Picking and choosing rules in rehab
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Picking and choosing rules in rehab
Long time, no post. Things have been quiet here, busy, but uneventful. My A is coming up on 7 months sober, still attending his nightly (5 hr) IOP program 5 days a week and hitting meetings on the weekend. Woohoo!
But, (there's always a "but", huh?) I find myself annoyed at his attitude toward the rules. If he can't follow the basic punishable-by-expulsion rules then what is he gonna be like when he is no longer accountable for his honesty and actions to a counselor?
Let me be more specific: the rules of the program are that under NO circumstances are patients allowed to be in the presence of alcohol or drugs at any time during their treatment. This is rigorously enforced, and includes holidays (at Chirstmas time, addicts were not allowed to attend holiday parties or family dinners if there would be wine, etc, and told to spend it alone or at a meeting.), their home environment, vacations, etc.
My A seems to think he is above this rule. He has never once told his wine-drinking family that he can't come to dinner if they have alcohol. He has ordered drinks for me at restaurants, and most annoyingly, he continues to attend this poker game at night during which half the table gets wasted. His claim? I make more money when they drink! My claim: rules are rules.
I am so annoyed at this blatant disregard for the rules. It has been going on for months! And, when confronted, he says it --alcohol--just "doesn't bother him" to be around so he doesn't like to make a big deal. But if he KNOWS that we aren't even allowed to have DayQuil in our home, why did he not ask me to pour it out when he saw it on my nightstand during a cold? Why would he not ask his family not to drink so he could spend easter with them? And WHY does he stay out until he sun comes up with his drinking buddies?
I know it's not my problem to solve, but it feels like a super strong indicator of what his behavior will be like after rehab. And, as they say, if you hang around at a barber shop, you're gonna get a haircut eventually. And my point is that I am concerned and don't know how to make that clear.
I just wish for once he would say, I would love to come to XYZ, but I can't if you're gonna have alcohol there. I'm in early recovery from alcoholism, and it's not worth the risk. Maybe one day it will be less of a risk for my sobriety, but today it's not.
But, (there's always a "but", huh?) I find myself annoyed at his attitude toward the rules. If he can't follow the basic punishable-by-expulsion rules then what is he gonna be like when he is no longer accountable for his honesty and actions to a counselor?
Let me be more specific: the rules of the program are that under NO circumstances are patients allowed to be in the presence of alcohol or drugs at any time during their treatment. This is rigorously enforced, and includes holidays (at Chirstmas time, addicts were not allowed to attend holiday parties or family dinners if there would be wine, etc, and told to spend it alone or at a meeting.), their home environment, vacations, etc.
My A seems to think he is above this rule. He has never once told his wine-drinking family that he can't come to dinner if they have alcohol. He has ordered drinks for me at restaurants, and most annoyingly, he continues to attend this poker game at night during which half the table gets wasted. His claim? I make more money when they drink! My claim: rules are rules.
I am so annoyed at this blatant disregard for the rules. It has been going on for months! And, when confronted, he says it --alcohol--just "doesn't bother him" to be around so he doesn't like to make a big deal. But if he KNOWS that we aren't even allowed to have DayQuil in our home, why did he not ask me to pour it out when he saw it on my nightstand during a cold? Why would he not ask his family not to drink so he could spend easter with them? And WHY does he stay out until he sun comes up with his drinking buddies?
I know it's not my problem to solve, but it feels like a super strong indicator of what his behavior will be like after rehab. And, as they say, if you hang around at a barber shop, you're gonna get a haircut eventually. And my point is that I am concerned and don't know how to make that clear.
I just wish for once he would say, I would love to come to XYZ, but I can't if you're gonna have alcohol there. I'm in early recovery from alcoholism, and it's not worth the risk. Maybe one day it will be less of a risk for my sobriety, but today it's not.
