involved

Thanks CookiesnCream. I will check out the book. I do not blame him for my unhappiness but do take things personally sometimes....lots of times. It feels like a viscious circle sometimes! I second guess myself a lot. His crap is just that...His crap!but that being said... There is plenty I need to change about my own character defects.

mnh1982

The only thing I've ever done that was beneficial to me was to refuse to engage him in ANY conversation when he's drunk. Zero. Because to engage in a conversation with him while he's drunk just denies my feelings & my stress. It may sound horrid to say that I wouldn't even talk to him in small talk or about superficial things, but my husband has a tendency to deny that he's been drinking (ooh big surprise there, right?) or is drunk, & that makes me FURIOUS immediately. So it's not like I can even engage him on a level playing field, because I'm just so angry. And I certainly can't engage him on the actual topic of his drinking WHILE he's drunk because like you said, it's like talking to a lopsided wall wearing sweatpants...

involved

Mnh...thanks. I do not engage any serious conversation or really have much to do with him when he is active. He can go either way when he is drinking...chatty cathy or guilty, sad, sorry, angry at himself,I will be a better man for both of us....bla blah blah. I have learned not to put either one of us thru that promises he cant keep heartache. This seems to have helped his denial and trust of me....meaning when I hear the thick tongue and ask "are you drinking" he sometimes says yes and sometimes makes me ask twice...but always admits it. And thats the end of that. That is his battle and I accept that. And I only ask so that I know who I am dealing with and not to persecute...

firebolt

Just sending you (((HUGS))) - I know the down days all too well, and hope tomorrow is better for you!

involved

Thanks firebolt...I needed that ((hugs))

fluffyflea

Ha ha ha ha ha ha........

NO time is ever a good time.

Good luck, my sympathies.

dandylion

involved....how long do you think you will be able to live with this....?

dandylin

involved

Best answer? Until I know I can't....and what I have learned from this site and from my own experience...I will know when I get to that point.

I was in an al anon meeting one night and the group was tossing around for a topic, when this same topic I brought up was asked. I dont know if the group didnt understand what the woman was bringing up or if no one had anything to offer, or we couldnt find anything in "The Courage to Change"...so they moved on. I was hoping at that point to get enlightened.

mnh1982

Involved, yes-precisely. I've had to learn the hard way that to allow his denial means he feels as if he's "getting away with" something. So as long as I ask him EVERY SINGLE TIME and force that acknowledgement EVERY SINGLE TIME, he has to be reminded that I'm just plain not that unobservant/dumb...

dandylion

Involved....I must admit that I'm a bit lost as to exactly which question you mean...Is it "when is a good time to talk to an alcoholic?" or is it..."how not to feel personally hurt by the mean things that they say?"....

dandylion

Eauchiche

I too have done considerable soul searching, wondering what has held us together all this time. Within 6 months, my mate has turned nasty and absent,

We had some excellent conversations and good times. In retrospect, I was drinking too, and things looked okay when we were both in the rabbit hole.

involved

Dandylion
When/how to have talk to an alcoholic...
I think she was getting the same brick wall and maybe feeling he same lost sad is it somehow my fault feelings.
Its not just the mean things...I get that that is a diversion to side track me or stop me from talking...but its the brick wall and emotions that come out of him.

Jane11

Involved, sorry you are hurting and confused by him, it sucks doesn't it (understatement)!

From my experience no time was a good time and any time was a bad time to talk about anything with my axbf. Whether he was drunk or sober (dry drunk) I couldn't talk to him about anything because he was so selfish and self absorbed. He always had to be right, I should agree with his opinion and if I didn't or even if I did but still wanted to discuss something further it would almost always end in an argument and of course I would be wrong or I would get upset about how he shouted me down or the things he said and I would be the 'crazy' one or the one who started an argument. No my friend, it's just called a conversation or discussion- adults do it, often actually!

If he was happy we could talk on a semi good level but if he was anxious, depressed, jealous, any kind of emotion which he often was everything would turn into an argument and I walked on eggshells to not create any arguments and keep everything sweet- that's not a way to live.

