt very drawn to you and showed it with her affection.

Some place deep inside her she is sorting through what she's been told by her father, and starting to release herself from being captured within his structure of lies. That is positive. That is good. Even a small step in that direction starts to free her to respond positively to you, which she is. It doesn't happen all at once, just a step here and a step there. She has been a prisoner of his lies, just as you were a prison of his behavior, and it is a long process to become free.

That is HER process, not yours and it will take as long as it takes. It doesn't have to define your current and future relationship with her; that will be built a bit at a time with each positive interaction you have with her in the daily process of living.

I think you are back into PTSD, and the good news is that you can leave that space. There is progress in your daughter's perception of what really happened between you and your ex husband, and you don't have to catapult back into that dark emotional life to appreciate it.

Do whatever it takes to gently move yourself out of the past, and re-anchor yourself in the present. A cup of tea, a special bouquet of flowers, whatever you need to do to celebrate your escape and your recovery. It is now, you are free, and you are healthier and healthier each day you are on your own, living your own life, free to seek and celebrate joy.

As for your XAH, he does sound like a psychopath to me. He has no conscience, lies whenever he wants just to get what he wants, and seems to enjoy hurting people. You don't have to minimize his unconscionable behavior.

And, you don't have to ever convince your daughter of what happened. You do get to bear witness to the truth of what happened to you, and then let it go. That is the privilege and honor of being free again.

The steadfastness of telling the truth quietly and with honor has its own halo; something about the stillness and lack of defensiveness of that message has great power that radiates outward. Whether or not your daughter can hear it or see it now doesn't matter.

The truth, when told, has an echo that perserveres.

Telling the truth simply and unequivocally without ranting or excess emotion is its own statement and shines on in a way that lies do not. If your daughter is lucky, she will come to recognize that light. In any event, the truth is not a conversation to be debated or defended; it stands alone for all who want to see it.

The truth is complete in and of itself.

And you are free and healing.

And we all value you and know your story and believe you and, unfortunately, can empathize because we've been there too. We hear you and we believe you and we encourage you to continue to proudly stride along the road to freedom and joy.

ShootingStar1

Praying

Amy, I had a hard time reading your first post. I realized I was sitting here very tense and breathing heavy...I totally understand where you're at...huge, enormous hugs to you. You are very strong, and you are very RIGHT. Stand firm.

I also think you handled it exceptionally well. And I think your daughter is questioning everything and seeking answers. She will find them in herself.

This is one place where I think staying out of it or holding back is wrong. For my boys, when I became truly honest and allowed them to be in the middle, it was hard--and I felt like it was the wrong thing to do--but I couldn't keep up the "find your own truth" charade anymore.

I found out they so desperately NEEDED that from me. They lived it. They saw it. They heard words that sort of soothed and explained it, but something doesn't sit right in their hearts. She needs the truth.

I'd look in her eyes and tell her that--while you promise you'll be truthful and tell her everything you held back if she'd like to hear it--words are words. Her heart will sort out the truth.

But her heart can't sort it out without your information.

She saw and heard things that don't fully match her reality. I think she's seeking to reconcile it. And I think her sweet words to you show that...even though it's a tough path and may elicit more anger toward you temporarily (don't be surprised), it's a good, healing path.

You're on the right track.

More hugs!!!!! Can I be bossy now and ask you to try to treat yourself in some special way today?

Praying

While I was writing, ShootingStar posted. That is an EXCELLENT post...dead on...read it at least twice.

amy55

healthyagain, I am still up, I am still listening, and I really do thank you for your response. It's so hard to find out things afterwards. I felt I was so blind for so long, I didn't see things because I didn't want to. I really do hope for you that because he may have bi-polar that it doesn't make you think you can fix things. I know how hard that is. I will be here for you also.

