Thumper

Don't take her self-centered and entitled attitude out on yourself! You are a great mom. Here are my thoughts.....

I don't think 20yo's are supposed to be happy at home necessarily. Developmentally they get tired of living under a parents rule - even if they are reasonable rules. I'd tell her Happy trails - go forward and let the dishes set in your own kitchen - I won't say a word about them! There are exceptions to that rule of course but I hated living with my mother and I had a great mom and didn't even mind doing the chores! I did most of them. I was just independent, obstinate, self centered, and rebellious and wanted to stay out late without calling my mom

I leave chore lists for my kids and they get in phases of not doing them - usually when I'm overwhelmed and lax on the follow through. I can't stand when certain chores are not done so I do them - but I cut off the internet - which is the ultimate consequence in my house.


No chores no perks.

SparkleKitty

B, Lillamy beat me to the post about how you talk to yourself! Still I wouldn't be me if I didn't pop in and remind you about the "can'ts" and "nevers" and "alwayses"!!

The way we talk to ourselves is IMPORTANT, especially when we're very emotional. We can either compound the emotion or diffuse it with the way we think it through. I know how hard it is and I really do believe you're showing progress, my friend. Keep sharing, and keep being nice to yourself!

dandylion

This is what I have n oticed....that in cultures or certain situations where adult children or extended family occupy the same living quarters...it has been long established that ALL members contribute to the functioning of the family....regardless of age.
Boundaries for this have been established and understood from the earliest ages.
The necessity for interdependent responsibility is groomed into everyones' value system.
It is quite collectivist, in this respect.
In our current western, modern family structures...it is usually an expectation that the young leave the family home at the point of independence or maturity. When this doesn't happen..there is often a war that is waged around the whole issue of dependence/independence issues.
Whether or not family tranquility can be achieved depends on the outcome of that "war".

Just saying....

dandylion

Butterfly

Thank you. I tried to speak to her last night and she told me she was depressed, couldn't tell me what about. I reminded her that she had spoken to me about this a few weeks ago and told me that the Dr had referred her for support, she then denied telling me this but I knew she had. So she lied to me again, this is becoming a feature. I tried to talk to her about feeling low and what she can do to help herself she then told me it would be better if I didn't constantly go on at her to do things, she just wants to do things when she wants and doesn't see an issue with it. I told her very firmly that wasn't going to happen I was calm throughout.

I've been thinking about this today and kinda feel that she may have been trying to manipulate me into giving into her? I don't know but I was thinking about my response to my ex and his behaviour and it would have been anger initially then I'd soften because he was feeling low and guilty and id step into running about after him and making sure he felt better. I felt she was acting like him and wanting me to respond the way I have previously to him. I have taught her to behave this way.

I have encouraged her to see her Dr but she hasn't yet, I did come home from work today and she had done the dishes, put a wash on and folded the laundry and taken it upstairs.

I don't know I could be wrong I can't really trust my own judgement at the minute.

Thumper

I think your judgement is right on the mark. So impressed with how you handled the conversation !!!!

Butterfly

Thanks thumper.

CodeJob

Sounds like you won a round here Butterfly! Also, I agree with your assessment that she KNOWS how to play you from watching your previous behavior with H, so good call!

Keep up the good effort!

NWGRITS

She grew up in an alcoholic home. That's pretty miserable, and it makes us children basically mini-A's and codies because we learn from our parents. She's just acting as she's always seen modeled for her. The only way out of that is good therapy and some sort of support program.

Hawkeye13

I have to agree with this--children growing up with this really do live it out later in most cases. I certainly have.

I think you really did well in noticing that she was manipulating you with emotional guilt.
She has seen that work many times with you in the past, so naturally when you stood up to the tantrum, this was the next step.

Nothing changes if nothing changes, but you, Butterfly, are changing.
Believe it or not, this means a brighter future for you and your kids.
She can learn how to relate in a more healthy way in the same way
you can learn not to speak in absolutes and to love yourself a little more each day.

I remember when I first started to try and love and accept myself.
It seemed both illogical and impossible.
Not anymore. Now I see that is the the most critical gift I can give myself and my family.

None of us are doomed.
A better life is "built" (not wished for) by a series of small decisions and daily reflective actions.
You have already begun this process.

Butterfly

It's hard to listen to my gut feelings after I ignored them for so long but thank ,you for reassuring me that I'm not over reacting or reading into things too much.

I have encouraged both my kids to attend alateen, counselling and a friends husband who works with children of alcoholics has offered to talk to them but they have refused. I can't force them given their ages. DD seems to be struggling more so than DS, he is definitely more relaxed and not as moody as he was when ex was at home. DD Was moody but I didn't notice it as much as I was always trying to keep the peace between her and ex and stop him from going off on one with her, I did this with DS also but he does seem happier since he left! DD has said the home is more peaceful and relaxed since he left.

