OT/"Call me to make sure..."
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
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BTW, that wasn't intended to be harsh. I get your point, and in a philosophical kind of way, you're right. But if you look at it from a PRACTICAL standpoint, it's one of those things not worth disturbing yourself or your boss or this guy over. I spend a lot of my time thinking, "Is this worth complaining about, given the big picture?" And often, it isn't. Acceptance is my friend in those situations.
Hugs,
Hugs,
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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On one side, you have standards. On the other, you have circumstances. Older guy + 7AM + other jobs = not such a rude thing to ask, not at all. Sometimes we have to learn to be flexible, and what is unacceptable in one situation can be perfectly acceptable in another. Everything is relative.
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I began to type a rather defensive reply, Lexie--I did think your first post was a tad harsh, yes. Thanks for clarifying.
Let me say this: It was never an option for me to NOT call the guy. I was not going to keep the work from getting done b/c I felt it was not my responsibility to call him. I was not going to "endanger the relationship b/c I couldn't be bothered to make a 30-second phone call." I don't believe I said or implied that I was, either.
This is my thinking: The guy is in business. I don't care if it's a second business. It's a BUSINESS. He is being paid for his services. By being in business, he has an obligation to his customers. That includes keeping appointments w/o "reminder" calls.
I have worked more than one job, but I have never slacked/slighted the second job b/c it WAS my second job; they got my best performance also. I would never use that as an excuse--"oh, it's only my second job, so it doesn't matter if I come in late/don't show up/do a half-assed job." B/c that is how it is in MY world, I expect the same from others.
So that's where I'm coming from--and as I said, there is a lot of food for thought here. This type of responsibility/commitment thing is something I feel very deeply, and it's going to take some work to decide if I even WANT to change it, let alone begin the actual change.
And Dandy? I've been thinking more about your suggestion that I look into my early years for a root for this. While I was growing up, my stepfather made many promises that were never kept. I've always been incredibly vigilant about doing what I said I would, and I wonder if that's the connection...?
Let me say this: It was never an option for me to NOT call the guy. I was not going to keep the work from getting done b/c I felt it was not my responsibility to call him. I was not going to "endanger the relationship b/c I couldn't be bothered to make a 30-second phone call." I don't believe I said or implied that I was, either.
This is my thinking: The guy is in business. I don't care if it's a second business. It's a BUSINESS. He is being paid for his services. By being in business, he has an obligation to his customers. That includes keeping appointments w/o "reminder" calls.
I have worked more than one job, but I have never slacked/slighted the second job b/c it WAS my second job; they got my best performance also. I would never use that as an excuse--"oh, it's only my second job, so it doesn't matter if I come in late/don't show up/do a half-assed job." B/c that is how it is in MY world, I expect the same from others.
So that's where I'm coming from--and as I said, there is a lot of food for thought here. This type of responsibility/commitment thing is something I feel very deeply, and it's going to take some work to decide if I even WANT to change it, let alone begin the actual change.
And Dandy? I've been thinking more about your suggestion that I look into my early years for a root for this. While I was growing up, my stepfather made many promises that were never kept. I've always been incredibly vigilant about doing what I said I would, and I wonder if that's the connection...?
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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Here is another thing. 7am you say? What are HIS working hours? Now if I generally start working at 8 and finish at 17:00, and your request is outside this time frame, I might even be a bit grumpy. The guy has right to have his schedule and plan his time, unless he is paid to be available 24/7. I am speculating of course. Yes business is business, job needs to get done, but there are also some fine nuances that have to be considered.
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I think trying to look at this from his perspective might help. Also keep in mind that you have no idea what's going on in the guy's life. This is where acceptance and compassion come into play.
As I said before, I don't consider his request to be making an excuse. Asking you to call doesn't mean he doesn't care about his business or your time. If anything, it is conscientious of him to make sure he's available to you. I'd think of it as working together, not as responsibility or obligation on your part.
In the dental office where I worked we made reminder calls the day before patients' appointments. Yes, it was irksome, yes, I hated it, and yes, it pissed me off when they didn't show or bitched that they didn't get a call. But it's part of life. What's professional to one person is too formal for another, especially when dealing with small business owners. Just my two cents. Hope you're having a good Sunday!
