broke up our engagement over possible red flags. need advice
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 315
And to continue, NO you didn't do anything wrong and nothing you would have done would have made this different. She is responsible for her actions, you are not. You didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it. You might want to check out some Alanon meetings, online if you're too busy to get to one. Helped me immensely in letting go.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,699
My biggest problem is my internal battle. I was not able to ever truly give my all to her because of the reservations I began to develop as our relationship moved forward. I keep thinking back and wondering maybe if I have opened up to her all the way maybe she would have acted differently and maybe we could have approached her problems as a team and solved them. what do you guys think?
I also am a logical and calculated person. Because of this, I felt that I could not have possibly chosen someone so broken that they cannot see what they do to themselves and others. WRONG! Much like them, admitting that we made a less than ideal choice in a partner, is the first step to getting better.
Who knows, maybe a couple years down the line she will have figured herself out, and the possibility of a blissful relationship for the 2 of you will be possible. Until that time, highly unlikely. I am sorry - I hope I am not projecting - your story just registers with me as all too familiar. (((HUGS)))
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
confused, I've noticed that you have referred to your non-fiancée more than a few times as GORGEOUS. while that may be true, that physical attribute has NOTHING to do with the foundation of a good healthy relationship. nor does mind blowing sex.
cuz looks fade, and sex won't cook you dinner. if I need to take the kids to soccer practice, hit the grocery store, drop off the dry cleaning, and pick up 30# of mulch, I ain't taking the 'Vette. Corvettes are a beautiful car (had one) but they are impractical, expensive, finicky and consume vast amounts of Premium Only gas..........BUT if you have open road and need to get somewhere quick, take the 'Vette.
what if you took some time to really think about this PERSON in your life, but did so with your eyes closed. if she was 50 pounds overweight, with a bad haircut and a bum hip, would you still be SO enthralled? would her inner "beauty" be enough? would all the chaos and insanity balance against the special gifts she brings to the table?
cuz looks fade, and sex won't cook you dinner. if I need to take the kids to soccer practice, hit the grocery store, drop off the dry cleaning, and pick up 30# of mulch, I ain't taking the 'Vette. Corvettes are a beautiful car (had one) but they are impractical, expensive, finicky and consume vast amounts of Premium Only gas..........BUT if you have open road and need to get somewhere quick, take the 'Vette.
what if you took some time to really think about this PERSON in your life, but did so with your eyes closed. if she was 50 pounds overweight, with a bad haircut and a bum hip, would you still be SO enthralled? would her inner "beauty" be enough? would all the chaos and insanity balance against the special gifts she brings to the table?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Hey if you want to give it a go......
You are an adult and you have choices that you can make. A child cannot. If you feel so strongly about this woman be with her and all her issues, do you want to subject your children to her behavior? Perhaps looking at a relationship with her but no kids is something that you would consider.
Cause its not going to change unless she wants to change it, and spends a couple years working to do so.
I hear the questions you are asking, like if you had been different maybe she would have been. Hon, you could sit her down and open yourself up and tell her every thought you have ever had in your life, and the behavior will not change. Perhaps you need to dip your toe back in the pool. Who knows.
Ultimately what you do is your decision. We are here for you - sorry you are going through so much.
You are an adult and you have choices that you can make. A child cannot. If you feel so strongly about this woman be with her and all her issues, do you want to subject your children to her behavior? Perhaps looking at a relationship with her but no kids is something that you would consider.
Cause its not going to change unless she wants to change it, and spends a couple years working to do so.
I hear the questions you are asking, like if you had been different maybe she would have been. Hon, you could sit her down and open yourself up and tell her every thought you have ever had in your life, and the behavior will not change. Perhaps you need to dip your toe back in the pool. Who knows.
Ultimately what you do is your decision. We are here for you - sorry you are going through so much.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: ny
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by firebolt 
Nope - this is your codie voice telling that you can fix another human being. I could guess that your reservations are because over and over again you observed red flags based on her actions, but then your codie voice took over and tells you that "you are overreacting, cut her some slack, she's not that bad, everyone has problems." Amiright?
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
confused, I've noticed that you have referred to your non-fiancée more than a few times as GORGEOUS. while that may be true, that physical attribute has NOTHING to do with the foundation of a good healthy relationship. nor does mind blowing sex.
cuz looks fade, and sex won't cook you dinner.
what if you took some time to really think about this PERSON in your life, but did so with your eyes closed. if she was 50 pounds overweight, with a bad haircut and a bum hip, would you still be SO enthralled? would her inner "beauty" be enough? would all the chaos and insanity balance against the special gifts she brings to the table?
cuz looks fade, and sex won't cook you dinner.
what if you took some time to really think about this PERSON in your life, but did so with your eyes closed. if she was 50 pounds overweight, with a bad haircut and a bum hip, would you still be SO enthralled? would her inner "beauty" be enough? would all the chaos and insanity balance against the special gifts she brings to the table?
But no, if I wasnt so attracted to her I would have never let her get away with stuff like that.
Originally Posted by redatlanta
Hey if you want to give it a go......
Cause its not going to change unless she wants to change it, and spends a couple years working to do so.
I hear the questions you are asking, like if you had been different maybe she would have been. Hon, you could sit her down and open yourself up and tell her every thought you have ever had in your life, and the behavior will not change. Perhaps you need to dip your toe back in the pool. Who knows.
Ultimately what you do is your decision. We are here for you - sorry you are going through so much.
Cause its not going to change unless she wants to change it, and spends a couple years working to do so.
I hear the questions you are asking, like if you had been different maybe she would have been. Hon, you could sit her down and open yourself up and tell her every thought you have ever had in your life, and the behavior will not change. Perhaps you need to dip your toe back in the pool. Who knows.
Ultimately what you do is your decision. We are here for you - sorry you are going through so much.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
Other folks have said everything I would say, however:
Pro-tip: Healthy women who want healthy relationships generally aren't willing to put up with controlling partners, regardless of their looks and aspirations.
Controlling behavior was a problem for me, too, and it's been a blessing in my life to have looked at it critically and learned better ways of dealing with my life than making everyone and everything adhere to my desires. It's a central trait of co-dependency, and one muscle we should avoid exercising.
I tend to think I can control everyone and everything. I need to work on the fact that not everything is under my control.
Controlling behavior was a problem for me, too, and it's been a blessing in my life to have looked at it critically and learned better ways of dealing with my life than making everyone and everything adhere to my desires. It's a central trait of co-dependency, and one muscle we should avoid exercising.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Originally Posted by confused66
Thank you so much, and this is my problem. I tend to think I can control everyone and everything. I need to work on the fact that not everything is under my control.
Its one thing to love someone. I believe you love this woman. Its another to live with them - just because you love someone DOESN'T mean you can live with them. I didn't learn that until I was in my 40's.
Please be smarter than me. My situation worked out, but I am rare. I also don't have kids and did not want any. That is a big part why it worked out along with the fact that my RAH had 10 years sobriety and got back on board with the program relatively quickly.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
Anyways, this is unfortunately the fifth time this has happened in our relationship.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
It seems to me that a lot of the reason you want her is that she looks like someone who would "complete the package" you want to present to the world. Rising young physician with gorgeous, educated professional wife.
And how good do you think it will look when she falls apart in a very public way? Given her tendencies toward public, drunken outbursts and drunk driving, I'd say chances are pretty good that the two of you will turn some heads--just not for the reasons you'd like.
You can expect a lot of gossip and whispers. You can expect professional embarrassment. You can expect to see huge debts eating up your nice professional income.
I'm not suggesting that you dump someone because of how it might "look" to be involved with them, but rather that it is a mistake to stake your future on someone who is going to not only make your life a mess, but do so in a very public way.
And how good do you think it will look when she falls apart in a very public way? Given her tendencies toward public, drunken outbursts and drunk driving, I'd say chances are pretty good that the two of you will turn some heads--just not for the reasons you'd like.
You can expect a lot of gossip and whispers. You can expect professional embarrassment. You can expect to see huge debts eating up your nice professional income.
