Communication Basics
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Check into Non Violent Communication.
Originally Posted by waggin 
Hi everybody,
I'm wondering if anyone has a link to a site or a book recommendation, or even a diagram which depicts the basics of communication, specific to an intimate relationship.
I hesitate to even explain the situation bc certain people on this site like to chastise people like me for choosing to still try in these situations. So please back off with the "you need to just leave" or the "what's wrong with you that you're still with him" talk.
The bf doesn't understand how to communicate. I say my piece, ask for changes, and the discussion stops there. He doesn't know how to respond: how to also assert his expectations or give feedback about my statements, etc... I just need a very basic description of how a discussion is supposed to go.
I cruised around the stickies, but this old iphone4 im using doesn't navigate well and I'm having a hard time. So I apologize if there's an obvious resource just a click away.
Any kind-hearted help is greatly appreciated. Going to my first alanon meeting tonight. Very scared and already crying just thinking about it. But I'm hopeful for the help I will get.
Thank you
-Waggin
I'm wondering if anyone has a link to a site or a book recommendation, or even a diagram which depicts the basics of communication, specific to an intimate relationship.
I hesitate to even explain the situation bc certain people on this site like to chastise people like me for choosing to still try in these situations. So please back off with the "you need to just leave" or the "what's wrong with you that you're still with him" talk.
The bf doesn't understand how to communicate. I say my piece, ask for changes, and the discussion stops there. He doesn't know how to respond: how to also assert his expectations or give feedback about my statements, etc... I just need a very basic description of how a discussion is supposed to go.
I cruised around the stickies, but this old iphone4 im using doesn't navigate well and I'm having a hard time. So I apologize if there's an obvious resource just a click away.
Any kind-hearted help is greatly appreciated. Going to my first alanon meeting tonight. Very scared and already crying just thinking about it. But I'm hopeful for the help I will get.
Thank you
-Waggin
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Right here, right now!
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Waggin-
I agree with so much previously written.
One of the pieces in my communication that I had to learn was that I could NOT say it perfectly enough so he would understand.
I took a lot of ownership for a long time on "perfect" communication. If I said it just right I could exact change or someone would see it my way.
I got a lesson again last week that I can only work on my side of the street, give it a good ole try in getting it right and be willing to correct/explain as needed.
I don't always pick people who are capable of good communication or self care to try to share with though.....
That is my mistake, not always the how of me saying it.
For me it was with my ex who struggled with alcohol, but it was a bigger problem in my life also. It is a pattern I still continue to struggle with (though it is getting easier).
What a great way to tease apart what of this is yours and what is not.
I agree with so much previously written.
One of the pieces in my communication that I had to learn was that I could NOT say it perfectly enough so he would understand.
I took a lot of ownership for a long time on "perfect" communication. If I said it just right I could exact change or someone would see it my way.
I got a lesson again last week that I can only work on my side of the street, give it a good ole try in getting it right and be willing to correct/explain as needed.
I don't always pick people who are capable of good communication or self care to try to share with though.....
That is my mistake, not always the how of me saying it.
For me it was with my ex who struggled with alcohol, but it was a bigger problem in my life also. It is a pattern I still continue to struggle with (though it is getting easier).
What a great way to tease apart what of this is yours and what is not.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: fl
Posts: 63
Dandy- yes a ton of what she said helped me. I have a really hard time on this loner phone I have. I will outline an answer on my computer and then send it when I get to work where there is wifi tomorrow. Typing on this phone is crossing my eyes and just plain pissing me off ;D
Just got back from my first alanon meeting ever. Overdue, of course. But very kind people. I will be going back.
Just got back from my first alanon meeting ever. Overdue, of course. But very kind people. I will be going back.
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 203
I don't know your situation so I wouldn't presume to tell you to leave.
Are you sure you need a diagram about communication? Your description "I say my piece, ask for changes, and the discussion ends there" seems to be less about communication and more to do with your bf not following your plan of action. Maybe the communication you are searching for has less to do with his lack of a response and more to do with your inability to understand that he may not be able to make the changes you so desperately seek?
