honeypig

Hi, folks--I wonder if I can get some insight and/or advice about something that's been annoying me more and more lately. Here's an example: Boss at work wants me to pick up one of our mixers from the guy who fixes them. I call the guy and we set up a time for me to drive out and get it. Just as we're about to hang up, he says "oh, and give me a call about 20 minutes before you'll be here, to make sure I'm awake." This is what bugs me--I feel like, OK, I called you and we made an agreement. I expect to take care of honoring my end of the commitment and to communicate to you if things change, but WHY am I in charge of making sure YOU honor YOUR end, too?

So I can see 2 ways to look at it--one is the way that I'm seeing it right now, that as an adult, I am responsible for doing what I said, and as another adult, YOU are responsible for doing what YOU said. It's not my job to call you and make sure you didn't forget/oversleep/fly to Vegas!

The other way of seeing it is that it's not fair for me to put my expectations of responsibility on someone else and I should just call like they asked me to. I recently found a website listing "workplace behaviors of ACOAs", The Workplace Laundry List , that touched on how we are perfectionists and expect others to have our values and work ethic, even though most do not. Many (like almost all) of the behaviors it listed are things I do now or have done in the past.

I'd welcome any discussion, suggestions on how to handle this, sharing of experiences--anything at all. This area has never been one of my strengths; in fact, I've been pretty bad at it all along, and any improvement I can make will be a step forward! Thanks in advance to anyone who can contribute.

GracieLou

I think this may come down to personal choice of what you are willing, as a person, to tolerate or accommodate.

I personally agree with you that it is not your job to make sure this ***** is awake. If you set a time to be there then the cards now fall into his realm as an adult to be responsible to set his own alarm clock/cell phone/rooster.

For a friend or my child I may do something of this nature but that is because I have a relationship with them. Maybe I understand that they worked late last night, have been ill lately and not feeling well, new mother, grieving..etc. In those kinds of cases or instances, then yes, I am more than willing to do someone a favor or to have compassion and bend my needs a little to help them fulfill theirs, but a random person, a person that I deal with in a business sense, not so much.

I think we have to look at the person we are dealing with and why they are asking us.

In this case, I don't think I would feel obligated to carry their adult responsibilities. There are expectations that are involved in everyone we deal with. Expecting others to act like an adult, is not one that I feel is to out of the normal realm of human contact.

He is not bringing the mixer to you, you are picking it up. I would expect him to be awake and ready to deliver.

edited to add:

Or, you could make the call, get the item and be on your merry way.

I guess you need to decide how people treat you. Those, in a way, are expectations we set on ourselves. I expect to be treated with dignity and respect. If I let someone treat me otherwise and I tolerate it, I can only blame myself.

Duckygirl1

What GL said ^
I think that people will rise to the level that is expected of them. It's not bad to expect people to be responsible in business. I just had a huge fall out with an irresponsible person that I called out. They were angry, defensive and blame shifting, but I couldn't care less. This ***** could set an alarm on his phone, he could just stay up and be professional. His siesta should not be getting in your way.

healthyagain

Sorry, but the guy sounds unprofessional. I do not think that this has anything to do with you or your "perfectionism," or your great expectations. Dealing with my clients, for example, I have to be super careful and super professional. Otherwise, I lose them. It is a simple formula. Doing business is doing business. What he did is also disrespectful. You are not his mom to wake him up.

Or, ask yourself this, if you were the boss, and you wanted to employ someone, what kind of person would you employ? How would you want this person communicate with your clients? Because his behavior might jeopardize your profit, and this is when mercy in business (if there is any) stops.

shil2587

Honestly, I would do it. It's not your job to teach him a lesson by setting up the transaction to fail (that's how I would feel, even if you don't, but maybe you might, a little?). If you arrive and he's asleep you could very well end up going back to your boss empty handed. Which puts your boss out, his contracts out and you out as you'd have to rearrange.

On the other hand, you could just call on your way and pick up the mixer. If you really want to, you could make a comment when you're there, about not being used to waking up adults to do business with them, but I probably wouldn't bother. It wont change him and not calling could put you and your boss out.

AnvilheadII

while not quite the same....whenever we know someone is coming over either to visit or even to deliver pizza...we ask them to call when they are 10-15 minutes out so we can make sure the dogs are in. that way the dogs don't have to be INSIDE simply because someone MAY come by at some time.......in that way we aren't on THEIR schedule.

honeypig

Thanks for your input, folks. I agree, I'd have no problem calling to give someone a heads up if they were a friend or family member who I knew was extremely busy, under the weather, etc., as Gracie said. I just think this is nuts in a work situation.