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My AH was in outpatient rehab, following his inpatient rehab stay, when he first relapsed post-rehab. He was super humble straight out of inpatient and then slowly developed an attitude about some of the outpatient rehab stuff. From what I gathered from him, was that there were a lot of people in outpatient that were ordered to be there against their will and they were not playing along like they were supposed to and it became easier for him to think "if they aren't following the program then why do I have to follow the program" and he totally took his eye off the prize.
I didn't do anything about it and I don't regret that. There wasn't anything I could have done about it that would have been effective. His program was his to manage and learn from however that came about (he relapsed and had to confess that to the group and that humbled him back down a little bit too). Likewise, your husband's program is his. If he is going to play with fire, there is a chance that he's going to get burned. You cannot prevent him from making stupid choices, even if they are glaringly, in your face blatantly stupid, he needs to figure that out on his own so he can learn that he's making stupid choices. Otherwise you're the party pooper/hall monitor.
All of that said, I'm so sorry that he isn't doing exactly what is asked of him. From where I sit, reading what you wrote and from my own experience with my AH doing the same stuff, it seems really simple - but we're not alcoholics trying to test the boundaries.
I didn't do anything about it and I don't regret that. There wasn't anything I could have done about it that would have been effective. His program was his to manage and learn from however that came about (he relapsed and had to confess that to the group and that humbled him back down a little bit too). Likewise, your husband's program is his. If he is going to play with fire, there is a chance that he's going to get burned. You cannot prevent him from making stupid choices, even if they are glaringly, in your face blatantly stupid, he needs to figure that out on his own so he can learn that he's making stupid choices. Otherwise you're the party pooper/hall monitor.
All of that said, I'm so sorry that he isn't doing exactly what is asked of him. From where I sit, reading what you wrote and from my own experience with my AH doing the same stuff, it seems really simple - but we're not alcoholics trying to test the boundaries.
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Why do you have him ordering you drinks?
His behavior is not uncommon at all. Irritating as all get out, but common. My xabf couldn't follow the rules of his rehab to save his life. Hardly anyone there can. They had/have a system where they bring in contraband by dropping it in the garbage cans in the back yard then climbing out of the window to retrieve it at night before the garbage truck comes in the morning. I'm talking like, a pack of cigs maybe. They give each other "points" to gain privileges. Such as 5 points from a friend for helping with the dishes costs you a vile of vape oil, but gains you 30 extra min of furlow. Yeah. They're gonna be ready for the real world alrighty.
In his head if there was a rule, it didn't really apply to him. A's are so use to lying, charming and manipulating its just a part of who they are. He always thought he was smarter than the average bear. My ex actually said to me, " you're never going to get anywhere in life following the rules" course I'm at home and he's in rehab soooooooo. . . They're more like rebellious teens than adults. It's all a game that they eventually lose and drag us down with them. Being ok to hangout with drinkers overconfidently will turn into having one drink overconfidently and the rest is a quick slide down the slippery slope.
His behavior is not uncommon at all. Irritating as all get out, but common. My xabf couldn't follow the rules of his rehab to save his life. Hardly anyone there can. They had/have a system where they bring in contraband by dropping it in the garbage cans in the back yard then climbing out of the window to retrieve it at night before the garbage truck comes in the morning. I'm talking like, a pack of cigs maybe. They give each other "points" to gain privileges. Such as 5 points from a friend for helping with the dishes costs you a vile of vape oil, but gains you 30 extra min of furlow. Yeah. They're gonna be ready for the real world alrighty.
In his head if there was a rule, it didn't really apply to him. A's are so use to lying, charming and manipulating its just a part of who they are. He always thought he was smarter than the average bear. My ex actually said to me, " you're never going to get anywhere in life following the rules" course I'm at home and he's in rehab soooooooo. . . They're more like rebellious teens than adults. It's all a game that they eventually lose and drag us down with them. Being ok to hangout with drinkers overconfidently will turn into having one drink overconfidently and the rest is a quick slide down the slippery slope.
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It is entirely up to him whether he follows the rules or not. Unfortunately you'll also be affected if he drinks again, but we're still powerless over someone else's alcoholism. Have you tried Alanon? It helps to stop projecting, since no one can predict what will happen. It saved my sanity by helping me to stop obsessing about the alcoholic and deal with my own issues.
