Communication Basics
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: fl
Posts: 63
Communication Basics
Hi everybody,
I'm wondering if anyone has a link to a site or a book recommendation, or even a diagram which depicts the basics of communication, specific to an intimate relationship.
I hesitate to even explain the situation bc certain people on this site like to chastise people like me for choosing to still try in these situations. So please back off with the "you need to just leave" or the "what's wrong with you that you're still with him" talk.
The bf doesn't understand how to communicate. I say my piece, ask for changes, and the discussion stops there. He doesn't know how to respond: how to also assert his expectations or give feedback about my statements, etc... I just need a very basic description of how a discussion is supposed to go.
I cruised around the stickies, but this old iphone4 im using doesn't navigate well and I'm having a hard time. So I apologize if there's an obvious resource just a click away.
Any kind-hearted help is greatly appreciated. Going to my first alanon meeting tonight. Very scared and already crying just thinking about it. But I'm hopeful for the help I will get.
Thank you
-Waggin
I'm wondering if anyone has a link to a site or a book recommendation, or even a diagram which depicts the basics of communication, specific to an intimate relationship.
I hesitate to even explain the situation bc certain people on this site like to chastise people like me for choosing to still try in these situations. So please back off with the "you need to just leave" or the "what's wrong with you that you're still with him" talk.
The bf doesn't understand how to communicate. I say my piece, ask for changes, and the discussion stops there. He doesn't know how to respond: how to also assert his expectations or give feedback about my statements, etc... I just need a very basic description of how a discussion is supposed to go.
I cruised around the stickies, but this old iphone4 im using doesn't navigate well and I'm having a hard time. So I apologize if there's an obvious resource just a click away.
Any kind-hearted help is greatly appreciated. Going to my first alanon meeting tonight. Very scared and already crying just thinking about it. But I'm hopeful for the help I will get.
Thank you
-Waggin
Stoic
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wash D.C.
Posts: 321
I find it ironic that you would start a thread asking about how to find information about communicating with your partner...by essentially telling us that you only want to hear certain things, and won't listen to people's opinions if they aren't what you want to hear.
Start there, maybe?
Start there, maybe?
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
He doesn't know how to respond: how to also assert his expectations or give feedback about my statements, etc
doesn't know HOW or just doesn't care to engage? you can find many books and suggestions on how YOUR side of the communication would go - using I statements (when you do X, i feel Y and therefore i would like to try Z as a solution) - but you cannot solve HIS side of the equation.
sometimes it's like trying to teach a pig to sing. frustrating for everyone.
i suppose you could try something like - i would like to talk WITH you about <<insert issue here>> and i would like to hear your thoughts.
i guess a lot of it depends on your motives too - do you truly want to DISCUSS a matter, or do you just want to tell him/correct him on some behavior or slight. and are you willing to work to a compromise that does NOT assure you get your way 100% ??
doesn't know HOW or just doesn't care to engage? you can find many books and suggestions on how YOUR side of the communication would go - using I statements (when you do X, i feel Y and therefore i would like to try Z as a solution) - but you cannot solve HIS side of the equation.
sometimes it's like trying to teach a pig to sing. frustrating for everyone.
i suppose you could try something like - i would like to talk WITH you about <<insert issue here>> and i would like to hear your thoughts.
i guess a lot of it depends on your motives too - do you truly want to DISCUSS a matter, or do you just want to tell him/correct him on some behavior or slight. and are you willing to work to a compromise that does NOT assure you get your way 100% ??
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: fl
Posts: 63
To Resigned:
If you review the tone of the words said to me for my first couple of posts maybe you'd get a better grasp of what I'm referring to. I even received a few PMs apologizing for it and i haven't posted for help since then.
But thanks anyways.
If you review the tone of the words said to me for my first couple of posts maybe you'd get a better grasp of what I'm referring to. I even received a few PMs apologizing for it and i haven't posted for help since then.
But thanks anyways.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
Have you thought about a counselor? Is your partner on board? Communication is a two way street (obviously, lol) so both partners need to be invested in doing the work to see any results. I think al-anon is a great idea.
