50 Shades of Grey - A Psychiatrist's Letter to Young People

Old 02-13-2015, 08:56 PM
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I've been suspicious of this type of "romance" since reading Romeo and Juliet in HS. It's not a romance, it's a tragedy. I was the only one in class to say "so, what? They're like dead now? That's it? That sucks."

Maybe we don't all have experience of 50 shades, but Some of us sure know about the 13th step! This type of older man vulnerable younger woman is one of the reasons that men should not sponsor women who come into AA/NA or Al-anon. The dynamic is too fraught with danger. Given the independent nature of each group, there is no type of oversight. Many men are mandated to meetings and have no intention of changing their lives. They go to make the court happy. I have met "sponsors" who are absolutely twisted. One that I knew was juggling 6 at a time. None of the women had been in AA for more than 6 months. In his head, he was helping them. SICK! A a young woman who's head is not clear yet and is looking for support, validation and affection can easily be caught in a web by "choice"

How many marriages and relationships with loving people have been destroyed by manipulative sponsors and 13th steppers with ulterior motives knowing that a person getting clean will reach for anything that sounds more logical than the noise in their own heads. Just Google it. Lord, let me go to bed! I could burn the night on this!
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Old 02-14-2015, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by KariSue View Post
The girl in the book wasn't a broken soul though.
This has been bothering me. I haven't read the book, so I can't speak of her, only myself.

I didn't think I was a broken soul. I thought I had it all together. I had beautiful, loving parents (mom and stepfather) and siblings, a college degree, new career, lots of friends, and a bright future ahead of me. I met a guy who swept me off my feet, treated my like a queen, was charming, fun, always the life of the party, and who I never imagined could hurt me. So I married him. Within a couple of years, I found myself married to an alcoholic, emotional abuser.

It was funny...the first person who ever pointed out to me that I was being abused was his mother. He and I were at odds one afternoon about something--I can't even remember the details now--but his mom was there and witnessed the discussion. Then we watched him get into a self-centered, pouty huff, and get in his truck and tear out of the driveway. She said to me, "That's abusive." That memory has never left me. It was startling to me that HE was mistreating ME. I had been gradually conditioned to believe that those kinds of arguments were my fault. I took that kind of emotional abuse for years after that because I felt committed to my marriage vows and because I loved him.

I was broken going into that relationship and didn't know it. Broken because I had an alcoholic, emotionally abusive, abandoning, womanizing biological father. But because I had been raised in a good home after bio dad left us when we were very young, I thought I was healed. I thought I was wiser and smarter than all of that. As a young 20-something woman, I probably would have read a book like '50 Shades' and not made the connection with abuse and control. I don't know. But I hope the attention this movie has given to abuse will cause good to come from it.
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Old 02-14-2015, 09:27 AM
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As fantasy,yeah. I mean just look at what is on TV for all of us, 24/7. As reality, no. For children, or even unstable adults, no. Disguised as something healthy, no. In your gut, you can feel something exciting about it, but there is no escaping that another part of you tells you there is something soul-destroying there -- and there is. When your better nature calls out to you, you had better listen. If you don't, it can grow silent. It is there to protect you. Ignore it at your peril.
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Old 02-14-2015, 09:40 AM
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I read all the books and it was such fiction. I can't imagine watching it with my own eyes on the big screen - no thank you. And I hear all kinds of normal stores are selling all kinds of SM bondage "toys" amongst all other kinds of mainstream, non-sexual items even next to things targeting children! Disgusting.
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Old 02-14-2015, 10:16 AM
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I did not care for this simplistic and moralistic little piece but the Atlantic has an excellent article about it Fifty Shades of Grey Gets BDSM Dangerously Wrong - The Atlantic
Personally, I have no problem with bedroom games between consenting adults and I find it a bit amusing that everyone automatically assumes that the female has to be the bottom in a d&S relationship.
It seems though that the story goes a little bit further.
I will reserve judgement until I actually read the books or watch the movie which I might or might not get around doing.
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Old 02-14-2015, 10:31 AM
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I never used to think there was anything "wrong" with porn. Or prostitiom. I figured what consenting adults did was between consenting adults. But I have since learned that's not always the case. Anyone here remember the True Crime story about the "girl in the box"? Or more recently that horrid little man in Cinninati that kidnapped those young girls?

these kinds of books and movies, IMO, fuel this sick, distorted thinking. Human trafficking is up and there's no consent involved! I have been reading more about it and it's is very very upsetting now common it is.