I'm not suggesting that you dump someone because of how it might "look" to be involved with them, but rather that it is a mistake to stake your future on someone who is going to not only make your life a mess, but do so in a very public way.
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Michigan
Posts: 7
" it is not realistic to remove lust from a relationship. I really believe it is one of the central components of any relationship"
Lust is a central component in a sexual relationship, absolutely. But it is not something you find at the core of an emotionally intimate relationship.
Physical attraction is important, but it isn't everything.
Lust is a central component in a sexual relationship, absolutely. But it is not something you find at the core of an emotionally intimate relationship.
Physical attraction is important, but it isn't everything.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
You are absolutely right, but I have to say, it is not realistic to remove lust from a relationship. I really believe it is one of the central components of any relationship
and how is that maxim working out for you so far?? sorry but you got it wrong, WAY WRONG. lust is nothing more than a FEELING of intense DESIRE. a wanting. it has no thought, no rationale, no meaningful purpose....
Lust is an altered state of consciousness programmed by the primal urge to procreate. Studies suggest that the brain in this phase is much like a brain on drugs. MRI scans illustrate that the same area lights up when an addict gets a fix of cocaine as when a person is experiencing the intense lust of physical attraction. Also in the early stage of a relationship, when the sex hormones are raging, lust is fueled by idealization and projection--you see what you hope someone will be or need them to be--rather than seeing the real person, flaws and all.
so if that is what you think needs to be at the CENTRAL CORE of your relationship, it's no wonder you are in the mess you are in........
and how is that maxim working out for you so far?? sorry but you got it wrong, WAY WRONG. lust is nothing more than a FEELING of intense DESIRE. a wanting. it has no thought, no rationale, no meaningful purpose....
Lust is an altered state of consciousness programmed by the primal urge to procreate. Studies suggest that the brain in this phase is much like a brain on drugs. MRI scans illustrate that the same area lights up when an addict gets a fix of cocaine as when a person is experiencing the intense lust of physical attraction. Also in the early stage of a relationship, when the sex hormones are raging, lust is fueled by idealization and projection--you see what you hope someone will be or need them to be--rather than seeing the real person, flaws and all.
so if that is what you think needs to be at the CENTRAL CORE of your relationship, it's no wonder you are in the mess you are in........
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,452
Confused, you have the right, and perhaps I might add, the obligation to live YOUR OWN life in a responsible, mature, accountable fashion.
Right now, you are in the midst of an intense, vital, pre-eminently important training experience in your career that will determine whether or not you become the surgeon you have planned and worked to be for so long.
You HAVE THE RIGHT TO PUT THIS GOAL FIRST.
Tell her that you HAVE to concentrate on your studies. Tell her that that is first, primary, non-negotiable. That is your responsibility and accountability to your profession as surgeon, and to the rigors of the training that you have agreed to perform. You need to be in top form for that.
Tell her that you will talk with her again in 1 year - decide the time frame by looking at when your surgery residency and obligations lessen. Go No Contact with her - no visits where she cries on your couch, no plaintive or accusatory phone calls, texts. Nothing. Make your boundary your right and obligation to complete your surgical training without distraction.
Tell her that if she is sober and working a strong recovery program from alcoholism and depression, and making genuine progress, in a year, the two of you can then think about a future together.
Choosing personal health and growth will be her contribution to the relationship. Yours is owning the right and obligation to be fully present and at optimal capacity in your training as a surgeon. That is a legitimate choice for you: to focus on becoming the best that you can be. The life or death nature of your future profession adds a poignancy and urgency to this choice for you.
If she chooses to focus equally on her own growth and development in the upcoming year while you are apart, then she is making a commitment to become the partner that you need and want.
If she doesn't choose growth and remains tangled in untreated depression and alcoholism, you will then know what the future will bring.
Doing this will let her be accountable for her own choices. If she wants a life and marriage and possibly children with you, then she will choose the path that leads toward that, no matter how difficult.
One of the hardest lessons to learn, then accept, and finally embrace for me as I left my then AH after a twenty year marriage, has been that he had and has the right to choose to live any way he wants to. He has the right to choose alcohol and porn and rage even if I don't like it, and even if I think I know better what healthy choices are for him.
That is arrogance on my part: to think that MY view of how he should behave should govern HIS choices. That, to me, is the heart of co-dependence. It is saying that I have the right to overrule other's choices because I know what is best for them. That devalues them; that diminishes them; that harms them.
Each of us comes into this world alone, charts our own destiny (for better or worse) alone, and dies alone. We have the right to our own autonomy, no matter whether we choose what others approve of or not.
The right that our lovers, family and friends have is to say that they cannot be involved with our choices if they are too painful or destructive for their own lives.
Without this, our seemingly subtle entreaties to "get better" become arrogant, controlling dictims, even when phrased with love. We only have the right to live our own lives.
You have a stunning future ahead of you as a surgeon, and you have poured your life's energy and resources into this goal. You do not have to allow her the right to distract you from your mission and your commitment to this. If having her behavior in your life is leaving you crying in the midst of critical care for your patients, her behavior is not honoring you or your commitments.
This is serious stuff. It is time to think about what constitutes a healthy relationship FOR YOU. Leave behind the future tripping of what it would be like to marry "the best of her". Take a hard look at what this relationship is doing right now to your competence, your capacity to grow into the surgeon you need to become. While dreaming of what "the best of her" might bring in the future, you need to own up to what the "reality of her" is doing right now to your own life.
From all you say, it looks as though her emotional and alcohol problems and the ensuing chaotic drama are damaging you and feeding her need for attention that distracts from her making the choice to heal.
This is said with great empathy. Take what you want and leave the rest. Shakespeare said "True compassion is ruthless."
ShootingStar1
Right now, you are in the midst of an intense, vital, pre-eminently important training experience in your career that will determine whether or not you become the surgeon you have planned and worked to be for so long.
You HAVE THE RIGHT TO PUT THIS GOAL FIRST.
Tell her that you HAVE to concentrate on your studies. Tell her that that is first, primary, non-negotiable. That is your responsibility and accountability to your profession as surgeon, and to the rigors of the training that you have agreed to perform. You need to be in top form for that.
Tell her that you will talk with her again in 1 year - decide the time frame by looking at when your surgery residency and obligations lessen. Go No Contact with her - no visits where she cries on your couch, no plaintive or accusatory phone calls, texts. Nothing. Make your boundary your right and obligation to complete your surgical training without distraction.
Tell her that if she is sober and working a strong recovery program from alcoholism and depression, and making genuine progress, in a year, the two of you can then think about a future together.
Choosing personal health and growth will be her contribution to the relationship. Yours is owning the right and obligation to be fully present and at optimal capacity in your training as a surgeon. That is a legitimate choice for you: to focus on becoming the best that you can be. The life or death nature of your future profession adds a poignancy and urgency to this choice for you.
If she chooses to focus equally on her own growth and development in the upcoming year while you are apart, then she is making a commitment to become the partner that you need and want.
If she doesn't choose growth and remains tangled in untreated depression and alcoholism, you will then know what the future will bring.
Doing this will let her be accountable for her own choices. If she wants a life and marriage and possibly children with you, then she will choose the path that leads toward that, no matter how difficult.
One of the hardest lessons to learn, then accept, and finally embrace for me as I left my then AH after a twenty year marriage, has been that he had and has the right to choose to live any way he wants to. He has the right to choose alcohol and porn and rage even if I don't like it, and even if I think I know better what healthy choices are for him.
That is arrogance on my part: to think that MY view of how he should behave should govern HIS choices. That, to me, is the heart of co-dependence. It is saying that I have the right to overrule other's choices because I know what is best for them. That devalues them; that diminishes them; that harms them.
Each of us comes into this world alone, charts our own destiny (for better or worse) alone, and dies alone. We have the right to our own autonomy, no matter whether we choose what others approve of or not.
The right that our lovers, family and friends have is to say that they cannot be involved with our choices if they are too painful or destructive for their own lives.
Without this, our seemingly subtle entreaties to "get better" become arrogant, controlling dictims, even when phrased with love. We only have the right to live our own lives.