You will not like to hear this but I will share it anyway - as my experience. It has nothing to do with leaving or staying but with communication. We had a counselor that told us that communication was a big problem for us (understatement) and while it can cause huge problems it is one of the easiest things to fix (compared to things like cheating etc.) if both people were committed to it. Here is the 'but' - she would not work with us until my husband was working a program of recovery. Until that time he would always follow the voice of addiction first - and that voice leads him in the opposite direction. He didn't find that program so I saw the counselor by myself.
To fill out the story - he did eventually get into recovery and he is sober today. That was after our divorce so we never did do the counseling.
You will not like to hear this but I will share it anyway - as my experience. It has nothing to do with leaving or staying but with communication. We had a counselor that told us that communication was a big problem for us (understatement) and while it can cause huge problems it is one of the easiest things to fix (compared to things like cheating etc.) if both people were committed to it. Here is the 'but' - she would not work with us until my husband was working a program of recovery. Until that time he would always follow the voice of addiction first - and that voice leads him in the opposite direction. He didn't find that program so I saw the counselor by myself.
To fill out the story - he did eventually get into recovery and he is sober today. That was after our divorce so we never did do the counseling.
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: fl
Posts: 63
Thank you Thumper! 
I'm with you on the program of recovery.
I am thinking I would like to see a counselor with him. He's up for it so it is in the works. I would love it if the counselor said the same in our case. Then he can choose to get with it or not. If not, I'm out.
I'm with you on the program of recovery.
I am thinking I would like to see a counselor with him. He's up for it so it is in the works. I would love it if the counselor said the same in our case. Then he can choose to get with it or not. If not, I'm out.
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: East Coast
Posts: 865
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII 
[I]
i guess a lot of it depends on your motives too - do you truly want to DISCUSS a matter, or do you just want to tell him/correct him on some behavior or slight. and are you willing to work to a compromise that does NOT assure you get your way 100% ??
i guess a lot of it depends on your motives too - do you truly want to DISCUSS a matter, or do you just want to tell him/correct him on some behavior or slight. and are you willing to work to a compromise that does NOT assure you get your way 100% ??
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Originally Posted by waggin
Thank you Hugs mean so much
I know I'm going to be a mess there tonight but oh we'll right?
Hugs mean so much I know I'm going to be a mess there tonight but oh we'll right?
You can do this
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Aaaaand my "thank" button is back.
Weird!
Active listening, yes this is what I'm thinking. Thank you so much!!
And anvil, you're right, I will look more closely at my motives. I'm sure my need to just tell him to do this or be that has mucked things up as well. I really do want him to share though bc I just so often am grasping for an understanding of what's going on inside of him. He really doesn't know how to share. Since a child has suffered from crippling anxiety. But he was coddled and accommodations were made instead of teaching him how to come out of it. So, I believe, his communication skills are almost non-existent as a result. And, of course, then he started drinking to avoid, relax, etc...
He has really cut back on his alcohol intake and this is why I'm still giving it a try. He has a huge uphill battle in front of him and he has actually made ground. But I still have laid a ton of save between us for my sanity's sake and the idea of ending it is easier and easier to accept.
Weird!
Active listening, yes this is what I'm thinking. Thank you so much!!
And anvil, you're right, I will look more closely at my motives. I'm sure my need to just tell him to do this or be that has mucked things up as well. I really do want him to share though bc I just so often am grasping for an understanding of what's going on inside of him. He really doesn't know how to share. Since a child has suffered from crippling anxiety. But he was coddled and accommodations were made instead of teaching him how to come out of it. So, I believe, his communication skills are almost non-existent as a result. And, of course, then he started drinking to avoid, relax, etc...
He has really cut back on his alcohol intake and this is why I'm still giving it a try. He has a huge uphill battle in front of him and he has actually made ground. But I still have laid a ton of save between us for my sanity's sake and the idea of ending it is easier and easier to accept.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Something like this?