I am no prude. I am not a judgmental person in this area. But some stuff does have a greater effect than once realized.

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Old 02-14-2015, 10:34 AM
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I have not read the books nor seen the movie. IMO it is always good when a discussion is raised about important topics. I'm not against the book of movie in theory. It is fantasy. Dominance and submission are both very common fantasy themes for women not familiar with abuse so the popularity of the movie and books is not surprising.
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Old 02-14-2015, 10:34 AM
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Don't waste your time, Carlotta. It's horribly written (no structure, like a 9-year-old writes - seriously, talk about stunted emotional growth) and is pure garbage. The author can't even seem to figure out if the main character carries a BlackBerry, Blackberry, or blackberry. No consistency, no proper use of brand names or anything else. It's a colossal failure as far as "literature" is concerned.

A friend and I have a running bet on how busy our ER is going to get now that the movie is out in theaters.
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Old 02-14-2015, 10:36 AM
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Thumper, the books and the movie aren't about BDSM, though. At least not as it is meant to be: safe, sane, and consensual. This book throws that out the window. It's abuse glorified.
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Old 02-14-2015, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
I have not read the books nor seen the movie. IMO it is always good when a discussion is raised about important topics. I'm not against the book of movie in theory. It is fantasy. Dominance and submission are both very common fantasy themes for women not familiar with abuse so the popularity of the movie and books is not surprising.
Glad that you did not read it either. I was starting to think that I was the only female left in the US who had not read it
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Old 02-14-2015, 11:02 AM
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From what I'm hearing, the movie is very bad. boring. Not at all "sexy" or interesting, and I am glad to see it die a box office death.

I got some email suggesting a donation to the groups that support abused women or to DV shelters rather than fork out for this movie.

And perhaps this is a coinsidence? I don't know but I got emails this morning from my workplace on recognizing human trafficking and what to do if suspected. So, maybe this silly movie will have served some good after all by bringing out into the open the magnitude of organized abuse.

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Old 02-14-2015, 11:13 AM
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Yeah, some movies I can't bring myself to watch even out of curiosity. And forget about the books--at least a movie is over in a couple of hours.

Pleasure and pain CAN be closely connected--it doesn't hold a huge attraction for me, but I can understand it. There's always been a market for rape fantasy among women who wouldn't for a second want to experience it for real. It's kind of like enjoying a horror movie without ever wanting to ever actually BE in the scary situation.

Thanks for posting the link to the Atlantic article, Carlotta. That first article just reminded me a little to much of the "anti-drug" movies we had to watch in the late 60s when I was in Junior High. We all left, going, REALLY?? If I were a teenager reading that column, I think I'd be first in line to buy a ticket. Anything THAT dangerous would HAVE to be worth seeing.
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Old 02-14-2015, 11:15 AM
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I think there is a broader discussion that is important too. My daughter is 10, she is already being bombarded by mainstream media. And she doesn't live in a bubble so it is important to gently help her be able to discern the subtle messages that are being relayed. A movie like "Mean Girls" is supposed to be about how the independent interesting girl ends up being the one to come out on top….but what does that mean? The alpha male at high school asks her to be his date. That is the happy ending that reverberates through mainstream media.

So many children's programs are oriented, some subtly others blatantly, at the end game being "getting the guy". Look at our fairy tales…moral character is correlated with a woman's physical beauty, women are pitted against each other in competition for a man, and the end game is all about getting the guy. Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White.

It is impressed upon women at very young and formative ages that their valuation is attached to attracting the man. I think it helps understand how even a young woman from a stable background can get trapped in a bad or abusive relationship. And I think it helps us understand why women stay when it is reinforced constantly that we are valued by who we "catch". And so where does that leave us if it doesn't work out? It makes it so understandable that women get confused about what it means to be enough on our own. I am not dismissing the fact that women can also be the abusers, and I think that is another considerable issue that we ignore as a society.

There are deep anthropological foundations to how we approach the opposite sex. A movie like 50 Shades comes about and pulls a lot of the subvert messages that are cued constantly…and then it attempts to glamorize the idea that women long to be submissive. I disagree with the premise that this is simply a fuzzy soft porn movie that is titillating because it is being introduced in a mainstream format. How well would this movie have done if a woman had been in the dominant role and the guy was insecure, naive and economically at a disadvantage?

