amy55

Thing is, he is lying to you. He may actually believe these lies. He has been homeless, no place to go, continued drinking, now all of a sudden he will go if you allow him a few days?????????????????

Where does any of this make sense??

I am one of those believers, hate to see the bad side of anyone. I think sometimes we just need to let go of the other person, they are dragging us down with them, then we are both drowning.

I have no doubt that your friend is a terrific person. I also think you are a terrific person, and I dont want to see you flushing yourself away. I think it's time to think about you. Have you ever tried that? What do you want? What do you like? What do you need? Your hobbies. I really can't see your answer being that I want to be shackeled to a drunk that just brings me down.

Sorry about the spelling

((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))
amy

amy55

I'm also not going to say that he doesn't have problems. of course he does. I am an alcoholic. RA. It seems to me that he is just seeking out sympathy from anyone so that he can keep drinking. I do have a lot of empathy for him, but I have more for you.

amy

happycampers

You're absolutely right on all counts ! I have worked hard to restore myself to good health after I got him out and the thought of having his energy around is already bothering me ! I just know he'll try and hang on anyway he can unless I don't give him a chance to ! So, I need to be strong tomorrow with an immovable NO ! He's really nice to me when he's trying to get something and an ass when he doesn't get it . I'm NOT going to allow this cycle to start up again. I've been doing great since I put my NO in place the last time he got in a bind and I need to again ! Well, one thing I can say about this is I'm getting lots of practise at saying and holding a firm NO ! Thanks a lot, Amy for your support tonight. I have no one but here to look for help and sound advice and your words mean a million bucks to me right now ! Thank you !!!

happycampers

So, from your experience , do you believe he's serious about rehab this time after living under the bridge drinking mouthwash ? He said tonight that was his bottom .

amy55

Ummmmm, no !!!!!!!!!!!! He is not serious. I have never touched the mouthwash or the vanilla extract.

imho, he is a hardcore alcoholic, and until he addresses unlerlining causes for why, he will remain an alcoholic. It is his way to deal with his pain. By saying this, I am not saying this for you to feel sorry for him. I had a lot of pain in my life, and I learned or am learning to deal with it.

Guess sometimes I need to say, you need them to hit rock bottom, instead of cushioning their fall. He is using alcohol as a crutch, and he is also using you.

Until that crutch is gone, he will continue to play his pity party for anyone who is listening.

Stay strong.

We are all here for you.

((((((hugs)))))
amy

Itchy

Happycampers,
I think you like the drama. If you want to help drunks take it as a professional volunteer at a rehab or a shelter and do not be friends, be the guy who says sorry, we are full. I had to kick my own son out at 18. He did not straighten up until about 30 and is now 41 and will never have a pot to spit in. Two marriages, three daughters that are taking after their stripper mother, his first wife. He cannot say no and thinks he is saving the world. Meantime he has tickets, lost his driver license and is driving a junker clunker.

You sound a lot like him. A good heart and just keep thinking you are helping.

Let me tell you a fact that you are not getting. When someone is going down a hole by choice, there is nothing you can do. They have to hit bottom. That you are helping by grabbing their arms to hold them up from falling to the bottom never results in them climbing out. But you will be dragged down the hole with them. You walk away and then are drawn back like a moth to a light. I am not trying to be mean. Go help folks but detached and friendly not familiar.

We have a guy here we call Hobo Joe. I made the mistake of giving him A RIDE BECAUSE IT WAS COLD. It took a week of spraying and cleaning to get the stench out of my car! I have made it clear I am not interested in helping him at all. Why?

Because my reality in life is that I am recovered and have enough. Giving it away to another, my peace and lack of drama, let alone money to a wastrel only means he will waste as much of my earned resources, money, time, and peace of mind.

I do not feel deprived of alcohol. That was my choice. But when you hang around with the stench of proverbial excrement, some of the stench is bound to rub off.

Just what I had to do. My wife and I tried to just give him and the girls what they needed and they pawned it all, or swapped it for whatever.

He is doing much better now, and will cycle through another period of doing much worse. See, he stays connected with people he knows like yours too.

We have a BIL like that too. And his kids are worse. We avoid them and that is all we can do. See, no one could stop me. I had to escape on my own, with a little help from my friends, here and in AA.

If the docs and social workers can't turn him around what are the chances you will?

Sometimes you have to let go. And not look for another. Friends walk together side by side, not above or below.

Codependency comes from a loving heart with no self discipline. Walk away don't set boundaries. Then take out a restraining order if he does not stay away. You've done more than I would have already. And I am a certified crisis intervention counselor. I can't change another, they have to change themselves.

amy55

I really wanted to address this. I would also like and appreciate any other RA's comments on this.

I guess some alcoholics would drink mouthwash, I don't know of many, they would prefer to get in the car and get some more. Mouthwash is more expensive then alcohol.

Really do think that he is playing a pity party, and he knows in the past you gave him a place to stay.

