Want to help, but so confused
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 4
Want to help, but so confused
Hi Guys
I'm new here, and this is my first post, I decided to join in the hope of some helpful, independent advice from those who understand.
A couple of weeks ago I confronted my boyfriend about his drinking, I tried very hard to address it with diplomacy, understanding, and support. I wrote down what I needed to say so I didn't forget anything, or lose my way of approach. I worded it so that alcohol was a third party, blaming it and the addiction for the causes of my pain, not him, and I made it clear that it was a problem we needed to address together, that I would help and support him through it, but that things needed to change, that I can't go on letting myself be hurt by it. After I had spoken, he insisted on being taken home (we don't live together) which I did, figuring it would take time for my words to sink in, and that was best done with us both having space, but I made sure that I left the letter with him. It took an awful lot of bravery on my part to confront the matter, I knew it would instantly be met with anger and denial, and I was leaving myself open to being subjected to a lot of verbal abuse, as it has been.
I have since been/am doing my very best to persist with love and honesty, and not sink down to the insult and attack level, but at the same time stand my ground. Most of the time I feel like all of the negativity, the indifference, the lack of affection, and all of the other reasons I get hurt by him, I can trace back to being caused by the alcohol. But there are times where I feel like I can't see the woods for the trees, that I can't differentiate the real him, the him I fell in love with and believe in, the him I keep fighting for, from the stubborn, obstreperous, unpredictable, opinionated drunk.
I have been verbally (well, largely by text message actually) attacked on a personal level from pretty much every direction. I know that it is the alcoholics way, and part of denial, to deflect, and defend with attack, but it has left me doubting myself, and my confidence knocked quite a bit, It is hard to stay strong through that kind of treatment, even though I know that he is just trying to hurt me enough so that I will just leave him, so he can be alone to get on and drink as much as he likes, instead of having to confront the issue, and therefore all of the crap in his life that is/has been caused by it. I'm absolutely sure that this is because it is so terrifying to have to consider the ramifications of his drinking and admit them to himself, it's easier for him to just drink more and block it all out.
My family want me to leave him and move on, but I just can't let go yet. I keep fighting for him, because I know there's truly a loving, caring, thoughtful, affectionate, generous, intelligent guy in there, because he shows himself to me just often enough to remind me that that is the guy I fell in love with. I fell that if I walk away I'd be giving up on him and letting him down. However, I also know that I need to protect myself, that I can't let him break me and take away all that is good about me, and I don't know where to draw the line between showing him that he's loved and believed in, and standing by what I say and walking away for my own happiness. I didn't want to give him an ultimatum, so much as try to make him realise the affect his drinking has on his life and those around him, in the hope that that would give him the drive to choose for himself to want to change. I know I cannot force him to change, and I don't want him to do it for me, I want him to do it for himself. It breaks my heart to see someone filled with so much potential letting them-self go to waste, and throw away the opportunities they have for happiness and fulfillment, for the sake of a drink, because of fear. I've always tried to support and encourage him in everything, but largely get attitude back because he sees it as being nagging, or patronising. He very much has an "I don't need anybody's help" kind of attitude.
He is now of course withdrawing, he won't talk to anyone about this situation we're in. I think this is probably actually because he's secretly scared that someone might back me up, and also because he doesn't really have many people left to turn to. His sister and his Dad (who is/was also an alcoholic, not exactly sure what stage he's at now having only ever met him once) live locally, but never visit him, I had always suspected that this was because of his drinking, which his sister has recently confirmed for me (off her own back, I didn't ask) and her children don't like it when he goes to visit her and turns up with a can of cider in his hand. We got to a similar situation a few months back where he withdrew and wanted to be on his own, have his independence etc etc (his sister told me that he'd said to her that he'd become concerned about his drinking at this time) and I took a lot of crap and heartache then, but stood by him when he apologised and admitted to being selfish, realising how he felt for me etc, and returned once more to the decent guy I love. This change occurred after he talked things through with his best (and only) friend, who has himself given up a regular drinking habit, but seems, I believe to fall off the wagon when around my ABF, causing him troubles with his partner. I have tried to encourage him to see him again, and talk things over, but he resisted vehemntly - no doubt because it was me that suggested it! But that gives me hope that with a bit of time, space, and patience, he will come around again.
ABF is not so deep in denial that he doesn't know he has a problem, last week he admitted to me that he knows he's an alcoholic, but that he will only change for himself, and not be forced into it, which as I said, is exactly what I want to happen! He has been had treatment in the past, along with counseling and CBT, and has managed at times to get sober for short periods. He also suffers from depression and anxiety, and is currently on anti depressants. I think the main issue here is more that I have addressed it, I have made him have to consider it, so his instant and natural reaction is the typical alcoholic response of "nobody tells me what to do", and it's easier to fight that corner, than to take in the truth and deal with it.