Effective Communication: Improving Communication Skills in Your Interpersonal Relationships
I do agree that this is wasted effort on an active drinker (or active Codie for that matter); but that a person with some recovery time would be more receptive. (no clue whether he is in recovery or not)
Ineffective communication is alcoholism's ally, a person active in their addiction is going to feel threatened with these kinds of changes. Good luck!
Effective Communication: Improving Communication Skills in Your Interpersonal Relationships
I do agree that this is wasted effort on an active drinker (or active Codie for that matter); but that a person with some recovery time would be more receptive. (no clue whether he is in recovery or not)
Ineffective communication is alcoholism's ally, a person active in their addiction is going to feel threatened with these kinds of changes. Good luck!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
I really do want him to share though bc I just so often am grasping for an understanding of what's going on inside of him. He really doesn't know how to share. Since a child has suffered from crippling anxiety. But he was coddled and accommodations were made instead of teaching him how to come out of it. So, I believe, his communication skills are almost non-existent as a result. And, of course, then he started drinking to avoid, relax, etc...
Better left up to the experts, if that is what THEY chose for themselves.
I gained far more out of diagnosing myself and fixing me.
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
doesn't know HOW or just doesn't care to engage? you can find many books and suggestions on how YOUR side of the communication would go - using I statements (when you do X, i feel Y and therefore i would like to try Z as a solution) - but you cannot solve HIS side of the equation.
sometimes it's like trying to teach a pig to sing. frustrating for everyone.
sometimes it's like trying to teach a pig to sing. frustrating for everyone.
Like Anvil said, you might be trying to teach a pig to sing. While it flies!
Ultimately, I found that if someone was incapable of hearing me, I needed to talk to other people. I also learned that finding closure on issues of personal importance is something I usually have to provide for myself, and it isn't something one can really get from others, especially not from people who are emotionally disregulated.
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: fl
Posts: 63
I apologize for my repetitious nature regarding the abf. In my third post on SR, I felt people came down on me personally for not just "getting it" and leaving. I read a lot of others' posts here on SR which reveal a similar yo-yo-ing. In response this effect and a response to the "wise ones" frustrations, Bird13 wrote probably the most righteous post ever in Friends and Family. I'd like to share it here:
I think everyone who see's their partner a mess and comes here knows that things will not magically turn around. We know we have to just walk away. We already know all of this, and we beat ourselves up b/c we just can't seem to do it! I think she gets how it is "going to be."= progressive disease. I am really sorry if this post upsets anyone in this thread. I am sincere in what I am about to share.
Although we have collective experience in this disease and see how a majority of things turn out statistically, we cannot make hypothesized guesses about someone else's recovery and whether they will or won't get sober. An addict can manipulate today, and tomorrow hit rock bottom and start recovery. We are not the Higher Power in control and we cannot forecast when someone's rock bottom is coming based on how they are acting today. The only thing we can hang our hats on at the end of the day (and it is not "likely" it is a fact) is that it will get worse and death will come.
My therapist who has studied alcoholism for 40+ years corrects me when I tell her how "likely things are" to end a certain way. It is tempting to think I really can tell how it will turn out based on all the things this disease flings in your face everyday (manipulation, emotional abuse, etc.). But when she says this to me, I cannot argue there b/c she has a point. And 40+ years of experience. lol.
1. If all of this was so easy to do, we all wouldn't be here right now.. still visiting this forum. I think it is safe to say that whether we are still with the alcoholic or left, having even been through this experience we all share 1 thing- the knowledge of how difficult this can be to detach from the drinker and their alcoholism. We all have that in common. We also know it does not happen over night. (It didn't for me.) If it has for anyone here, I applaud you and then in that case you probably don't need to come here and post b/c you licked it and moved forward pronto!
2. Not being pregnant, this is a very difficult thing to do.. Pregnancy? Hormones? Adding that to where she is at is very difficult. I know. I was there. I won't go into detail but being the partner and having to play commando over your brain in situations where you love someone who is putting on the guilt and then killing themselves is hard enough. Now add that you are a woman and have pregnancy hormones raging through you and that is enough to make you crack and go back to that person hoping for anything. give her a break.
