cookiesncream

It sounds to me by your last entry is your REAL question is not what is what is it like to be in the grips of alcoholism but rather "why don't more alcoholics recover despite the negative consequences?" This is a different question and again, answers will vary. I will frame my answer to the question to "why don't more alcoholics recover" based on my own broad observations based on: my own experience, a three month intensive outpatient stint in rehab, and eight months in a women's recovery group which I participate in at least once a week if not more. My answers are based on my broad observations based on these three components.
-Once in recovery the alcoholic must face the consequences of their own past misdeeds. Some face legal issues. Some face extremely angry families that will NEVER forgive them. These are NOT easy to handle. Many in recovery after a time simply give up and relapse because they can't cope. My Dad was an alcoholic for about four years when I was a teenager. He gave up drinking, faced the realities of his actions, and committed suicide instead of relapsing.
-Learning how to cope with life after a period of addiction is HARD. I have had a conversation with more than one alcoholic that agrees that the first year of sobriety is HARD HARD HARD. It isn't sunshine and roses. Most of us that managed to get a year into recovery find that life once we CAN get past "the hump" IS much better and fulfilling BUT you HAVE to be willing to slog through the muck to get there. Many find that journey to be too hard and give up.
-YES many ARE aware that there is more in life BUT the work to get there is too hard.

I'm sure I'll come up with a few more but that's a start.

HopefulinFLA

Sunsun, thank you for this thread, and thank you to all who have shared their experiences. I always appreciate hearing from the alcoholics's perspective.

I often go with RAH to open AA speaker meetings to learn more about what As go through. For me,understanding his battle with alcoholism has been healing. It's helped me to replace my anger and resentments with compassion, which is a much healthier mind set for me.

LexieCat

Open AA meetings are a great idea--and personally, I think it's best to go by yourself, not with a partner who is in AA. Open meetings are just that, "open" to anyone who wants to be there, and I learned a lot going to them--way before I qualified for membership, myself.

cookiesncream

Exactly. If you hate our guts and despise us then LEAVE. Stop trying to fix us, which you can't, and move on with your lives. Don't then jump into another relationship with another addict either thinking you can save us, you can't.

Honestly my husband jumped FULL THROTTLE into Al-Anon at the same time I stopped drinking. Let me tell you that in recovery he is owning up to his own 50% of our problems. In June I will be attending a womens recovery conference the same weekend he will be attending an all weekend Al-Anon conference. We are finding babysitters for that child. WE are working on OUR recovery because its WORTH it. My husband wasn't actually a terribly happy person BEFORE I started my addiction. Once booze was out of the picture we had to face OUR issues. He could no longer blame the booze on our problems and I had to put on a pair of big girl panties and deal with my crap. That said if you hate your husbands guts then LEAVE and don't waste another moments energy on something you can't control.

F50Lurker

Thanks. your post was meaningful to me.

LexieCat

It's not just "loving" the alcohol--it's NEEDING it to survive. Toward the end of my drinking, yes, I knew life was passing me by. But a few hours without alcohol in my system and I was miserable. By the time I had a chance to drink again I was desperate to feel "normal"--and after a few I'd feel normal again--OK, no longer tormented.

It isn't as simple as reasoning it out. Even when you know how bad the alcohol is, and how much it's contributing to your problems, the prospect of quitting is terrifying. And even once you're past the acute withdrawal stage, it can be months and months before you feel physically and mentally normal. But the emotional part is the hardest for a lot of us--we are used to processing uncomfortable feelings in one way--by numbing them down. It's scary and confusing to have to deal with strong emotions without picking up your go-to solution.

Sunsun

Thanks cookiesncream, IMO understanding even a little how different an A's view of the world is means it is easier to either stay and detach with love or leave WITHOUT hatred. I have chosen to leave, not out of any ill-feeling towards the A but rather an understanding that there is nothing any one can do.

Interestingly, I always set hard boundaries, once I understood that it was an A I was dealing with. I went to Alanon as soon as I figured it out, and educated myself. I do not drink and had no experience of alcoholism at all. Zero.

To hear it from people in SR working hard on their recovery gives a different perspective to the active A's we are trying to understand. My XABF has 30 years of hard denial behind him. He is a master at it.