Today he asked me why would I want to be with a selfish alcoholic, so I told him again, with love and sincerity, that it is the guy that gets hidden by that who I want, and listed for him all of the positive things I see in him. The response was yet again aggression, being told I don't know him, I don't get it etc etc, that he wasn't going to give up drinking, and was that clear to me. Later he then asked "so am I allowed to have a beer when I want or not". I refrained from answering such a loaded question that left no room for compromise and simply didn't answer the message, nor have I done to any of the attacking message sent since then. Again I think that this is more a knee jerk reaction to me having confronted his drinking, but it has left me wondering where to go next. The switch been moods and awareness is very challenging to know how to correctly deal with. I am currently working on the approach or only respond to him when he civilised to me, and then to do my best to do so with love and normality. However it then easily seems that the issue gets forgotten about. I don't want to keep pushing and make things worse, but I can't let it be ignored either.
Anyway, I seem to have written an extensive essay that is probably far too long, rambling and complicated for anyone to take the time to trawl through (sadly though, I could keep on and say so much more lol). But if anyone does have any help or advice on how I might be able to get the boyfriend I love back and well again, and keep him that way for good, I would be so very grateful. I don't want to lose him and all that is good about him. I'm happy to answer questions and provide more specific details if it helps any willing advisers understand any further.
Thank you in advance to anyone who is kind and patient enough to take the time and energy to read and reply.
From a very sad, scared and confused Incy xx
I'm new here, and this is my first post, I decided to join in the hope of some helpful, independent advice from those who understand.
A couple of weeks ago I confronted my boyfriend about his drinking, I tried very hard to address it with diplomacy, understanding, and support. I wrote down what I needed to say so I didn't forget anything, or lose my way of approach. I worded it so that alcohol was a third party, blaming it and the addiction for the causes of my pain, not him, and I made it clear that it was a problem we needed to address together, that I would help and support him through it, but that things needed to change, that I can't go on letting myself be hurt by it. After I had spoken, he insisted on being taken home (we don't live together) which I did, figuring it would take time for my words to sink in, and that was best done with us both having space, but I made sure that I left the letter with him. It took an awful lot of bravery on my part to confront the matter, I knew it would instantly be met with anger and denial, and I was leaving myself open to being subjected to a lot of verbal abuse, as it has been.
I have since been/am doing my very best to persist with love and honesty, and not sink down to the insult and attack level, but at the same time stand my ground. Most of the time I feel like all of the negativity, the indifference, the lack of affection, and all of the other reasons I get hurt by him, I can trace back to being caused by the alcohol. But there are times where I feel like I can't see the woods for the trees, that I can't differentiate the real him, the him I fell in love with and believe in, the him I keep fighting for, from the stubborn, obstreperous, unpredictable, opinionated drunk.
I have been verbally (well, largely by text message actually) attacked on a personal level from pretty much every direction. I know that it is the alcoholics way, and part of denial, to deflect, and defend with attack, but it has left me doubting myself, and my confidence knocked quite a bit, It is hard to stay strong through that kind of treatment, even though I know that he is just trying to hurt me enough so that I will just leave him, so he can be alone to get on and drink as much as he likes, instead of having to confront the issue, and therefore all of the crap in his life that is/has been caused by it. I'm absolutely sure that this is because it is so terrifying to have to consider the ramifications of his drinking and admit them to himself, it's easier for him to just drink more and block it all out.
My family want me to leave him and move on, but I just can't let go yet. I keep fighting for him, because I know there's truly a loving, caring, thoughtful, affectionate, generous, intelligent guy in there, because he shows himself to me just often enough to remind me that that is the guy I fell in love with. I fell that if I walk away I'd be giving up on him and letting him down. However, I also know that I need to protect myself, that I can't let him break me and take away all that is good about me, and I don't know where to draw the line between showing him that he's loved and believed in, and standing by what I say and walking away for my own happiness. I didn't want to give him an ultimatum, so much as try to make him realise the affect his drinking has on his life and those around him, in the hope that that would give him the drive to choose for himself to want to change. I know I cannot force him to change, and I don't want him to do it for me, I want him to do it for himself. It breaks my heart to see someone filled with so much potential letting them-self go to waste, and throw away the opportunities they have for happiness and fulfillment, for the sake of a drink, because of fear. I've always tried to support and encourage him in everything, but largely get attitude back because he sees it as being nagging, or patronising. He very much has an "I don't need anybody's help" kind of attitude.