3. We come here, and attend Al-anon for the very reason that others, like ourselves know the "pain of living with Alcoholism" and can understand why we are where we are. We come here so that we have a safe place to 'be'. To be stuck when we know we should just dump them and move on. To be sad when we wish we could just say, "F this no more!" To be human and say, " I know I left him but I still miss the Sh*t out of that drunk bum and why can't I just forget him." We come here to be human. We know where we "should be," but sitting there beating ourselves up over where we should be, is not getting us there TODAY. Accepting where we are in our detachment, whether it is a lot or none at all, is the first step in actually furthering our recovery. Acceptance.
We all have probably made the mistake in the beginning of going to those who don't get this disease, and they ask these very same questions to the point where we feel badgered, "why do you love this person?" "what are you doing" "who would do that". How many of those friends helped you cut the alcoholic loose the first time? How many of those friends did you cut off asap when you were addicted to the alcoholic? That is why al anon helps. We can start recovery, and not have to leave the alcoholic today. Leaving or staying is our choice and both are okay if that is what we can handle for today, and working a program meanwhile allows us to trust that changes are taking place.
"What is it exactly that you love about this person?" "What is there to love?"
We know this disease has its own ugly personality, and understand it is possible to actually love someone but not their disease!! Love the person not the action. When someone else is in the same spot as we were, it is not our job to decide whether or not their love for that person is warranted, or whether there is real love to be had there...it is to offer support that we have been there too and understand the concept of 'loving someone but not their disease' and how that leads to being stuck with someone who behaves like a bum or a jerk or a liar.
Sometimes our bitterness at our own alcoholic experiences causes us to lose sensitivity to others and just deliver the news, we've all been there I think. Or the frustration we feel watching someone torture themselves like this causes us to shame them..."what are you thinking?" None of these things help a partner leave. Especially shaming, which is why we find it safe to come here and to al-anon, where others are understanding due to the fact that they made many of those same mistakes.
The real issue I am getting at here is that this is not about "WHY" is this person going back. We know why-- we did it!! But about what can be done to ultimately lead her to leave. Getting into Al-Anon, getting with an addiction's specialist, working on recovery and not focusing on why it is not happening right NOW but what she can do so that it will eventually happen. I was not able to just jump into that state of mind the 1st time, I was really hurting inside, confused, and a mess. (I needed a program to work on myself while I broke up and went back, believed it all, got dooped again, and then realized all the work I had done in alanon & in therapy was starting to help me understand the disease and distance myself from it. ) It takes a long time to get into this hole with the alcoholic and it takes a long time to get out! I'll say it right now, I broke up with ex abf and I just made a post about how I miss him terribly!! I WISH HE WOULD STOP DRINKING RIGHT NOW! LOL. I still think about him all the time! Why am I contradicting myself if I chose to leave him? Well, I guess I am human...and this was hard! and I belong in Al-anon. I accept where I am today, and wow I don't remember when & where something changed exactly, I guess it just has been changing.. and I am recovering....
Waggin, you are a smart woman. You know it isn't going to be the life you want if he does not get sober. But you are hoping he will get sober. Maybe he will. Maybe he won't. We cannot guess based on what he is doing. Maybe tomorrow he will have a drastic accident and hit bottom, or just have no bottom and keep on. But meanwhile, his disease will ravage your health and mental stability over time if you don't have a recovery program to give you strength. You have to find peace within yourself whether he is drinking or not, and recovery from being so attached to his alcoholism. This is where Al anon helps.
If for today you want to be with him, then do what you can for today don't feel discouraged about that.. You made a big step coming here for help. Are you going to start attending al anon meetings or have you? Maybe you can get a sponsor there to call when you are feeling weak and down? Also an addiction's therapist if you can(I know they are costly.) Going to the meetings and letting the program "wash on over you" as they say will really help keep your stress levels down so you and the little one can be well! That is most important right now, your health and the pregnancy and if you keep at it you will eventually have the strength to do what you need to do.