You have a stunning future ahead of you as a surgeon, and you have poured your life's energy and resources into this goal. You do not have to allow her the right to distract you from your mission and your commitment to this. If having her behavior in your life is leaving you crying in the midst of critical care for your patients, her behavior is not honoring you or your commitments.
This is serious stuff. It is time to think about what constitutes a healthy relationship FOR YOU. Leave behind the future tripping of what it would be like to marry "the best of her". Take a hard look at what this relationship is doing right now to your competence, your capacity to grow into the surgeon you need to become. While dreaming of what "the best of her" might bring in the future, you need to own up to what the "reality of her" is doing right now to your own life.
From all you say, it looks as though her emotional and alcohol problems and the ensuing chaotic drama are damaging you and feeding her need for attention that distracts from her making the choice to heal.
This is said with great empathy. Take what you want and leave the rest. Shakespeare said "True compassion is ruthless."
ShootingStar1
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 302
Dude,
I hear you. I have no earthly idea how you are having the time for this drama. I'm an EM attending, and dealt with my (now late) ex husband, whose alcoholism came front and center during my residency. I generally don't broadcast what I do, but since you are in a unique position, I figured I'd share that I get what you're going through.
It took me years to accept that I couldn't save him. I mean, I save people for a living. That's what I do, and I'd like to think I'm pretty damn good at it. And I couldn't save him from himself. We were married 11 years. The first 4 were pretty good. The latter were hell. My saving grace was that I was gone 80 hours a week (because, you know, you can't work more than that... mostly). However, he still managed to run up debts, barely escaped wrecking the cars, and I have no idea how he DIDN'T get DUIs. (He did after we divorced, but I didn't find out about it until years later.) He mostly sat home and drank. Sounds like you wouldn't be so "lucky."
You do NOT need this.
The mantra I ultimately developed was "If you're still sober and I'm still single in 5 years, we'll talk." Over and over and over, although it might as well have been me talking to a wall. He went to two inpatient rehabs before I couldn't do it any longer and we separated within a year of me finishing residency. No contact is really the only option, especially when you are dealing with any sort of personality disorder.
I forked out nearly equal the amount of my student loans in alimony. He didn't make it to the 5 year mark, and died of alcohol related complications a couple months ago.
In the meantime, I worked on me, salvaged my finances, and was on the brink of becoming a crazy cat lady when I met a really great guy. Ironically, his late mother was an alcoholic, so he gets how damaging it is. We've been together 2 years but have taken it REALLY slowly.
This is the last thing you need to be stressing about. Seriously. Many marriages don't survive residency, and you are far better off financially not saddled with divorce - because it WILL hurt. You think a borderline is going to divorce fairly? Even if you're only married briefly? Ha.
Anyway, you're in a good place. I would check out al-anon. I was always afraid of running into patients/families, but really, it is anonymous, and I gained a lot out of it. You can also use your program's EAP for confidential counseling. I did. Not that it really helped, but it was someone else to vent to who wasn't my mom. It was also nice to have someone independently confirm (again, who was not my mom) that I wasn't crazy. Sounds like you don't really even have the mom option.
Good luck. You've gotten a lot of good advice here.
DMC, MD
I hear you. I have no earthly idea how you are having the time for this drama. I'm an EM attending, and dealt with my (now late) ex husband, whose alcoholism came front and center during my residency. I generally don't broadcast what I do, but since you are in a unique position, I figured I'd share that I get what you're going through.
It took me years to accept that I couldn't save him. I mean, I save people for a living. That's what I do, and I'd like to think I'm pretty damn good at it. And I couldn't save him from himself. We were married 11 years. The first 4 were pretty good. The latter were hell. My saving grace was that I was gone 80 hours a week (because, you know, you can't work more than that... mostly). However, he still managed to run up debts, barely escaped wrecking the cars, and I have no idea how he DIDN'T get DUIs. (He did after we divorced, but I didn't find out about it until years later.) He mostly sat home and drank. Sounds like you wouldn't be so "lucky."
You do NOT need this.
The mantra I ultimately developed was "If you're still sober and I'm still single in 5 years, we'll talk." Over and over and over, although it might as well have been me talking to a wall. He went to two inpatient rehabs before I couldn't do it any longer and we separated within a year of me finishing residency. No contact is really the only option, especially when you are dealing with any sort of personality disorder.
I forked out nearly equal the amount of my student loans in alimony. He didn't make it to the 5 year mark, and died of alcohol related complications a couple months ago.
In the meantime, I worked on me, salvaged my finances, and was on the brink of becoming a crazy cat lady when I met a really great guy. Ironically, his late mother was an alcoholic, so he gets how damaging it is. We've been together 2 years but have taken it REALLY slowly.
This is the last thing you need to be stressing about. Seriously. Many marriages don't survive residency, and you are far better off financially not saddled with divorce - because it WILL hurt. You think a borderline is going to divorce fairly? Even if you're only married briefly? Ha.
Anyway, you're in a good place. I would check out al-anon. I was always afraid of running into patients/families, but really, it is anonymous, and I gained a lot out of it. You can also use your program's EAP for confidential counseling. I did. Not that it really helped, but it was someone else to vent to who wasn't my mom. It was also nice to have someone independently confirm (again, who was not my mom) that I wasn't crazy. Sounds like you don't really even have the mom option.
Good luck. You've gotten a lot of good advice here.
DMC, MD
Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 254
Hey there. I'm glad you found SR. Being a resident it grueling enough as it is, and this on top of it! Phew!
Look, I think you have ABSOLUTELY done the right thing. You have feelings for her, strong strong strong ones, I know. But you know she's sick. She's sick, and she's refusing treatment. So, what would you say to another patient who was refusing treatment, or even more accurately, DENYING THE TRUTH of their diagnoses?
Patient comes in... Male, late 30s, wife and two young children are with him, and you say...
"Sir, I'm sorry to give you this news, but you have cancer. Luckily there are treatments available..."
"I don't have cancer! You're trying to CONTROL me with your MEDICINE!"
"No sir... I'm saying that if you don't get treatment, you will leave your wife and children without a husband and father within the next six months."
"I don't have cancer! My wife just needs to be taking better care of me so I'm not tired and throwing up all the time!"
And then the wife chimes in - "Tom, please listen to the nice doctor - we don't want you to die, the kids need their father -"
And then the patient slaps her in the face in front of you and their kids, and yells "Don't tell me how to live my life! I can fix my own cancer, which I don't even have! Now don't leave me I need you! Let's have sex!"
This dramatization brought to you by an amateur writer at SR.
Ok but seriously. I was raised by a woman who would not acknowledge or take responsibility for her physical or mental health problems and it kind of ruined my life. Please stay strong in your decision. You fell in love and you know that serotonin and dopamine etc is gonna have to run its course. But you gotta think long term. You WILL love again. She is responsible for her own life, and making you feel like YOU are responsible for her life is abusive behavior.
(you need a vasopressin inhibitor or something
)
Look, I think you have ABSOLUTELY done the right thing. You have feelings for her, strong strong strong ones, I know. But you know she's sick. She's sick, and she's refusing treatment. So, what would you say to another patient who was refusing treatment, or even more accurately, DENYING THE TRUTH of their diagnoses?
Patient comes in... Male, late 30s, wife and two young children are with him, and you say...
"Sir, I'm sorry to give you this news, but you have cancer. Luckily there are treatments available..."
"I don't have cancer! You're trying to CONTROL me with your MEDICINE!"
"No sir... I'm saying that if you don't get treatment, you will leave your wife and children without a husband and father within the next six months."
"I don't have cancer! My wife just needs to be taking better care of me so I'm not tired and throwing up all the time!"
And then the wife chimes in - "Tom, please listen to the nice doctor - we don't want you to die, the kids need their father -"
And then the patient slaps her in the face in front of you and their kids, and yells "Don't tell me how to live my life! I can fix my own cancer, which I don't even have! Now don't leave me I need you! Let's have sex!"
This dramatization brought to you by an amateur writer at SR.
