My ACoA and denial

Old 02-10-2015, 08:04 AM
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My ACoA and denial

I have been searching for an answer to my question without having to post but I can't find anything so I need to ask...

Has anyone ever had the ACoA in their life vehemently deny that they have any problems having been raised by an alcoholic? My H will deny until he's blue in the face that he had a chaotic or stressful upbringing. I don't force it on him but I have asked him to get help.

Please help me to understand. Will he ever get help? Will he ever admit that his childhood was not healthy? I see and read about so many individuals who have sought help as ACoAs themselves. Why does he deny any aid for himself?
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Old 02-10-2015, 08:20 AM
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Wife....you might find this article helpful. "Addiction, Lies and Relationships". written by Floyd P. Garrett. You can find it by doing a google search. You might find the website that it is on ....bma-wellness.com....very informative.

To me, it sounds like it is part of his general denial. also, I don't know, but it may have been his "normal". If that is all he knew...it might be normal for HIM.
In addition, he might feel like you are making a "negative" judgement about his family circumstances and, therefore him, by extension.
These are just possibilities that occur to me as maybe.....

dandylion

***if a person feels some shame or have very low self esteem....any thing, even if true, can seem like a criticism or a put-down to them.
Some people are exquistely sensitive, that way. This is why, I think, that their help or "enlightment" is best to come for any place in the universe, rather than their l oved one (you)....
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Old 02-10-2015, 08:29 AM
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I didn't see my damage for a long, long, long time.

What damage I acknowledged I thought I had fixed/healed & then I promptly closed the door on all of it without realizing I really only understood about 1% of it all around. Many of my issues masqueraded as strengths too, so it was very difficult for me to view those traits in a different light.

My husband's addiction brought me to recovery, but my primary damage, my core changes that needed to be made, started decades before I ever met him when I was born to a father with a very active addiction.
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Old 02-10-2015, 09:00 AM
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I think that the enlightenment coming from somewhere else other than me is quite true. I want so badly to give him a book on ACoA or lead him to a website but I worry that that will send him running far away. I have talked with him over the years and when we were first married almost 13 years ago he said that his father's alcoholism was not good. But never has he ever said that his father's drinking affected him. The AF was always someone to fix for him. I'll go and look at the article.
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Old 02-10-2015, 09:09 AM
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I will share my experience. My mother was an alcoholic. I think. I didn't admit that until I was 40 and divorcing my alcoholic husband. My father worked a job that kept him away from home all but a few days a year. They did not have a happy marriage. Both parents were ACOA and had some tell tale 'symptoms' of that. That is my assessment looking backwards - of course I was a kid at the time so I didn't know anything. I accept and understand that my childhood was not the ideal but I just do not see it as chaotic or bad. That is just not my experience of it. I loved both my parents and I have many many many warm and wonderful memories. I felt loved by each of them. I was not abused in anyway, or neglected. I was encouraged and supported in my personal goals. It did not feel like ongoing trauma or drama. It was just my childhood, for better or for worse. I do not have resentments or bad feelings about my parents or their parenting. No one is going to convince me it was bad because it doesn't feel that way to me - even now with hindsight, detachment, and some recovery.

Someone with the experience of two parents, no addictions, healthy relationships, etc. might see it different :shrug:

Not that it didn't shape me in any way. I can see where I, as an ACoA, brought some very unhealthy behaviors, coping mechanisms, and issues to my marriage. I can see and accept that they originated in my family of origin and the dysfunctional framework it had.

You might get further by identifying what it is he is doing to erode your relationship and approaching him with that specific behavior, how it affects you, and asking him if he'd be willing to work on that in counseling or whatever. Let the counselor help him work though FOO issues.

dandylion that is a great site and a great read. Thank you. A quote from the article.....

Addiction protects and augments itself by means of a bodyguard of lies, distortions and evasions that taken together amount to a full scale assault upon consensual reality. Because addiction involves irrational and unhealthy thinking and behavior, its presence results in cognitive dissonance both within the addict himself and in the intersubjective realm of ongoing personal relationships.
Who knew one paragraph could so succinctly sum up the progression of my marriage experience!
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Old 02-10-2015, 09:15 AM
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Wife...most people that I have known, who were with an alcoholic in denial, tried over and over to "enlighten" and "educate" by the presentation of books, articles, programs, movies, discussions, brochures, letters, etc......all to no avail. The denial is stronger than we are, in this respect. Our efforts seem to make them all the more resentful and unwilling to receive "information". It causes them to close their mind even tighter.