From Al-Anon's Courage to Change:
"We are often reminded to keep coming back. Today I will remember that this not only applies to meetings, but to learning the new attitudes and behavior that are the long term benefits of Al Anon recovery. I may not see the results today, but I can trust that I am making progress."
A stonecutter may strike a rock ninety-nine times with no apparent effect, not even a crack on the surface. Yet with the hundredth blow, the rock splits in two. It was not the final blow that did the trick, but all that had gone before.
The same is true of Al-Anon recovery. Perhaps I am working on accepting that alcoholism is a disease, or learning to detach, or struggling with self-pity. I may pursue a goal for months without obvious results and become convinced that I am wasting my time. But if I continue going to meetings, sharing about my struggle, taking it one day at a time, and being patient with myself, I may awaken to find that I have changed, seemingly overnight. Suddenly, I have the acceptance, detachment, or serenity I have been seeking. The results may have revealed themselves abruptly, but I know that all those months of faith and hard work made the changes possible.
I think everyone who see's their partner a mess and comes here knows that things will not magically turn around. We know we have to just walk away. We already know all of this, and we beat ourselves up b/c we just can't seem to do it! I think she gets how it is "going to be."= progressive disease. I am really sorry if this post upsets anyone in this thread. I am sincere in what I am about to share.
Although we have collective experience in this disease and see how a majority of things turn out statistically, we cannot make hypothesized guesses about someone else's recovery and whether they will or won't get sober. An addict can manipulate today, and tomorrow hit rock bottom and start recovery. We are not the Higher Power in control and we cannot forecast when someone's rock bottom is coming based on how they are acting today. The only thing we can hang our hats on at the end of the day (and it is not "likely" it is a fact) is that it will get worse and death will come.
My therapist who has studied alcoholism for 40+ years corrects me when I tell her how "likely things are" to end a certain way. It is tempting to think I really can tell how it will turn out based on all the things this disease flings in your face everyday (manipulation, emotional abuse, etc.). But when she says this to me, I cannot argue there b/c she has a point. And 40+ years of experience. lol.
1. If all of this was so easy to do, we all wouldn't be here right now.. still visiting this forum. I think it is safe to say that whether we are still with the alcoholic or left, having even been through this experience we all share 1 thing- the knowledge of how difficult this can be to detach from the drinker and their alcoholism. We all have that in common. We also know it does not happen over night. (It didn't for me.) If it has for anyone here, I applaud you and then in that case you probably don't need to come here and post b/c you licked it and moved forward pronto!
2. Not being pregnant, this is a very difficult thing to do.. Pregnancy? Hormones? Adding that to where she is at is very difficult. I know. I was there. I won't go into detail but being the partner and having to play commando over your brain in situations where you love someone who is putting on the guilt and then killing themselves is hard enough. Now add that you are a woman and have pregnancy hormones raging through you and that is enough to make you crack and go back to that person hoping for anything. give her a break.
3. We come here, and attend Al-anon for the very reason that others, like ourselves know the "pain of living with Alcoholism" and can understand why we are where we are. We come here so that we have a safe place to 'be'. To be stuck when we know we should just dump them and move on. To be sad when we wish we could just say, "F this no more!" To be human and say, " I know I left him but I still miss the Sh*t out of that drunk bum and why can't I just forget him." We come here to be human. We know where we "should be," but sitting there beating ourselves up over where we should be, is not getting us there TODAY. Accepting where we are in our detachment, whether it is a lot or none at all, is the first step in actually furthering our recovery. Acceptance.
We all have probably made the mistake in the beginning of going to those who don't get this disease, and they ask these very same questions to the point where we feel badgered, "why do you love this person?" "what are you doing" "who would do that". How many of those friends helped you cut the alcoholic loose the first time? How many of those friends did you cut off asap when you were addicted to the alcoholic? That is why al anon helps. We can start recovery, and not have to leave the alcoholic today. Leaving or staying is our choice and both are okay if that is what we can handle for today, and working a program meanwhile allows us to trust that changes are taking place.
