hopeful4

This...me too. Celebrate Recovery does not say this, but there are many who imply it. I don't agree. I think of all of it as with any big organization, take what you want and leave the rest. When an organization is large and made for many, there will be things you agree on and things you don't. If you get any help at all from the things you agree on, it's a win.

I do think for you the DV counseling is the most important. You may want to try Alanon or a different group support sometime in the future when you are ready. If not, that's ok too.

Tight hugs my friend.

ardy

just Wow... I think the people in these groups are better than any type of group I have walked into... for you are all so open and honest and true for what you have to say.. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart. ardy...

INgal

I have been accused of being "sick" with my obsession over my AS's addiction. I'm actually going to write this at the risk of sounding insane. I have:

-the ability to check all phone records, plus have restrictions on my son's account..blocking "bad influences", time restrictions, etc.

-a hidden GPS on his car so that I can find out where he is when he says he will be home at a certain time and he doesn't show.

-his email password to check all mail

- I administer the Antabuse so that I'm sure he is taking it.

In the past, I have called multiple people looking for him. I've gotten on a first name basis with lawyers, cops, and probation officers in order to make the punishment less. I've hidden keys, poured out alcohol, threatened his friends with calling the police on them if they let him drive drunk, etc.

I KNOW this is crazy. I've lost 5 years of my life to this insanity.
However, I cannot let go of the feeling that I want to be ready when the other shoe drops, as it continually has.

The problem is that he has some incredible qualities and as a family we have all been brought up to support one another. I also know he has underlying mental illness that has never been properly addressed. If he were a truly hateful person 24/7 it would be so much easier to detach.

He is currently in an IOP and says this is it. I just don't know how to give up control and let the chips fall where they may.

Ok, I'm ready...bring on the comments!

hopeful4

INgal, my only comment is that I get it. I have done a lot of what you have done too. I thought the same way. Eventually I just had to see that this is toxic to me and our children, and it was changing me into someone I did not want to be. Basically an angry B!

I waited way too long, but it was for me to decide. In the mean time, I can tell you what helped me the most. Celebrate Recovery, Coming to SR, and having a therapist who specializes in helping families with addiction. All of this built me into a stronger person. I knew that no matter what happened I would make it, and my kids would too.

Just know you are understood. While I may not agree, I also look back at myself and don't agree either. It's just that I am in a different place now. I hope no matter what happens that you will be too, because that kind of control will wear you out.

Hugs.

Thumper

Well I know I was sick. I'm glad I'm not him so maybe I don't think I'm quite that bad

The work I had to do to feel better, get better, more functional, happy and peaceful - that work was the same no matter what he was doing or how sick he was.

I do not come at it from a framework of abuse or safety concerns and those differences have already been outlined by those smarter than I.

Also - I ended up where I ended up because I hit *my* bottom and had to make changes. I didn't come here, to SR and recovery in general, to fix him - I came to save myself.

lillamy

INgal -- my sponsor's son is a recovering heroin addict. I've said this before, but one reason why she was such an inspiring (and very no-nonsense) sponsor was that her experience -- to me -- was so much more heart wrenching than mine. I felt like "if she could survive that, I can survive this" the entire way through her working with me.

It may sound harsh, but if I'm to be honest here? You can always find a new spouse if the one you have is an addict. Your kid? Completely different ballgame. If you stalked a spouse the way you're describing you keeping checks on your son, you'd be more than a little codependent kookoocrazy. For sure.

But you know what? I've never walked in the shoes of a parent with a kid with addiction problems. AND comorbidities. I have a kid with a laundry list of mental illnesses, but addiction isn't on the list -- yet. I know that detaching from my child's behaviors and challenges is much, much, much, not even mentionable on the same day harder than doing it with my ex-husband was. It took me a while to accept that my ex was a separate person I had no control over. I'm still working on that with my mentally ill child.

I think at the end of the day, self-care is the key. When you're driving yourself crazy and sick (and I mean that in a physical illness worn out kind of way) trying to save someone else, it's a problem. I hope you have someone caring for YOU as much as you care for your son -- because you will need it.

((((hugs)))

hopeful4

INgal, I am sorry! I read your post wrong and read though this was your spouse.

I agree with Amy, I don't know what I would do if it were a child except the things that I mentioned, which I think still apply. Regardless of who it is, you deserve some sanity in your life.