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Whoa whoa whoa! I do NOT have him ordering me drinks. As per the rules of his rehab, I am not even ALLOWED to drink around him. He insists that it isn't a big deal, and has, on occasion, ordered for me on my behalf, or encouraged me to have a drink during celebratory situations. (For what it's worth, in my own experience it matters little whether or not I have a drink with dinner in his company--if he wants to drink, he will drink regardless of my choices. But the rules are there for a reason at his recovery center, and despite what *I* think, they are important for him to follow.)
I guess my post was intended less to ask for advice on how to control him (Ha! As if!) and more to do with my own concerns about where the dishonesty leads to and fears for the future. In other words, it was a vent. Beyond expressing to him my concerns, I know that I cannot force him to behave the way I want him to. I'm well versed in that knowledge these days, trust me. But that doesn't really take away my annoyance with the situation and my desire as his partner to discuss my concerns and fears.
I guess I was wondering also how I should approach my A with these concerns and have him hear me. I do think communication is important between us regarding each other's fears, and want to feel less like the Sobriety Police and more like a concerned loved one when I talk to him about this. Previous talks did not go over well.
I guess my post was intended less to ask for advice on how to control him (Ha! As if!) and more to do with my own concerns about where the dishonesty leads to and fears for the future. In other words, it was a vent. Beyond expressing to him my concerns, I know that I cannot force him to behave the way I want him to. I'm well versed in that knowledge these days, trust me. But that doesn't really take away my annoyance with the situation and my desire as his partner to discuss my concerns and fears.
I guess I was wondering also how I should approach my A with these concerns and have him hear me. I do think communication is important between us regarding each other's fears, and want to feel less like the Sobriety Police and more like a concerned loved one when I talk to him about this. Previous talks did not go over well.
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dandylion, you're exactly right. I truly believe that if he can't turn off his own free will, follow the rules, take advice, and just work the program, that this can't possibly last. If he is flirting with fire now, what happens when he is no longer accountable to his IOP? Seems like a slippery slope. The people who seem to have the most success with the program are the ones who don't think they are above the rules. Ya know?
EDIT: aaaaand, I see the future-tripping super clear when I re-read this. Gah. Lot's to learn still....
EDIT: aaaaand, I see the future-tripping super clear when I re-read this. Gah. Lot's to learn still....
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Jeni...you may be absolutely right on about this. The sticky wicket is this...you are just about the last person that he is going to listen to about this. Trust me..he already knows exactly where you stand o n this. He is still going to do what he is going to do.
The old addage: "give them enough rope, and they will hang themselves".
Sometimes (a lot of times), the only way people will learn is in the school of experience.
dandylion
The old addage: "give them enough rope, and they will hang themselves".
Sometimes (a lot of times), the only way people will learn is in the school of experience.
dandylion
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Given the fact that he has been doing this for 7 months now kind of makes him following the rule to stay away from booze pointless. I think the rule is dumb. How is he supposed to learn to function normally if he has to hide away and isolate himself? Asking everybody to accommodate him is wrong. He sounds like he is doing well. Leave it be.
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Happy, it's completely moot what the rule is. It could be only wearing blue socks for the entirely of his treatment. It's the fact that he is unwilling to follow it because "he knows better" "it doesn't affect him" "he's above that rule". It's the ego. It's Step 2 101.
In the weekly family sessions, we talk about this rule All. The. Time. And why it's important. Of course his program director knows that he can't avoid alcohol forever, but he is adamant that during the length of his treatment, all patients avoid it. And that by asking others to accommodate him, he gets a good indication of the people he should be hanging out with in sobriety, AND he learns how to decline invitations to high-risk situations.
But, again, while the rule may be a great teacher, it in itself is irrelevant. It's the blatant rule-breaking and lying to cover for his behavior that is the obvious problem.