Are you sure you need a diagram about communication? Your description "I say my piece, ask for changes, and the discussion ends there" seems to be less about communication and more to do with your bf not following your plan of action. Maybe the communication you are searching for has less to do with his lack of a response and more to do with your inability to understand that he may not be able to make the changes you so desperately seek?
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Join Date: Dec 2014
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Thank you so much Life 
I'm that way too. I say the same thing to him (and others) but three different ways right in a row. It drives him nuts, it drove my last bf nuts. I have to learn to give it a rest bc if he wasn't listening (or hearing) the first time, doubt the 2nd or 3rd time is going to do anything but turn his ears off. My mom does this too, and I turn my ears off after the first take every time. I can tell though that she's trying to find the PERFECT way to say whatever it is she wants to convey. And I have carried on this tradition. It's a compulsive need to be understood. I suck that way.
I'm that way too. I say the same thing to him (and others) but three different ways right in a row. It drives him nuts, it drove my last bf nuts. I have to learn to give it a rest bc if he wasn't listening (or hearing) the first time, doubt the 2nd or 3rd time is going to do anything but turn his ears off. My mom does this too, and I turn my ears off after the first take every time. I can tell though that she's trying to find the PERFECT way to say whatever it is she wants to convey. And I have carried on this tradition. It's a compulsive need to be understood. I suck that way.
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: fl
Posts: 63
Ileana-
Here's an example: yesterday he brought up AGAIN that he wants to live together. I explained that i cant do it bc i dont trust him. He said that hurts and it hurts that i wont move in with him.
A week prior he went on a week long bender and didn't return my calls or messages for that whole time. He just last weekend "came to" and started calling and texting again. So I explained that I can't live with someone who "disappears" like that. And i go further and say that in fact i cant be in a relationship with someone who does that. This is what I mean when I say, "I ask for changes." I'm tearful while I describe how it feels when he disappears like this. I finish with what I'm saying and he says nothing. I say, "so you have no response?" He says he doesn't know what I want him to say. I say I want him say whatever is on the inside. I have no idea what that would be so there's nothing I want him to say. This is where that discussion ends and a new discussion about "what is communication" begins. He repeats that he doesn't know what I want. I say I would like to hear either "tough ****, I'll do it again if I want to." Or "I'm sorry I'll do x, y, z to ensure it doesn't happen again." Or anything in between. Or ask questions or something. Just some response. It's called a discussion. Learn how to have one. He says he's not used to having to discuss anything and that this whole thing is stressing him out. I tell him that if we're going to have a relationship, our communication is going to need an overhaul and he'll have to get used to discussing things. He again says he doesn't understand why I harp on him. I say I wouldn't harp if he would just respond to things I say.
So I start trying to verbalized how communication is supposed to go. Person A says something, person B tries to grasp it by asking questions or paraphrasing back what person A has said. When they understand each other, person B responds with agreement or disagreement. We go from there. He says nobody does that. I say yes they do. He says I'm making this up. I tell him, no, it's a thing people who respect each other do.
This is the bare bones of one example.
I'm exhausted from thinking about it and I'm exhausted from retyping every other word bc this phone is not working properly. Grrr lol
Dandy- typing while referring back to a long message above like the one I quoted is more difficult. So I will do that with my laptop and I'll post it or PM you tomorrow?
Here's an example: yesterday he brought up AGAIN that he wants to live together. I explained that i cant do it bc i dont trust him. He said that hurts and it hurts that i wont move in with him.
A week prior he went on a week long bender and didn't return my calls or messages for that whole time. He just last weekend "came to" and started calling and texting again. So I explained that I can't live with someone who "disappears" like that. And i go further and say that in fact i cant be in a relationship with someone who does that. This is what I mean when I say, "I ask for changes." I'm tearful while I describe how it feels when he disappears like this. I finish with what I'm saying and he says nothing. I say, "so you have no response?" He says he doesn't know what I want him to say. I say I want him say whatever is on the inside. I have no idea what that would be so there's nothing I want him to say. This is where that discussion ends and a new discussion about "what is communication" begins. He repeats that he doesn't know what I want. I say I would like to hear either "tough ****, I'll do it again if I want to." Or "I'm sorry I'll do x, y, z to ensure it doesn't happen again." Or anything in between. Or ask questions or something. Just some response. It's called a discussion. Learn how to have one. He says he's not used to having to discuss anything and that this whole thing is stressing him out. I tell him that if we're going to have a relationship, our communication is going to need an overhaul and he'll have to get used to discussing things. He again says he doesn't understand why I harp on him. I say I wouldn't harp if he would just respond to things I say.