We had a new driver start in early January. He had no transportation of his own and the buses don't run at that time of the AM, either. He'd taken a cab to work on the first day! I thought wow, this guy really wants the job--since he didn't live terribly far from me, I offered to give him a ride to work for the first month or so until he got back on his feet. He did the "call me so I'm awake" thing and I didn't say anything about it, just did it, altho I thought to myself "gosh, if someone was doing ME this kind of favor, I'd be outside waiting for my ride, not asking the person doing me the favor to call me and wake me up, too!"

It took longer and longer each day for him to be ready, and towards the end of the 2 weeks he worked w/me, it was taking me 3 or 4 calls to get thru to him. Now, a normal person would have realized their boundary was crossed a long time ago, right? Not me, or only in a very vague sense, I guess...

So this is what started me thinking about this "call me" thing--I hope the next time it crops up, which I'm sure it will, I have a better response.

BTW, that guy lasted a month total and was fired in the end anyway.

Anvilhead, we have dogs too and I can relate to wanting to get them out of the way before delivery/repair folks show up. That, to me, is a different thing than the examples I gave here. I totally agree that in that case, it's easier on the dogs and the humans if there's advance notice.

dandylion

Honeypig....."perfectionism" (which you have categorized this behavior.....reaction...?) is a big....big subject for discussion.

I wonder if you could be more specific as to exactly what about this scenario bothers you the most?

Until you give a more specific answer---I will consider that you are asking
"what should I do?". Welllll.....I can tell you how I would handle this. I would first look at the "big picture" and decide, within that, what would be the likely cost/return ratio for complying with the request .....or, NOT complying with the request.
Now, in this case, I can see myself simply saying..."o.k." and never giving it another thought. (of course I am assuming that it will be quite easy to do so). I also consider amiable relations among co-workers a very useful thing and having a degree of flexibility and accommodation is necessary. Kind of like: We are on the same team and we have each other's back.

Now, if this kind of request consistently causes a LOT of inner anxiety, or
discomfort.....then, perhaps, it would be useful to search for the origin of these kinds of feelings....... LOL! Most of the time when we go searching for these kinds of answers....we will find that they took root sometime during our early developmental years....... (who knew?).
Sometimes.....understanding something can lead us to think differently about the meaning of it.....If we think different....(sometimes) we will feel different.....which leads to an attitude shift...which can lead to a behavioral change.....
Can I get chips with that......? lol.

dandylion

redatlanta

When you aren't in the corporate world and dealing with smaller business it can be common.

We went by to pick up a custom mantle for my dad couple of months ago and even though we said we would be by at 1 were asked to send a text when we were on the way. Okie Dokie.

At my own business I do ask for a text sometimes as traffic has gotten so bad that people are often late. Depends on their appt time.

If I am the client and someone asks me to I just do it if its a one time or every once in a while thing. I have never been asked to do it to wake someone up.
I hire subs a lot if we have an early call invariably I am asked to call them to 'make sure they are awake". I do it.

That example of offering a ride to someone and him getting later and later....the first day I had to call twice would have been the last.

OnlyOneProblem

I seem to have the reputation that I remember everything and that seems to encourage this type of behavior. I'll be 60 this year....still remember a lot, but these days (since recovery), my response will be

"Remind me to remind you - Ha! Ha! "

I ask myself often "What works for me?" If I have that irritating feeling, I know right away it isn't working for me.

honeypig

Thanks for the thoughts, Dandy--I'm not really sure if this is something rooted in the past or not, though. For most of my life, I would have just made the call and not thought twice about it, believing it to be just another part of my job to keep the world turning. It's only since SR and Alanon that I am beginning to question what is really my responsibility and what is not.

And to answer your question about what bothers me about it, I guess it's exactly that--I feel as if this a kind of enabling or codependent behavior on my part, when an adult asks me to handle something that he/she should be handling him/herself and I accept a responsibility that really isn't mine.

honeypig

This is exactly what I wish I had done, in hindsight, redatlanta, and it's the reason I'm here asking you all to share w/me so I can figure out how to think about this and what to do/not do in the future. Thank you!

biminiblue

I have never had that happen. In business, people need to be able to keep appointments with clients. If they don't - they rightfully go out of business. This guy must be the only one around who does this kind of work?

I've heard of this kind of thing happening in small towns a lot. I live in a big metro area, and this guy would be out of business in six months. Very unprofessional.

