Narcissist and Psychopaths: What living with them does to you
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Narcissist and Psychopaths: What living with them does to you
I have found a website that discussed what happens to us, including emotionally and the changes in our brain chemistry that drives our perceptions, when we are in a relationship with a narcissist or psychopath.
It is quite stunning. Just google Neuro Instincts and you'll pull up the site with blogs, articles, and videos.
One of the articles, "Romantic Love and the Survivor of An Abusive Relationship" talks about this. For example, when we fall in love, whether it be with a "normal" person or a psychopath/narcissist, our brain chemistry changes and is less influenced by the part of our brain that is rational. We see our lover through that rose colored lens, and even later, when the narcissist/psychopath is behaving in a destructive manner, there is a neuro-pathway in our brains that leads us back to that initial bonding of love. So even though we may know better, there are chemical brain changes that make us want to believe that our initial perception of this person as loving and caring is still true.
There are ways to recover from this, and the site goes into them. It does validate for us, as survivors of relationships with destructive people, that there are physiological obstacles to overcome as we recover. And that helps us understand why it is not as easy to move on as the people telling us "Just forget him - just get over it" think it is.
It is a realistic, science based site that validates how we feel and who we've become from our immersion in abuse, and gives us ways to recover.
ShootingStar1
It is quite stunning. Just google Neuro Instincts and you'll pull up the site with blogs, articles, and videos.
One of the articles, "Romantic Love and the Survivor of An Abusive Relationship" talks about this. For example, when we fall in love, whether it be with a "normal" person or a psychopath/narcissist, our brain chemistry changes and is less influenced by the part of our brain that is rational. We see our lover through that rose colored lens, and even later, when the narcissist/psychopath is behaving in a destructive manner, there is a neuro-pathway in our brains that leads us back to that initial bonding of love. So even though we may know better, there are chemical brain changes that make us want to believe that our initial perception of this person as loving and caring is still true.
There are ways to recover from this, and the site goes into them. It does validate for us, as survivors of relationships with destructive people, that there are physiological obstacles to overcome as we recover. And that helps us understand why it is not as easy to move on as the people telling us "Just forget him - just get over it" think it is.
It is a realistic, science based site that validates how we feel and who we've become from our immersion in abuse, and gives us ways to recover.
ShootingStar1
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Yes, I agree that it can help to know that there is biology behind our relationship behaviors.
I have never, ever, said to anyone these words: "Just get over it".
Now, I have said, at times..."You need to remove yourself from a destructive relationship"...but, I never said that it was easy to do....
Just saying......
dandylion
***thanks for the info!!
I have never, ever, said to anyone these words: "Just get over it".
Now, I have said, at times..."You need to remove yourself from a destructive relationship"...but, I never said that it was easy to do....
Just saying......
dandylion
***thanks for the info!!
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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This is an interesting topic for me, something I've recently thought and read about quite a bit. I won't comment on psychopaths because I have no experience. But people with narcissistic tendencies, yes. I think it depends on the combination of the two involved, and their individual mental health state. My father definitely has strong narcissistic streaks, but as far as my experience goes, he's never moved to the unhealthy/destructive/dangerous zones with it. But I could certainly see, growing up with him, that some people just could not tolerate some of his behaviors, and a few very intensely so, including family members. My observation was mainly that people who had a lot of insecurities themselves and not much independence, were primarily the ones that had problems with him. My mother was actually one, unfortunately. I, on the other hand, almost always got along great with him -- we really get each-other. His need for attention never bothered me much, nor his frequent making up stories to put himself in a more flattering light. I think I could always see through it, even as a young kid, and I viewed him more as a person with a vivid and colorful fantasy life rather than a liar. Well, except when he tried to lie to other about me as well, to show off -- that sometimes sparked intense arguments between us. Also the fact that he always surrounded himself with lots of people who often frequented our home...most of them interesting and great people, just too much for me... and assumed that I would enjoy being in the middle of all that as well. Again, sometimes this provoked passionate arguments and my wanting to hide from all that, but he understood with time did not bother me. As far as I could see, he was almost never manipulative at least in the family. (He was in his business, but that was not my business.) He was never even mildly abusive towards me either. Towards my mother is a different issue... not all the time, but there were some disturbing events. So, all-in-all, we have had a great relationship and we still do, very close to each-other. He says that he has never been able to be as personal, open, and honest with anyone else in his life. Is he misleading me with this? Don't know, but I don't think so, at least considering the parts of his life that I could see. It does not matter either. But despite all this, I was pretty happy to move out of the family home when I was 18 and become independent, live the way I imagined etc.