This is why and because their journey to recovery is theirs, alone. "When the student is ready (READY) the teacher will come." You will need to put his recovery on his shoulders...and, let the Universe do the work....and take the burden of this work off y our own shoulders.
"Take A Load off Annie"

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Old 02-10-2015, 09:35 AM
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for some reason I totally missed that he was an alcoholic as well. I'm sorry. He has to deal with that first IMO. Now it makes more sense why dandylion directed you to that link - I was scratching my head at first, lol. Totally agree with her last post too. That dandy - she's a wise one

I even had my coffee this morning so I'm not sure what my excuse is :P
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by wifeofanACoA View Post
I have been searching for an answer to my question without having to post but I can't find anything so I need to ask...

Has anyone ever had the ACoA in their life vehemently deny that they have any problems having been raised by an alcoholic? My H will deny until he's blue in the face that he had a chaotic or stressful upbringing. I don't force it on him but I have asked him to get help.

Please help me to understand. Will he ever get help? Will he ever admit that his childhood was not healthy? I see and read about so many individuals who have sought help as ACoAs themselves. Why does he deny any aid for himself?

**UGH** this is frustrating isn't it. My story is similar for my mother. She was raised in a very abusive alcoholic home - she knows this and talks openly about it but don't you dare try and tell her she needs help! OMG, the fires of hell open and earth trembles. I am not kidding. I love her dearly but I have her to thank for my codependency. (She would never speak to me again if I ever spoke those words to her!)

I "learned" how to control everything around me (so I thought) because of my upbringing - BUT I can and will stop the madness for my own children, at least that is my plan
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:16 AM
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There's no way I'm going to say anything as insightful as what's a already been said. I'm not an ACoA. My father, however, is. In his nineties he's able to have insights into himself that he wasn't able to have as a younger man. But even still, if my mother were to tell him that she thought he had issues because of his alcoholic father.... well.... I can only imagine the firestorm that would erupt.

Not because she had said anything he disagreed with, but because it was her saying it.


Boy, howdy! That would be an argument for the books. She'd bring up his family, he'd counter with hers. Entire family trees would be defoliated in their scorched earth warfare tactics.

They've been married close to 65 years because they know what not to talk about.

Perhaps you're putting things in the wrong order. You want him to get help. Does he even think he has a problem? You however know that you have a problem. (With him.) What are you doing for yourself? I know you're coming here to SR. That's fantastic. Are you seeking any other sort of counseling? Alanon?

I suspect your energy would be better spent focusing on yourself. Sounds like he can't hear you right now anyway.
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Old 02-10-2015, 11:42 AM
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He will only get help if HE thinks he needs it so I suggest letting it go. Unfortunately many men are raised to think that asking for help is a sign of weakness or failure and won't let themselves see their own pain.
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Old 02-10-2015, 01:31 PM
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He is in denial.............



Originally Posted by wifeofanACoA View Post
I have been searching for an answer to my question without having to post but I can't find anything so I need to ask...

Has anyone ever had the ACoA in their life vehemently deny that they have any problems having been raised by an alcoholic? My H will deny until he's blue in the face that he had a chaotic or stressful upbringing. I don't force it on him but I have asked him to get help.

Please help me to understand. Will he ever get help? Will he ever admit that his childhood was not healthy? I see and read about so many individuals who have sought help as ACoAs themselves. Why does he deny any aid for himself?
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Old 02-10-2015, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
for some reason I totally missed that he was an alcoholic as well.
But I don't think he is... maybe I missed something? If I remember Wife's predicament, he's just emotionless and treats her like she doesn't matter. Maybe Wife can clear this up for us.

ETA: And Wife... you DO matter! And you deserve more respect from him.
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Old 02-10-2015, 02:04 PM
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He isn't an alcoholic. Well, I don't think so. I never see him drink but recently he was hiding alcohol in our hallway closet and had tapped into that. When I found it he said that it was for a cold. If he is drinking then he's always doing it while he's away from home for work.