Ummm, also saying that is pure manipulation.

Please do not give him a place to stay. He is playing with you.

amy

happycampers

Thanks for the smack in the face, Itchy - I needed that ! And you're absolutely right ! The thought of going down that path again just about makes me want to puke !! I've had more than enough of that alcoholic crap for three lifetimes. I WILL stay strong when he comes a knocking tomorrow ! I promise - for MY sake ! Thank you for the support !

amy55

Itchy, thank you for your perspective on this. You really were head on, on this.

happycampers

Not if he is stealing it , which I just found out today ! And I agree, it's all just him trying to manipulate me again and use me and I know all this ! I think I just needed some support and reinforcement on these feelings tonight because I know tomorrow, he's going to be in my face ! You guys have confirmed everything my logical brain has been saying for a few days now and that is re-assuring !

happycampers

And Itchy, I HATE the drama, which is way I'm so angry with myself for stopping the other day and starting this whole mess up again ! My life is going so well without this crazy-making drama !!! I truly HATE it and won't allow it back in my life !

happycampers

I thank you both for taking the time and energy to help me tonight ! It has been a huge boost in the arm for tomorrow's face-off !

amy55

You know you have your logical mind, then of course we have that compassionate part of us.

The most compassionate thing you can do, is to let go!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you give him a place to stay, you will be enabling his mindset, as to how every one is against him. You will actually be stopping him from growing mind wise and emotionally. You would always be that soft cushion that he can fall on.

Thinking of you, and hope to hear from you tomorrow. We really do care about you.

Not trying to be "smart" or anything here, but when do you really think about you?

amy

happycampers

I have been thinking about me and working hard to build a solid foundation in many areas of my life lately and have made huge progress, which is why having this mess come around again is just not what I want, but here it is, so I get to practise saying NO again and closing the door -again! I'll come by for sure tomorrow once I have gotten through the face-off ! Thanks so very much Amy for all your kind words and your support tonight - it has been a huge help !! Really huge !

amy55

I have read this whole thread, and I saw how strong you are. I just really want you to continue to be strong. I know how pathetic A's can be. I am one. We want to just blame everyone else for everything going wrong in our lives.

Know, it is not you. I'm also a codie. Just know that I think you are terrific and in this case I think you might be wasting your energy. I really don't think he wants help, and I think he is sucking the life out of you.

I just want the best for you.

Look forward to hearing how it goes tomorrow.

(((((hugs)))))
amy

happycampers

Hi Amy,
Just wanted to let you know I met with the guy - he is still in the hospital til tomorrow. Actually, it went better than I thought ! We were both calm as I said he couldn't come to my building - he knew that was coming. We talked of his options and now it's up to him to figure it out ! As long as he's not in my space, I don't care what he does. He is signed up on a waiting list for a 21 rehab that may happen next week. Says he has hit his bottom, but I've heard that before . I wish him well and hope he has reached his bottom for his sake - this is definitely the lowest I've ever seen him go in the decade I've known him , so only his actions will be believeable. All else is just talk as far as I'm concerned, but I will remain positive in his presence. I don't need to be an ass and make him feel worst than he does. Like I said, as long as he's not in my space or my daily life, I'm OK ! Thanks so much Amy for all your kind words and your support last night - you really helped me out !!!

ladyscribbler

My ex used to complain if I bought alcohol free mouthwash, ranting that it didn't work right. He went through mouthwash really fast. The kids and I didn't really use it. I'd bring home a new bottle and it would be gone the next morning. Of course he'd say that it spilled, but I never saw or smelled any spills in the bathroom. He was always minty fresh though. I guess it smelled better than vodka. I used to stock up at the Dollar Tree, so it was pretty cheap.
Somehow I didn't make the connection that he was drinking it until after I left, when I saw how long bottles of mouthwash lasted in our new place. I've had the same mouthwash for at least three months (alcohol free, my dentist recommended it). I use a little swish every night before bed.
He never messed with the vanilla extract though. Maybe he didn't know it was alcohol. He did once try to drink my nail polish remover. That was a mess.

garfiild

Dear Lord.....

On the topic of mouthwash, it's worth mentioning that some brands have up to 20% or more alcohol content. They are (or can be) quite potent when consumed.

happycampers

Lady, I love your guy at the bottom of your post - he just cracked up !!!
And yes, most mouthwash is stronger than beer, which what he would drink when he had money. Time will tell how well he switches to tea from those !!! I'm not placing any bets on that one ! But I'll pray for him !

Itchy

Happycampers,
I'm glad to hear you are letting him reap what he's sown. No one could help me drink or stop. But I can tell you I hate drama too. We have to believe in helping one another. But not to the degree that we become enablers.

We can't take credit for another's triumphs. That goes double for their fails.

I've never heard of someone blaming another for their success when they weren't face jobbing.

I hope your buddy makes it. You too!