I also had relationships with other people with narcissistic tendencies, mostly work relationships. Some of these were extremely efficient, strong, and complementary. But I often saw the same people being very difficult for others. I guess it's not a problem for me, because I am fiercely independent and almost impossible to manipulate with anything I disagree with myself; probably these people sense it and so no problem between us. Interestingly, a few of them actually decided to choose me as their rare confidant... like my father. I've never been in a romantic relationship with anyone I would consider quite narcissistic, though -- that I could see running into problems in the long run, due to some very different preferences for interacting with the external world.
So again, I think it depends on everyone's personality, mental health, history, coping mechanisms, an preferences in the relationship. I can't imagine getting along with a true psychopath though unless they are very well managed somehow.
Oh btw, my father and the other people I was describing never had substance addiction problems, not that I know of or could see any sign of. I am the alcoholic in these stories, although most of the relationships I mentioned occurred before my alcohol problem. And my dad never knew about it.
I also had relationships with other people with narcissistic tendencies, mostly work relationships. Some of these were extremely efficient, strong, and complementary. But I often saw the same people being very difficult for others. I guess it's not a problem for me, because I am fiercely independent and almost impossible to manipulate with anything I disagree with myself; probably these people sense it and so no problem between us. Interestingly, a few of them actually decided to choose me as their rare confidant... like my father. I've never been in a romantic relationship with anyone I would consider quite narcissistic, though -- that I could see running into problems in the long run, due to some very different preferences for interacting with the external world.
So again, I think it depends on everyone's personality, mental health, history, coping mechanisms, an preferences in the relationship. I can't imagine getting along with a true psychopath though unless they are very well managed somehow.
Oh btw, my father and the other people I was describing never had substance addiction problems, not that I know of or could see any sign of. I am the alcoholic in these stories, although most of the relationships I mentioned occurred before my alcohol problem. And my dad never knew about it.
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Originally Posted by LemonGirl 
Well for some reason narcissistic people, addicts, alcoholics, and emotionally unavailable men have all fit the bill for my dating preference. There seems to be some similarities....
Some speculation... It's probably complex, but briefly one thing for sure is that in both active addiction and narcissism, people are or become dependent on external rewards and gratification. These define our moods and reinforce superficial functioning in the world. And we all become emotionally unavailable at least at times due to being so hooked on these types of rewards, instead of what would be part of a healthy, natural, loving relationship.
It's also often discussed that addicts are narcissistic, and narcissistic people are prone to addictions. I guess those that have co-dependent tendencies fit into this universe via their own version of craving external validation, and also, I guess someone who is an addict or narcissistic can use codies as "source".
And what the OP said: we have biological similarities, and even if we don't originally, it can be developed by conditioning (repeated encounters).
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Narcissist and Psychopaths: What living with them does to you
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I keep coming back to this thread... because my mind has been so full of these questions and realities lately, and it's evolving every day. I hope you guys don't mind me posting so much here... I never posted much in the F&F sections because I did not think that related issues were parts of my issues for a long time... I've come to SR as an alcoholic wanting to get sober. Now in recovery for over a year, and the realizations I've been having recently are totally fascinating to me. So finally I arrived in this area, investigating my relationships with family and friends.
Just back from my weekly therapy session, and we discussed mostly these things as these are what occupy me intensely right now. I'm not generally a huge fan of getting back to the past, but at the same time I do like dissecting it and I find it often very useful in the context of wanting to understand where I am now and where my future could/should be. And I'm not a fan of pathologizing either... but for the sake of communicating facts by putting names on them: I think I'm a very good example for what's often being discussed on this side of SR. Daughter of a narcissistic father (a mostly well-managed and functionally intact one, except his more recent times I think), a codie mother (sadly she could not exercise the care she tried to project on me successfully), and myself the addict with a pretty clear obsessive personality (alcoholism was just my most recent addiction/obsession). Only child.
One might say, what's the point of dissecting all this now, given that these family relationships have not impacted me very negatively, no serious adverse consequences in my adult life. But there are many, many subtle and important (for me) consequences that I want to deal with now as realistically as possible; and I will.
Thanks guys for listening to me here and sorry about the hijack..., this thread came just in a perfect moment for me.
ShootingStar - I am a research biologist and very intrigued by what you brought up. In fact, a couple years ago I was involved in a study (as an investigator) on the neurobiological underpinnings of borderline personality disorder, and we did find some interesting things. I can't help myself but think that we could possibly expand that to a comparison between borderline, narcissistic personality disorder, and addiction.
Btw, I would also never tell someone "just get over it". Clearly, I could not get over it easily myself either and it even took me ages to realize all this.