So I start trying to verbalized how communication is supposed to go. Person A says something, person B tries to grasp it by asking questions or paraphrasing back what person A has said. When they understand each other, person B responds with agreement or disagreement. We go from there. He says nobody does that. I say yes they do. He says I'm making this up. I tell him, no, it's a thing people who respect each other do.
This is the bare bones of one example.
I'm exhausted from thinking about it and I'm exhausted from retyping every other word bc this phone is not working properly. Grrr lol
Dandy- typing while referring back to a long message above like the one I quoted is more difficult. So I will do that with my laptop and I'll post it or PM you tomorrow?
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,854
Originally Posted by waggin
Hi everybody,
I'm wondering if anyone has a link to a site or a book recommendation, or even a diagram which depicts the basics of communication, specific to an intimate relationship.
I hesitate to even explain the situation bc certain people on this site like to chastise people like me for choosing to still try in these situations. So please back off with the "you need to just leave" or the "what's wrong with you that you're still with him" talk.
The bf doesn't understand how to communicate. I say my piece, ask for changes, and the discussion stops there. He doesn't know how to respond: how to also assert his expectations or give feedback about my statements, etc... I just need a very basic description of how a discussion is supposed to go.
I cruised around the stickies, but this old iphone4 im using doesn't navigate well and I'm having a hard time. So I apologize if there's an obvious resource just a click away.
Any kind-hearted help is greatly appreciated. Going to my first alanon meeting tonight. Very scared and already crying just thinking about it. But I'm hopeful for the help I will get.
Thank you
-Waggin
I'm wondering if anyone has a link to a site or a book recommendation, or even a diagram which depicts the basics of communication, specific to an intimate relationship.
I hesitate to even explain the situation bc certain people on this site like to chastise people like me for choosing to still try in these situations. So please back off with the "you need to just leave" or the "what's wrong with you that you're still with him" talk.
The bf doesn't understand how to communicate. I say my piece, ask for changes, and the discussion stops there. He doesn't know how to respond: how to also assert his expectations or give feedback about my statements, etc... I just need a very basic description of how a discussion is supposed to go.
I cruised around the stickies, but this old iphone4 im using doesn't navigate well and I'm having a hard time. So I apologize if there's an obvious resource just a click away.
Any kind-hearted help is greatly appreciated. Going to my first alanon meeting tonight. Very scared and already crying just thinking about it. But I'm hopeful for the help I will get.
Thank you
-Waggin
I made this thread a while back, maybe looking at the different styles of communication will help you.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...tion-pius.html
Also I would take a look over at Smart Recovery because their family program focuses a lot on how to communicate with our partners, how to maintain as healthy a relationship as possible. They also use the Craft method (community reinforcement and family training method) as part of their program. It an evidence based program for family members and is based on behavioral therapies. This book has helped me a lot, and its based on these ideas. It has a lot in it on how to communicate, listen, be heard.: "Beyond Addiction, How Science and Kindness Help People Change" by Jeff Foote PhD.
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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Thanks for this thread, waggin! I am the one with the lack of communication skills, not my xabf. He would so many times have set speeches that would catch me off-guard. I didn't want to or couldn't do a good job of discussing my feelings in a structured convincing way. I'll have to check out some of those links!
I am the one with the lack of communication skills, not my xabf. He would so many times have set speeches that would catch me off-guard. I didn't want to or couldn't do a good job of discussing my feelings in a structured convincing way. I'll have to check out some of those links! Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Brisbane
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I have from time to time recorded the times I've tried to communicate about my ah drinking. I'm not sure why maybe someone on here told me to. Can't remember. He will never whatch it back but I do and I find that helps me to see Cleary about where it goes wrong. It also shows me how bloody immature my Ah is! And how pointless my efforts can be! The last one I watched, I talk to him calmly about money and his drinking he picks up his guitar saying I'm not listening and plays and sings drinking related songs! 
get that!??
get that!??