Shooting Star, you picked right up on that. I went into PTSD and trying to remember and reliving things again, and it was a trigger. A really big trigger. It took me 2 1/2 hours to get home last night. Perhaps I shouldn't have been driving. I just couldn't hear or deal with anymore, and I couldn't stay over. That long drive felt like 1/2 hour. My mind wouldn't stop. The talking in my head wouldn't stop, it wouldn't go away. I've been up really all night. I've been future tripping, and trying to think of what else he told them.

Regardless of what he told them, they still want a relationship with me. I think I'm just going to take that for now. I will never apologize for something that I didn't do.

My daughter did tell me that she would like to spend a night with me, and just get smashed out of our minds and sit and talk about things.

She asked me if I stopped being crazy. I told her I stopped drinking, that I am now looking at myself, so I don't know why she would have said the above. She still feels she has to self medicate to talk to me. I can understand this, I did the same thing.

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my bad, when I got home last night, my ex had sent me an email. It was about the pension division, I had sent him an email about it and he responded. He wanted to know if I had a contact person that he could follow up with. I gave him the info, then added in, that I didn't know I threw myself down the stairs, that I had no comment about that, but that I was there. Probably wrong of me to do that, but I don't know, not in my right mind right now. Didn't curse at him, I just let him know that I heard his lie.

--------------------

Still not in right mind. Don't know what I am doing. Don't know what else he told them to justify his abuse, especially since I tried so hard to hide it, it's why I practically lived in my car in the garage. I did look crazy.

--------------

I still can't say right now that I hate him. I don't care enough about him to have any feelings towards him. Perhaps tomorrow I will hate him for this. Don't know. I should, but I am more concerned about the damage that he created.

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On a good note here, my 2 daughters and 2 grandsons are coming to visit me July 17 -19, and we are going to the amusement park.

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just wish I can stop thinking today, and take a nap.

((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))
amy

thanks for being here for me.

amy55

Praying,

I don't really know what to do. My kids, the 2 younger ones were always telling me to leave him when they were growing up. I don't know what he said to them to where he sort of brainwashed them against me.

I need to wait till they bring something up, and then tell them, no that's wrong, that's not what happened. He did a good job on them. For the past 5 years they were telling me to stop being a victim and a martyr. I didn't know what they were talking about, now I do.

After all of the abuse that they saw and heard, he had convinced them that I was the crazy, viscous, abusive person. Those are the words my daughter used, I'm sure she got them from him, just like when she said that he said "he wasn't an angel either". He used those same words to my older daughter in 2006 after he punched me in the head.

I don't know if this makes sense, but I do remember phrases, and words. If I hear the same thing twice, I know the source.

---------------

My ex is not a wordy person. He only talks about the weather and sports. For him to tell 2 of my children the same thing, "he wasn't an angel either", I know it was made up bullsh!t for manipulation purposes. or he already re wrote history in his own head and actually believes this. BPD does that, I just never thought they could re write something where they didn't actually do the deed, and had you causing your own injury.

-----------------

I'm so tired, didn't sleep last night. Just know I will never admit something I did, if I never did that.

(((((((((((hugs))))))))))
amy

Thanks for listening to my rambling. Still don't hate him, I guess still numb

amy55

Hope no one minds me rambling on and on today. I remember when this daughter was 4. We went to the poconos, just us. Second day there, she said, mom, I really love you, you are so nice, why aren't you like that when dad is around?

Truth is, I didn't realize it then, I was losing me, and hating him, hated to be around him, he was making me sick.

Really sorry to be posting so much today

amy

searching peace

Amy,
I would think twice before you say things to your XAH about what he has told the kids. This might come back to bite you. If he asks your daughter why she told you, etc. She may not trust you with anymore information. My son tells me things his father says and when I go back and blast my ex or mention it in email as you did. My ex gets angry with my son and then comes up with new excuses to offset my truth. My son then gets angrier with me for breaking his trust. When my son tells me things now that my ex says, I discuss them with my son very calmly and reason them out with him and explain how that couldn't be possible. And I do not say anything to my ex. My son now feels safe to tell me what his father says and does. It is healthier for my son to be able to discuss his fathers craziness with me in a safe environment where he knows I won't betray his trust.