Just back from my weekly therapy session, and we discussed mostly these things as these are what occupy me intensely right now. I'm not generally a huge fan of getting back to the past, but at the same time I do like dissecting it and I find it often very useful in the context of wanting to understand where I am now and where my future could/should be. And I'm not a fan of pathologizing either... but for the sake of communicating facts by putting names on them: I think I'm a very good example for what's often being discussed on this side of SR. Daughter of a narcissistic father (a mostly well-managed and functionally intact one, except his more recent times I think), a codie mother (sadly she could not exercise the care she tried to project on me successfully), and myself the addict with a pretty clear obsessive personality (alcoholism was just my most recent addiction/obsession). Only child.
One might say, what's the point of dissecting all this now, given that these family relationships have not impacted me very negatively, no serious adverse consequences in my adult life. But there are many, many subtle and important (for me) consequences that I want to deal with now as realistically as possible; and I will.
Thanks guys for listening to me here and sorry about the hijack..., this thread came just in a perfect moment for me.
ShootingStar - I am a research biologist and very intrigued by what you brought up. In fact, a couple years ago I was involved in a study (as an investigator) on the neurobiological underpinnings of borderline personality disorder, and we did find some interesting things. I can't help myself but think that we could possibly expand that to a comparison between borderline, narcissistic personality disorder, and addiction.
Btw, I would also never tell someone "just get over it". Clearly, I could not get over it easily myself either and it even took me ages to realize all this.
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What is the web site?
Originally Posted by ShootingStar1
I have found a website that discussed what happens to us, including emotionally and the changes in our brain chemistry that drives our perceptions, when we are in a relationship with a narcissist or psychopath.
It is quite stunning. Just google Neuro Instincts and you'll pull up the site with blogs, articles, and videos.
One of the articles, "Romantic Love and the Survivor of An Abusive Relationship" talks about this. For example, when we fall in love, whether it be with a "normal" person or a psychopath/narcissist, our brain chemistry changes and is less influenced by the part of our brain that is rational. We see our lover through that rose colored lens, and even later, when the narcissist/psychopath is behaving in a destructive manner, there is a neuro-pathway in our brains that leads us back to that initial bonding of love. So even though we may know better, there are chemical brain changes that make us want to believe that our initial perception of this person as loving and caring is still true.
There are ways to recover from this, and the site goes into them. It does validate for us, as survivors of relationships with destructive people, that there are physiological obstacles to overcome as we recover. And that helps us understand why it is not as easy to move on as the people telling us "Just forget him - just get over it" think it is.
It is a realistic, science based site that validates how we feel and who we've become from our immersion in abuse, and gives us ways to recover.
ShootingStar1
It is quite stunning. Just google Neuro Instincts and you'll pull up the site with blogs, articles, and videos.
One of the articles, "Romantic Love and the Survivor of An Abusive Relationship" talks about this. For example, when we fall in love, whether it be with a "normal" person or a psychopath/narcissist, our brain chemistry changes and is less influenced by the part of our brain that is rational. We see our lover through that rose colored lens, and even later, when the narcissist/psychopath is behaving in a destructive manner, there is a neuro-pathway in our brains that leads us back to that initial bonding of love. So even though we may know better, there are chemical brain changes that make us want to believe that our initial perception of this person as loving and caring is still true.
There are ways to recover from this, and the site goes into them. It does validate for us, as survivors of relationships with destructive people, that there are physiological obstacles to overcome as we recover. And that helps us understand why it is not as easy to move on as the people telling us "Just forget him - just get over it" think it is.
It is a realistic, science based site that validates how we feel and who we've become from our immersion in abuse, and gives us ways to recover.
ShootingStar1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
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The website is Neuro Instincts.
Haennie, as a research biologist, if you haven't come across them already, there are two books you might want to look at. They are easily accessible for all of us, and they have more current information on the physiology of trauma than most books do.
The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma by Bessel Van Der Kolk, M.D.
In An Unspoken Voice: How the Body Releases Trauma and Restores Goodness by Peter A. Levine, PhD
I learned so much from the second book, and the first book is a recent release by one of the most respected physicians in the field.
ShootingStar1
Haennie, as a research biologist, if you haven't come across them already, there are two books you might want to look at. They are easily accessible for all of us, and they have more current information on the physiology of trauma than most books do.
The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma by Bessel Van Der Kolk, M.D.
In An Unspoken Voice: How the Body Releases Trauma and Restores Goodness by Peter A. Levine, PhD
I learned so much from the second book, and the first book is a recent release by one of the most respected physicians in the field.
ShootingStar1
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