He's an ACoA who doesn't treat me very well and I would say that the biggest thing in more recent months is that he denies any cruel behaviour even if he just did it. Most recently he denied our daughter physical affection (a hug and kiss goodnight - he ALWAYS kisses her goodnight when he is home) because she wasn't 'being good' and doing what he wanted a couple of hours prior.

I'm always back here trying to sort out my life and current situation again and again. I do get that he's in denial, I am understanding that enlightenment from me only makes things worse, and that I need to put energy into myself more but I am not entirely sure of what to do. I feel as though if he could stop blaming me and just say 'sorry' then perhaps I could move forward.
But he never thinks that he's done anything wrong so he tells me that he doesn't need to apologize.

I realize that there are many on here who love and cherish their other half despite so many ups and downs and unfortunately I do not feel as strong as some of you. It is very difficult to forgive someone who does not want forgiveness and it is difficult to love someone who you're sometimes just plain scared of. He can be so many nice things but then at other moments I don't even know who he is.

I feel as though I could forgive better if he could genuinely say, "I have no excuse for the way I've treated you. I'm sorry." but instead I get, "I did this because you were acting like this... I did it because it was the right thing... I needed to teach you not to be like that... etc."

I am seeing a counselor for myself.
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Old 02-10-2015, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by knowthetriggers View Post
She was raised in a very abusive alcoholic home - she knows this and talks openly about it but don't you dare try and tell her she needs help! OMG, the fires of hell open and earth trembles. I am not kidding. [B][I] I l
Thanks. Your 'fires of hell' made me laugh because this is what happens. I'm not trying to tell him that something is wrong 'with' him. I just want the bad treatment of the kids and I to end. Yet, when he sees nothing wrong with the way we're treated it doesn't really change. *sigh* I just want a healthy relationship.

My counselor told me a couple of weeks ago that acceptance of who he is, as he is will help him more. Basically, don't say anything about him needing help. I didn't realize before that my hope of helping created more problems.

I just don't know how to hold on through waiting for him to even see that change is needed. I keep having pieces of me crumble off while trying to endure less-than-best treatment at times and it is wearing me down.
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Old 02-10-2015, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by wifeofanACoA View Post
My counselor told me a couple of weeks ago that acceptance of who he is, as he is will help him more.
I'm not sure what to make of this. Was the counselor implying that you should be trying to help him?

What about you?
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Old 02-10-2015, 02:35 PM
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I just want the bad treatment of the kids and I to end. Yet, when he sees nothing wrong with the way we're treated it doesn't really change. *sigh* I just want a healthy relationship.
Wife, do you see the disconnect here? You want "a healthy relationship." You want "the bad treatment of you and the kids" to end. But the A sees nothing wrong w/the way you are treated. What would give you any idea that things would be changing? I don't mean to come across as brutal, but he sounds as if he has zero interest in changing, so I'm not sure what your expectations of change are based on.

My counselor told me a couple of weeks ago that acceptance of who he is, as he is will help him more. Basically, don't say anything about him needing help. I didn't realize before that my hope of helping created more problems.
Your "hope of helping him" is only creating problems for one person--YOU (and the kids). If your counselor has given you any idea that anything you've done or not done--ANYTHING--is the cause of your A's behavior, you need to find another counselor who has some knowledge of alcoholism and addictions. You did not cause it, you can't control it, and you sure as hell can't cure it. It is NOT up to YOU to "help him more" by accepting him. It is up to you to take care of yourself and your kids, NOT a grown man who is able to take care of himself!

I just don't know how to hold on through waiting for him to even see that change is needed. I keep having pieces of me crumble off while trying to endure less-than-best treatment at times and it is wearing me down.
Wife, you do not have to "endure" treatment and behavior that you find unacceptable. A marriage is not a mutual suicide pact. You are NOT obliged to go down w/the ship. You have every right to seek happiness and peace for yourself and your kids. Let go of your A. Turn him over to the Universe. You have not lost the battle, it was never yours to win in the first place. I see it's been well over 3 years since you joined SR--surely by now you've read many posts that say "nothing changes if nothing changes", right?