Was your appointment at 4 am?

honeypig

HA!! It was actually at 7 AM, since he lives quite a ways from the bakery but is very near one section of one of the delivery routes. When I made the appointment, I was quite upfront about how it would be great if I could swing by when I was on that route, as it would save us gas and time, but if that didn't work, I'd be happy to set up another appointment at a different time.

The guy is an older guy who also has an orchard, and I think he does the fixing stuff as a sideline, so perhaps that accounts for his attitude. It's just foreign to me b/c to me, it wouldn't matter--I would simply never do that; I would take it to be my responsibility, no questions asked. I made the commitment, now I must honor it.

And I guess maybe we're getting down to the heart of the matter here--maybe it IS just my personal values/ethics here, MY problem about myself to deal with?

dandylion

honeypig......yes, I can see....this is something that you have to determine for yourself.
The way I see it---most situations (requiring individual judgement are not "black and white". Each situation (to my eyes) is scenario dependent. Each requiring a different judgement--dependent on the variables.

I guess you threw me off a bit when you indicated that there had been long standing perfectionistic behaviors that have been ascribed to the adult children of alcoholics. (the test that you took).
The kinds of perfectionism that falls into the neurotic category is pretty generally accepted as deriving from early developmental experiences as well as genetic predispositions.
Big difference between having high standards in certain areas of one's life and neurotic perfectionism. One can bring certain rewards to one's life.....while the other can undermine self-esteem and bring psychic discomfort.
Like I said.....this can be a B..I...G subject. An interesting one, also, I think......

dandylion

biminiblue

Yup, and this is where forgiveness comes in so handy.

I can understand his request based on this additional information. 7AM is pretty early to be ready to take on clients if he is older and doesn't do this as his first business. You requested an appointment outside of business hours.

It is always about us. They keep saying it isn't, but it is.

I can be the same way, expectations get me into a lot of trouble.


My little calendar today has this thought: "Just for today I will respect the thoughts and feelings of those I come in contact with."

I think you are more angry about the coworker thing. That one I think was taken too far. I'm with Red on that one.

readerbaby71

I do think it's putting expectations of ourselves on others. I know I have very high standards for myself, which are probably unrealistic for other people. IMO, the guy is who he is and may just be a kind of flaky person. He may work 80 hours a week and if he's older, he probably needs all the sleep he can get.

In a way he's being considerate because he doesn't want you to come and have him be asleep or not at home. Does that make sense?

Oh, and the coworker thing was total BS. Glad you don't have to deal with that anymore.

honeypig

Dandy, I apologize for not being clear in my original post. I don't think my standards are ridiculously high or that I'm really a perfectionist, but on occasions when I compare myself w/people around me at work, I do have to admit that we are quite often on completely different levels.

I don't tend to feel I'm wrong to care as much as I do or put forth the effort that I do, altho this has certainly caused trouble for me in the past. One of the things that has changed in recent years (thanks to SR/Alanon) is that now I can care as much as I do, put forth more effort than many, and usually let go of the results, being content that I did my best and now the rest is up to the Universe. It's a whole different thing.

At work, I do constantly find myself taking on stuff that's NOT "my stuff." I was training new guys non-stop from early January thru early April, and while I was ready to scream by the time this all ended, it really forced me to look at how much I do in fact do for people at work that they can and should do for themselves. If a new person was not taking ownership of the job and not showing initiative, I'd make myself crazy making and printing detailed driving directions, complete lists of all the duties, etc., all in an effort to "make things easier" for them. At one point, I had a moment of clarity--I thought "hey, when I was learning this job, I was the one who was taking notes on how to get from here to there, I was the one making myself a list of which accounts were on which route...why am I doing it FOR these trainees NOW?"

And I guess that's part of all this, too--my hands are fuller and fuller, and eventually I start to make mistakes. I'm looking to let go of what's NOT my responsibility so I can do better at what IS my responsibility.

honeypig

bimini and reader, "expectations" are kind of a recurring theme for me these days. Seems like they're the root of all evil--but yet, w/o some expectations, society doesn't function, right?

There's been a lot of good input here and I've got a lot to think about. I appreciate it, everybody!

LexieCat

I think it's completely understandable, given that this isn't his primary occupation and his age. It's what, 30 seconds out of your life to call first? If he'd said he might be on another job or something you wouldn't question it--it's the "to make sure I'm awake" that seems to be getting to you. How would your boss feel about having to find another appliance repairer (they are getting harder to come by all the time) because you can't be bothered to make a 30-second phone call to make it possible to continue to use this guy?

To me, you're making a large deal out of something truly trivial. There are certainly places where a line must be drawn, but being asked to make a 30-second "on my way" call doesn't seem like one of them.