Praying

I know a lot of As who also smoke, etc. or use some form of nicotine. The AA meetings around me have a lot of smokers. I read something today that linked nicotine and alcohol and said there's a very high co-morbidity-- that is, someone prone to addiction to one is much more likely to relapse to the other if they've had issues with it before.

My A has been on nicotine gum for several years. and has been "about to quit" forever. I knew this when I met him, and was fine with it. Now that I'm aware of his alcoholism I see it as just another "place" he puts his addiction. He stopped drinking several weeks ago and is going through the gum at twice the pace.

I'm not judging, I get it, he's white-knuckling right now... I was just curious what others have seen. Can you get sober and still have an addiction to nicotine? I've always thought of nicotine as "lesser" than other drugs, but if it was marijuana I'd think otherwise. Is nicotine truly different?

This is more just from curiosity than anything else. My personal view has been that reliance on outside chemicals of any sort to "get by" is a dangerous game for an alcoholic. Maybe that's too strong of a position.

Fluffer

I would say that nicotine addiction is a pretty bad thing in itself, but there are many alcoholics who manage to quit drinking while still smoking. Hopefully they then address nicotine down the road. I personally stopped smoking long before I stopped drinking. While both addictions can kill you, I think alcoholism is much more personally destructive than nicotine addiction, so it's understandable you would let the smoking slide for a while while dealing with quitting the booze.

jjj111

Praying, are you trying to figure out at what point/whether he should start working on his smoking addiction? How his smoking fits into his alcoholism? Is this distracting you from anything on your side of the street that you can control?

happybeingme

I still smoke and haven't had a drink in four years. Continuing to smoke has had no effect on whether or not I want to drink. I don't want one and haven't in years.

LemonGirl

I had quit smoking for a few years.... but I did still enjoy a few smokes whenever I was drinking. Having hung out with my xabf with one too many nights of drinking, I found that my smoking addiction came back full force. I gave up drinking but continued to smoke; I couldn't battle both at the same time. I actually had a friend say "isn't smoking worse??? Shouldn't you give up the smoking first?" She doesn't understand addiction, of course.

I eventually gave up smoking as well. My whole attitude on how I treat my body has changed. I also lift weights, do HIIT training, drink 4 liters of water a day, and eat mostly only whole foods. Anyway, my point is, just because someone quits drinking does by no mean he/she is ready to really treat their bodies well.

On a side note, it is my experience that alcoholics will turn to sugar (and caffeine).

One thing at a time; one day at a time; everyone has their own pace; everyone is entitled to their own journey.

Iconoclastic

Praying shares and asks >>>Can you get sober and still have an addiction to nicotine?<<<

Absolutely no!! Those that claim to be sober, but are still addicted to nicotine are abstinent (from alcohol), but are not sober due to participating in self-destructive behavior. If they had a non-substance addiction like gambling, they wouldn't be sober. Alcohol abstinence while still participating in other addictions isn't sobriety. As David Stewart, MD says from his book "thirst from freedom", “Few people realize that sobriety is an action of insights and skills far beyond mere abstinence. Sobriety is a creative discipline in the art of freedom of growth and of love. To be yourself is to become yourself.”

Praying shares and asks >>>I've always thought of nicotine as "lesser" than other drugs, but if it was marijuana I'd think otherwise. Is nicotine truly different?<<<

Smoking tobacco is the #1 killer on Earth, alcohol is #2 and tobacco addiction has approximately twice the death rate as alcohol. However, re: marijuana not everyone that uses marijuana is addicted, my brother occasionally uses marijuana, has been for 40 years and isn't addicted. He also occasionally drinks alcoholic beverages and isn't addicted.

Praying shares >>>This is more just from curiosity than anything else. My personal view has been that reliance on outside chemicals of any sort to "get by" is a dangerous game for an alcoholic. Maybe that's too strong of a position.<<<

"Reliance" in the context of addiction by my definition means dependency which are words or wording for addiction, therefore, if you view it this way, we agree!

honeypig

When AH and I got together 21 years ago, we both smoked. Shortly after we got married, he came to me and said "hey, our friends B&J are quitting smoking--let's us quit too!" I said sure, sounds good, and proceeded to quit, going the whole carrot-sticks-apples-and-gum route. He went thru all the same motions and so far as I knew, he had quit too, since he never smoked around me and never said anything to the contrary.