Ok but seriously. I was raised by a woman who would not acknowledge or take responsibility for her physical or mental health problems and it kind of ruined my life. Please stay strong in your decision. You fell in love and you know that serotonin and dopamine etc is gonna have to run its course. But you gotta think long term. You WILL love again. She is responsible for her own life, and making you feel like YOU are responsible for her life is abusive behavior.
(you need a vasopressin inhibitor or something
)
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 278
My first thought when you described her behaviour was 'BPD'; however, nobody can really diagnose someone they've never met!
I can only add to what others have already said on here. One thing in your original post struck a chord with me, though; I'm an ACOA, and have had my fair share of emotional problems in the past - but have also had a lot of psychotherapy. Until quite recently, I had an (almost unacknowledged) belief that because I was 'damaged goods' I wasn't entitled to have a relationship with someone stable, cheerful and reliable. As you say, 'Who am I to judge?'
Well, having been in Alanon for three years now, I wouldn't dream of maintaining a relationship with someone whose behaviours are like your girl's. In fact, these days if someone in a new relationship was moving too fast, I'd be backing out very fast myself. I've just seen the carnage this leads to, too many times.
If you're aware of emotional problems in yourself, take some time out from dating to deal with them. Two birds with broken wings strapped together don't make for elegant flight!
I can only add to what others have already said on here. One thing in your original post struck a chord with me, though;
But we are young and who am I to judge since I have my own indulgences with alcohol.
Well, having been in Alanon for three years now, I wouldn't dream of maintaining a relationship with someone whose behaviours are like your girl's. In fact, these days if someone in a new relationship was moving too fast, I'd be backing out very fast myself. I've just seen the carnage this leads to, too many times.
If you're aware of emotional problems in yourself, take some time out from dating to deal with them. Two birds with broken wings strapped together don't make for elegant flight!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,805
Rosalba, you make an excellent point. Alcoholics love to point their fingers at other people's issues, particularly if the other people are still drinkers, in order to take the spotlight off of themselves. And we codies are perfect targets for this as we love to take on not only our own fears, guilt and shame, but everyone else's, too! Confused, don't fall for this trap. Part of the reason that I quit drinking alcohol entirely, was knowing full well that my alcoholic mother would attack my drinking in order to defend her own. I now realize that my motivation to do that was part of my codependent control tactic arsenal, but that is okay, because my sobriety has become the best gift that I have ever given to myself, regardless of my initial motivations.
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 82
You have received lots of great advice and perspective here. I'd like to throw out one more scenario that way be meaningful if you think about children. Your gf is willing to be violent, chastised you for not being violent enough back (the slapping back comment), drives drunk and doesn't take care of her or your basic needs like treating illnesses like depression (think Maslow's hierarchy). How is she not going to treat your children the same? Will she rage at them? Hit them? Drive around drunk? Not treat their ailments? Teach them that all of this is okay? If you say no way not my kids how can you stop it? You can't without divorce, courts etc. Please consider this. You can choose this life for yourself but those potential children will have no choice. Will you be too busy with your career to protect them? Just something to consider. Good luck.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 970
thought this post I saw today might be useful to you, confused. You can go down the list and see how many red flags you're both facing :
minnie
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
Red Flags
I have posted this in its entirety from heartlessbitches.com I may not agree with some of the points, but gives plenty of food for thought.
The RED FLAG List - Warning signs that He (or She) is BAD NEWS...
Too many women are misled by the romantic myth that men are "diamonds in the rough" and we are supposed to "help" them become better men, often by sacrificing our own needs. We are socialized to believe that if we help them, take care of them, give up our own needs for theirs, they will "take care" of us. BLEAH. Of course, men are just as vulnerable- they often marry women they barely know, feeling that they have to be "mature" and "grown up" and then end up miserable because they're stuck with someone they have nothing in common with. Or they play "rescuer" and take up with women who are little, fragile dolls who need to be 'taken care of' and they say things like "She needs me, she's so fragile. She's like a little wounded deer."
Barf.
The sad thing is, that the men/women who CAN change, do it on their own. OUTSIDE of a relationship. They take time off from relationships, and work on their relationship with themselves. The can demonstrate REAL work and real change, rather than platitudes. The men/women who go from relationship to relationship, (often leaving one partner for another) are NOT going to get past their issues. And the sad thing is that far too many men, despite their loud and protesting denials, really just want another mother. As one very wise woman put it, "Unfortunately, most men never left the tit."
Some people, however, are worse than others, and in the true spirit of HBI, we have created our "Red Flag List" - things to watch out for, and turn and walk (quickly) away from - no matter HOW deeply involved you are in the relationship.
As the mother of this Heartless Bitch once said,
"A man is who he is by his 16th birthday. Don't enter a relationship expecting him to change, because he won't, even if it is better for him and he knows it. And if he DOES seem to change, he'll only revert back the moment you let up, and he'll only resent you the whole time you are trying to get him to change. It's not worth it."
Through some personal experience and in talking to many other women, we have compiled a list of things to watch for. This list can apply equally to women as well as men. If the person you are with does any ONE thing on this list, put on your running shoes. If they do TWO or more things, lace those shoes up tight, and start RUNNING.
1. He demands sex on the first date, and when you repeatedly refuse it, he replies that he won't take no for an answer, and asks repeatedly what he has to do to make you change your mind.
2. His favorite subject is how oppressed he is by the world, and how all these feminists and liberated women who always turn him down have damaged his self-concept and made life so hard for him.
3. Despite his obvious mental angst [or perhaps because of it...] he completely rejects the idea of professional therapy as a sham, preferring to confide in YOU, because, well, YOU are so much better at understanding him and his troubled life than some overpaid professional "quack."
4. He/she has an elevated tension level consistently. Tries to paint the inability to relax as a positive character trait.
5. He/she always has an "agenda". Does not sincerely listen to anything that diverts attention from the agenda, and quickly shifts conversation back to his/her goal(s), without addressing the other person's concerns.
6. He says things like "I see in you the woman you can be (/become)", in combination with his love declarations. (This sounds very romantic in the beginning, as if he wants to help you grow, or develop, or god knows what you make of it, but in fact it means: I see flaws in how you are now and I am going to do something about "fixing" you)
7. He immediately starts sucking up to your friends and trying to become buddies with them. I am not saying being nice to them, I mean trying to establish his OWN close relationship with them. (In the beginning easily taken for 'nice': he wants to be a part of my life, but in fact a means to have better control -e.g. make you start doubting them later if he wants to alienate you from them, to make you more dependent on him, and to prevent you from having someone to talk to about problems with him (friends don't want to get "caught in the middle"). Manipulators try to get close to YOUR friends in order to feed misinformation behind the scenes, so that they come off looking like martyrs when they pull the rug out.
8. They have had a chemical dependency problem in the past. Addicts usually replace one addiction with another, if they ever leave on addiction behind at all. Alcohol today, porn tomorrow.
9. Men who have juvenile hobbies such as comic book or action figure collections. This is a huge sign that they're not all the way grown up.
10. Men who take a casual touch football or video game and turn it into a major competitive event complete with "psych-out" insults and verbal baiting. Later, when feelings are hurt, he will say that the object of this fierce competitiveness was "hypersensitive" or just a sore loser crybaby.
11. You assert some perfectly normal, basic right of yours, for example to not lend him your car for a week or something, and he acts very shocked and hurt, and tells you that YOU ARE VERY SELFISH. 99.9% of the time, when a person tells you YOU are selfish, it is because you are refusing to give in to some unreasonable, selfish demand of theirs. They will try this with any aspect of life where you assert yourself as a separate independent person - such things as going back to school, having your own bank account, going out with your friends without him, etc. are "selfish" since they are not about him or his "needs."
12. He/she tries to enlist your help in getting revenge on or publicly embarrassing his/her ex.
13. He/she enlists your friends and family to get you back after a fight or break up.
14. The answer to any relationship problem you have is resolved in bed.
15. He and you grew up differently- him from a traditional "old world" style family- and you a "Americanized" family- and he wants you to behave/dress/talk more conservative (like his mother- a lifelong homemaker).
