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Expectation or hope

Old 08-19-2004, 08:55 AM
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No hijacking done here..........I have been thinking alot about this subject myself....every new post like this one and many others teaches me so many things and gives me things to think about...........and that last post L is amazing......and it is giving me alot to think about right now........
 
Old 08-19-2004, 11:34 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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Post expectation / hope / faith; often interconected but different

Expectations are based on historical reaccurances ie history repeats itself comes to mind. If we set unrealistic expectations they most often will not be met and we will suffer from dissapointment. The allies tried to pacify Hitler over and over again to no avail - this was a ill concieved expectation of PM Neville that he would stop his murderous march throughout Europe if we pacified him - to the contrary he was enabled and empored to continue on his journey of hate and conquest. The equation ws changed by PM Chamberlain and the Allies taking a firm stand in unity againt oppression - hence the equation was changed and we all know the outcome. History does not have to repeat itself. As we can only change ourselves here in lies the possibility to achieve our expectations.

Hope to me is based on things more out of our controll and invokes more faith in uncontrollable events - ie how someone or something might react to our change in the equation regardless of the change if even any at all. To use the same example it was hoped that the weather would hold up in order to have a successfull D Day invation which would eventually change the outcome of the war. Also it was hoped that our troops would not cut and run facing a well defended and entrenched heavilly armored opposition upon landing on the beaches. There was really no way to forsee these events.

Faith to me invokes a higher power. To me it comes from my belief in God and Jesus Christ. It is beyond comprehension. The expression may be "blind faith " to some non believers or faith in the rooms of NA or AA. It is a belief in right over wrong; Good over Evil; Jesus over Satan. It comes from having a spiritual base and practice in those beliefs always - not just when invoked for a cause at hand.
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Old 08-19-2004, 02:34 PM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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No not again! WARNING: More semantic hairsplitting below..

Originally Posted by donald1960
Expectations are based on historical reaccurances ie history repeats itself comes to mind. If we set unrealistic expectations they most often will not be met and we will suffer from dissapointment. The allies tried to pacify Hitler over and over again to no avail - this was a ill concieved expectation of PM Neville that he would stop his murderous march throughout Europe if we pacified him - to the contrary he was enabled and empored to continue on his journey of hate and conquest. The equation ws changed by PM Chamberlain and the Allies taking a firm stand in unity againt oppression - hence the equation was changed and we all know the outcome. History does not have to repeat itself. As we can only change ourselves here in lies the possibility to achieve our expectations.

Hope to me is based on things more out of our controll and invokes more faith in uncontrollable events - ie how someone or something might react to our change in the equation regardless of the change if even any at all. To use the same example it was hoped that the weather would hold up in order to have a successfull D Day invation which would eventually change the outcome of the war. Also it was hoped that our troops would not cut and run facing a well defended and entrenched heavilly armored opposition upon landing on the beaches. There was really no way to forsee these events.

Faith to me invokes a higher power. To me it comes from my belief in God and Jesus Christ. It is beyond comprehension. The expression may be "blind faith " to some non believers or faith in the rooms of NA or AA. It is a belief in right over wrong; Good over Evil; Jesus over Satan. It comes from having a spiritual base and practice in those beliefs always - not just when invoked for a cause at hand.
Caution: More semantic hair splitting.. well sort of..

I like what you said Donald.. .but I'm still just a dog with a bone on this point..

I would strongly recommend expectations and hope be replaced with boundaries and faith both in our lives and in our vocabulary. Words mean things, and these words (expectations and hope) when applied to life can be toxic. I expect the sun to rise every day, I expect that if I jump off my roof I will fall. The universe is marvelously consistent in many ways, yet people are not, and the course of our lives are not either. If we hope for or expect things of others especially (even "normies") then we are often setting ourselves up for disappointment.

Why am I such a stickler and why won't I let this poor thread die (there ain't much of the horse left at this point ) because I messed my life up with expectations and hope.. I hoped for lots of things and expected lots of things from people, places and things.. and was disappointed over, and over, and over again. So yeah, I'm burned, I've dealt with enormous pain and consequences resulting from this perspective. I've found living a life of faith in my higher power without expectations and without trying to engineer events or hoping for a particular vision of my life in the future to be enormously liberating and incredibly rewarding. Note, I did not say easy, or necessarily fun, or pain free (quite contrare).. but rewarding. My reward is peace and serenity. And wow, is it great!

Cheers!
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Old 08-20-2004, 05:00 AM
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Bell....I am not one to let this die either. I have my own bone. Expectations caused me enormous pain...for me that is a given. I lived it. Hope on the other hand is something I have had alot of dicussions about and I think I like your take. I can have hope that my son will turn his life around or I can have faith in a plan removed from my choosing. I think I like the latter verson.

You are right...faith in an outcome that might not be what I would have chosen is not always easy. But it gives me a comfort that neither expectations or hope can come close to.