Knowing what now know I chose to set him free to make his own decisions and choices. Understanding allows me to move on with compassion for him and for myself. No hard feelings...we are all grown-ups.

cookiesncream

Thanks I'm glad you understand this. I have dealt with a number of issues in the past month that were definitely drinking triggers. I didn't drink but I did get my rear end online and attended seven online meetings for my support group in seven days. I also took up knitting three months ago and finished my "starter project" which turned into a six foot by six foot wide blanket. I'm working very hard to not play victim anymore and do something constructive when I want to escape. Most alcoholics posting here are in the same boat. We really DO care and we post here because we want to HELP somebody through the muck from a different perspective. We want to give you honest feedback based on our experiences. I hope you have found something of value from the various "A's" that have responded to your thread.

Sunsun

Thanks cookiesncream. You know what, life has its ups and downs for all of us. I still get shocked by the occasional brutality of it. We all deal with crap in different ways. Everyone has to find ways to cope, and NOBODY IS PERFECT.

I have had enough s#%t to spread round a small village. My life has taken a drastically different path to what I was prepared for. So with two kids in tow I learned to survive, cope, adapt, learn, keep moving forward.

In my case, I am a victim of abuse. Screwed me up for a bit, I made bad choices trying to make the right choices. Patterns that I fell into in the grip of grief, trauma and bereavement - dealing with PTSD and C-PTSD. I was trying to cope, still am.

I made the choice to heal myself, recover. I have faced the scars head on, decades I have deleted from my memory are coming back and I welcome them. In my case learning has helped me take the right steps. It's ongoing process and frankly IMO I can only get better. I have been in therapy for a couple of years - determined to reach my full potential.

For me being here on SR is hugely helpful and healing. Knowing we are not alone really helps.

suncatcher

I don't hate my alcoholic. We are not married and don't live together. I have my own place and he lives with his dad. We have a close friendship. I am not consumed by his alcoholism like I once was. I don't try to fix him or control him. He is a human being with an addiction. That does not make him unlovable nor does it make me a bad person for being his friend. I agree if someone is consumed and feels hatred for the alcoholic they should leave but many people simply just love the alcoholic sometimes more than they love themselves. That's when we have to work on our own recovery. It's not that simple for the A to stop drinking and it's not that simple to just stop loving the A. Complicated for both sides.

Deckard

It is also the right word for those on the inside...

LexieCat

Not to mention cunning and powerful....

cookiesncream

I do apologize for being a bit harsh with my words. I think baffling is understandable from the friends and family side. I do realize that many many of you have dealt with any life issues alcoholics have WITHOUT booze. I do feel for you. I know you've dealt with abuse of various kinds, grief, sickness, loss, etc all without booze. I know it must be hard to understand you can deal with all of this sober but alcoholics turn to booze. I understand it must be terribly frustrating. The reality is that call it weakness, fair enough, but alcohol is a maladaptive coping mechanism many of us alcoholics turn to. I'm not proud of my past. I call myself lucky that I was a "not yet" on so many fronts with addiction.

That said learning to deal with all of the things you folks do SOBER is what we in recovery must learn how to do. It is what we are called to do and we must do. I admit I was weak. Perhaps I am a failure as a human being, I don't know. As an ACOA I can honestly say I was quite mad and angry with my Dad for what he put us through. He's been dead for over 30 years now too. Financial ruin, having my Mom wake me up dead in the middle of the night when I was in junior high saying Dad was in jail for a DUI. Then when he GOT sober he copped out again on dealing with the consequences and killed himself two months later. I do "get" your frustrations, really and truly I do. It wasn't until TWENTY SEVEN years later when faced with my own string of crisis one after the other over a period of several years and therapy wasn't working and medications for depression and anxiety weren't working that I turned to alcohol as a crutch. It was then and only then that I finally understood what what my Dad was facing. I also came to understand and realize quite clearly now that my Dad was bi-polar. I found out at some point that he had a nervous breakdown in his early twenties and was hospitalized. He had never been treated for his illness. I'm not sure I'll ever completely forgive him but I do understand him now and I am at peace.

I don't expect you folks to really understand or accept addiction. We put you folks through nightmares. We cave into life's issues you face sober. Be mad and be angry but my deepest hope is that at some point you will find peace in your own lives.