He is now of course withdrawing, he won't talk to anyone about this situation we're in. I think this is probably actually because he's secretly scared that someone might back me up, and also because he doesn't really have many people left to turn to. His sister and his Dad (who is/was also an alcoholic, not exactly sure what stage he's at now having only ever met him once) live locally, but never visit him, I had always suspected that this was because of his drinking, which his sister has recently confirmed for me (off her own back, I didn't ask) and her children don't like it when he goes to visit her and turns up with a can of cider in his hand. We got to a similar situation a few months back where he withdrew and wanted to be on his own, have his independence etc etc (his sister told me that he'd said to her that he'd become concerned about his drinking at this time) and I took a lot of crap and heartache then, but stood by him when he apologised and admitted to being selfish, realising how he felt for me etc, and returned once more to the decent guy I love. This change occurred after he talked things through with his best (and only) friend, who has himself given up a regular drinking habit, but seems, I believe to fall off the wagon when around my ABF, causing him troubles with his partner. I have tried to encourage him to see him again, and talk things over, but he resisted vehemntly - no doubt because it was me that suggested it! But that gives me hope that with a bit of time, space, and patience, he will come around again.
ABF is not so deep in denial that he doesn't know he has a problem, last week he admitted to me that he knows he's an alcoholic, but that he will only change for himself, and not be forced into it, which as I said, is exactly what I want to happen! He has been had treatment in the past, along with counseling and CBT, and has managed at times to get sober for short periods. He also suffers from depression and anxiety, and is currently on anti depressants. I think the main issue here is more that I have addressed it, I have made him have to consider it, so his instant and natural reaction is the typical alcoholic response of "nobody tells me what to do", and it's easier to fight that corner, than to take in the truth and deal with it.
Today he asked me why would I want to be with a selfish alcoholic, so I told him again, with love and sincerity, that it is the guy that gets hidden by that who I want, and listed for him all of the positive things I see in him. The response was yet again aggression, being told I don't know him, I don't get it etc etc, that he wasn't going to give up drinking, and was that clear to me. Later he then asked "so am I allowed to have a beer when I want or not". I refrained from answering such a loaded question that left no room for compromise and simply didn't answer the message, nor have I done to any of the attacking message sent since then. Again I think that this is more a knee jerk reaction to me having confronted his drinking, but it has left me wondering where to go next. The switch been moods and awareness is very challenging to know how to correctly deal with. I am currently working on the approach or only respond to him when he civilised to me, and then to do my best to do so with love and normality. However it then easily seems that the issue gets forgotten about. I don't want to keep pushing and make things worse, but I can't let it be ignored either.
Anyway, I seem to have written an extensive essay that is probably far too long, rambling and complicated for anyone to take the time to trawl through (sadly though, I could keep on and say so much more lol). But if anyone does have any help or advice on how I might be able to get the boyfriend I love back and well again, and keep him that way for good, I would be so very grateful. I don't want to lose him and all that is good about him. I'm happy to answer questions and provide more specific details if it helps any willing advisers understand any further.
Thank you in advance to anyone who is kind and patient enough to take the time and energy to read and reply.
From a very sad, scared and confused Incy xx
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 565
Originally Posted by Incy 
But there are times where I feel like I can't see the woods for the trees, that I can't differentiate the real him, the him I fell in love with and believe in, the him I keep fighting for, from the stubborn, obstreperous, unpredictable, opinionated drunk.
And Welcome. Sorry to read about your troubled boyfriend, and the obvious pain you are in trying to hang in with him.
I pulled the above quote because when I first came to SR, one of the most important things I had to face was that my XABF wasn't two guys -the one I adored and the very sick, messed up one he became when he drank - he was one guy with an addiction.
You will find a wealth of great information about addiction and addict behavior here, and you might want to learn about Alanon, too. It's a very supportive program for anyone affected by a loved one's drinking.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 4
Hi spiderqueen
Thank you so much for your response, it means so much just to know that anyone has taken the time to read/listen and reply.
Thank you also for your advice, I guess it's just been easier in a way for me to separate him into "good and bad" to remind myself why I'm doing this, and try and get the point home to him. Did changing your perspective change how you felt about, and dealt with the situation?
Thank you so much for your response, it means so much just to know that anyone has taken the time to read/listen and reply.
Thank you also for your advice, I guess it's just been easier in a way for me to separate him into "good and bad" to remind myself why I'm doing this, and try and get the point home to him. Did changing your perspective change how you felt about, and dealt with the situation?
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Hi, and welcome to SR. I'm a sober alcoholic (six years), have been in two marriages to alcoholics (one got sober and has stayed that way for 35 years, the other is still drinking himself to death), and I know TONS of alcoholics in various stages of recovery.
One thing that comes through loud and clear is that this guy does NOT, at this time, want to quit drinking.
What's the alternative? It sounds as if you made your wishes pretty clear to him, and he has no interest in what you're suggesting. Alcoholism is progressive, so what you see right now is the best you're ever going to see, unless/until he decides for himself that he wants to get sober badly enough to do what it takes to get there. I don't see that he wants it at all, let alone badly enough to change his entire life--which is pretty much what's involved in getting sober and staying that way.