16. He breaks up with you "for your own good", using excuses like "you will be miserable with me" or "you need to be free" or "you aren't ready for sex", then he begs for you to come back.
17. He does something REALLY inconsiderate and/or discourteous, and no matter how calmly you try to talk to him about it, he JUST DOESN'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND why you are hurt or upset. You find yourself having to explain concepts of basic courtesy to him. He insists that you are overreacting, being too sensitive, or uses some other implication that there must be something wrong with you. Even if he DOES apologize, you leave the conversation never really feeling like things were actually resolved. Never feeling like he really understood or accepted that his actions were inappropriate or hurtful.
18. He says things like "I just want to be good for someone. I just want to be good for YOU." Don't let it tug at your heart-strings. Don't think it means he's REALLY working on his stuff - it means he's so filled with self-hate that he's been an ass to everyone else in his past, and he thinks that he can feel good about himself if he finds the "right" woman. He's searching for salvation through YOU instead of working on his **** himself, and it won't work. It didn't work in the past with all the other women and you are just another kick at the can for him.
19. He says things like, "If I can't make it work with you, I don't think I can make it work with anyone...", trying to emotionally manipulate you into feeling sorry for him, so you'll stay around when he is clearly behaving like an ass.
20. He sits in the car, honking the horn, or starts to drive away, while you are still in the house/apartment, trying to get ready to go out. He knows you aren't ready yet, but he goes out to the car anyway. He gets angry and frustrated if you aren't ready the instant HE is. Your life is expected to run on HIS schedule.
21. On the subject of running your life on HIS schedule, You are expected to wake up when HE does, and go to bed when HE does. If you stay up late or sleep in, he sulks or takes off without leaving any indication of where he has gone. He may "forget" the two of you made plans for that day, or go do the activity you planned to do together, with someone else.
22. Something about him "creeps out" or unnerves other friends or family members.
23. He just *leaves* a party or function you went to with him, without telling you (or anyone else) he is leaving, or where he is going.
24. He drops subtle or not-so-subtle hints about how "perfect" he thinks he is, or what a great catch others have said he is, and how "lucky" you are to have him. Unfortunately, with this guy, you will never be able to live up to his impossible standards.
25. He tells you how his previous girlfriend (the one he dumped for you) says the two of you won't last (attempting to hook you into trying to prove her wrong).
26. He sulks or acts like a sullen jerk if you ask him to attend function with you that he doesn't want to attend, or if you don't want to leave early, when HE does. He is incapable of being mature about it and just figuring out how to have fun.
27. He goes to a movie or play or concert that YOU expressed an interest in seeing, with someone else - deliberately timing it so that you were unavailable to attend.
28. He makes joking insults about you in front of others and/or in front of you.
29. He blames all his previous relationship failures on the women he was with. He complains how they were unstable, insensitive or just didn't understand him. If he DOES admit that he ****** things up, he is quick to point out that if SHE had been the *right* person for him, she wouldn't have allowed him to **** it up.
30. Even though he will denigrate them on the one hand, on the other hand, he holds his previous girlfriend(s) up as impossible standards for you to live up to.
31. He seems like "a challenge", or a "diamond in the rough".
32. He/she talks about looking for a "soul mate" or "someone to complete me".
33. He warns you about his previous bad behavior, and indicates that he is "working" on it, but is not "healed" yet. He implies that maybe only YOU can really understand and help him overcome his past, but he's not sure. This leaves him an "out" (an "I WARNED you" option) when he DOES act out again.
34. He never apologizes, or he apologizes, but in an oily way that implies that he won't make a committment to not do it again, or in some way implies that YOU were the cause of the bad behavior - that you "triggered" him or "pushed his dysfunctional buttons".
35. He has no friends of the opposite sex.
36. He has no friends period.
37. He has people he calls "friends" but he very rarely, (or *never* calls) them, goes out with them or does anything with them.
38. His "friends" are total flakes, crackpots and emotionally disturbed people. (Healthy people attract Healthy friends. Unhealthy people attract UNhealthy friends.)
39. He/She abandons his/her current "friends" at the start of your relationship, and practically never sees them, never does anything with them anymore - he/she is completely focussed on YOU.
40. He has no spine- lets you do whatever you want, never says NO. Says things like, "Whatever you do." or "It's up to you."
41. He/She doesn't take responsibility for his/her behavior- everything is someone else's fault. Or blames all adult mistakes on parents.
42. He thinks WWF wrestling is culture.
43. He/She gets annoyed if you want to spend time with anyone else but him/her. Won't let you have your own friends and starts gradually cutting you off from them. Or insists she/he doesn't need any friends except for you.
44. He does something REALLY hurtful or inconsiderate and when you get upset, makes a comment like, "I'm not responsible for your feelings". He refuses to do anything in the way of reparation, and invalidates your feelings. He acts cold and callous, or condescending implying that you are overreacting or being irrational by being upset.
45. He apologizes, but keeps repeating the same hurtful "mistakes". When you question him on this he accuses you of "laying blame".
46. He remembers EVERY mistake you ever made, and brings them up long after you apologized (and made reparation), in order to justify HIS bad behavior ("Well YOU did X... and I'm still hurting from it..."). OR he uses those old hurts as excuses for his "depression".
47. He has a completely different recollection of "events" than you have, and insists that YOU are the one that has the faulty memory. Especially events where HE acted inappropriately.
48. He is a pig in his own place, but expects that the "right woman" will help him fix it up and keep it clean.
49. (if you are living together). He complains about the mess in the house, and criticizes the lack of kitchen cleanliness as if it is YOUR fault, but his own room or office is a STY. (Remember, it's easier to criticize the way a woman keeps a kitchen than it is to admit you are a misogynist.)
50. (for guys in their 30's and 40's) He has NO relationship with his ex-partners, in fact, they want NOTHING to do with him. If he isn't friends with at least a couple of his ex-partners (especially the long-term significant ones), and talks with them socially periodically (over more than issues with their kids), then watch out.
51. He is uncomfortable with you talking to his former girlfriends/partners/spouses.
52. (According to him) all or many of his former girlfriends are "nuts" or emotionally unbalanced. Watch out for the "I did this bad thing, BUT... SHE brought it out in me.... and I won't be that way with you..." or worse... the "I'm not sure if I won't do this again, but with the RIGHT woman to BELIEVE in me..."
53. He seems like a "lost puppy" in need of care. (Get help for yourself for even being attracted.)
54. He has ANY history of childhood abuse (abusive parents or siblings), ESPECIALLY (but not limited to) sexual abuse, and he hasn't been in YEARS of therapy (and I mean YEARS - like a decade or more, depending on his age), working through his issues. Men who were abused have a very strong tendency to become abusers. It takes many many years of therapy to overcome this, if they can at all. And when they start therapy, they often get worse before they get better. Manipulative men who have been in therapy for only a year or so or are probably at the WORST stage to get involved with.
55. He/She is on the rebound - i.e. less than 1.5 years after a major breakup from a long-term relationship.
56. He's seeing someone else (and he is intimate with them) and he falls for you. It may seem very flattering, but he'll only do the same thing to you later. It's a sick pattern and it ISN'T going to stop with YOU.
57. He tells you all the ways you are alike and seems to find more similarities with each passing day - he's setting you up. He's "mirroring" you to be more attractive. It's another abuser/controller pattern.
58. He/She wants to get married before you have known each other for more than 1-2 years and haven't even lived together yet. It takes at least 1.5yrs for the "hormone rush" of infatuation to wear off, and the true colours to start to emerge, depending on how quickly you individuate away from the "joined at the hip" phase.
59. He starts doing things incongruent with the person you THOUGHT you first got to know. People are always on their best behavior during the "courtship" phase. If that behavior starts to degrade and change into little nasty digs, or lies, or other forms of abuse, DITCH him before it gets worse. Don't wait around hoping the the guy you first fell in love with is going to resurface - that was obviously a False Image designed to hook you.
60. He/She takes pride in how he/she "screwed over" the ex financially in the divorce.
61. He renegs on or "forgets" any financial agreement the two of you had - such as to share the rent on a basement apartment you both worked on to fix up.
