A Different Spin on Unconditional Love
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A Different Spin on Unconditional Love
Years and years ago when I was a Drama Criticism major I saw "The Iceman Cometh" by Eugene O'Neill, but nothing really registered because I didn't have the life experience at that time to realize how profound it is.
But I came across this review of the play, which may be more relevant for Catholics, but not necessarily--it speaks to co-dependency, and how unconditional love can backfire.
Here's an excerpt from the review:
It threw me for a loop--because as a child of the 60s I've always had a Beatles' "All You Need Is Love" mentality and i never even considered that the attitude might be toxic. But the article reminds of other archetypes: like Javert in Les Mis who kills himself because he can't reconcile Jean Valjean's mercy toward him.
So, in the end, it's not "the love you take is equal to the love you make," after all, because the recipient of the love may not know what to do with it. It makes me think that maybe you're not doing anyone any favors with unconditional love if it's not backed with love of self. Or maybe you can practice unconditional love for yourself, but what other people do with it is their own business.
Just a thought.
But I came across this review of the play, which may be more relevant for Catholics, but not necessarily--it speaks to co-dependency, and how unconditional love can backfire.
Here's an excerpt from the review:
Without giving away the ghastly details from the Iceman’s culminating Act 4, it’s possible to say that the play reaches its climax when Hickey reveals to his friends in the bar, as well as to himself, the absolutely decisive role that his saintly wife Evelyn has played in his life.
Like the Christian God, Evelyn loves and forgives Hickey unconditionally. Even when he treats her badly. Even when he cheats on her with prostitutes. Even when he picks up a venereal disease and passes it on to her. Even when he disappears for days and weeks at a time on drinking binges and then returns home a drunken slob. Even when he promises never to do it again, and then does it again anyway. Over and over and over.
Despite Hickey’s perennially broken promises and repeated failure to improve, Evelyn shows him nothing but “sweetness and love and pity and forgiveness.”
Catholicism teaches that Christ’s gratuitous love for humanity is the power that will redeem the world. O’Neill’s Catholic atheism, inspired by Nietzsche, teaches a very different lesson: that unearned unconditional love and forgiveness can curdle into toxic guilt and self-loathing. And that this self-hatred can rebound outward toward the source of that love in an act of almost demonic fury. “I…caught myself hating her for making me hate myself so much,” Hickey confesses about his Christ-like wife. “There’s a limit to the guilt you can feel and the forgiveness and the pity you can take!”
Like the Christian God, Evelyn loves and forgives Hickey unconditionally. Even when he treats her badly. Even when he cheats on her with prostitutes. Even when he picks up a venereal disease and passes it on to her. Even when he disappears for days and weeks at a time on drinking binges and then returns home a drunken slob. Even when he promises never to do it again, and then does it again anyway. Over and over and over.
Despite Hickey’s perennially broken promises and repeated failure to improve, Evelyn shows him nothing but “sweetness and love and pity and forgiveness.”
Catholicism teaches that Christ’s gratuitous love for humanity is the power that will redeem the world. O’Neill’s Catholic atheism, inspired by Nietzsche, teaches a very different lesson: that unearned unconditional love and forgiveness can curdle into toxic guilt and self-loathing. And that this self-hatred can rebound outward toward the source of that love in an act of almost demonic fury. “I…caught myself hating her for making me hate myself so much,” Hickey confesses about his Christ-like wife. “There’s a limit to the guilt you can feel and the forgiveness and the pity you can take!”
So, in the end, it's not "the love you take is equal to the love you make," after all, because the recipient of the love may not know what to do with it. It makes me think that maybe you're not doing anyone any favors with unconditional love if it's not backed with love of self. Or maybe you can practice unconditional love for yourself, but what other people do with it is their own business.
Just a thought.
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Solomio, thank you for sharing this I find it most thought provoking. It is late in the UK so I am going to remember this thread and re read again in the morning so I can take it in again but I just wanted to say thanks
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That is very interesting. I was a very much involved in theater in school and read much of O'Neil. I am Catholic and appreciate the reviewers analogy of the wife having "Christ like" unconditional love. I also think it's a sliiiiiight misconception of God's love. Love is no love that watches someone kill themselves. Gods unconditional love means that we are loved for who we are rather than what we have done. That does not mean that nothing is expected of us and that we will have no consequences for our actions. So, in many places in the Bible, Jesus warns pretty clearly about what is expected and what will happen if those expectations aren't met. The wife in Ice Man is not loving, she's Codie. She's not detaching with love, she turning a blind eye. Unfortunately, many religious people get that confused too and think that humility means being a door mat and not to judge means you have to shut up about the ugly drunken addiction truth staring you in the face. Sometimes Love is fierce, loud, protective, suffers no fools and takes no prisoners.
The guilt that A's take on from being forgiven, is the anger they feel at being "controlled" when you say no to them. It's the "pressure" they feel when they have to live a grown up life. It's the feeling of "being interrogated" when they have to be accountable. They are sick people. Their brains are like dirty pieces of cheesecloth. Anything that gets filtered through them will become corrupted no matter how loving.