Expectations hurt. I grew up watching the sanitized families in the 50's/60's sitcoms. That is were my expectations sprouted while I conveniently ignored the reality that was all around me. That grew into expectations of my family (and myself L.) while again I was ignoring what was really happening. (Another of those words...denial) Expectations and hope create a state where reality is suspended. Not the most healthy way to live.

I am always learning...
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Old 08-20-2004, 05:54 AM
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We can hope all we want for things to change but they are not going to change as long as we dont change ourselves or our situations.......

We cant expect other people to change because we can not control anyone elses actions, beliefs, values.......hopes, dreams and expectations.....

It is okay to have hopes and expectations for ourselves as long as its only our ourselves???????
 
Old 08-20-2004, 05:56 AM
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Absolutely, but I always try to make my expectations realistic ....... not making them so lofty that I will fail. Setting oneself up to fail is also not a good thing.

Maybe taking baby steps to recover is the best way.
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Old 08-20-2004, 06:27 AM
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I have been living through other peoples hopes and expectations and dreams for so long, that I dont have any hope, dreams and expectations for myself.......all of mine have revolved around someone else for so many years.....this is amazing......I dont know if I have live my life ever........I live to please my parents, then I live to please my first husband, then my kids and now my second husband.......whatever there hope and dreams were I made them mine...........I didnt have any of my own...........I have been asked many times.......what are my goals............what are my dreams............what do I want to do in the future........what are my ambitions..........they were all based on somone elses opionions..........If my parents didnt agree then I must be wrong........So I would change it, even though I may not have wanted to......

I can think of one example that sticks out in my mind so strongly..........After I had my first daughter....I felt my life was so complete.....I had decided that I was not going to raise her anything like my parents did.........I have read alot of books on child rearing.........I loved them.........one particular book stood out in my mind......."Good Kids, Bad Behavior" by James Dobson...........Wow did that make a lasting impression on me............I would never tell my daughter that she was a bad girl......I would always tell her........Ashley that is bad behvior and I want you to stop that behavior..........I would always take the time to explain to her that she was a very good girl and that I loved her very much but sometimes her behavior wasnt acceptable.......

It made my mom sick......that I did that..........she had made fun of me...........she told one of my other siblings that if she hers me say bad behvior one more time it would make her sick.............as a young mom (24) that hurt my feelings tremendously.......I knew what I was doing was right......but in front of my mom in the next month or so later......I said something to my daughter that was quite typical for my mom to say...........and I stopped saying in front of my mom Bad behavior............(isnt that pathetic) I wasnt able to stand up for my beliefs and my opinions then and I still cant.......when I am around a bunch of people holding a conversation...........what I thought or my opinions didnt matter.....so I would never say much.......I have always did what everbody else agreed on no matter if I wanted to or not..........I always thought that I wasnt important enough........and what would it hurt anyway.....I will still have fun doing what they wanted.........

Does this make sense to anyone else.......I have never learned to be a seperate individual and go with what my hopes and dreams and expectations were.............and since I didnt matter for so many years (I thought) I probably have alot of hidden resentment toward alot of things......because I felt my needs never really mattered much.........
 
Old 08-20-2004, 06:39 AM
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Oh, breec. It makes perfect sense to me. I always thought that, if I could just figure out what everybody else wanted from me and give it to them, they would love me. I didn't even realize I was doing it.

It took a long time for me to believe that everybody could love me just because I'm a wonderful person.

It's hard to change my behavior and my thinking. For me, I had to learn to believe that what I want and think and believe is just as important as what anybody else wants, thnks and believes.

After so many years of basing everything I did and thought on what others thought, it's hard to even figure out what I want and think and believe.

I think that's where we start. What to do want, think and believe?

You are important. You are an individual. You are different from anyone else in the world so, your opinions and needs are different too. You are a special woman and you are smart enough and good enough and loving enough to do and be anything you want to do and be.

Write me back a post that lists at least 10 wonderful things about you. Then, start adding to that list. I know it will end up to be very, very long.
Hugs - L
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Old 08-20-2004, 06:41 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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i agree with bell - perception is part of the mix - something i read said instead of referring to folks as "enablers", refer to them as "rescuers". makes all the difference in the world to me. boundaries and faith exude hope and positive images!!!

breec - i think most of us feel the same way - we were/are always last on the list and tend to get lost in the shuffle. YOU matter and you truly need to feel and believe that.

hugs to u - cwohio
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Old 08-20-2004, 07:15 AM
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I have never took the time to look at myself........I didnt even know that I thought I didnt matter......I just thought this was normal......I didnt realize how much it affected me until just recently........my parents were my parents and I needed to listen to them and do what they wanted at all times or get into trouble..........now dont get me wrong kids are suppose to listen to their parents.........but they are also suppose to know that there ideas, thoughts and dreams are important and they need to be able to make some of their own decisions and maybe learn the hard way sometimes and learn that mom and dad are not always going to cover up or make excuses for you...........or think that they have explain to other people that they had taught me better then just because you didnt agree with them or live up to their standards................I have always tried to teach my child.........its okay to be mad at me, because I also get mad at you......I am not always going to do what you want, just like you are not always going to do what I want.......I am not always going to be fair and right just like you are not always going to be fair and right...........the most important thing I am trying to teach her is respect............I tell her that she can get mad at me all she wants to and she has a right to her opinion........but if she has to go to her room and swear, scream or write anything down that was okay........but dont let me here you call me a bitch...........or see the nasty notes you may want to write about me..........and I will do the same......I am hoping that i am breaking the chain...........(do you know what I mean) I am looking at things differntly now............or I am trying to train myslef to do that........I am just starting to see all the things that I thought were normal were very abnormal............