62. He insists that you remain financially independent and then complains when you can't afford the same level of entertainment and travel that HE can.
63. He seems "too good to be true" - he probably IS (not TRUE, that is).
64. He is constantly "down" and has a variety of excuses - his back hurts, he doesn't get enough light, you are keeping him awake at night so he doesn't get enough sleep, he hasn't had enough to eat that day, etc.
65. He suffers from some kind of chronic pain, such as back pain, but refuses to get any treatment for it, and then uses it as an excuse for why he is irritable, inconsiderate and even nasty.
66. He continually rejects your ideas for things to do, (dates) places to go, etc.
67. He "forgets" critical things that he has KNOWN for years, like the fact that you are allergic to feathers (and buys a feather comforter for the bed, or a feather pillow).
68. You *clearly* and openly state your expectations and needs, in a calm and caring fashion, you are told that you are being "controlling" or "manipulative" or "too sensitive".
69. He tells snide joking insults about you in front of others. If you complain, he says it was all in fun and you are just being too sensitive.
70. You are moving out of the infatuation phase and find yourself having to constantly reassure him that you love him and will be there, simply because you are no longer spending every waking minute (outside of work) with him. He continually complains about the lack of "intensity" in your relationship and implies that YOU are the one responsible for not keeping it up.
71. He used to be completely interested in anything you had to say, and now starts showing disinterest in topics that interest you, to the point of rudeness. He won't even listen out of politeness or courtesy. Complains that you don't talk about HIM enough, or listen to HIM enough, and that what you are interested in, isn't interesting to HIM. Expects YOU, however to be interested in ANYTHING *he* is interested in.
72. You have to keep proving yourself worthy of his attention or love. You get attention withdrawn if you ask for responsible behavior or in any way indicate that you were not happy with something he did.
73. He tells you many or all of his deep dark secrets, early on. It seems like he is really sensitive and opening up to you. This is often a tactic that manipulators use to get you to think that YOU are so special that they can only open up like that to YOU. It's just a technique. They do it with EVERYONE. They also do it to "cover" for their previous bad behavior, - if they TELL you about it, it MUST mean they are working on it and won't do it again... (though they NEVER ACTUALLY SAY THAT... they imply it heavily). The goal is to cover their tracks in case you happen to hear something from anyone else - this ensures that they have good cover story well in hand, as well as giving them the advantage of already convincing you of THEIR version before anyone else can get you. And the act of telling you about their bad behavior in the past will become a great caveat/excuse in future if they enact it on you - "well I TOLD you I was a manipulator, and that I was TRYING to change..." the implication being that you just weren't SPECIAL enough, after all... or that you aren't trying hard enough... Watch what they DO, not what they say.
74. He/she continually wants to discuss "the relationship", and is always finding problems or faults with it, and/or starts insisting/implying that all the relationship problems are YOUR fault.
75. He/She puts on a *very* different demeanor, a different personna, when at work or with another group of people. He/she seems to be a chameleon depending on who they are with - instead of being one *real* person. If questioned, gets defensive and insists that they just have many "facets" to their personality, implying that you just don't fully "accept" them as they are.
76. He uses money to win influence and/or get attention, not because he is genuinely altruistic or generous in nature - for example, he drops hundreds or thousands of dollars on "donations" to charitable organizations (so he can get VIP status at their functions), but won't loan you his $5 beat-up old backpack.
77. She doesn't eat.
78. He's in a real hurry to get married, right now, right away!
79. He's an ex-con. For some women, this still isn't enough, for some reason.
80. Over 30 and still living at home.
81. His/her whole social life revolves around his/her parents.
82. On the first date, already talks about marriage or kids. (This is even out on the 2nd or 3rd date)
83. After only one or two dates, gets overly possessive. Calls constantly, sends gifts, shows up at work.
84. His entire wardrobe consists of clothes from trade shows like Comdex, bearing the logos of software and gaming companies.
85. He stockpiles weapons.
86. He has kids with various women and never sees them.
87. He/She has long history of getting involved with losers, deadbeats, drug addicts.
88. She still calls her mother every time she has to make a major life decision.
89. He/she says things like "you're everything to me. I can't live without you."
90. Everyone hates him- your friends, your parents, even your dog.
91. He/she is under 23 and has already been married and divorced and has kids.
92. He/she can't hold a job for more than three months.
93. He shows signs of pennypinching. For example, a guy who only goes to the rep theatre because he has a special card, and then won't even buy a popcorn but eats out of your container all night and shares your soda. Then won't even go out for a beer after, even if it's a weekend. His clothes are ten years old or more.
94. He uses "bitch" as a term of endearment.
95. He supports his driving under the influence of drugs and alcohol with the phrase, "I'm a professional!" (The fact that drugs are present should be red flag anyway, but not everyone feels that way.)
96. He goes out of his way to be rude and condescending to waitstaff and gets a kick out of their discomfort.
97. He supports his argument against condoms by saying, "I never wear them."
98. He tells you not to get "illusions of grandeur" in regard to marrying him.
99. Sports programs preempt visits with his children on a regular basis.
100. This is a big one: HE DOWNPLAYS AND DEGRADES ALL OF THE "RULES" PEOPLE FOLLOW WHEN DATING. HE COMPLAINS THAT WOMEN ALWAYS MAKE MEN JUMP THROUGH HOOPS. HE FOCUSES ON THESE TWO IN MOST CONVERSATIONS FROM THE FIRST DATE ON. His way of getting around the rules is to repeat, "Ours isn't a conventional relationship. We're not like all of those other people out there who have to have boundaries."
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minnie
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
Red Flags
I have posted this in its entirety from heartlessbitches.com I may not agree with some of the points, but gives plenty of food for thought.
The RED FLAG List - Warning signs that He (or She) is BAD NEWS...
Too many women are misled by the romantic myth that men are "diamonds in the rough" and we are supposed to "help" them become better men, often by sacrificing our own needs. We are socialized to believe that if we help them, take care of them, give up our own needs for theirs, they will "take care" of us. BLEAH. Of course, men are just as vulnerable- they often marry women they barely know, feeling that they have to be "mature" and "grown up" and then end up miserable because they're stuck with someone they have nothing in common with. Or they play "rescuer" and take up with women who are little, fragile dolls who need to be 'taken care of' and they say things like "She needs me, she's so fragile. She's like a little wounded deer."
Barf.
The sad thing is, that the men/women who CAN change, do it on their own. OUTSIDE of a relationship. They take time off from relationships, and work on their relationship with themselves. The can demonstrate REAL work and real change, rather than platitudes. The men/women who go from relationship to relationship, (often leaving one partner for another) are NOT going to get past their issues. And the sad thing is that far too many men, despite their loud and protesting denials, really just want another mother. As one very wise woman put it, "Unfortunately, most men never left the tit."
Some people, however, are worse than others, and in the true spirit of HBI, we have created our "Red Flag List" - things to watch out for, and turn and walk (quickly) away from - no matter HOW deeply involved you are in the relationship.
As the mother of this Heartless Bitch once said,
"A man is who he is by his 16th birthday. Don't enter a relationship expecting him to change, because he won't, even if it is better for him and he knows it. And if he DOES seem to change, he'll only revert back the moment you let up, and he'll only resent you the whole time you are trying to get him to change. It's not worth it."
Through some personal experience and in talking to many other women, we have compiled a list of things to watch for. This list can apply equally to women as well as men. If the person you are with does any ONE thing on this list, put on your running shoes. If they do TWO or more things, lace those shoes up tight, and start RUNNING.
1. He demands sex on the first date, and when you repeatedly refuse it, he replies that he won't take no for an answer, and asks repeatedly what he has to do to make you change your mind.
2. His favorite subject is how oppressed he is by the world, and how all these feminists and liberated women who always turn him down have damaged his self-concept and made life so hard for him.
3. Despite his obvious mental angst [or perhaps because of it...] he completely rejects the idea of professional therapy as a sham, preferring to confide in YOU, because, well, YOU are so much better at understanding him and his troubled life than some overpaid professional "quack."