Here are some pictures of my new hobby knitting that is a much more productive and healthy way of dealing with stress than booze... https://whineintheweeds.wordpress.co...ly-or-go-home/

peace

Sunsun

Wow, love your knitting! Lovely colours cookiesncream.

cookiesncream

See we CAN learn new ways of coping:-) Sometimes ya gotta drag us kicking and screaming but some of us DO recover. You're just not seeing it on these boards though. In June I'll be attending a conference for my womens recovery group and I'll be meeting in person a LOT of people I've only known through online boards and chat meetings. There are a lot of women that will be attending who tackled sobriety, many after a few false starts and are living fulfilling SOBER lives. They are reaching out to others. They are leading chat meetings. They are helping the newbies out. They call other new alcoholics who have relapsed for their umpteenth time out on their crap. Hopefully in our own way we can't change our past but we can offer hope and guidance to others still struggling.

suncatcher

I think this thread shows how powerful the emotions can be for both the alcoholic and the non alcoholic. Some of us here are codependent and we learned how to be codependent from childhood...we learned that caretaking is what made us somehow valuable...based our worth on others approvals. As long comes an alcoholic who "needs" us and a powerful bond is formed. Right or wrong codies and alcoholics go together like peas and carrots. We each need our own recovery programs. We learn to detach and find tools to cope with our addiction wheather it's to alcohol or to an alcoholic. Cookies, my sincere congrats on your recovery. I get what you were saying in your earlier post. It's hard for the non addict to understand addiction and it's hard for the addict to understand codependency. I'm sure there is a separate thread on what it's like to be in the grip of codependency...anyway thanks for this thread. Threads like this stir up a lot of thoughts and feelings...that's why it's a good one.

Sunsun

That sounds really interesting cookiesncream.

I have no experience of alcoholism other than my observations of my XABF who has tried to stop 3 to 4 times over the last 30 years. Went into Salvation Army rehab 20 years ago in desperation but relapsed soon after. Stopped again 6 years ago for 12 months and since I've known him he tried twice, once lasted 6 weeks another time 5 months.
The two times since I've known him he has dry knuckled it, didn't address the background issues. Never been to AA and now is determined to drink no matter what, so I've left him to it. He's a big boy.

I have seen on these boards the effort, commitment and dedication sobriety requires. It looks like a lifelong intense study of oneself and the want to change. I admire you for choosing to stop even though I cannot know what your journey is like.

From my stand point, as an 'outsider' I can see how much reaching out matters. It seems to me that bottoming out is lonely, scary and isolating. I love that you and the other women can make a difference to other's lives.

pinkpeony

I don't know for a fact because I'm not an addict/alcoholic, but I'm pretty sure it's a living hell living life in the grip of alcoholism.

AH has cried to me before that just thinking about quitting drinking is the scariest thing in the world to him & that it seems completely un-doable.
He feels that the alcoholism has him conquered and there is no way out. He can not live without it.

NYCDoglvr

Didn't care, it was irrelevant when I was active. Drinking distorts everything and being an active alcoholic is delusional thinking. I'm a pretty smart person but it never occurred to me not to drink today. At a meeting I heard another recovering alcoholic refer to the "M&M Disease": me and more. Other people were simply shadows and if I did something that hurt another I simply drank to escape the feeling. I think active alcoholism also numbs character. It was only acute fear of death from drinking that led to me stopping. I drank because I was full of pain, fear and self-hatred but after a bit of time sober I realized nothing could happen that would take me back to such a dark place. In over 23 years of sobriety I've handled death, loosing money and friends, heald my dog in my arms as he died and was very grateful I was sober during these tough times.

Sunsun

My only experience of active alcoholism is the XABF, who is filled with rage and anger. At 53 years of age his existence has shrunk to working enough to fund his drinking and going to the pub. That's it. No family, no friends other than drinking buddies, no hobbies or interests. He has pushed everyone away.

The only time he eats proper food is on the days he goes to work, he does no exercise at all and is skin and bone. He cries a lot. He rages a lot.
No idea how long the human body can go on like that. It looks to me like it must be super stressful to manage the little bit of pretending he is high-functioning and not an A in his professional persona, and delivering the efficiency and intellectual proficiency required, and the mental and physical deterioration and craving.