My husband is so much like my parents............he thinks kids opinions dont matter..........it doesnt matte what they want it is going to be his way or no way.....he is the boss.........this is his castle and when they get their own homes they can do what they want.........(HE IS JUST LIKE THEM, SCARY ISNT IT)
 
Old 08-20-2004, 07:34 AM
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Am I really reaching guys.........
 
Old 08-20-2004, 08:12 AM
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no - sounds like you are trying to teach your daughter a better way to interface with you. hopefully what you are trying to instill will "hold" and not the "my way or the highway" of your parents/h.

keep up the good work - and don't forget yourself because you are not good to anyone else if you aren't good to yourself. how often we have heard that, but i am really hearing now more than ever since i began al-anon, etc.

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Old 09-15-2004, 10:59 PM
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Another Good Post!!
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Old 09-07-2005, 01:36 AM
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Ooh, I like this one too.
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Old 09-07-2005, 02:22 AM
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I hope to win the lottery but as I only buy a ticket every six months I don't expect to win!!

I think there is a difference between the two but and I also think our expectations can bring resentment if they are unrealistic.

For me the important thing is to know and REMEMBER the possibilities of the future greatly exceded what my 'ickle mind can contemplate. Hopes and expectations lie within what we can concieve of which is only a fraction of what can happen. If we look at world events we see the same reflected, we concieve of terrorist attack but not one so great, then we concieve of terrorist attack that IS a disaster (our conceptions changed by events). But LIFE is bigger than what we concieve - who concieved of the Tsunami? or Katrina? Who concieved on that scale? And good surprises too, who would concieve of the level of aid raised for tsunami victims over the following months?

My life taught me that things beyond ANY conception can rapidly become real. Just as 'life' can conspire to through unlikely and deranged [email protected] at a person, sometimes life conspires to through something equally unlikely but utterly good. We just have to wait and see!

Expectations have a place in a personal life as much as they do in world events, they can help prepare us, give us comfort, and help guide how we need to grow - AS LONG AS we remember we cannot see the future until we get there, as long as we think carefully about what we expect.

From fellow humans I expect mistakes and I expect eventually I will be let down because I haven't a single close friend or person known for any length of time that I haven't let down at some point. I make mistakes so I expect others to do the same. I've reacted in anger and purposefully hurt people, even committed cruel acts, I have ignored suffering, and shown selfishness I find hard to explain and yet I've tried to do right as well, tried to learn, sometimes helped - so I couldn'texpect perfection of motive or deed from anyone else - nor do I expect them to only act for themselves.

I commit myself to learning because I believe it's our understanding that tempers our expectations - BUT I still know I have to WAIT to see the future.

As for hopes; I think to free the mind to wonder through positive and possible things without expectation is SO healthy, after all we often 'worry', we often let our minds wonder through bleak events not happened yet - just because they are possible.

I still hope to win the lottery - I still don't expect I ever will.

Edit - I would also add that I believe we have expectations we never become aware of until they are thwarted or exceded - then suddenly our sense of shock highlights the difference between all things we had expected and real life occurances.
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Old 09-07-2005, 04:03 PM
  # 36 (permalink)  
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I expect to receive my paycheck for the work I have done.
I hope that I still have a job on a daily basis.

I expect to have a rough day when I know what events lie ahead that will make it hard.
But I hope that my day will be good.

Most things I expect (like the above) are things that I cannot control but accept as my reality.
Alot of the things I hope for are things that I can only wish for.

My perception is that expectation is something that you feel is owed to you (like a paycheck or the acceptance of an upcoming bad day) and yet it is out of your control. But on the flip side of that - you can expect to be treated with respect. Again, you expect it because you are worth it and respect is owed to you but you can only hope that it will happen as you have no control over other people and not all situations. (Yea, I know, I probably confused you on that one).
However, my point is that I think it's different for each person. And I believe it's how you perceive it to be. Is it something you expect or something you hope for?

To sum it up:
For me, expect is something I demand
(not that I'll always get it)
but hope is something that I wish for
(though I may not always get that either).
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Old 09-07-2005, 05:00 PM
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Expectations bring disappointment usually,
Hope doesnt
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Old 09-07-2005, 05:10 PM
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Again, that would depend on how you perceive it. As I see the difference between expectations and hope, I'd have to disagree with what FOB just posted.

Gracey, I just think this is one of those things that each individual person has to reach on their own from their own understanding and personal outlook.
Hopefully that will come sooner for you than later.

(By the way, I haven't seen you posting here for awhile. But as always, it's a good thing to see you here!)
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