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: fl
Posts: 63
Soullong- no prpblem! I sure suck at communication too. I don't doubt that. I wouldn't be good with set speeches either. Or spontaneous. I usually need time to absorb and think without emotion getting in the way. With this current boyfriend, he never wants to talk about anything, so if something is discussed, I bring it up. Yesterday when he first brought up moving in together I was silent for a few minutes. We were on the way to his home to drop him off and I called him while driving on my way back. I just needed time to respond to this moving in thing.
When I told him that I couldn't move in bc I didn't trust him to not binge, he went silent. When I asked him if he had anything to say, he asked for some time. I really liked that he did that. Whether or not he actually thought about things or just said it to get me off his back, I don't know. But taking some time was more than ok. But I brought it up to him today bc it had been over 24 hours and I was under the impression he was going to revisit the topic last night. See how I suck at communication too? Haha
I must practice patience 
When I told him that I couldn't move in bc I didn't trust him to not binge, he went silent. When I asked him if he had anything to say, he asked for some time. I really liked that he did that. Whether or not he actually thought about things or just said it to get me off his back, I don't know. But taking some time was more than ok. But I brought it up to him today bc it had been over 24 hours and I was under the impression he was going to revisit the topic last night. See how I suck at communication too? Haha
I must practice patience Member
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Join Date: Dec 2014
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Understand- I'm glad that it helped you to record! I tried that once when i didnt understand that this getting belligerent thing wasnt new for him, just new to me. And he got really angry with me. I did feel bad doing it.
Nowadays, I really do think it would help me to see how much of an ahole I can be in the thick of an argument. I'm sure I'm too intense and that is a big part of the problem. If he doesn't want to communicate, my being a jerk isn't going to get him to open up. Ugh
That must've been so frustrating that your bf just picked up the guitar like that! But you were glad to have it recorded so you could validate your feelings of frustration? That's what I was going for when I recorded him forever ago.
Nowadays, I really do think it would help me to see how much of an ahole I can be in the thick of an argument. I'm sure I'm too intense and that is a big part of the problem. If he doesn't want to communicate, my being a jerk isn't going to get him to open up. Ugh
That must've been so frustrating that your bf just picked up the guitar like that! But you were glad to have it recorded so you could validate your feelings of frustration? That's what I was going for when I recorded him forever ago.
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Some people never move beyond the concrete operational state of development - a period where we become aware of our thoughts, wants, and desires and form opinions - but are unable to verbalize WHY we think what we think or the process by which we came to an opinion. "Why do you like the color blue"? answer "I just do".
Its hard to determine if your ABF is unable to communicate with you the way you want or he is being manipulative. Active alcoholics have MO's that usually if not always include protection of their best friend alcohol. You brought up that when your BF said he wanted to move in and you said "no I can't trust you" he responded that "hurt him". I see avoidance of discussion of his poor behavior by deflecting conversation from his behavior to his feelings of being hurt (by you and what you think). You end up on the defense.
Its entirely possible that your BF is in a blackout state and does not remember all of what he has done. I'm sure he is aware of to an extent. Silence to me is complicity. He is not offering to do anything to make it better, or to address his problems. I advise you take that at face value. When someone refuses to speak their actions speak for themselves.
So I start trying to verbalized how communication is supposed to go. Person A says something, person B tries to grasp it by asking questions or paraphrasing back what person A has said. When they understand each other, person B responds with agreement or disagreement. We go from there. He says nobody does that. I say yes they do. He says I'm making this up. I tell him, no, it's a thing people who respect each other do.
Are we really to believe that this grown man does not understand what a conversation is? Come on. He has some pretty amazing avoidance tactics IMO.
Its hard to determine if your ABF is unable to communicate with you the way you want or he is being manipulative. Active alcoholics have MO's that usually if not always include protection of their best friend alcohol. You brought up that when your BF said he wanted to move in and you said "no I can't trust you" he responded that "hurt him". I see avoidance of discussion of his poor behavior by deflecting conversation from his behavior to his feelings of being hurt (by you and what you think). You end up on the defense.