Hugs!

zoso77

In my personal experience with Al Anon, I have never remotely heard anything from a member that even remotely promotes this belief. I'm sorry if your experience in Al Anon was a negative one.

In my view, what Al Anon promotes is the idea of decoupling from the alcoholic such that we can restore our own lives to sanity. What is also implicit in Al Anon is the concept of choice. In my case, I chose to decouple from my qualifier, with love initially...and then with prejudice after a time.

In your case, however, there are issues with your AXBF that go beyond alcoholism. You do what you have to do to survive and be safe. If there are other programs that have helped you, I'm glad and thankful for that.

FireSprite

Well, I think a lot of it is semantics & subjective based on each individual's perspective. "sicker than" is impossible to gauge - there isn't a unit of measurement for these sorts of things.

I do use the phrase a lot but I'm not an al-anon'er.

I use it because I DO think of myself as sicker than AH was at times. That's *my* opinion of *me*.

I consider myself sicker (at times) because I was a willing participant to the madness. Even without the diagnosis of alcoholism, I CHOSE to accept unacceptable behavior. Some of it was murky & unclear & hard to identify but some of it was clear-cut; I was being taken advantage of & disrespected & I made excuses & allowances for it.

I could have gotten off that roller coaster ANY time, but my long-term codependency as an ACoA convinced me that I was wrong for giving up, to continue to try to find ways to *make* things work, to ignore my needs & self-care & to keep giving more & more & more.

If we're keeping score, my Codie issues stretch back way farther than AH's addiction, years & years. My habits were established long before we met & definitely enabled a nice, cushy place for his dysfunction to breed.

That DOES NOT make me at fault for his resulting addiction problems OR mean that I "asked for" the disrespect/abuse. It doesn't negate anything on his side, it simply helps me understand mine.

As an aside, I've begun watching the TV series, "Intervention" on Netflix recently & I've found myself broken down to tears by the end of every. single. episode. And it's not always because of the addict's behavior that my head spins - some of the ways that they show the family members being affected/behaving/enabling really opened my eyes to how far we are willing to go on this side of things sometimes.

FireSprite

INGal, I do understand what you are saying in your post. Dealing with addiction in my child is the only scenario that I haven't had to deal with in terms of addicts in my life, so I cannot speak from firsthand experience here.

However, in my experience, there is NEVER a way to be fully prepared for that other shoe dropping no matter who is wearing it. If a person is determined to feed their addiction they will also continue to find ways for that to happen. Sometimes we can stay ahead of the game & do so for a long, long time which gives us some sort of false comfort in thinking that we have control of things.... it's a brilliant illusion. Again, idk how frantic I would be if I ever have to face this with DD; I'm not judging you for the choices you've made.

That said, I'm praying for your son. I hope he means it when he says "this is it" and that he's found the AHA moment & heard that internal "click" of change. ((((hugs))))

POAndrea

I only attended one Alanon meeting, and did not return because I felt worse when I left than when I came in. The women in the group were not very welcoming, and one of them said, "well, be grateful you haven't had it as bad as the rest of us." ?!?!?!? How the h3ll does one respond to that, other than to say, "I expect I SHOULD be glad I'm not as bad-off as you"? Another said that I should "know better". I felt judged, like my problems weren't bad enough for me to be seeking support, as if somehow I shouldn't be there because of what I do for a living, that I was doing something wrong that was so awful I didn't deserve any help. Afterwards, I talked with some of them and asked "How are the meetings at the church another ten miles up the road?" only to learn it was the same people only in a different space. This was the nearest meeting and more than 30 miles away, so to go even further for the same $#!+ just didn't seem worth it. I understand that all meeting are NOT like that, but the whole experience was so discouraging I just couldn't talk myself into trying the next place that had meetings which would be an hour and 15 minute drive from my home.

But that was okay, because shortly after that I discovered you wonderful people here on SR. I can't tell you how much of a relief it was to find such a generous group of people who UNDERSTOOD. My heart let out a great big giant sigh. Thank you all for your kindness and support and straight-talk.

Florence

Firesprite, this describes my thoughts on the matter to a tee. Thanks for articulating it so clearly!

theuncertainty

Sending hugs, Meggy. I haven't had a chance to read all the responses yet; I wanted to post so I wouldn't forget what I want to share before getting pulled into the different directions the discussion is likely to go.