In the weekly family sessions, we talk about this rule All. The. Time. And why it's important. Of course his program director knows that he can't avoid alcohol forever, but he is adamant that during the length of his treatment, all patients avoid it. And that by asking others to accommodate him, he gets a good indication of the people he should be hanging out with in sobriety, AND he learns how to decline invitations to high-risk situations.
But, again, while the rule may be a great teacher, it in itself is irrelevant. It's the blatant rule-breaking and lying to cover for his behavior that is the obvious problem.
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It is his recovery and I think you should get your hands off it and this is why:
You are afraid he'll relapse. I get that. This is your fear to work through in your recovery.
If you have a discussion and he begins to abide the rule to appease your fears - that is not going to change the trajectory of his recovery, it will simply be one thing you can check off your list and will probably be replaced by another because there is no limits to the things that can create fear of a relapse.
The only recovery you can work is your own.
You are afraid he'll relapse. I get that. This is your fear to work through in your recovery.
If you have a discussion and he begins to abide the rule to appease your fears - that is not going to change the trajectory of his recovery, it will simply be one thing you can check off your list and will probably be replaced by another because there is no limits to the things that can create fear of a relapse.
The only recovery you can work is your own.
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I know how hard it is to let go of the fear of relapse, but I 100% agree with thumper.
As a total aside, it's interesting to see how different the treatment program's can be. 7 months of all family and friends having to change their behaviour...how long does the facility say this goes on for?
My rah is 6 months sober, and his rehab take almost the completely opposite stand! Then again. They're not aa based, nor do they think aa suits everyone.
Goes to show no one size fits all!!
As a total aside, it's interesting to see how different the treatment program's can be. 7 months of all family and friends having to change their behaviour...how long does the facility say this goes on for?
My rah is 6 months sober, and his rehab take almost the completely opposite stand! Then again. They're not aa based, nor do they think aa suits everyone.
Goes to show no one size fits all!!
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Originally Posted by Jenibean87 
dandylion, you're exactly right. I truly believe that if he can't turn off his own free will, follow the rules, take advice, and just work the program, that this can't possibly last. If he is flirting with fire now, what happens when he is no longer accountable to his IOP? Seems like a slippery slope. The people who seem to have the most success with the program are the ones who don't think they are above the rules. Ya know?
EDIT: aaaaand, I see the future-tripping super clear when I re-read this. Gah. Lot's to learn still....
EDIT: aaaaand, I see the future-tripping super clear when I re-read this. Gah. Lot's to learn still....
I would prefer my husband face normal situations like a family event, or a gathering of friends, try to process it on his own and be able to discuss it with his rehab doctors, get feedback to help build up his resilience. Later on those people wont be there, and these situations will happen.
I think communication is huge however. I think just be honest with your feelings but dont try to put them on him as a burden. He has to decide what rules help him, and which ones dont. If he has a problem due to breaking the rule, then he will have to accept it of course.
For me, I think my concern and worry would be driven by my own fears, and that part would belong to me to resolve internally for the most part.
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Jarp, the program he is in doesn't have a set time-line. They all work at their own pace, completing step work for 1-5, and then aftercare is a one-day a week thing for the next two years. It's 5 days a week for several hours and mandatory AA meetings on the weekends with the group. It has great reviews and a relatively high success rate because of the extended time. He has been with them since day 2 of sobriety, this time around. His director is super passionate about the program he created and awesome for the families. We're super happy with it.
I didn't mean to stir up controversy over whether or not alcohol-presence should be avoided. And, honestly, that's not really the point of my post. But I recognize it's a point that people can get stuck on. The program has the rule for a reason, and that's really just the bottom line.
However, I do hear what the responses are regarding working my own recovery instead of messing with his. I wasn't sure that this issue was necessarily under that umbrella, but I can see how it is. It's a tough line between having a conversation about fears/concerns between a couple and full-on meddling. I was trying to figure out a way to stay on the healthy side of that line. Looks like you guys think that's not really possible?
I didn't mean to stir up controversy over whether or not alcohol-presence should be avoided. And, honestly, that's not really the point of my post. But I recognize it's a point that people can get stuck on. The program has the rule for a reason, and that's really just the bottom line.