I think if anyone here had such a suggestion, none of us would be here on SR. We'd just make our loved ones sober, keep them that way, and go on to better things.
Here are some truths about alcoholism. Nothing you or anyone else does can get him sober and keep him that way. It's a LOT of hard work, and he is the one who has to do it. And it's a painful enough process that nobody goes through it unless they are pretty desperate to do it.
He WANTS to drink. Do you really have the right to try to force something different on him? You keep talking about his "potential"--yes, alcoholics often have tons of wasted potential (wasted in both senses of the word). But only the individual WITH the potential can realize it.
Getting sober is an inside job. You can't help him by staying with him. You can't make it worse by leaving him.
If you're ok with him as he is now (knowing that it will get worse--maybe a LOT worse) before it gets better, then stay. If you can think of better uses of your OWN potential, and would like a peaceful, drama-free life, then I suggest you consider your family's advice.
One thing that comes through loud and clear is that this guy does NOT, at this time, want to quit drinking.
Originally Posted by Incy
I can't let it be ignored
if anyone does have any help or advice on how I might be able to get the boyfriend I love back and well again, and keep him that way for good, I would be so very grateful.
Here are some truths about alcoholism. Nothing you or anyone else does can get him sober and keep him that way. It's a LOT of hard work, and he is the one who has to do it. And it's a painful enough process that nobody goes through it unless they are pretty desperate to do it.
He WANTS to drink. Do you really have the right to try to force something different on him? You keep talking about his "potential"--yes, alcoholics often have tons of wasted potential (wasted in both senses of the word). But only the individual WITH the potential can realize it.
Getting sober is an inside job. You can't help him by staying with him. You can't make it worse by leaving him.
If you're ok with him as he is now (knowing that it will get worse--maybe a LOT worse) before it gets better, then stay. If you can think of better uses of your OWN potential, and would like a peaceful, drama-free life, then I suggest you consider your family's advice.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 4
Hi Lexie
Thank you for your very honest and up front advice
I have no wish to force him, I know it can only truly come from him, through his own choice. I have just hoped and tried, to give him enough input, to show enough love, offer enough support and encouragement, that he could/would WANT to make that choice for himself, to give him something worth making it for. I guess my aspirations may have been a little high and love is just not enough here.
I guess I know you're right about moving on and fulfilling my own potential, but what I can't understand on that basis, is why I can't/don't want to let go. If I stay I know I will be unhappy, and unfulfilled most of the time, and be living with the constant trepidation of wondering what mood and reaction I will have to endure next, yet I can't seem to bring myself to let go. I feel as if by walking away and leaving him to it, I am just enabling him again, that I'm just letting him down by not being strong enough to persist and stand by him. Maybe I'm just kidding myself and letting my self pride get in the way, I've been made to doubt myself, and had my self confidence knocked so much in the last couple of weeks that I don't trust or believe in who I am, how I act, or the decisions I make right now.
Thank you for your very honest and up front advice
Originally Posted by LexieCat
He WANTS to drink. Do you really have the right to try to force something different on him? You keep talking about his "potential"--yes, alcoholics often have tons of wasted potential (wasted in both senses of the word). But only the individual WITH the potential can realize it.
I guess I know you're right about moving on and fulfilling my own potential, but what I can't understand on that basis, is why I can't/don't want to let go. If I stay I know I will be unhappy, and unfulfilled most of the time, and be living with the constant trepidation of wondering what mood and reaction I will have to endure next, yet I can't seem to bring myself to let go. I feel as if by walking away and leaving him to it, I am just enabling him again, that I'm just letting him down by not being strong enough to persist and stand by him. Maybe I'm just kidding myself and letting my self pride get in the way, I've been made to doubt myself, and had my self confidence knocked so much in the last couple of weeks that I don't trust or believe in who I am, how I act, or the decisions I make right now.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Well, in a way, it's our own egos that trip us up. We really WANT to believe we will be the life-changing magical person whose love will save these troubled souls. I mean, if it were the movies, that's what should happen, right?
If love WERE enough, all our alcoholics would be sober. People on this forum have gone literally through hell, being understanding and supportive, or firm and insistent, you name it. We just aren't that powerful. Alcoholism is described in the Big Book (AA's main book) as "cunning, baffling, powerful." And it is. Neither the alcoholic nor anyone else can outthink it or outmaneuver it. Alcoholism alters the alcoholic's thinking and makes them extremely self-centered, and all that matters is sustaining the disease.
People in AA talk about the "gift of desperation" because that's usually what has to happen before someone is motivated to get sober and stay that way.
As far as I'm concerned, nobody gets brownie points for needless suffering. So if your loyalty isn't going to help him, and only winds up costing you, then you're setting yourself up for a lot of unnecessary pain in this relationship.