Please consider Alanon, and please consider a different counselor, one with YOUR interests at heart.
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Old 02-10-2015, 02:53 PM
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Hi Wife.

I am an ACoA. I had many opportunities to recognize that my upbringing had left scars on me that destroyed my ability to have healthy relationships as an adult. I was 19 before I even knew I had been raised in an alcoholic home -- my sister had to tell me. I always just thought Mom was angry and controlling. Even after reading a book that could have been written about my own family called Adult Children of Alcoholics I was STILL in denial that I had been affected. I just didn't know that the way I looked at the world wasn't healthy. I had never know anything else. I thought relationships had to be chaotic and melodramatic in order to have meaning. I did not know what love was.

It took my first marriage imploding for me to recognize that I was sick. I imploded it myself without ever feeling in control of the actions I was taking to destroy my own marriage. I had finally found someone who was not a jerk, and because I didn't believe I deserved real happiness, I screwed up the marriage myself.

It took many many years of pain and suffering to get me out of denial and into therapy. Today I am grateful to have been able to salvage a close friendship with my ex-husband, to have gone from being someone with no sense of self to someone with a strong self-esteem who knows how to make and enforce personal boundaries, and to have forged ahead into a new marriage based on love, mutual respect and acceptance, trust, and communication. I hope your husband will one day learn to recognize that he did not deserve the childhood he got and want something better for himself, but I cannot in good conscience recommend that you wait around for that to happen.

The damage done to ACoA's is formidable, though not insurmountable. But no one can move past obstacles they simply refuse to see. He learned all of these coping mechanisms in order to survive his childhood -- can you imagine how terrifying it would be to admit that they are no longer relevant? That he has to learn an entire new way of looking at the world and at himself?

Sending you strength and courage to navigate your way through this. We're here for you.
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Old 02-10-2015, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SparkleKitty View Post
The damage done to ACoA's is formidable, though not insurmountable. But no one can move past obstacles they simply refuse to see. He learned all of these coping mechanisms in order to survive his childhood -- can you imagine how terrifying it would be to admit that they are no longer relevant? That he has to learn an entire new way of looking at the world and at himself?
I forgot to mention that my A is also an ACoA. Much of what you describe is familiar to me. He has finally gone to a couple of Alanon meetings in addition to AA, but he is even more unwilling to address that side of it than the A side.

Sparkle Kitty said it well, and truthfully.
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Old 02-10-2015, 03:14 PM
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Wife...I have never heard of someone hiding alcohol who wasn't an alcoholic.
I gather that this behavior has been going on for a long time.
You are not going to change him.
You can only take action in the behalf of you and your child.
It is up to you how much of this behavior you are going to live with.
If you are looking to him as the solution....I'm sorry to say that you are looking in the wrong direction.

I agree with honeypig....alanon would be a good place to start---unless abuse is part of the picture....perhaps talk to you counselor about this.
If you have been on this forum many times in the past...surely, alanon has been suggested...?
You say that you are "scared" of him?

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Old 02-10-2015, 03:39 PM
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Thank you all for your straightforward replies. Please know that I'm never hurt by them but am SO BEYOND thankful for having words spoken/written without any room for misunderstanding because I need blunt counsel when at times I simply get so clouded in my thinking that I can't see the sunshine through the rain.

My counselor was talking about how we need to accept that we can't change other people and that I can't keep saying to him, "You need help. Please get help." because essentially that will and has done nothing. - if that helps with understanding where she's coming from.

I have been to Al-Anon and yes, I see that I need to be going again since so many are advising it.

As for being scared of him, I'm scared of his reactions. Sometimes he's quiet when he hears something he doesn't want to hear and sometimes he just lashes out. He was screaming at the kids that they kept leaving the hallway light on and kept taking things away from them because they wouldn't keep it off. I was scared to approach him but I did and let him know that that was not healthy to be yelling about a light being on. I was scared because I never know what's going to happen.
He doesn't hit me but if his anger flares it's very intimidating and I work hard to speak up for the kids and myself in order to get him to ease off a bit.

I am so very thankful, so beyond thankful for the support on here. On hard days SR is one of the only things that keeps me grounded.
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