DS has handled it all well his view is he should know better, DD is deeply hurt by him, she was very upset last week when she said about doing something for his birthday and he said no as he had arrangements with friends so they agreed another night, when she went up she said he was sleeping, and wouldn't get up now it was 5pm I think he was drunk but don't know as she wouldn't say she was angry and upset but why else would he not get up to spend time with his DD after complaining so much that she wants nothing to do with him!!

I'm trying to be careful to manage behaviour but also be considerate about what she is going through!

Thank you everyone, I really did hit such a low when she said what she said, but you have pulled me back up.

dandylion

Butterfly...changing patterns isn't easy. Being consistent over a period of time is necessary.
Other people who are affected by our change in behavior (patterns) will react..and, sometimes, negatively to our changes.
...So, it is like cleaning house...even though it is the right thing to do, it can get worse before it gets better!...lol.

dandylion

NWGRITS

Children of addicts/alcoholics don't know what to do with peace and calm. We need chaos like the A needs alcohol because it's all we've known. It's going to take a lot of time and work on herself to adjust. I'm 31 and still learning how to function without finding things to freak out about when the going is good. It's ingrained, learned behavior. Keep encouraging without demanding. If you model proper behavior, they're more likely to want whatever you have.

FeelingGreat

Butterfly, it sounds like you've handled it very well.

Duckygirl1

Miserable people will be miserable no matter what. The unhappiness that she and your X felt was/is/and shall always be in their own heads until they acknowledge and change it for themselves. It's not your job.

I asked my daughter to do dishes once when she was in high school and fully in her addiction. I came home to find a spotless kitchen. Opened the cabinets to get a glass and everyone of my dishes were gone. On a gut feeling I looked in a dumpster outside of our building. Sure enough every one of my dishes, pots pans etc. we're thrown out. I called her on her phone and said slowly through clenched teeth " little girl, did you throw out my dishes?" "She started " but mom. . ." I cut her off and said "yes or no. Did you throw out my dishes." She said yes, I told her for both our sakes she should NOT come home. Sleep at a friends house, in the park wherever. If she could not respect this home she no longer had one. Go anywhere, But DO NOT walk in the door or I might hurt you. I was beyond it.
She stayed at a friends house for a week and when she realized no matter where she went there were rules and she would have to fend for herself she got smart. It got worse before it got better as being a grown up was harder than she thought. Today she knows where it all went wrong and takes full responsibility. Let little princess prissy pants feel the weight of life.

Butterfly

Thanks Nwgrits i didn't realise that struggling with the calm and waiting for the next crisis to hit affected the kids aswell. I think I'm starting to understand that maybe I didn't protect them from witnessing as much as I thought I had although I did try.

Refiner

I'd be depressed too if I was 20 years old and still living at home. I hope she finds her place in her adult world for both of your benefits.

LemonGirl

Maybe the idea that it is your job to create a happy home is more of a problem than you'd like it to be. Isn't your daughter responsible for her own happiness? And you for yours? We all have our moods and means of coping. My suggestion would be to detach; don't take her moods personally because they reflect herself and not you. She is at an age where she has to start applying whatever it is she has learned. We cannot control our children; we can only prepare them.

Sadly, as for myself, I feel I failed in that a little with teaching my daughters responsibility, how to say NO, and what a healthy happy relationship with a man looks like. Gotta forgive myself for that one and move forward. At some point, no mattter what I've taught them by my behaviors, they will have to take responsibility for their own behaviors....

NWGRITS

Children are always more observant and aware than anyone will ever give them credit for. I remember getting my butt torn up when I was about 7 for replying to someone when they asked why my mom never showed up to peewee football games to watch me cheer: "She can't come. She goes to the bar on Saturdays." Yes, we know. But when you're in the throes of someone else's addiction, denial is your best friend. Work on doing better from here on out. It's not too late for her. If I can turn my life around, anyone can (trust me. I could never be famous because I'd be a tabloid headline cash cow).

dandylion

HMA....sorry, to intrude on butterfly's thread....but your statement:
"WE CAN'T CONTROL OUR CHILDREN; WE CAN ONLY PREPARE THEM"....this should be in flashing neon signs at the top of Times Square...so that all the mothers get a chance to see it.

dandylion

Butterfly

Thanks HMA im working on forgiving myself, not easy!! Yes dandylion I agree every mum should see this sign!!

Nwgrits thank you DS says he can't remember dads drinking when he was younger only later years when he began staying up all night drinking. DD doesn't say much!! I guess when ds was younger ex A drank away from the home he probably knew but it may not as been as obvious Dd probably saw more and remembers her dad looking after her being drunk!!