But sometimes the family/friends/loved ones need their OWN gift of desperation to make the changes they need to. I'm not saying you should leave and not saying you should go. You have your own pain threshold and it's your life. If you are going to stay, though, I'd strongly suggest you learn what you can about alcoholism, just so you know what you are getting into. Personally, I'd never willingly stay in a relationship with an active alcoholic again (in fact, I'm on indefinite hiatus from relationships, period, for the foreseeable future).
If love WERE enough, all our alcoholics would be sober. People on this forum have gone literally through hell, being understanding and supportive, or firm and insistent, you name it. We just aren't that powerful. Alcoholism is described in the Big Book (AA's main book) as "cunning, baffling, powerful." And it is. Neither the alcoholic nor anyone else can outthink it or outmaneuver it. Alcoholism alters the alcoholic's thinking and makes them extremely self-centered, and all that matters is sustaining the disease.
People in AA talk about the "gift of desperation" because that's usually what has to happen before someone is motivated to get sober and stay that way.
As far as I'm concerned, nobody gets brownie points for needless suffering. So if your loyalty isn't going to help him, and only winds up costing you, then you're setting yourself up for a lot of unnecessary pain in this relationship.
But sometimes the family/friends/loved ones need their OWN gift of desperation to make the changes they need to. I'm not saying you should leave and not saying you should go. You have your own pain threshold and it's your life. If you are going to stay, though, I'd strongly suggest you learn what you can about alcoholism, just so you know what you are getting into. Personally, I'd never willingly stay in a relationship with an active alcoholic again (in fact, I'm on indefinite hiatus from relationships, period, for the foreseeable future).
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mmmmmm
Posts: 3,178
Welcome Incy,
What a well written and thoughtful first post. Your vocabulary is divine I must admit. I'm glad you found SR and decided to post.
You seem aware you are in love with the potential this man holds. But his main relationship is with his addiction. He will choose it over you. Think carefully about selecting a lifelong relationship with someone who is putting you in a threesome with alcohol.
I fell for the potential in my mate. Alcohol was there with us from the start. He is sober now but still hobbled with some sort of inner broken soul that I cannot fix. I eclipse him in my job success, relationship with our kids, and recovery work. Broken men don't like being in the shadow. Broken men rarely take the high road and truly recover, mature and grow. The science is starting to show there is something physically awry with their brains. Find a partner without this broken core. They are worth seeking out. No reason to relive Jane Eyre and 'save' your Rochester. You deserve an equal.
What a well written and thoughtful first post. Your vocabulary is divine I must admit. I'm glad you found SR and decided to post.
You seem aware you are in love with the potential this man holds. But his main relationship is with his addiction. He will choose it over you. Think carefully about selecting a lifelong relationship with someone who is putting you in a threesome with alcohol.
I fell for the potential in my mate. Alcohol was there with us from the start. He is sober now but still hobbled with some sort of inner broken soul that I cannot fix. I eclipse him in my job success, relationship with our kids, and recovery work. Broken men don't like being in the shadow. Broken men rarely take the high road and truly recover, mature and grow. The science is starting to show there is something physically awry with their brains. Find a partner without this broken core. They are worth seeking out. No reason to relive Jane Eyre and 'save' your Rochester. You deserve an equal.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Incy....If you haven't already read "CO-dependency No More", I think this would be the perfect time. It is pretty much classic reading in these circles. A frequent starting place for many who are in your current situation.
I believe that a lot of it will resonate with you.
dandylion
I believe that a lot of it will resonate with you.
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 565
Originally Posted by CodeJob
You seem aware you are in love with the potential this man holds. But his main relationship is with his addiction. He will choose it over you. Think carefully about selecting a lifelong relationship with someone who is putting you in a threesome with alcohol.
Probably not what you were hoping to hear. I am sorry.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,699
I'm so sorry you are going through this.
This part of what you wrote really struck me - "The response was yet again aggression, being told I don't know him, I don't get it etc etc, that he wasn't going to give up drinking, and was that clear to me"
All I can say is to consider believing him on this. I was told 4 years ago the exact same thing, and I should have believed him. 4 years of a stressed out like that I cannot get back because i did not believe him.
Sending you all the best - strength, peace and serenity!
This part of what you wrote really struck me - "The response was yet again aggression, being told I don't know him, I don't get it etc etc, that he wasn't going to give up drinking, and was that clear to me"
All I can say is to consider believing him on this. I was told 4 years ago the exact same thing, and I should have believed him. 4 years of a stressed out like that I cannot get back because i did not believe him.
Sending you all the best - strength, peace and serenity!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,792
Dear Incy
I really feel for you. In my case, my 14 year relationship was something I didn't want to give up on.
My mate has gotten so much worse in a short period of time, that I am starting to forget how he was. I am starting to see things more realistically now.