"What is it exactly that you love about this person?" "What is there to love?"
We know this disease has its own ugly personality, and understand it is possible to actually love someone but not their disease!! Love the person not the action. When someone else is in the same spot as we were, it is not our job to decide whether or not their love for that person is warranted, or whether there is real love to be had there...it is to offer support that we have been there too and understand the concept of 'loving someone but not their disease' and how that leads to being stuck with someone who behaves like a bum or a jerk or a liar.
Sometimes our bitterness at our own alcoholic experiences causes us to lose sensitivity to others and just deliver the news, we've all been there I think. Or the frustration we feel watching someone torture themselves like this causes us to shame them..."what are you thinking?" None of these things help a partner leave. Especially shaming, which is why we find it safe to come here and to al-anon, where others are understanding due to the fact that they made many of those same mistakes.
The real issue I am getting at here is that this is not about "WHY" is this person going back. We know why-- we did it!! But about what can be done to ultimately lead her to leave. Getting into Al-Anon, getting with an addiction's specialist, working on recovery and not focusing on why it is not happening right NOW but what she can do so that it will eventually happen. I was not able to just jump into that state of mind the 1st time, I was really hurting inside, confused, and a mess. (I needed a program to work on myself while I broke up and went back, believed it all, got dooped again, and then realized all the work I had done in alanon & in therapy was starting to help me understand the disease and distance myself from it. ) It takes a long time to get into this hole with the alcoholic and it takes a long time to get out! I'll say it right now, I broke up with ex abf and I just made a post about how I miss him terribly!! I WISH HE WOULD STOP DRINKING RIGHT NOW! LOL. I still think about him all the time! Why am I contradicting myself if I chose to leave him? Well, I guess I am human...and this was hard! and I belong in Al-anon. I accept where I am today, and wow I don't remember when & where something changed exactly, I guess it just has been changing.. and I am recovering....
Waggin, you are a smart woman. You know it isn't going to be the life you want if he does not get sober. But you are hoping he will get sober. Maybe he will. Maybe he won't. We cannot guess based on what he is doing. Maybe tomorrow he will have a drastic accident and hit bottom, or just have no bottom and keep on. But meanwhile, his disease will ravage your health and mental stability over time if you don't have a recovery program to give you strength. You have to find peace within yourself whether he is drinking or not, and recovery from being so attached to his alcoholism. This is where Al anon helps.
If for today you want to be with him, then do what you can for today don't feel discouraged about that.. You made a big step coming here for help. Are you going to start attending al anon meetings or have you? Maybe you can get a sponsor there to call when you are feeling weak and down? Also an addiction's therapist if you can(I know they are costly.) Going to the meetings and letting the program "wash on over you" as they say will really help keep your stress levels down so you and the little one can be well! That is most important right now, your health and the pregnancy and if you keep at it you will eventually have the strength to do what you need to do.
From Al-Anon's Courage to Change:
"We are often reminded to keep coming back. Today I will remember that this not only applies to meetings, but to learning the new attitudes and behavior that are the long term benefits of Al Anon recovery. I may not see the results today, but I can trust that I am making progress."
A stonecutter may strike a rock ninety-nine times with no apparent effect, not even a crack on the surface. Yet with the hundredth blow, the rock splits in two. It was not the final blow that did the trick, but all that had gone before.
The same is true of Al-Anon recovery. Perhaps I am working on accepting that alcoholism is a disease, or learning to detach, or struggling with self-pity. I may pursue a goal for months without obvious results and become convinced that I am wasting my time. But if I continue going to meetings, sharing about my struggle, taking it one day at a time, and being patient with myself, I may awaken to find that I have changed, seemingly overnight. Suddenly, I have the acceptance, detachment, or serenity I have been seeking. The results may have revealed themselves abruptly, but I know that all those months of faith and hard work made the changes possible.
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