As I said before, I don't consider his request to be making an excuse. Asking you to call doesn't mean he doesn't care about his business or your time. If anything, it is conscientious of him to make sure he's available to you. I'd think of it as working together, not as responsibility or obligation on your part.
In the dental office where I worked we made reminder calls the day before patients' appointments. Yes, it was irksome, yes, I hated it, and yes, it pissed me off when they didn't show or bitched that they didn't get a call. But it's part of life. What's professional to one person is too formal for another, especially when dealing with small business owners. Just my two cents. Hope you're having a good Sunday!
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Originally Posted by healthyagain 
Here is another thing. 7am you say? What are HIS working hours? Now if I generally start working at 8 and finish at 17:00, and your request is outside this time frame, I might even be a bit grumpy. The guy has right to have his schedule and plan his time, unless he is paid to be available 24/7. I am speculating of course. Yes business is business, job needs to get done, but there are also some fine nuances that have to be considered.
I think the issue here is the "call me - even though I am agreeing to meet you."
The thing with the coworker is the real issue here, IMO. First, I don't understand why the offer was made to a total stranger to pick him up for work. He is responsible for getting himself to work. If he took a job with no transportation - that's on him. If he was taking a cab - then let him. I would not take on the problems of someone brand new to my place of business. He is in the position to prove himself reliable before I offer to help him. IF at some point I decide I'll give him a ride, it is on a one-time, or occasional basis. Not daily, and I'm not his momma, if he isn't waiting outside for me when I get there, I leave without him. This is where a prior relationship is necessary to me. Even then, there needs to be reciprocal consideration if it is to be a daily thing. She didn't say, but I hope he was giving her gas money or some other "payment."
There's no way in hello that I'm calling him even once to "make sure he's up." (the coworker)
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No advice or real response but a thanks to all who have contributed logical and practical replies to this thread. It has tripped ALL of my ACoA triggers, so I have refrained from commenting. I've been in many similar situations and have somehow never managed to summon the "right" response. Either I read way too much into it and overreact or cut people way to much slack and end up shouldering a burden that doesn't belong to me.
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Originally Posted by honeypig
I began to type a rather defensive reply, Lexie--I did think your first post was a tad harsh, yes. Thanks for clarifying.
BTW, the co-worker was TOTALLY out of line. I could see if the guy had a particular issue on one occasion (no sleep all weekend because of a sick relative or something), but to routinely expect a wakeup call from a co-worker is INSANE.
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bimini, I think you're probably on the right track. It's totally possible that I reacted to Mr. Mixer Man the way I did b/c of the situation w/the coworker a few months ago. That would be characteristic of me, to NOT react when it would have been appropriate and then to OVERreact when something similar happens later...
And all of the stuff you said about the offer to help a total stranger and so on? ABSOLUTELY. Your response is EXACTLY what a healthy, normal person would say/do, I think. But here is MY response, from Melody Beattie's list of Codie characteristics: I felt anxiety, pity, and guilt when someone else had a problem. I felt compelled to help that person solve the problem. I was angry when my help wasn't effective. I felt angry, victimized, underappreciated and used.
Gee, there's not a lot of overlap between your responses and mine, is there? I win the Codie/ACOA behavior pattern prize!!
So we ended up in a place other than where I anticipated we'd go when I started this thread. I don't particularly like a lot of what I heard. However, I know from experience here that those are usually the threads that do me the most good in the end, so I have to bite the bullet and trust that in time I'll see the light.
And all of the stuff you said about the offer to help a total stranger and so on? ABSOLUTELY. Your response is EXACTLY what a healthy, normal person would say/do, I think. But here is MY response, from Melody Beattie's list of Codie characteristics: I felt anxiety, pity, and guilt when someone else had a problem. I felt compelled to help that person solve the problem. I was angry when my help wasn't effective. I felt angry, victimized, underappreciated and used.
Gee, there's not a lot of overlap between your responses and mine, is there? I win the Codie/ACOA behavior pattern prize!!
