nic9fred

I know I need to start to go to Al anon, but have no transport until my local meeting next week. In the meantime I need advice on how to deal with my partner, who is going to AA meetings and telling everyone he has not had a drink in 6 months, but I have just found out is drinking in secret.

I know because I caught him having drunk white wine (which he has always maintained he loathes and would never touch) from the fridge last weekend.

When confronted he looked me in the eye and swore on my life that he hadn't. Did he honestly believe his own lie? The evidence was plainly there, but he swears I 'got it wrong'. I know I'm not that stupid. Does he really think I am, and if so how can I be with someone who a)lies and b)thinks I'm an idiot?

FeelingGreat

Hey Nic, I've had my sister swear to me she hadn't had a drink when she could hardly stand. Do they believe it themselves?
You might spend a lot of energy proving you're right or trying to catch him out, but all he needs to do is deny. Have you thought about what his relapse means to you and your relationships?
You know he's still drinking, make your plans, or do what you feel is right, according to this knowledge.

CodeJob

Welcome Nic to SR,

This article helped me a lot.

Addiction, Lies and Relationships

Secondly I started to think about boundaries for me and eventually set a few after reading Codependent No More.

fluffyflea

Well what I would do is let him whirl.

Put it squarely in his lap. What I mean by that is don't confront him and give him any reason to deflect anything on you.

He's going to deny it anyways if you confront him.

I would take care of me and figure out what boundaries I need to set to do that and let him live with himself and his consequences.

ubntubnt

You are not with someone that thinks you are stupid. But you are with an alcoholic. Its a nasty disease. Alcoholics lie. They also do not always think rationally. Now you know one of the ugly truths - that this addiction is so powerful, so destructive that we are capable of looking those that we hold most dear in the eye and lying. It shouldn't really change that much for you, he was alcoholic before he drank the wine and he still is. He was capable of lying to you before and he still is. If he is serious about his recovery then he needs to own up to it and deal with it. There are lots of reasons as to why he would lie, maybe he is too embarrassed to admit to you that he relapsed, maybe its something else but really its impossible for you to work it all out. What important is how he is managing his recovery and how are managing yours.

RollTide

With my XAH lying was like breathing to him...it just came naturally.

Hammer

Was going to suggest . . . that IF you really want an Alcoholic, you may try to find one WHO DOES NOT Lie.

But I am pretty sure . . . like Unicorns . . . . that creature may not exist.

Hey, sorry you find yourself, here.

Welcome Aboard.

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ps. The A or B stuff. What they think you think. Generally they do not -- at least the way you may consider thinking. Thinking process goes like this: "I NEED a [drink/drug/barf/whatever]" All the rest of the world is optional, including you and others.

dandylion

nic9....The article that CodeJob suggested....it one of the best I have ever read to answer the question you are asking. Floyd P. Garrett wrote several other articles that are equally good.
Oh, yes, they all lie when caught. Not to hurt you or because they think you are stupid or any other reason to do with YOU. It isn't about YOU (in their mind)...it is about their desperation to survive. They feel like they will die if they can't ever have a drink again. Literally, that is the truth. Ask any recovering alcoholic.

When I finally got these concepts through my head...it got a lot easier for me to cope.

dandylion

fluffyflea

When we finally know that is NOT about US, their lying, it is very empowering and freeing.

Jupiters

If I had a nickel for every time I blatantly looked a loved one (parents/BF) in the eye and swore I wasn't drunk/been drinking...my arse wouldn't be sitting at this desk right now. LOL
I don't know what it is...I mean, I KNEW they knew. I knew I wasn't fooling anyone and I certainly didn't think any of them were dumb (I'm just speaking for myself, I never once consciously thought anybody was stupid or an idiot) ...but the lies just came too easy.

lizatola

Alcoholics don't lie at you and they don't drink AT you. They do those things because it is the nature of their illness. Can you imagine how hard it must be to be them? To let your brain convince yourself that everything is OK and that you don't have a problem with alcohol. They lie to themselves and we have to learn to accept that and live with it or choose to not live with it. We have choices and Al Anon can help as can being here at SR and any other support program you can find for yourself.

I like the article that Codejob linked. Read all you can about alcoholism. They have a problem and we have to learn how to live either with it or without it in our own time by finding peace and healing for ourselves. Keep coming back!

hopeful4

They lie to protect their addiction. The lies is what did my marriage in, I just could not deal with any more. It was making me feel like a crazy person. Ugh.... I am sorry this is happening to you.

However....I am so glad to hear to plan to attend Alanon which will help you. And glad to have you here at SR!!!

MIRecovery

How do you tell if an alcoholic is lying? Their lips are moving.

Personally I have a dry house. Like someone that is suicidal it is not wise to have loaded guns around

Stung

Our marriage therapist has said this exact same thing before. I've learned that I need to expect lies. He's shown me that he's a liar, why would I expect that to change? If I want to be with him then I need to accept him as he is. If he wants to stop drinking, if he wants to stop lying, then he will. There won't need to be discussions about it. Until he changes because he wants to then I need to accept that he keeps lying and drinking because that's what he wants to do.

Dealing with an alcoholic is like dealing with a toddler that you cannot teach or discipline.

NWGRITS

Alcoholics lie. It's as reliable as the sun rising and setting every day.

NYCDoglvr

I could no longer be with someone I don't trust or respect. What you describe, lying about drinking, is practically a cliche it's so common.

nic9fred

Thanks for the words of support and great advice everyone.

I guess what I worked out is that I can't control or change what he does or says, but I can determine how I deal with it.

As someone said, actually nothing has changed: he lied before and still does. I guess it was the disappointment that the recovery he was claiming he was achieving wasn't real.

At the time I said to him that I can understand why he lies to me and lies to other people, but if he actually does go to AA meetings and lies to the people there well that is just plain illogical.

I listed to some podcasts, and heard a great woman say how when she is being lied to she just goes 'oh ok' or 'ah ha' or something like that. This makes such a lot of sense. The less I say the better I figure. We'll have communication when he isn't lying, and I'll keep to myself when he is. What he does is up to him.

I'm scared of my first Al Anon meeting, but actually really looking forward to it. I'll let everyone know how I go.

Thanks again.

Hammer

Now that we have went on about all the lying . . . let's maybe hit the other side?

Honesty.

As Seren has noted around here, she observes Three Major Behaviors among the Sober who "make" it -- Honesty, Transparency, and Humility.

As near as I can tell -- True dat.

Honesty is a HUGE part of successful recovery.

Good for YOU on Alanon. You will learn all this and a whole lot more.


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Such a Big Deal in the AA Big Book that Honesty is mentioned Three Times in the opening paragraph of Chapter 5, "How It Works"

http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_bigbook_chapt5.pdf

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Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our directions. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a way of life which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.

GracieLou

It is illogical. The disease makes no sense to someone who is not an alcoholic or a recovered alcoholic.

Trust me, the people in AA know he is lying but they still accept him because they have been in the same place themselves. They are not going to call him out either, well some might, because the point is he has to get honest with himself. The requirement for membership is the desire to stop drinking, it does not say you have stopped.

He has to get honesty and that is not for you or them but for himself and he is not going to do that unless he stops drinking and even that does not happen overnight. There are people with many years sobriety that still lie, cheat and steal. They are behaviors that are hard to escape from but in the end, that is not your concern for now unless you get to a point that you decide you no longer want to live that way.

Keep doing what you can do for you

Sotiredofitall

^^^
This!