Please keep coming back. You will find a lot of support here. That is the only advice I will offer. Only YOU will know what is right about how to interact with him from now on. You sound very intelligent. Use your head more than your heart. You will be fine.
I really feel for you. In my case, my 14 year relationship was something I didn't want to give up on.
My mate has gotten so much worse in a short period of time, that I am starting to forget how he was. I am starting to see things more realistically now.
Please keep coming back. You will find a lot of support here. That is the only advice I will offer. Only YOU will know what is right about how to interact with him from now on. You sound very intelligent. Use your head more than your heart. You will be fine.
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 251
My heart breaks for you since I am going through something similar. My husband for 1 and 1/2 years is an alcoholic...he was in AA and sober for 6 months but then quit...said he didn't need it any more and wasn't an alcoholic...he drinks every day now..some nights like last night he only has a few but he is still under the influence. I walk on egg shells around him...afraid to say something the wrong way or not the way he wants...don't want to trigger anything to "push" him over the edge and then it is a bad evening...I agree with all the people here on what they say...we cannot change our AH...we have to decide what we can live with and what we can't. I am learning about myself that I have a difficult time forming and holding boundaries (typical for a co-dependent).
It is very overwhelming and exhausting to make a huge life changing decision, so I have decided to take it in chunks...if things aren't better by next month...plan B...just starting the process of considering the alternative life without the drama, heartbreak, fear, tears, etc. is a beginning...hugs to you...keep writing to us! You have support!~
It is very overwhelming and exhausting to make a huge life changing decision, so I have decided to take it in chunks...if things aren't better by next month...plan B...just starting the process of considering the alternative life without the drama, heartbreak, fear, tears, etc. is a beginning...hugs to you...keep writing to us! You have support!~
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 4
Hi everyone
Wow, where to start, such fabulous responses, I'm a little overwhelmed to be honest! Well firstly, please allow me to apologise for the tardiness of my reply, this is the first opportunity I have had to respond since last night.
I am so sincerely thankful to have received so much honest, insightful, and supportive input already.
Codejob - I simply must thank you directly for this charming compliment...
...it left me feeling excessively flattered, and cheered up, with a delighted smile on my face. Although, having read back through the post, I have spotted a plethora of typos, and punctuation & grammar errors, which I am a little irked by! I blame the tirade of emotion for clouding my proof reading skills! 
But anyway, I digress...
My mindset at the present is that I do not yet feel that I am ready to give up, that I wouldn't forgive myself, if I walked away and didn't feel that I had tried my best, given all I could, fought my hardest. I choose to do this willingly, because I do still believe in him, and in myself. Some of you may think me foolish for this, but I do so because I believe that I do actually understand him very well, as I see very much of my past self in him.
Allow me to explain....I will freely confess to being no angel myself, I had a long standing, daily cannabis habit for around 14 years, which started when I was 17, and only ended about 3 years ago (go on..do the maths! lol). Towards the end of this time, I was in a relationship with a truly fabulous guy for 6 and half years, sadly this relationship ended, largely because I treated him in a similar way to how I am now being treated, I didn't show him enough affection because the cannabis kept me so wrapped up in my own thoughts and killed my libido (this had a knock on effect on other aspects of our relationship, which together culminated in our break up, but I will try to keep to the comparison and not go off on a tangent about that situation!). It also caused me to over think, worry, wind myself up, and become very anxious and self righteous. I have suffered with depression in the past too, which no doubt was at the least exacerbated by the cannabis, if not directly caused by it.
These things were all teamed with a lack of mental stimulation, I rarely left the house as I was working from home running my own small clothing business via the internet, so had little cause to go out. I very much believe that these went hand in hand with each other to cause said over thinking etc. Not to blow my own trumpet, but as Eauchiche noticed, I am very intelligent, with something like a top 2 percentile IQ score, and when under stimulated by everyday life, a busy brain like mine will find anything it can to occupy itself, even if it is negative, because it NEEDS something to do, it just can't not think, so it focuses wherever it can, on whatever it can. So then I would smoke to try and dull all of this, inadvertently actually exacerbating it all.
I became petty and picky over trivial things around the house, and gave my ex a hard time over pretty much everything - if something wasn't done how I thought it should be (stupid stuff like laundry etc) then it annoyed me no end and I would get so cross about it, I'd never stop to appreciate the fact that it HAD been done, all I could see was that it wasn't done RIGHT in my eyes. I am exceptionally fortunate to be able to say that this poor, decent, enduring guy is still my friend now, my best and most trusted friend in fact. I have since then found myself a new career in the fashion industry, and through that satisfaction and fulfillment, found I no longer needed or wanted to smoke, and I am so much happier, calmer and less stressed for it.