4. He/she has an elevated tension level consistently. Tries to paint the inability to relax as a positive character trait.
5. He/she always has an "agenda". Does not sincerely listen to anything that diverts attention from the agenda, and quickly shifts conversation back to his/her goal(s), without addressing the other person's concerns.
6. He says things like "I see in you the woman you can be (/become)", in combination with his love declarations. (This sounds very romantic in the beginning, as if he wants to help you grow, or develop, or god knows what you make of it, but in fact it means: I see flaws in how you are now and I am going to do something about "fixing" you)
7. He immediately starts sucking up to your friends and trying to become buddies with them. I am not saying being nice to them, I mean trying to establish his OWN close relationship with them. (In the beginning easily taken for 'nice': he wants to be a part of my life, but in fact a means to have better control -e.g. make you start doubting them later if he wants to alienate you from them, to make you more dependent on him, and to prevent you from having someone to talk to about problems with him (friends don't want to get "caught in the middle"). Manipulators try to get close to YOUR friends in order to feed misinformation behind the scenes, so that they come off looking like martyrs when they pull the rug out.
8. They have had a chemical dependency problem in the past. Addicts usually replace one addiction with another, if they ever leave on addiction behind at all. Alcohol today, porn tomorrow.
9. Men who have juvenile hobbies such as comic book or action figure collections. This is a huge sign that they're not all the way grown up.
10. Men who take a casual touch football or video game and turn it into a major competitive event complete with "psych-out" insults and verbal baiting. Later, when feelings are hurt, he will say that the object of this fierce competitiveness was "hypersensitive" or just a sore loser crybaby.
11. You assert some perfectly normal, basic right of yours, for example to not lend him your car for a week or something, and he acts very shocked and hurt, and tells you that YOU ARE VERY SELFISH. 99.9% of the time, when a person tells you YOU are selfish, it is because you are refusing to give in to some unreasonable, selfish demand of theirs. They will try this with any aspect of life where you assert yourself as a separate independent person - such things as going back to school, having your own bank account, going out with your friends without him, etc. are "selfish" since they are not about him or his "needs."
12. He/she tries to enlist your help in getting revenge on or publicly embarrassing his/her ex.
13. He/she enlists your friends and family to get you back after a fight or break up.
14. The answer to any relationship problem you have is resolved in bed.
15. He and you grew up differently- him from a traditional "old world" style family- and you a "Americanized" family- and he wants you to behave/dress/talk more conservative (like his mother- a lifelong homemaker).
16. He breaks up with you "for your own good", using excuses like "you will be miserable with me" or "you need to be free" or "you aren't ready for sex", then he begs for you to come back.
17. He does something REALLY inconsiderate and/or discourteous, and no matter how calmly you try to talk to him about it, he JUST DOESN'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND why you are hurt or upset. You find yourself having to explain concepts of basic courtesy to him. He insists that you are overreacting, being too sensitive, or uses some other implication that there must be something wrong with you. Even if he DOES apologize, you leave the conversation never really feeling like things were actually resolved. Never feeling like he really understood or accepted that his actions were inappropriate or hurtful.
18. He says things like "I just want to be good for someone. I just want to be good for YOU." Don't let it tug at your heart-strings. Don't think it means he's REALLY working on his stuff - it means he's so filled with self-hate that he's been an ass to everyone else in his past, and he thinks that he can feel good about himself if he finds the "right" woman. He's searching for salvation through YOU instead of working on his **** himself, and it won't work. It didn't work in the past with all the other women and you are just another kick at the can for him.
19. He says things like, "If I can't make it work with you, I don't think I can make it work with anyone...", trying to emotionally manipulate you into feeling sorry for him, so you'll stay around when he is clearly behaving like an ass.
20. He sits in the car, honking the horn, or starts to drive away, while you are still in the house/apartment, trying to get ready to go out. He knows you aren't ready yet, but he goes out to the car anyway. He gets angry and frustrated if you aren't ready the instant HE is. Your life is expected to run on HIS schedule.
21. On the subject of running your life on HIS schedule, You are expected to wake up when HE does, and go to bed when HE does. If you stay up late or sleep in, he sulks or takes off without leaving any indication of where he has gone. He may "forget" the two of you made plans for that day, or go do the activity you planned to do together, with someone else.
22. Something about him "creeps out" or unnerves other friends or family members.
23. He just *leaves* a party or function you went to with him, without telling you (or anyone else) he is leaving, or where he is going.
24. He drops subtle or not-so-subtle hints about how "perfect" he thinks he is, or what a great catch others have said he is, and how "lucky" you are to have him. Unfortunately, with this guy, you will never be able to live up to his impossible standards.
25. He tells you how his previous girlfriend (the one he dumped for you) says the two of you won't last (attempting to hook you into trying to prove her wrong).
26. He sulks or acts like a sullen jerk if you ask him to attend function with you that he doesn't want to attend, or if you don't want to leave early, when HE does. He is incapable of being mature about it and just figuring out how to have fun.
27. He goes to a movie or play or concert that YOU expressed an interest in seeing, with someone else - deliberately timing it so that you were unavailable to attend.
28. He makes joking insults about you in front of others and/or in front of you.
29. He blames all his previous relationship failures on the women he was with. He complains how they were unstable, insensitive or just didn't understand him. If he DOES admit that he ****** things up, he is quick to point out that if SHE had been the *right* person for him, she wouldn't have allowed him to **** it up.
30. Even though he will denigrate them on the one hand, on the other hand, he holds his previous girlfriend(s) up as impossible standards for you to live up to.
31. He seems like "a challenge", or a "diamond in the rough".
32. He/she talks about looking for a "soul mate" or "someone to complete me".
33. He warns you about his previous bad behavior, and indicates that he is "working" on it, but is not "healed" yet. He implies that maybe only YOU can really understand and help him overcome his past, but he's not sure. This leaves him an "out" (an "I WARNED you" option) when he DOES act out again.
34. He never apologizes, or he apologizes, but in an oily way that implies that he won't make a committment to not do it again, or in some way implies that YOU were the cause of the bad behavior - that you "triggered" him or "pushed his dysfunctional buttons".
35. He has no friends of the opposite sex.
36. He has no friends period.
37. He has people he calls "friends" but he very rarely, (or *never* calls) them, goes out with them or does anything with them.
38. His "friends" are total flakes, crackpots and emotionally disturbed people. (Healthy people attract Healthy friends. Unhealthy people attract UNhealthy friends.)
39. He/She abandons his/her current "friends" at the start of your relationship, and practically never sees them, never does anything with them anymore - he/she is completely focussed on YOU.
40. He has no spine- lets you do whatever you want, never says NO. Says things like, "Whatever you do." or "It's up to you."
41. He/She doesn't take responsibility for his/her behavior- everything is someone else's fault. Or blames all adult mistakes on parents.
42. He thinks WWF wrestling is culture.
43. He/She gets annoyed if you want to spend time with anyone else but him/her. Won't let you have your own friends and starts gradually cutting you off from them. Or insists she/he doesn't need any friends except for you.
44. He does something REALLY hurtful or inconsiderate and when you get upset, makes a comment like, "I'm not responsible for your feelings". He refuses to do anything in the way of reparation, and invalidates your feelings. He acts cold and callous, or condescending implying that you are overreacting or being irrational by being upset.
45. He apologizes, but keeps repeating the same hurtful "mistakes". When you question him on this he accuses you of "laying blame".
46. He remembers EVERY mistake you ever made, and brings them up long after you apologized (and made reparation), in order to justify HIS bad behavior ("Well YOU did X... and I'm still hurting from it..."). OR he uses those old hurts as excuses for his "depression".
47. He has a completely different recollection of "events" than you have, and insists that YOU are the one that has the faulty memory. Especially events where HE acted inappropriately.
48. He is a pig in his own place, but expects that the "right woman" will help him fix it up and keep it clean.
49. (if you are living together). He complains about the mess in the house, and criticizes the lack of kitchen cleanliness as if it is YOUR fault, but his own room or office is a STY. (Remember, it's easier to criticize the way a woman keeps a kitchen than it is to admit you are a misogynist.)