However, I do hear what the responses are regarding working my own recovery instead of messing with his. I wasn't sure that this issue was necessarily under that umbrella, but I can see how it is. It's a tough line between having a conversation about fears/concerns between a couple and full-on meddling. I was trying to figure out a way to stay on the healthy side of that line. Looks like you guys think that's not really possible?
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"Fears and concerns" around the possibility of his relapsing are probably best handled in the context of an Al-Anon meeting, or here. Discussing it with him is likely to be counterproductive for both of you. If he picks up, you'll know it soon enough. There's nothing about having discussions with him that will allow you to head it off at the pass. He's likely to resent it.
As far as your concerns about his disregard of the "not to be around alcohol" rule, I think the rule is a little silly, personally (I'm six years sober). It's not a great idea for most alcoholics in early sobriety to spend time in places where drinking is the main activity (bars, etc.) but being around it at a holiday meal isn't that big a problem for most people I've known. Avoiding it altogether, to the degree prescribed by the rehab, isn't likely to significantly increase his chances of staying sober. I'm not suggesting that it isn't problematic for him to assume the rules don't apply to him, but I also understand the urge to break rules that make little sense. I wouldn't give his ignoring that rule my blessing, but at the same time I don't think it's necessarily an indicator that he isn't taking his recovery seriously. He's seven months sober--he's obviously doing a lot of things right.
As far as your concerns about his disregard of the "not to be around alcohol" rule, I think the rule is a little silly, personally (I'm six years sober). It's not a great idea for most alcoholics in early sobriety to spend time in places where drinking is the main activity (bars, etc.) but being around it at a holiday meal isn't that big a problem for most people I've known. Avoiding it altogether, to the degree prescribed by the rehab, isn't likely to significantly increase his chances of staying sober. I'm not suggesting that it isn't problematic for him to assume the rules don't apply to him, but I also understand the urge to break rules that make little sense. I wouldn't give his ignoring that rule my blessing, but at the same time I don't think it's necessarily an indicator that he isn't taking his recovery seriously. He's seven months sober--he's obviously doing a lot of things right.
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If you have spoken to him about it already than there is nothing left to be said. It would merely be nagging. However, if you haven't sat down with him and said how you feel than by all means do. Just don't have any expectations
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The reason he has a problem with rules is that typically we alkies have a problem with wanting to be in control.
This doesn't sound like something that is only because a rehab is AA based. As a matter of fact, in the chapter Working With Others in the Big Book it states that we will not avoid alcohol.
Originally Posted by jarp
My rah is 6 months sober, and his rehab take almost the completely opposite stand! Then again. They're not aa based, nor do they think aa suits everyone.
Goes to show no one size fits all!!
Goes to show no one size fits all!!
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Originally Posted by Jenibean87
Jarp, the program he is in doesn't have a set time-line. They all work at their own pace, completing step work for 1-5, and then aftercare is a one-day a week thing for the next two years. It's 5 days a week for several hours and mandatory AA meetings on the weekends with the group. It has great reviews and a relatively high success rate because of the extended time. He has been with them since day 2 of sobriety, this time around. His director is super passionate about the program he created and awesome for the families. We're super happy with it.
I didn't mean to stir up controversy over whether or not alcohol-presence should be avoided. And, honestly, that's not really the point of my post. But I recognize it's a point that people can get stuck on. The program has the rule for a reason, and that's really just the bottom line.
However, I do hear what the responses are regarding working my own recovery instead of messing with his. I wasn't sure that this issue was necessarily under that umbrella, but I can see how it is. It's a tough line between having a conversation about fears/concerns between a couple and full-on meddling. I was trying to figure out a way to stay on the healthy side of that line. Looks like you guys think that's not really possible?
I didn't mean to stir up controversy over whether or not alcohol-presence should be avoided. And, honestly, that's not really the point of my post. But I recognize it's a point that people can get stuck on. The program has the rule for a reason, and that's really just the bottom line.