Two adults who are in a relationship should be able to be open and talk and discuss pretty much anything, at least IMO anyway. But sadly with alcoholics or recovering alcoholics it seems like an impossible task.

Occasionally he opened up to me, and often he was sorry about how he handled situations- but isn't sorry an action as well as a word, yet he repeated the same silent treatment or aggressive outburst strategy again and again and again. It was futile.

I'm sorry I can't actually give you any answer to your question, just an example of what I encountered, and I'm really sorry for your situation. The brick wall and emotions are like others have said a defence or deflection technique and HE needs to see that and understand it if he has any hope of being able to communicate on a 'normal' level with other people, but it's hard not to take this stuff personally.

Not that you should have to but have you tried a softly softly approach, starting to talk about something and then stopping the conversation or agreeing to come back to it after a little break from it if things start to reach a point of not being productive, or maybe trying to discuss things whilst you are doing simple tasks like cooking together so it feels less like a serious discussion and more like just trying to open lines of communication about things?

I'm sorry I really don't know what to suggest, you deserve to be able to talk freely and express yourself.

involved

Thank you for shareing that Jane11 ... I certainly do identify, and that helps.

LexieCat

Involved,

I went back and read your old threads. This is the guy who was physically, verbally, and sexually abusive, right? And he's still drinking? And you are trying to figure out how to "communicate" better with him?

I'm betting that his behavior toward you hasn't improved at all, has it? I'd strongly suggest that rather than working on your "communication" skills, you contact the domestic violence hotline or your local shelter and talk with an advocate. If you are going to continue to live with this guy, you need a safety plan, because lack of communication is the least of the problems you should be concerned about.

Abusers don't care about your feelings. You can try to please him till the cows come home, and when you look at him the wrong way (according to him) you could be in serious danger.

Eileen01

Hey Sweet Pea, I can't help you sort this out but I do agree with the others who have learned to stick to light weight topics like the weather. I've learned to not attempt nor expect any serious conversations with my AH.

While it's not something I'd wish for any relatsioship it sure beats the need of my going on an apology for him! It has helped to reduce lots of his drama which makes for a far more harmonious and civil mood in our home.


Sadly, I've learned you can't have a normal conversation with someone who is actively impaired by substance abuse.

((((hugs)))

auroraxborealis

My X and would talk for hours before his relapse. Once he started changing (I didn't know he was using until much later) all of a sudden I had an "attitude." I never had that when he was sober.

NWGRITS

If he "still drinks occasionally" then he's got you fooled into thinking he's in recovery. That's not recovery. He's an actively drinking alcoholic. He can go to all the AA meetings and volunteer all he wants, but that does not automatically put him in the recovery category. Going to AA doesn't make a person sober any more than standing in your garage makes you a car. Plenty of active As go to meetings. He's not in recovery. So, how much of this are you willing to take? Alcoholism is progressive and the bottom is going to fall out eventually. Are you willing to accept this just to stay in a relationship? You're not married, and there are plenty sober, non-abusive men out there.

cookiesncream

Just to add to NWGRITS. When I went through outpatient rehab there was one person who in all of their years of so called "recovery" fessed up that their s/o thought they were going to AA meetings but they were actually getting their "fix." From my perspective as the RAW what you're wanting really beyond the cessation of drinking (which he has not done) is self actualization which is what I consider Al-Anon to be. Owning up to your side of the problems, working on personal growth, admitting your flaws and working on fixing them all count. Honestly I stopped drinking a year ago but its only now where I have "thought through the drink" (looking at why I was drinking and then didn't drink) and found new things (recovery group and just took up knitting) that I think I'm finally at the second stage of recovery. For me this is looking into all of the unhealthy patterns in my marriage, seeing what I have done to foster them, and figure out what I plan on doing to change my share of the issues. Until or unless he stops drinking completely the only thing you can do is look into yourself. I'm married to a self identified codie which I didn't realize until a month ago as to how his patterns were affecting ME. I can't stop his being a codie but I sure as heck can change my reactions to his behavior, call him on it, and stop reacting the way I always did which was detach or get in a fruitless fight because honestly he didn't want to stop being a codie.

Not sure this is helpful but more of my 58 cents to you as food for thought.

Peace,

Cookies