So we ended up in a place other than where I anticipated we'd go when I started this thread. I don't particularly like a lot of what I heard. However, I know from experience here that those are usually the threads that do me the most good in the end, so I have to bite the bullet and trust that in time I'll see the light.
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Originally Posted by ladyscribbler
It has tripped ALL of my ACoA triggers, so I have refrained from commenting. I've been in many similar situations and have somehow never managed to summon the "right" response. Either I read way too much into it and overreact or cut people way to much slack and end up shouldering a burden that doesn't belong to me.
Thank you so much for posting this. I was starting to feel very alone out here on my branch....
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honeypig - I was you. I used to bring home every stray animal/person/broken chair from the garbage.
It. is. exhausting.
Not only that, it didn't help them, and it made me crazy. I absolutely inherited this - my mother was a pretty narcissistic person and could never understand why the entire planet didn't stop spinning on its axis every time she spoke, lol.
God bless her soul on this Mother's Day, but she could be a real PITA. What finally got me into recovery was concurrent relationships with her and my ex-husband that were causing me so much grief that I finally threw up my hands at both of them and said, "I'm done." Both of you take a long walk off a short pier. I got into every imaginable self-help book, recovery group, seminar, TV show, yadda yadda.
This:
Was me in a nutshell - and I learned it from the best.
When I stopped helping every stray kitten and bowing to every other person's wishes on the planet, suddenly my life was manageable.
I grew up in so much dysfunction, just like we all did. Now I tend to detach first and then look at it later
It. is. exhausting.
Not only that, it didn't help them, and it made me crazy. I absolutely inherited this - my mother was a pretty narcissistic person and could never understand why the entire planet didn't stop spinning on its axis every time she spoke, lol.
God bless her soul on this Mother's Day, but she could be a real PITA. What finally got me into recovery was concurrent relationships with her and my ex-husband that were causing me so much grief that I finally threw up my hands at both of them and said, "I'm done." Both of you take a long walk off a short pier. I got into every imaginable self-help book, recovery group, seminar, TV show, yadda yadda.
This:
I felt anxiety, pity, and guilt when someone else had a problem. I felt compelled to help that person solve the problem. I was angry when my help wasn't effective. I felt angry, victimized, underappreciated and used.
When I stopped helping every stray kitten and bowing to every other person's wishes on the planet, suddenly my life was manageable.
I grew up in so much dysfunction, just like we all did. Now I tend to detach first and then look at it later
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Originally Posted by honeypig
BINGO BINGO BINGO!! OMG, that is a perfect description of countless situations all throughout my life.
Thank you so much for posting this. I was starting to feel very alone out here on my branch....
Thank you so much for posting this. I was starting to feel very alone out here on my branch....
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My immediate reaction to the guy & the phone call was to reply, "Gosh, I'm not good about remembering to do that for others.... can you maybe set a reminder on your phone to ring 20 mins ahead of our appt?"
I know there can be more to it than that - locally, seasonal traffic can sometimes delay your travels by up to an hour so I could absolutely understand someone wanting to know if I was running later, especially if they themselves were coming from another location to meet me.
Like readerbaby, I do have some clients that I need to call for appt reminders. Those don't bother me because I don't do it for everyone & most of them are elderly & need a little more assistance keeping track of all of their appts.
I think, like you, I have an expectation that if/when someone agrees to a responsibility it's up to them to be able to honor it. 1st job, 2nd job, volunteer job... I don't care. And again, exceptions exist of course. I'll tolerate more in business than I will personally because it's my job & reputation on the line. When I'm asking for special treatment (like an appt before or after regular business hours), I'm likely going to offer to go out of my way to make it easier on the other party.
This quote is awesome - I can absolutely relate. It took me a long time to learn to regulate my emotions in these situations. My mother is horrible with this (& I learned oh-so-much from her) - she underreacts when she feels intimidated & then blows UP on the wrong people for minor issues. She's getting better but in the past she's been downright rude & it could get pretty embarrassing. She has a terrible time with tone, word choice & timing & she comes off much more intense than necessary sometimes.
Great thread!