Its entirely possible that your BF is in a blackout state and does not remember all of what he has done. I'm sure he is aware of to an extent. Silence to me is complicity. He is not offering to do anything to make it better, or to address his problems. I advise you take that at face value. When someone refuses to speak their actions speak for themselves.
So I start trying to verbalized how communication is supposed to go. Person A says something, person B tries to grasp it by asking questions or paraphrasing back what person A has said. When they understand each other, person B responds with agreement or disagreement. We go from there. He says nobody does that. I say yes they do. He says I'm making this up. I tell him, no, it's a thing people who respect each other do.
Are we really to believe that this grown man does not understand what a conversation is? Come on. He has some pretty amazing avoidance tactics IMO.
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Some people, alcoholic or not, don't communicate well.
I can say near the end of my marriage my X and I did not communicate much b/c we had already said the same things over and over. There was no point anymore.
Even though I am open as a person, an extrovert, counseling has helped me learn how to better communicate with everyone around me in so many different situations.
I am sorry for your first posts here were critical, that is not how it's supposto be. We are here to support and encourage you. Anyone who does not do that, just put them on ignore.
Have a nice weekend!
I can say near the end of my marriage my X and I did not communicate much b/c we had already said the same things over and over. There was no point anymore.
Even though I am open as a person, an extrovert, counseling has helped me learn how to better communicate with everyone around me in so many different situations.
I am sorry for your first posts here were critical, that is not how it's supposto be. We are here to support and encourage you. Anyone who does not do that, just put them on ignore.
Have a nice weekend!
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,854
Originally Posted by waggin
That info from BlueChair is so great. I'm loving it and I'm so excited to research it further!
Ive personally not found anything here on SR family forums that leads in this direction. I feel its mostly designed around ideas of detachment.
With the Craft and Smart concepts, these are designed to help you stay "engaged" with your loved ones as much as possible (depending on the extent of negative behaviors related to the addiction of course). If you ever want to chat about this stuff, please pm me.
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Unfortunately, I haven't always felt welcomed on this site either because of my choices with my xabf. It's okay really, because, well... what do you expect when you have a bunch of codependent people trying to help other codependent people...? It's kinda comical when you think about it. All the control we are learning to let go of, the endless "advice" we can give, the ear to listen, the unending "abilities" to "fix" every one else's problems....
I still come back. I need to vent.
But to your question. I can't say that I can wrap my head around wanting to learn communication skills in order to help someone else communicate better unless I was a type of counselor. What I do know is that whatever advice you do find, he has to be receptive to trying it out. I also know that no matter what advice or method is given to an alcoholic, their minds are still wet with alcohol (unless he is now working sobriety and has some good time under his belt?), and that alcohol is a chemical that affects the natural balance of chemicals in the brain. It affects memory too. Eventually, all the info that goes in gets jumbled about in a way that will support the habit of drinking.
On the other hand, if I were a counselor, I know that communication has a lot to do with perspective. And that perspective is backed up by emotion. He will have to get in touch with those feelings if he is ever to learn to "communicate"
I still come back. I need to vent.
But to your question. I can't say that I can wrap my head around wanting to learn communication skills in order to help someone else communicate better unless I was a type of counselor. What I do know is that whatever advice you do find, he has to be receptive to trying it out. I also know that no matter what advice or method is given to an alcoholic, their minds are still wet with alcohol (unless he is now working sobriety and has some good time under his belt?), and that alcohol is a chemical that affects the natural balance of chemicals in the brain. It affects memory too. Eventually, all the info that goes in gets jumbled about in a way that will support the habit of drinking.
On the other hand, if I were a counselor, I know that communication has a lot to do with perspective. And that perspective is backed up by emotion. He will have to get in touch with those feelings if he is ever to learn to "communicate"
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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The key for me is understanding how we communicate with others has a lot to do with what we get back in terms of how people communicate with us. Using Community Reinforcement for example, we learn to focus on communication when a person isnt drinking or high. We learn to meet people where they are at, not where we are at, and communication generally goes better. People can be addicted to substances and at varying stages of addiction. Some dont even meet the medical standards for addiction or alcoholism, so we cant lump people all together. We have to communicate on an individual level for best results. At least this is what Ive found.
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