sg1970

I am a RA and if I am not supposed to post here let me know and I will delete it.

JB,

In order to quit I had to hurt bad enough to not be able to continue drinking. I had to hit bottom. Drinking even two beers is not an option for a true alkie. It is a progressive disease and unless the cord is completely cut it will get worse. Allowing any alcohol at all is simply prolonging the misery. You know these things since you are a RA.

You say you won't let your alkie fall. I had to fall, on my own, in order to get back up. I want you to read the next sentence very carefully. In my opinion based on my situation the thing that would have helped me hit my bottom fastest is if my wife would have let me fall on my own hard and fast. Instead she played my games for 20 years and was miserable. Note I said "my games" because that is what it is to an alkie who doesn't want to quit. Life is too short for misery.

I wish you the best in your recovery.

hopeful4

Hi JB,

While I think it's a rocky and uncertain road, I am happy to see you having some fun for yourself. I had that child/parent relationship for a long time. My XAH says now that he drinks moderately b/c he does not have me breathing down his neck. I don't believe it at all, and his fiancée said he admits on a regular basis he drinks too much. I dunno the answer, but I am glad you are here.

You are also right that we each have to find our own way in our own time. That is totally fine. While I don't think your AH will be able to moderate this for long, it's not what I think that matters.

I am here to support and encourage you, and am glad you are still here with us!

torquemax777

Sg1970, thank you for your post! I think if there was more "other side of the fence" people on the F&F forum, as well as sober spouses posting on the alcoholism forum, it would be a tremendous help! It's like all those questions we have about alcoholics, get to be answered straight from the horses mouth!

JB, you got sober on your own, what was your rock bottom?

Could you have gotten sober had your husband said, "just moderate"?

I just wonder if you treated your AH the way you treated yourself when you decided to get sober if that would help?

Soberintexas007

He had his two beers before the casino at his mom's house without her there. When we went to the casino, I saw that he spent some of his casino money on more beer without me around, so at that point I decided not to get upset and let it ruin my night. So when I ended up giving him the $10 for more beer when he asked, he had already had over the limit, and I had just given up at that point. But there was no "real" problem that night because he did not get belligerent. But what the night taught me is that I don't really have control because there will come a time like the other night when I am not always around him like when we go to dinner and the movies.

The problem is that if my husband does have over the 2 beer limit on his off days, there is a chance he may become belligerent, and I will then have to sleep at my parent's house and assess our relationship. I have never seen him get belligerent after only having 2 beers. But he should technically be abstaining since he is an alcoholic and cannot moderate.

Soberintexas007

That statement is my truth, and if I stated anything differently, then I would be lying to make myself "look good" according to "Al-Anon principles." I simply do not feel comfortable letting my AH hit bottom at this time. That is my reality, that is my truth. If other people do feel comfort in doing this, then I accept that as well. Everyone is different.

happybeingme

JB, thanks for answering my question. I want to share with you my experience. I am an RA. At the height of my drinking things got quite crazy. Police at the house and everything. I was always plastered and he was usually pretty drunk. But, when I quit his drinking dialed down to a much more normal amount. And there was no more crazy. Turns out, most of the dysfunction was my fault.

Soberintexas007

He had already crossed the 2 beer limit at the first casino with his casino money. He imploded the boundary by himself, which showed me that the 2 beer limit really only works under very controlled situations (such as dinner and a movie when I am always around him).

We both like casinos, and he wanted to go there as well. Remember, we will also be going on a cruise in early March, so your same argument can be made. He chose to break the 2 beer limit, and I chose to stay with him at that time because he did not become belligerent. But he knows that he is playing with fire if he does that.

We visited the second casino because I wanted to play more blackjack, and he was fine with that. If he had stuck to the 2 beer limit, I definitely would not have gone to a second casino, because I would have seen that he was trying. But after he imploded that boundary so easily at the first casino, I think I developed an "Oh whatever" attitude at that moment, and so we went to the second casino.