Which leads me to my point, (yes, there is actually one attached to this and my current situation!) my ABF is of an equal intelligence level, who comes from a working class background where that was more likely to cause you trouble than be a celebrated and respected blessing, and as such he tells me that he has always dumbed it down. His current job is fairly menial, as I believe all of his employment has been, and from my own knowledge and experience, I am sure that this is massive contributing factor behind the reasons that he drinks. I am however happy to say that he is this week applying for a new position at his current workplace, that seems to quite possibly have been created with him in mind. It is an opportunity for him to take on more responsibility, and be stretched more than he is now.
So, at the moment I am holding on to the hope that not only will he get the job, but that it will occupy and fulfill his mind and intelligence enough to refocus it from the little negative things that it currently busies itself with. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fool, I know he's not me, and I'm not pinning all my hopes on it, or expecting it to be a complete solution or an overnight miracle cure. After all, he may not even get the position, but I am certainly very interested to see what happens, and hopeful that it will be a great boost, and very positive step forward for him, should he get it.
Well I seem to have written another essay, but hopefully that will give you all a little insight into how and why I still believe in him, and you've also had the chance to learn some very interesting things about me too!
Goodnight guys, and thank you again, you're all AWESOME!
Much love, Incy xx
Wow, where to start, such fabulous responses, I'm a little overwhelmed to be honest! Well firstly, please allow me to apologise for the tardiness of my reply, this is the first opportunity I have had to respond since last night.
I am so sincerely thankful to have received so much honest, insightful, and supportive input already.
Codejob - I simply must thank you directly for this charming compliment...
Originally Posted by CodeJob
What a well written and thoughtful first post. Your vocabulary is divine I must admit.
But anyway, I digress...My mindset at the present is that I do not yet feel that I am ready to give up, that I wouldn't forgive myself, if I walked away and didn't feel that I had tried my best, given all I could, fought my hardest. I choose to do this willingly, because I do still believe in him, and in myself. Some of you may think me foolish for this, but I do so because I believe that I do actually understand him very well, as I see very much of my past self in him.
Allow me to explain....I will freely confess to being no angel myself, I had a long standing, daily cannabis habit for around 14 years, which started when I was 17, and only ended about 3 years ago (go on..do the maths! lol). Towards the end of this time, I was in a relationship with a truly fabulous guy for 6 and half years, sadly this relationship ended, largely because I treated him in a similar way to how I am now being treated, I didn't show him enough affection because the cannabis kept me so wrapped up in my own thoughts and killed my libido (this had a knock on effect on other aspects of our relationship, which together culminated in our break up, but I will try to keep to the comparison and not go off on a tangent about that situation!). It also caused me to over think, worry, wind myself up, and become very anxious and self righteous. I have suffered with depression in the past too, which no doubt was at the least exacerbated by the cannabis, if not directly caused by it.
These things were all teamed with a lack of mental stimulation, I rarely left the house as I was working from home running my own small clothing business via the internet, so had little cause to go out. I very much believe that these went hand in hand with each other to cause said over thinking etc. Not to blow my own trumpet, but as Eauchiche noticed, I am very intelligent, with something like a top 2 percentile IQ score, and when under stimulated by everyday life, a busy brain like mine will find anything it can to occupy itself, even if it is negative, because it NEEDS something to do, it just can't not think, so it focuses wherever it can, on whatever it can. So then I would smoke to try and dull all of this, inadvertently actually exacerbating it all.
I became petty and picky over trivial things around the house, and gave my ex a hard time over pretty much everything - if something wasn't done how I thought it should be (stupid stuff like laundry etc) then it annoyed me no end and I would get so cross about it, I'd never stop to appreciate the fact that it HAD been done, all I could see was that it wasn't done RIGHT in my eyes. I am exceptionally fortunate to be able to say that this poor, decent, enduring guy is still my friend now, my best and most trusted friend in fact. I have since then found myself a new career in the fashion industry, and through that satisfaction and fulfillment, found I no longer needed or wanted to smoke, and I am so much happier, calmer and less stressed for it.
Which leads me to my point, (yes, there is actually one attached to this and my current situation!) my ABF is of an equal intelligence level, who comes from a working class background where that was more likely to cause you trouble than be a celebrated and respected blessing, and as such he tells me that he has always dumbed it down. His current job is fairly menial, as I believe all of his employment has been, and from my own knowledge and experience, I am sure that this is massive contributing factor behind the reasons that he drinks. I am however happy to say that he is this week applying for a new position at his current workplace, that seems to quite possibly have been created with him in mind. It is an opportunity for him to take on more responsibility, and be stretched more than he is now.
So, at the moment I am holding on to the hope that not only will he get the job, but that it will occupy and fulfill his mind and intelligence enough to refocus it from the little negative things that it currently busies itself with. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fool, I know he's not me, and I'm not pinning all my hopes on it, or expecting it to be a complete solution or an overnight miracle cure. After all, he may not even get the position, but I am certainly very interested to see what happens, and hopeful that it will be a great boost, and very positive step forward for him, should he get it.
