So is it consciously done or do we because of our issues fall into the pattern?

Being codependent. I suggest Alanon and reading "Codependent No More". We're the ones who pick alcoholics and despite being in a self-destructive relationship, decide to stay.

It's unconscious. We have low self-esteem and believe we don't deserve or can't have a happy, healthy relationship. Or it's what we learned in childhood, that what's normal is an unhealthy relationship. WHY doesn't matter or change anything. It's the steps we make to change our choices (like going to Alanon & working hard at recovery). It's hard because it means fighting denial and rationalization every step of the way.

One of my favorite movie lines: Louise to Thelma, "Thelma, you get what you settle for."

And do they consciously do it or is it what they know as well?

It's keeping you hooked but at arms length at the same time.

Well,I believe in free will; no one can keep me hooked without my permission. We make a choice to stay hooked or move on, although the latter choice, for this codependent, involves working with Alanon and cognitive therapy. Despite the belief that the person will change I understand my thinking is faulty, that by letting denial and rationalization rule my life I stay stuck in the same unhappiness. Instead of obsessing about someone else's screwed up thinking I look at my own stuff.

I've read that at the heart of all addiction -- including codependency -- is low self-esteem and after a lot of hard work, I agree. My choices were the result of lack of self love and self care.

I'm struggling with this very thing right now too. I keep saying I need more time, but yet I find my self still rearranging time, to make sure everyone else is happy. I haven't learned NO yet and I keep living off of "should". I Should do this, I should do that.. anything that keeps the guilt at a minimum is fair game.

I moved out and it's still not working. I wish I had an answer for you.

On a side note.. sometimes Hope confuses me. My Al-anon friends always say all you need is hope. But sometimes I wish I didn't have hope because I feel like it's what keeps me hooked. As someone else above said.. that magical thinking that makes you feel like the relationship will one day look how you always dreamed it would.

:15:

One of my favorite sayings from SR is "Hope is not a strategy, a goal is not a plan."

Hope allows us to see the light at the end of the tunnel. It does nothing to get us closer to the light. We have to make a plan - and we need strategies to stay on track.

If your 'light at the end of the tunnel' (ie hope) is not something you can work towards - it is simply a wish. Wanting another person to change, so that we get what we want, is a wish. Wishes are unattainable. It is OK to mourn that. I know I did.

We might hope for peaceful homes in which we can grow and love ourselves and those around us. We need a plan to get there and that plan might include walking away from a person or situation that destroys peace and love. If we want to stay on track with our plan we need strategies to get through the hard parts. We have to work for those - they don't just appear or come to us. We don't get what we deserve in life, we get what we work and plan for.

It's kind of like gambling.... people can sit for hours, just feeding slot machines, waiting for the intermittend reward. Rather insidious ... And some of those folks step over the line and actually need a 12 step program in order to deal with their gambling problems. Interesting parallel.

the day before you started this post, you queried the group whether you should let him family know your assessment of his condition AFTER YOU LEAVE. so where were you in that moment? future tripping to an event that is months away from possibly happening AND worried more about plans to look out for HIS welfare than your own.

you were not IN you. you were out there in future you, worried about past him and what you could do to HELP.

we are only strong when we are CENTERED within ourselves....in our own minds, our bodies, connected to our own souls.

Oh yea, I relate to the chicken. A good image to keep as I deal with denial and rationalization.

I cannot be certain for others but I think I picked certain types of men based on several criteria...they had to be very bright, entertaining, charismatic but also vulnerable and needy (the A fit this to a T) and of course had to be crazy about me as well. Most were pretty hot looking too and I don't get that except dear old dad was a handsome devil and maybe that is where that came in. My father was emotionally unavailable and abusive and as a child I obsessed over how I could fix my family situation and as a powerless child I could not.

I think I wanted to recreate my childhood but in this new scenario I remake the ending and of course it is fairy tale and the love I never experienced as a child is replaced by Prince Charming.

It was a pretty screwed up unconscious attempt to heal a fractured child that completely backfired...but hey, had it not happened I may never have found true healing and met all of you!