Several years later, I found a cigarette butt in the house. I was mystified as to where it came from. He steadfastly denied it for a couple of days, then broke down and admitted it was his. He "quit" again. A few more years go by and a similar incident occurs. This time he admits right away, yes, it's his, and he never actually quit. However, NOW he is REALLY going to quit...

This scenario plays out every few years, and the "quitting" gets more elaborate each time, working up thru nicotine gum to patches and wellbutrin. I am at a loss as to why this is happening--I've told him that if he wants to smoke, then just SMOKE, for god's sake! This charade of "quitting", lying about it, and then getting caught again is ridiculous!

He finally got sober almost 2 years ago (so far as I know) but continued to smoke. This past March he had shoulder surgery and claims to have quit smoking since then (again, so far as I know).

To address your post, I do think in his case there is a direct link between the drinking and smoking, since in both cases they were carefully hidden, and I mean OBSESSIVELY carefully hidden. They were financed w/money from our savings over all the years of our marriage, w/him keeping the books and manipulating entries so I'd never question it. And as I've learned more about the details, both certainly appear to have been "F you" activities directed at me, since I allegedly "thought I was so smart" and by him doing these things under my nose, it proved I wasn't.

Since I've been at SR, I've only come across one other person who had a similar situation regarding their A and smoking, so I think it might not be all that common.

Not sure if that's what you were looking for...?

NYCDoglvr

I'm addicted to both alcohol and nicotine but, one day at a time, haven't had a drink in 23 years, stopped smoking 20 years ago. That said, I don't consider smoking relevant to alcoholism ... I've had an occasional cigarette over the years and it never occurred to me to have a drink too. I know plenty of recovering alcoholics who never smoked and some who still smoke regularly, even though they've been sober for a while.

LexieCat

I'm sorry, but alcohol addiction and nicotine addiction cannot be equated. I consider myself FULLY sober, and I still use nicotine (in the form of "vaping," which reduces the health risk to almost none). Caffeine has similar effects, and I drink coffee, too. I get cranky without either one, but it doesn't begin to compare to the effects alcohol had on me. I am fully present, I don't neglect important things in my life, I don't do anything embarrassing or dangerous because of my nicotine addiction. The mild health risks attributable to nicotine I'm willing to take. It doesn't harm others. It doesn't make me want to drink. And I know plenty of solidly sober people who still smoke, too, and I wish they would try vaping instead, or quitting, but I'm not about to claim they aren't sober just because they still smoke.

CarryThatWeight

I agree with Lexiecat. My husband has been sober for 22 years. He quit smoking about four years ago and is still on nicotine lozenges. If you look up some research studies, you'll find that researchers really can't prove that nicotine by itself is harmful. Tobacco is, which is why vaping is better, because there's no smoke. I've heard it's the chemicals in cigarettes that cause cancer. Regardless, we are powerless over another person's choices. I wish my husband would get off the nicotine, but what can I do about it? It doesn't seem to make him want to drink, and in the grand scheme of life, it seems a really small thing to spend energy worrying about. I'd have a much harder time if he was smoking, because I don't like the smell and I'm an oncology nurse!

Iconoclastic

In the context of addiction, equate means to regard, treat, or represent as equivalent, which is different than being than same or identical. Alcohol used in moderation is a vasodilator. Smoking tobacco causes vasoconstriction, as does a transdermal application, there’s a difference, but both alcohol and nicotine are addictive substances. Smoking is how the vast majority deliver nicotine to their brain. These drugs have many equivalents, due to many alcoholics being poly-addicted. I’ve known 100’s of junkies (heroin addicts) that commonly use alcohol along with tobacco.

Here’s a small preview of the science.

Heroin is an alkaloid as is nicotine and both are highly addictive for those that are psychologically prone to addiction. The difference between a heroin and / or a nicotine addict and pain management patients that can be weaned off pain medication is that heroin and nicotine addicts are psychologically addicted. The same holds true with alcoholics that are abstinent, but still have the desire to drink, they are psychologically addicted, therefore they’re only abstinent, and not sober.

Studies have shown that depression and tobacco smoking use often go hand in hand, and this includes those that are addicted to nicotine products e.g. gum. People with depression are not only more likely to smoke, but may also find it harder to quit smoking or quite other nicotine delivery systems than those who are not depressed. Also, alcoholism and depression are often inextricably linked, though the dynamics may vary due to depression being on a wide spectrum. Many alcoholics in recovery are often surprised to find that they have been using alcohol to treat a condition they may not have even known they had. After becoming abstinent from alcohol many alcoholics continue their smoking tobacco or use other methods to deliver nicotine to their brain.