However, I do hear what the responses are regarding working my own recovery instead of messing with his. I wasn't sure that this issue was necessarily under that umbrella, but I can see how it is. It's a tough line between having a conversation about fears/concerns between a couple and full-on meddling. I was trying to figure out a way to stay on the healthy side of that line. Looks like you guys think that's not really possible?
I think its best to have open communication, so Im wondering have you actually talked about his feelings in relation to the rules, and why he doesnt care to abide by them. Does he have a logic, thought process, disagrees with these concepts but appreciates the overall program? It sounds like hes dedicated because hes been at it a while, so Im thinking maybe if you understood his thoughts then it would bring it full circle for you, resolve some of your own fears. My husband and I talk a lot, we have had a similar situation where his addiction doctor gave him a suggestion and he decided not to follow it. His doctor was fine with it and it was talked out with an alternative plan developed. I was able to voice my questions and concern but didnt try to manipulate, just stated my thoughts as honestly as I could. His choice is riskier and scared me, but I understood his decision and respect his choice, so the internal fears I have, then I must rely on my own coping skills to keep in check, and in time this fear has diminished because so far he seems to have made the best choice for himself and things are going well.
I know some rehabs and some recovery philosophies will try to make a person submissive to their rules regardless of what the rules are, or whether or not the rules have any merit towards ones goal of achieving recovery. There is a belief they need to submit their will and obey. Period. I personally dont like these rehabs and happy my husband didnt go to one like this.
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but your husband's place of employment had him under scrutiny, and they assigned him a sober coach who spent a lot of time WITH him, monitoring his behaviors, keeping him out of trouble, so he DID have to comply to rules and regs, whether IN treatment or after.......
as it is, he STILL balks at some of the rules.
it should be noted those RULES that are "inflicted" upon addicts seeking recovery are not punitive but to help them learn how to live life on life's TERMS, and to learn that the rules that the rest of us play by DO apply to them as well. addicts have problems with that!
as it is, he STILL balks at some of the rules.
it should be noted those RULES that are "inflicted" upon addicts seeking recovery are not punitive but to help them learn how to live life on life's TERMS, and to learn that the rules that the rest of us play by DO apply to them as well. addicts have problems with that!
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
but your husband's place of employment had him under scrutiny, and they assigned him a sober coach who spent a lot of time WITH him, monitoring his behaviors, keeping him out of trouble, so he DID have to comply to rules and regs, whether IN treatment or after.......
as it is, he STILL balks at some of the rules.
it should be noted those RULES that are "inflicted" upon addicts seeking recovery are not punitive but to help them learn how to live life on life's TERMS, and to learn that the rules that the rest of us play by DO apply to them as well. addicts have problems with that!
as it is, he STILL balks at some of the rules.
it should be noted those RULES that are "inflicted" upon addicts seeking recovery are not punitive but to help them learn how to live life on life's TERMS, and to learn that the rules that the rest of us play by DO apply to them as well. addicts have problems with that!
His work hired a sober adviser who is available 24/7 should my husband want to call upon him. Hes a licensed therapist trained in cbt and other behavioral therapies. My husband went to a non 12 step rehab. His duty is to let the employer know if my husband is using, so per the employer he can ask my husband to take a drug test through his addiction doc or a clinic. They did this because they didnt want to just subject him to random testing. The SA is skilled to enough to test only if he has concerns.
My husbands employer did ask my H to meet with him on a regular basis, right now its once a week. They have lunch, have gone to a couple ballgames during work hours.
MY husband and him have a weird relationship, he taunts him at times but I think he actually respects him. Its hard to explain in short order.
But sure employers can request a drug test as part of employment. . They need to know people are not under the influence making major decisions that affect the whole business structure. My husband could have opted to take tests on a regular basis instead, but he didnt like that option any better trust me!. His boss really thinks hes being supportive with the paid SA option. I think they are too, and I like the guy ok, hes pretty cool.
Anyway, enough of my situation please. Only wanted to clarify.
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