The guilt that A's take on from being forgiven, is the anger they feel at being "controlled" when you say no to them. It's the "pressure" they feel when they have to live a grown up life. It's the feeling of "being interrogated" when they have to be accountable. They are sick people. Their brains are like dirty pieces of cheesecloth. Anything that gets filtered through them will become corrupted no matter how loving.
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I vaguely remember someone talking about this and differentiating between loving and forgiving someone, and "binding them to your soul with hoops of steel." The first being useful [to the forgiver] and the second being self sacrificing, and not in a good way.
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Originally Posted by Duckygirl1 
That is very interesting. I was a very much involved in theater in school and read much of O'Neil. I am Catholic and appreciate the reviewers analogy of the wife having "Christ like" unconditional love. I also think it's a sliiiiiight misconception of God's love. Love is no love that watches someone kill themselves. Gods unconditional love means that we are loved for who we are rather than what we have done. That does not mean that nothing is expected of us and that we will have no consequences for our actions. So, in many places in the Bible, Jesus warns pretty clearly about what is expected and what will happen if those expectations aren't met. The wife in Ice Man is not loving, she's Codie. She's not detaching with love, she turning a blind eye. Unfortunately, many religious people get that confused too and think that humility means being a door mat and not to judge means you have to shut up about the ugly drunken addiction truth staring you in the face. Sometimes Love is fierce, loud, protective, suffers no fools and takes no prisoners.
The guilt that A's take on from being forgiven, is the anger they feel at being "controlled" when you say no to them. It's the "pressure" they feel when they have to live a grown up life. It's the feeling of "being interrogated" when they have to be accountable. They are sick people. Their brains are like dirty pieces of cheesecloth. Anything that gets filtered through them will become corrupted no matter how loving.
The guilt that A's take on from being forgiven, is the anger they feel at being "controlled" when you say no to them. It's the "pressure" they feel when they have to live a grown up life. It's the feeling of "being interrogated" when they have to be accountable. They are sick people. Their brains are like dirty pieces of cheesecloth. Anything that gets filtered through them will become corrupted no matter how loving.
Even if the love is the "right kind"--true, unconditional love with no strings attached--I can also see how difficult it might be for the alcoholic to accept. I think you need to be able to feel you are worthy of the love, and deep down I think that's one of the problems of those who drink to fill that void. Addressing love that is offered means addressing the self-hate, which could lead to more self-hate, guilt and anger. I think that's why it's SO important for us to live our own lives in order to break the guilt/dependency/shame/love/anger cycle.
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Christ’s gratuitous love for humanity is the power that will redeem the world.
if I recall Jesus pitched a walleyed FIT in the temple and caused quite a scene....that wasn't his most "gratuitous love" moment. there are times when it is necessary to STAND UP against injustice and wrong doing.
He also said in the Sermon on the Mount that:
“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that[b] they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
in my interpretation, Jesus said Grow A Spine....take a stand, be yourself, get out from under your persecution and rise above.
if I recall Jesus pitched a walleyed FIT in the temple and caused quite a scene....that wasn't his most "gratuitous love" moment. there are times when it is necessary to STAND UP against injustice and wrong doing.
He also said in the Sermon on the Mount that:
“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that[b] they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
in my interpretation, Jesus said Grow A Spine....take a stand, be yourself, get out from under your persecution and rise above.
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Great thread...the longer I work my program...the more I understand what duckygirl said...and the review of the play...wow! very codependent...and I can see myself in that review...even if I have made progress...seems like have a long way to go.
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Through all of this, I personally think it is more loving to let go than to stay and try to love through it. How can anyone feel love if they aren't being authentic? Alcoholism is not authenticity. And we can stay as close to them as we'd like, be it Christ-like or demonic codie behavior, none of it is worth a lick unless the other person wants change, so until he/she does, staying just means pain. Self inflicted pain. And that's where self love trumps unconditional love towards another. In fact, the moment we have to put conditions, it is no longer unconditional. The farther we move away from the situation, the easier it will be to maintain love unconditionally....
Just my 2¢!
Just my 2¢!
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Originally Posted by LemonGirl
In fact, the moment we have to put conditions, it is no longer unconditional.
Just my 2¢!
Just my 2¢!
And unconditional love doesn't mean accepting unacceptable behavior unconditionally. Being an unconditional doormat isn't the point. It's loving the alcoholic as a child of God, with enough detachment to stay away from the snares and protect yourself as a child of God as well, with your own promise and calling in life, which has nothing to do with saving anyone.
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So, in the end, it's not "the love you take is equal to the love you make," after all, because the recipient of the love may not know what to do with it. It makes me think that maybe you're not doing anyone any favors with unconditional love if it's not backed with love of self. Or maybe you can practice unconditional love for yourself, but what other people do with it is their own business.
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