I know there can be more to it than that - locally, seasonal traffic can sometimes delay your travels by up to an hour so I could absolutely understand someone wanting to know if I was running later, especially if they themselves were coming from another location to meet me.
Like readerbaby, I do have some clients that I need to call for appt reminders. Those don't bother me because I don't do it for everyone & most of them are elderly & need a little more assistance keeping track of all of their appts.
I think, like you, I have an expectation that if/when someone agrees to a responsibility it's up to them to be able to honor it. 1st job, 2nd job, volunteer job... I don't care. And again, exceptions exist of course. I'll tolerate more in business than I will personally because it's my job & reputation on the line. When I'm asking for special treatment (like an appt before or after regular business hours), I'm likely going to offer to go out of my way to make it easier on the other party.
by ladyscribbler
I've been in many similar situations and have somehow never managed to summon the "right" response. Either I read way too much into it and overreact or cut people way to much slack and end up shouldering a burden that doesn't belong to me.
I've been in many similar situations and have somehow never managed to summon the "right" response. Either I read way too much into it and overreact or cut people way to much slack and end up shouldering a burden that doesn't belong to me.
Great thread!
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Feeling like I need to have the "right" response has been a recurring problem for me, too, and I am not an ACOA. I am, however, a recovering control freak who spent many years in a career where I was paid big bucks to have the right response. Finding myself in situations big and small where the right response did not immediately spring to my mind left me feeling stupid and like a failure. And on a personal level, it had the same results: either flipping my lid at something teeny weeny, or being totally chill about something very, very big.
As far as expectations go, I have long struggled with this. I know I cannot have any expectations of my AH. I know that doing so leads to disappointment. But I also believe that healthy spouses CAN and SHOULD have certain basic expectations of each other. So yes, HP, I totally agree that to have a functional society, we have to be able to depend on each other, most of the time, to conduct our affairs in a socially acceptable manner. I also think that's why we build up so much resentment after years with addicts--living with someone who so regularly and flagrantly and remorselessly conducts him or herself so outside of what is socially acceptable--we start to get really. pissed. off.
My two cents? I think this totally triggered your insecurities about how you felt when your co-worker took advantage of your kindness back in January/February. And you know what I'm going to say...be gentle with yourself. <3
As far as expectations go, I have long struggled with this. I know I cannot have any expectations of my AH. I know that doing so leads to disappointment. But I also believe that healthy spouses CAN and SHOULD have certain basic expectations of each other. So yes, HP, I totally agree that to have a functional society, we have to be able to depend on each other, most of the time, to conduct our affairs in a socially acceptable manner. I also think that's why we build up so much resentment after years with addicts--living with someone who so regularly and flagrantly and remorselessly conducts him or herself so outside of what is socially acceptable--we start to get really. pissed. off.
My two cents? I think this totally triggered your insecurities about how you felt when your co-worker took advantage of your kindness back in January/February. And you know what I'm going to say...be gentle with yourself. <3
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FireSprite and Wisconsin, thank you so much for your thoughtful posts and your insight. There are definitely nuggets of truth for me to gnaw on here!
I'm glad to hear from others who have experienced, either first- or secondhand, the "underreact/overreact" phenomenon. I really do think your assessment that this is what is going on here is right on the money. I KNOW I didn't handle things correctly w/the coworker and I'm angry that I let myself be made a doormat of, so now I'm hypersensitive to any whiff of a similar situation arising, leading me to overreact about the phone call.
FS, thanks for the concrete suggestion about how to handle similar requests in the future if I need to. Wisconsin, thanks for your suggestion to "be gentle"... ((((Hugs))))
I'm glad to hear from others who have experienced, either first- or secondhand, the "underreact/overreact" phenomenon. I really do think your assessment that this is what is going on here is right on the money. I KNOW I didn't handle things correctly w/the coworker and I'm angry that I let myself be made a doormat of, so now I'm hypersensitive to any whiff of a similar situation arising, leading me to overreact about the phone call.
FS, thanks for the concrete suggestion about how to handle similar requests in the future if I need to. Wisconsin, thanks for your suggestion to "be gentle"... ((((Hugs))))
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