Soberintexas007

I agree. And I would have thought that my AH has fallen hard enough, but he simply hasn't. He may be the type that continues to drink beer and possibly not become belligerent, holds down a job, but then dies of liver related alcohol problems in his future, which would then be his final bottom. He got diagnosed with Hep C two years ago, had a treatable strain, and "cured" himself of his Hep C after interferon treatment. Even though the virus is no longer in his body, he may have a compromised liver as a result of the Hep C.

Soberintexas007

Yes, the no alcohol in our apartment has been HUGE. It keeps him from drinking after work, and it provides me a safe haven. The 2 beer limit is something I try and help him attain when he chooses to drink on his off days. But, ultimately, that 2 beer limit will be broken under certain situations (like the casino, cruise, etc.) So, ultimately, him becoming belligerent will decide whether or not I stay in this relationship.

Soberintexas007

I told my AH to abstain from alcohol. He does not want to. I am simply just trying to help him "moderate," which is most likely a fairytale since he is an alcoholic.

Soberintexas007

My cousin was married to an AH and divorced him b/c of his drinking. He remarried and is still drinking. My cousin wonders how the marriage is. My brother-in-law is this guy's insurance agent, and he said this guy is doing fine and is happy. So the question becomes: Why was my cousin unhappily affected by her ex's drinking, yet his new wife and he are doing okay. This is what I have been trying to state on this forum. There are shades of gray and different variables as to how much someone is affected by someone else's drinking. And I also think the spouse of an AH or AW may play some role in how much drama the AH or AW's drinking creates.

Soberintexas007

[QUOTE=torquemax777;5169003]Sg1970, thank you for your post! I think if there was more "other side of the fence" people on the F&F forum, as well as sober spouses posting on the alcoholism forum, it would be a tremendous help! It's like all those questions we have about alcoholics, get to be answered straight from the horses mouth!

JB, you got sober on your own, what was your rock bottom?

Could you have gotten sober had your husband said, "just moderate"?

I just wonder if you treated your AH the way you treated yourself when you decided to get sober if that would help?[/QUOTET

I think the symptoms of my alcoholism were a lot more severe than what I see in my husband when he drinks. I drank and could not stop. I would pass out or blackout. I tried moderating myself, and my husband wanted me to try moderating, but it never worked. My drinking was too bad and always ended up with me having bad hangovers and becoming impaired in life. My AH doesn't seem to blackout or pass out like I did, he sometimes can stop at 2 beers which I was unable to, and he is able to not wake up hungover the next day and is able to work.

However, there have been the few instances where my AH has become belligerent after drinking too much, and a couple times in which the police had to be called. That is why he is playing with fire when he drinks, even if this drama and belligerence only happen 1/10 times. He can still end up doing something stupid, which is why he should abstain from alcohol.

Anyways, I was a really bad blackout drunk. I am very lucky that I never got in trouble with the law, however. I also never drank and drove.

hopeful4

Let's not forget that sometimes people have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. My in-laws had no idea how bad it was, and likely still don't, we were close to them. And if anyone met me on the street during that time, they would have said I was fine and happy too. In fact, many people could not believe that we divorced b/c we always seemed to be the perfect couple.

I too work in insurance and when I see my clients I certainly have no idea what is going on in their lives on that personal of a level.

I also think it's about how much the partner is willing to participate in the drinking and how much they are willing to tolerate and for how long.

torquemax777

But if alcoholism is progressive as everyone on SR says including alcoholics themselves, isn't only a matter of time before he becomes belligerent? Especially since he has in the past?

Doesn't that scare/ worry you?

Not that blacking out makes belligerence any easier, but it scares me to think he is being belligerent when he has at least "some" of his mental faculties. Kinda like a muder committed in cold blooded, pre conceived, 1st degree vs someone who commits murder in the heat of the moment or because of insanity/2nd degree murder. Both are sad, bad, and irreversible, but the 1st degree seems even more evil.

The fact that your AH does it while NOT blacked out makes it more like 1st degree murder.

Just be careful k?

Soberintexas007

This is a VERY interesting post. I have noticed that it is possible that my sobriety is having a good effect on my AH and reduces his intake.

Here is what I think, though. YES, I think that my drinking made the dysfunction worse, but I also think that his drinking has caused problems as well. I remember the night early in my sobriety when I was not drinking and he was drinking in the apartment after work, he had too much, and he verbally berated me, which had a spiral down effect. This was not at all my fault, and was purely the effect of him drinking too much and being stressed out and blaming me.