I felt the same way in a couple Alanon meetings with the general discussions/readings. I've been lucky, though, because the members have been so supportive. In fact, at my first meeting, over 1/2 of the people there came up to me after my share and asked me if I had someplace safe to go. For the life of me, I cannot remember what I said. I was a bit stunned that they thought DS and I were in danger. I thought I'd just shared the 'standard' dealing with an alcoholic stuff, but I was so confused from dealing with the DV and SA that, really, I couldn't say what was 'standard' and what was abuse. (FWIW, my first Alanon meeting was bit before I realized that I was dealing with DV or SA.) I think what helped me most during the later meetings was just knowing I'd be able to attend a DV support group within a couple days.

AXH was sexually, emotionally and verbally abusive and physically threatening with me. With his next GF, he physically assaulted her as well. I've gone to DV support groups, AlAnon and counseling. I post here when I believe my need for support stems from AXH's addictions, or may be somewhat tied to it at least, or if I think what I went through might help (myself or others) if I shared. I read or post on another board when I feel I need more support for the SA and DV (Pandora's Aquarium).

The website Aphrodite Wounded is another great resource for survivors who were SA'd by their partners. I found it after picking up the book Real Rape, Real Pain: Help for Women Sexually Assaulted by Male Partners by Patricia Easteal and Louise McOrmond-Plummer. (The Aphrodite Wounded site is owned by Louise McOrmand-Plummer.) Through that site, I found the message board Pandora's Aquarium. Even just reading there has been so helpful.

The Lundy Bancroft book that you mentioned, Meggy, Why Does He Do That? was a lifesaver for me. If you haven't checked it out, his website has information about his other books, and other resources.

Wishing you peace and continued strength.

PinkCloudsCharley

I've been to quite a few al-anon meetings, and I don't like them at all. The whole "sick" thing is just one reason they don't sit well with me. And that's ok. It's not one-size-fits-all. It's great if Al-Anon works for some people. It doesn't work for me and that's ok. You don't need to believe it if you don't want to.

Hangnbyathread

Some people feel that Al-Anon has a structure we should all relate to. We all don't. I am of the mind that if we are not the addict, we have free will and control over our actions. My higher power depends on me to make sound choices in my life and its decisions. And if I don't, I learn by consequences. My higher power isn't responsible for any of my outcomes in life. I was once asked have I done the 12 steps. I said yes to the ones that apply to me. I didn't feel that any that relied on a Higher Power were any that applied to me. Oh well then you are the problem because you don't want to work the program. etc etc etc.

And I am learning that there seems to be a lot of variation in structure from group to group. Here where I live, you walk in and its God on he walls, God in the books, Bibles on the tables, Preying at the beginning of the session, preying at the end of the session and God gets named Higher Power in the session, but everyone is using God and the Higher Power interchangeably. You don't have any options but go with that flow.

I was feeling worse after 4 months than better. I wasn't interested in learning to cope with AC, I was interested in getting away from it. And Al-Anon does allow for that. But in my area that escape means we discuss finding God more.

There are lots of personal views here. You haven't offended me, by yours

NYCDoglvr

What Alanon helped me see was that I picked an alcoholic and chose to stay. I became obsessed over a very destructive and self-destructive person. I'm very grateful I was able to be brutally honest with myself and others, because with a lot of work I know I won't make the same mistake again.

I've been to dozens of Alanon meetings and never heard this.

brightdaysahead

I've only been to three Al-Anon meetings so far, and thankfully I haven't heard anyone use this phrase ("sicker than the alcoholic"). It would have ruffled my feathers, too. There's got to be a better choice of words that Al-Anon could have used in its literature.

Go easy on me - it's just my perspective.

meggygoround30

Thank you everyone for your honest responses! I read each and every one so far. I'm glad it sparked a discussion amongst others too. I came off as judgemental in my post which wasn't intentional. After I went to court a few weeks back (testified against AXB for assault and battery) I fell into a bit of a depression and got really tired of feeling sorry for all he went through because he has a disease. I'm going to go ahead and say that I believe there is a fair amount of choice in addiction, at least from my experience and how it relates to domestic violence (solely basing this off of my own experience, not judging all addicts). He doesn't give a crap about me or anyone else but himself. After i got really depressed, I got really angry for the first time in my healing process. Perhaps I might give Alanon another chance, it can't hurt and like you all have said "take what you want and leave the rest." There is a newcomers meeting on Sundays that I could check out and in all honesty I could use the socialization even if it's about alcoholism. Thanks again