Addiction is addiction, including non-substance addictive behavior, e.g. gambling and all are symptoms of psychological problems. If one is abstinent from alcohol, but still addicted to other activities, they’re in denial and coving-up psychological issues.

LexieCat

I'm not in denial, I absolutely admit that I'm addicted to nicotine. It isn't a problem for me. I do several things that most people would consider unhealthy, including eating junk food. I'm OK with that. Personally, I question the psychological health of those who feel the need to take other people's inventories. Just since you brought it up.

FeelingGreat

I'm a sober A, and I replaced alcohol with sugar. Now I'm going through the same process as I used for alcohol to try and give up sugar (not completely, just things that are high sugar), and it's so hard. It seems much harder than getting sober, but that's in retrospect, so I might be softening my recollection. I think I need to get to the point where I'm convinced sugar is as bad for me as drinking.

My late father always smoked when he drank beer, and Mum said that when he gave up smoking, he no longer had the taste for beer.

Point of these ramblings? I have a theory that a certain type of A gets comfort from eating/drinking things they like, and that can contribute to developing an addiction to alcohol.

BlueChair

This is a good post Praying. Ive had this discussion with friends actually. I think if one believes in the concept of total abstinence being equal to sobriety and dedication to recovery then being addicted to nicotine/tobacco is not true sobriety. Most people I know who are truly addicted to "anything" have a physical and emotional attachment going on. They use it to self soothe something within themselves, its a form of escape.

CodeJob

I stay out of HOW my RAH manages to stay sober. That's his recovery.

I don't comment when he devours a sweet in the evening or how we should buy stock in the sparkling water companies and Celestial Seasonings...

I also stay out of his nicotine habit. He was a smoker when we met. What else can I expect? Of course I expected him to quit because it was the healthy thing to do! But smoking became just another well trodden trail of my codependent thought patterns.

sauerkraut

Thank you so much for starting this thread, Praying. I've been wondering the same thing. My AH who is sort of/maybe trying to quit drinking has lately taken up smoking (and hiding it). I mean no disrespect to anyone who smokes, but speaking for myself, I would not have married a smoker, and he knows that. When we were dating I saw him smoking one time, and when I asked him about it, he said that very occasionally when he had been drinking he would have a cigarette. Now (20 years later), when I ask him about the cigarette packs in his car and the odor on his hands, he says, well, you knew I smoked when we met, right? Ugh.

In any case, I really appreciate the insights on co-addictions and recovery. Thanks.

auroraxborealis

My dad quit drinking before I was born, but not pot. He smoked cigarettes until I was about 7-8 (don't exactly remember) and switched to cigars.

He quit smoking everything when he developed blood pressure/kidney problems. He recently picked up cigars again, and I suspect pot is just aroud the corner...

My X's dad no longer smokes crack or uses street drugs, but smokes cigarettes like a chimney and will drink on occasion. After probation, he's looking forward t lighting up a joint. He says that alcohol and pot weren'd his drugs of choice, so it's never been a problem.

KissMyTiara

I attempted to quit alcohol and cigarettes and the same time in 2006. I still am trying to quit the alcohol. But have been nicotine free for over 9 years. I find alcohol SO much harder.

AnvilheadII

I smoke cigarettes, and I know without a doubt I do not do so to "cover up psychological issues". it's just a bad damn habit....it does not prevent me from going to work, it's never incited me to steal or rob from others, I've never missed a mortgage payment, I don't hide the empties, never woke up in the wrong bed, and I've never stayed up three days smoking NICOTINE.

now often drinking and smoking go hand in hand. and for that reason I think it is harder to quit smoking while still drinking, than the other way around. when I sobered up in '87 I didn't worry about smoking at the time.....later at about year 3(?) I did quit, and then even quit drinking caffeine. by CHOICE. but I remember in the very early days of sobering up I clung to cigarettes and coffee - it was like, please leave a vice or two for now? it took everything I had to NOT drink....and that was the prime objective. all else comes in its own time.........

NoelleR

I'm so glad I got sober when I did, where I did, and with whom did, and I only have to be sober according to my own definition, and AA's of course............freedom from alcohol.........

(o:
NoelleR