But I do think that my sobriety has resulted in less drinking and no more drinking in the apartment, which has all had a net good effect on him.

I think that it is possible that the stronger I become in my sobriety = no belligerence on his part because he will be drinking less AND I will know how to cope with him better since I am working a strong program.

But, yes, me not drinking has definitely reduced his intake because he is around a sober person now. But will there be a time in which he does drink too much, is stressed out, and becomes belligerent??? That is the risk here, no matter if I am drinking or not. In other words, my sobriety has created a temporary buffer, but it most likely is not a cure all to the situation. Only time will tell.

Soberintexas007

Yes, this is what I am worried about. How come my AH can stop sometimes after 2 beers yet I could not??? Well, he also is able to come home after drinking those 2 beers and smokes pot. So does the pot have a medicinal quality that restricts the compulsion to have another drink? I don't know, but my sister tells me that her husband does the same thing. She says that his weed smoking calms him down after drinking.

After we went to the casino and my AH had about 4 beers, I did notice he was getting a bit edgy. He said he wanted to go smoke his weed in the car, and so we left. Once he smoked his weed, he calmed down.

Someone may ask if I want to be with a pothead. Well, if the pot calms him down and he works the next day, I really don't care. He is company in the meantime, LOL!

Katiekate

So he see's him a couple of times a year??? My insurance agent doesn't know anything about my personal life.

zoso77

JB...

This is going to be my final contribution to this thread. As they say, take what you like and leave the rest.

I find this fascinating. One the one hand, you admit without any reservations or doubt that your husband is an alcoholic and cannot moderate. On the other hand, this knowledge is not enough to make you reassess your marriage, especially since the risk of your husband becoming belligerent is present.

Outside looking in, if you already know he cannot moderate, then by extension, you know the "Two Beer Limit" virtually has no chance of reigning him in. It seems the reason why that rule exists is to give the appearance that you're trying to be reasonable. Unfortunately, that flies in the face of the adage One is too many, and a thousand is never enough.

That being said, JB, we're not marriage counselors here. Nor are we LCSW's or addiction specialists. Whether you buy into whatever anyone here says is entirely up to you. Speaking personally, I've seen this movie a few times over at FFSA, and the last thing I want to see happen is another SR member get her head handed to her. But it does happen. You have the right to make your own decisions, fully aware that with those decisions, you own the outcome.

Use your head. Decide what is best for you, and that comes with the awareness that what is best for you is not necessarily what you want.

God Bless.

Stung

Not to hijack JB's thread but thank you so much for sharing this. It's giving me some food for thought on my own situation.

BlueChair

Hi JB. Hope its ok I comment. I think its normal for people to do sobriety sampling, take the idea of a two beer limit and see if they maintain control. But I cant help but wonder if because of your own experiences your sort of trying to do the sobriety sampling for him? Did u try something like this for yourself before you decided to stop completely?

I also think its good to separate out the two things, his behavior and drinking. Of course you want him to stop because he has a history of raging, but I would try focus more on his behavior to you, whats acceptable to you. I think your trying to btw, and let him do his own sobriety sampling. Maybe he will learn from it? Right now in his eyes he probably has two problems one is being cautious of his behavior, and the other is only pleasing you as to the quantity he drinks.

My husband still drinks after his whole giant drug addiction experience. He was up front from the beginning while in rehab about how he never had an alcohol problem and he needed to see if he could drink socially and in an acceptable way. Not for emotional reasons, escape. Talk about scary for me, even though I have only seen him drink too much a couple times ever. Its been over a year and hes managing it ok on his own. I never comment or set limits. I would say something and we would talk about it in our family counseling if I saw a problem developing. Im sharing because I could easily go down the road of, ok but only have two and promise me its your all time limit. Its not fair to him, and not good for me to do that. BTW he seldom will drink two, and its usually only a glass of wine. I do sort of relate to what you feel but I just know I have to let him decide, and I only look at behavior.

Also not saying he should drink, or encouraging it for anyone else like my husband is doing, just sharing the similarity.