50. (for guys in their 30's and 40's) He has NO relationship with his ex-partners, in fact, they want NOTHING to do with him. If he isn't friends with at least a couple of his ex-partners (especially the long-term significant ones), and talks with them socially periodically (over more than issues with their kids), then watch out.
51. He is uncomfortable with you talking to his former girlfriends/partners/spouses.
52. (According to him) all or many of his former girlfriends are "nuts" or emotionally unbalanced. Watch out for the "I did this bad thing, BUT... SHE brought it out in me.... and I won't be that way with you..." or worse... the "I'm not sure if I won't do this again, but with the RIGHT woman to BELIEVE in me..."
53. He seems like a "lost puppy" in need of care. (Get help for yourself for even being attracted.)
54. He has ANY history of childhood abuse (abusive parents or siblings), ESPECIALLY (but not limited to) sexual abuse, and he hasn't been in YEARS of therapy (and I mean YEARS - like a decade or more, depending on his age), working through his issues. Men who were abused have a very strong tendency to become abusers. It takes many many years of therapy to overcome this, if they can at all. And when they start therapy, they often get worse before they get better. Manipulative men who have been in therapy for only a year or so or are probably at the WORST stage to get involved with.
55. He/She is on the rebound - i.e. less than 1.5 years after a major breakup from a long-term relationship.
56. He's seeing someone else (and he is intimate with them) and he falls for you. It may seem very flattering, but he'll only do the same thing to you later. It's a sick pattern and it ISN'T going to stop with YOU.
57. He tells you all the ways you are alike and seems to find more similarities with each passing day - he's setting you up. He's "mirroring" you to be more attractive. It's another abuser/controller pattern.
58. He/She wants to get married before you have known each other for more than 1-2 years and haven't even lived together yet. It takes at least 1.5yrs for the "hormone rush" of infatuation to wear off, and the true colours to start to emerge, depending on how quickly you individuate away from the "joined at the hip" phase.
59. He starts doing things incongruent with the person you THOUGHT you first got to know. People are always on their best behavior during the "courtship" phase. If that behavior starts to degrade and change into little nasty digs, or lies, or other forms of abuse, DITCH him before it gets worse. Don't wait around hoping the the guy you first fell in love with is going to resurface - that was obviously a False Image designed to hook you.
60. He/She takes pride in how he/she "screwed over" the ex financially in the divorce.
61. He renegs on or "forgets" any financial agreement the two of you had - such as to share the rent on a basement apartment you both worked on to fix up.
62. He insists that you remain financially independent and then complains when you can't afford the same level of entertainment and travel that HE can.
63. He seems "too good to be true" - he probably IS (not TRUE, that is).
64. He is constantly "down" and has a variety of excuses - his back hurts, he doesn't get enough light, you are keeping him awake at night so he doesn't get enough sleep, he hasn't had enough to eat that day, etc.
65. He suffers from some kind of chronic pain, such as back pain, but refuses to get any treatment for it, and then uses it as an excuse for why he is irritable, inconsiderate and even nasty.
66. He continually rejects your ideas for things to do, (dates) places to go, etc.
67. He "forgets" critical things that he has KNOWN for years, like the fact that you are allergic to feathers (and buys a feather comforter for the bed, or a feather pillow).
68. You *clearly* and openly state your expectations and needs, in a calm and caring fashion, you are told that you are being "controlling" or "manipulative" or "too sensitive".
69. He tells snide joking insults about you in front of others. If you complain, he says it was all in fun and you are just being too sensitive.
70. You are moving out of the infatuation phase and find yourself having to constantly reassure him that you love him and will be there, simply because you are no longer spending every waking minute (outside of work) with him. He continually complains about the lack of "intensity" in your relationship and implies that YOU are the one responsible for not keeping it up.
71. He used to be completely interested in anything you had to say, and now starts showing disinterest in topics that interest you, to the point of rudeness. He won't even listen out of politeness or courtesy. Complains that you don't talk about HIM enough, or listen to HIM enough, and that what you are interested in, isn't interesting to HIM. Expects YOU, however to be interested in ANYTHING *he* is interested in.
72. You have to keep proving yourself worthy of his attention or love. You get attention withdrawn if you ask for responsible behavior or in any way indicate that you were not happy with something he did.
73. He tells you many or all of his deep dark secrets, early on. It seems like he is really sensitive and opening up to you. This is often a tactic that manipulators use to get you to think that YOU are so special that they can only open up like that to YOU. It's just a technique. They do it with EVERYONE. They also do it to "cover" for their previous bad behavior, - if they TELL you about it, it MUST mean they are working on it and won't do it again... (though they NEVER ACTUALLY SAY THAT... they imply it heavily). The goal is to cover their tracks in case you happen to hear something from anyone else - this ensures that they have good cover story well in hand, as well as giving them the advantage of already convincing you of THEIR version before anyone else can get you. And the act of telling you about their bad behavior in the past will become a great caveat/excuse in future if they enact it on you - "well I TOLD you I was a manipulator, and that I was TRYING to change..." the implication being that you just weren't SPECIAL enough, after all... or that you aren't trying hard enough... Watch what they DO, not what they say.
74. He/she continually wants to discuss "the relationship", and is always finding problems or faults with it, and/or starts insisting/implying that all the relationship problems are YOUR fault.
75. He/She puts on a *very* different demeanor, a different personna, when at work or with another group of people. He/she seems to be a chameleon depending on who they are with - instead of being one *real* person. If questioned, gets defensive and insists that they just have many "facets" to their personality, implying that you just don't fully "accept" them as they are.
76. He uses money to win influence and/or get attention, not because he is genuinely altruistic or generous in nature - for example, he drops hundreds or thousands of dollars on "donations" to charitable organizations (so he can get VIP status at their functions), but won't loan you his $5 beat-up old backpack.
77. She doesn't eat.
78. He's in a real hurry to get married, right now, right away!
79. He's an ex-con. For some women, this still isn't enough, for some reason.
80. Over 30 and still living at home.
81. His/her whole social life revolves around his/her parents.
82. On the first date, already talks about marriage or kids. (This is even out on the 2nd or 3rd date)
83. After only one or two dates, gets overly possessive. Calls constantly, sends gifts, shows up at work.
84. His entire wardrobe consists of clothes from trade shows like Comdex, bearing the logos of software and gaming companies.
85. He stockpiles weapons.
86. He has kids with various women and never sees them.
87. He/She has long history of getting involved with losers, deadbeats, drug addicts.
88. She still calls her mother every time she has to make a major life decision.
89. He/she says things like "you're everything to me. I can't live without you."
90. Everyone hates him- your friends, your parents, even your dog.
91. He/she is under 23 and has already been married and divorced and has kids.
92. He/she can't hold a job for more than three months.
93. He shows signs of pennypinching. For example, a guy who only goes to the rep theatre because he has a special card, and then won't even buy a popcorn but eats out of your container all night and shares your soda. Then won't even go out for a beer after, even if it's a weekend. His clothes are ten years old or more.
94. He uses "bitch" as a term of endearment.
95. He supports his driving under the influence of drugs and alcohol with the phrase, "I'm a professional!" (The fact that drugs are present should be red flag anyway, but not everyone feels that way.)
96. He goes out of his way to be rude and condescending to waitstaff and gets a kick out of their discomfort.
97. He supports his argument against condoms by saying, "I never wear them."
98. He tells you not to get "illusions of grandeur" in regard to marrying him.
99. Sports programs preempt visits with his children on a regular basis.
100. This is a big one: HE DOWNPLAYS AND DEGRADES ALL OF THE "RULES" PEOPLE FOLLOW WHEN DATING. HE COMPLAINS THAT WOMEN ALWAYS MAKE MEN JUMP THROUGH HOOPS. HE FOCUSES ON THESE TWO IN MOST CONVERSATIONS FROM THE FIRST DATE ON. His way of getting around the rules is to repeat, "Ours isn't a conventional relationship. We're not like all of those other people out there who have to have boundaries."
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