Well I seem to have written another essay, but hopefully that will give you all a little insight into how and why I still believe in him, and you've also had the chance to learn some very interesting things about me too!
Goodnight guys, and thank you again, you're all AWESOME!
Much love, Incy xx
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,792
Dear Incy
An early sponsor of mine told me that people in recovery seemed to do better if they had higher education. He noted that areas like San Francisco had a lower incidence of relapse than the California Central Valley because of the demographic.
I don't know if this is true or not. My mate has a bachelor's degree, but his cognitive skills have gone to h*ll in the late stage of the disease.
Keep coming back!
An early sponsor of mine told me that people in recovery seemed to do better if they had higher education. He noted that areas like San Francisco had a lower incidence of relapse than the California Central Valley because of the demographic.
I don't know if this is true or not. My mate has a bachelor's degree, but his cognitive skills have gone to h*ll in the late stage of the disease.
Keep coming back!
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,281
"The response being that I don't know him..."
Please, listen to him.
In the decades I've been married, I didn't understand this until this past year. It's not seeing the good in him, it's accepting him completely as he is. The good, the bad, the flaws, everything. Even harder has been learning to accept myself the same way. Like climbing a mountain and having different viewpoints. When I think I have full acceptance of myself, time and again I gain a new view, a new awareness, and more is revealed.
Consider a sabatical for yourself. Find what gives you peace and happiness from within. Surface happiness is easier. Going deeper and finding genuine serenity opens up new paths for the joy of life.
Learn how to accept him fully as he is. Let him take his journey without judgement. His path is his to figure out. Take time for self work. If it's meant to be, you will have time still to be together. He isn't a problem to fix and his load isn't yours to carry.
Education and intelligence have no greater equalizer than addiction. One of the biggest factors I've seen is how healthy a person is to begin with.... I never realized before how disfunctial our lives were. I've met many wonderful people with this disease. And many, many of them relapse time and again. It's their journey to travel, not ours.
http://dramador.com/the-leap-institute/
Please, listen to him.
In the decades I've been married, I didn't understand this until this past year. It's not seeing the good in him, it's accepting him completely as he is. The good, the bad, the flaws, everything. Even harder has been learning to accept myself the same way. Like climbing a mountain and having different viewpoints. When I think I have full acceptance of myself, time and again I gain a new view, a new awareness, and more is revealed.
Consider a sabatical for yourself. Find what gives you peace and happiness from within. Surface happiness is easier. Going deeper and finding genuine serenity opens up new paths for the joy of life.
Learn how to accept him fully as he is. Let him take his journey without judgement. His path is his to figure out. Take time for self work. If it's meant to be, you will have time still to be together. He isn't a problem to fix and his load isn't yours to carry.
Education and intelligence have no greater equalizer than addiction. One of the biggest factors I've seen is how healthy a person is to begin with.... I never realized before how disfunctial our lives were. I've met many wonderful people with this disease. And many, many of them relapse time and again. It's their journey to travel, not ours.
http://dramador.com/the-leap-institute/
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,281
Incy, keep in mind acceptance doesn't mean something is alright with us, just that it is there. The good, the bad, the beautiful and the ugly, all wrapped up together. Accepting it all for what it is, not what it could be. Not "I will love myself when..." but now, as I am today.
Accepting your boyfriend as he is doesn't necessarily mean staying with him. Sometimes it can bring peace to stay, sometimes it brings the peace to let go.
You have the right to a beautiful, joyful life. Look to finding that, and open your heart and mind to the possibilitiesof today.
Accepting your boyfriend as he is doesn't necessarily mean staying with him. Sometimes it can bring peace to stay, sometimes it brings the peace to let go.
You have the right to a beautiful, joyful life. Look to finding that, and open your heart and mind to the possibilitiesof today.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mmmmmm
Posts: 3,178
Sounds like a pattern to me. Sounds like you might have swapped out sides of a Karpman drama triangle.
Amusingly I was told intelligent people fight recovery. They gum it up with too much thinking. Overthinking is one of my specialties.
You'll figure it out. Your path is your own Incy! Glad you are here and hope you stick around!
Maybe the changes in your life that brought you happiness might be elucidated with the equation to your BF? I worked my way through this text and it was really interesting to see what I had managed to systematically rework on my own.
Calculating your Happiness with a Formula - Psy 1001 section 22 Spring 2012
Amusingly I was told intelligent people fight recovery. They gum it up with too much thinking. Overthinking is one of my specialties.
You'll figure it out. Your path is your own Incy! Glad you are here and hope you stick around!
Maybe the changes in your life that brought you happiness might be elucidated with the equation to your BF? I worked my way through this text and it was really interesting to see what I had managed to systematically rework on my own.
Calculating your Happiness with a Formula - Psy 1001 section 22 Spring 2012
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