Male/female relationships, are, and will always be, complicated. There is a lot of residual behaviors that we have dragged in from the Stone Age that don't apply. Why do psychic cues like aggression, hostility and domination get linked with sexuality? I am glad these discussions are being had. Our livelihood no longer depends on waiting in a cave waiting for some crazy haired dude to drag the dead animal back to us for sustenance. We can do our own hunting.

Progress is being made, which is why a film like this should cause us to pause. Because I don't believe the movie would have generated such interest if the guy was submissive and weak, that strikes a deep uncomfortable chord. I appreciate that people are stepping back and questioning the message that is being sent. And I am concerned about young impressionable minds absorbing a message. There is always an implied legitimacy to a message because it is in print, or on the big screen or radio. It bothers me to jump into an NYC cab and inevitably get assaulted with a Howard Stern type of program. I don't think people can listen to sexist, racist blather constantly without starting to believe it, even if it is explained as ok because it is done tongue in cheek. It is really hard not to start to believe messages when we are saturated with them. My daughter used to hate broccoli, she has eaten it for so long she now loves it…conditioning, repetition.

Hawks, I appreciate your comment that you would like to protect your daughter from such treatment. I would like to help my daughter be able to be preemptive on her own, to be able to distinguish behaviors that are putting her into a less than role. At some point she will be on her own, and I hope that by having appropriate discussions along the way she will be able to see beneath the surface and make appropriate judgements about the way she is interacting with a partner.

I have found this forum to be a really healthy place for people in relationships that are hurting them to start to unwind the dynamics. It has made me much more aware of how people treat each other. It has also made me appreciate the struggle and strength of people who start to believe that they deserve to be respected, feel safe, and that they don't need anyone to make them whole. There are a lot of heroes here who have had to challenge the status quo, and in doing so have empowered all of us.
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Old 02-14-2015, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by jaynie04 View Post
It is really hard not to start to believe messages when we are saturated with them. My daughter used to hate broccoli, she has eaten it for so long she now loves it…conditioning, repetition.
Spot on, Jaynie. Conditioning is a concern of mine for my girls. That and attracting "the man" as you mentioned. I knew a lot of alpha male types in high school and college that turned out to be the biggest losers/jackasses/jerks in their marriages. Maybe that's getting off topic though.

This really struck me from the article:

5. Christian’s emotional problems are cured by Anastasia’s love.

Only in a movie. In the real world, Christian wouldn’t change to any significant degree. If Anastasia was fulfilled by helping emotionally disturbed people, she should have become a psychiatrist or social worker.

It irks me when movies send that message. How many movies/books/songs tell the truth about emotional problems and codependency? Not enough.
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Old 02-14-2015, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by LexieCat View Post
Thanks for posting the link to the Atlantic article, Carlotta. That first article just reminded me a little to much of the "anti-drug" movies we had to watch in the late 60s when I was in Junior High. We all left, going, REALLY?? If I were a teenager reading that column, I think I'd be first in line to buy a ticket. Anything THAT dangerous would HAVE to be worth seeing.
I must be an overgrown teenager because I did not even consider seeing the movie until I read that article. My first reaction was like: if that moralistic stick in the mud think it is naughty and bad I should definitely check it out LOL
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Old 02-14-2015, 11:49 AM
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It irks me when movies send that message. How many movies/books/songs tell the truth about emotional problems and codependency? Not enough.
Actually it is the premises of most mainstream romance novels: the hero saves the heroine from physical danger, scandal and/or poverty and the heroine saves the hero from his own inner demons. If you pick up a couple of those, it is amazing how they condition women to be codependent.
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Old 02-14-2015, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Carlotta View Post
Glad that you did not read it either. I was starting to think that I was the only female left in the US who had not read it
I haven't read it either, Carlotta.
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Old 02-14-2015, 11:56 AM
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Great article you shared, Carlotta. It's one that my 21yo would probably relate to better than the one I shared, although I'll send her both links.
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Old 02-14-2015, 11:56 AM
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Ack, and now I see in Carlotta's quote that I wrote "it reminds me to much"--PEOPLE!! I KNOW it's TOO, not TO!

Sheesh, I hate seeing stuff like that in my posts. It injures my writer's ego.

Oh, well, things could be worse. At least I don't have my byline under "Fifty Shades."
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Old 02-14-2015, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Carlotta View Post
Actually it is the premises of most mainstream romance novels: the hero saves the heroine from physical danger, scandal and/or poverty and the heroine saves the hero from his own inner demons. If you pick up a couple of those, it is amazing how they condition women to be codependent.
Yes, this exactly.
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