Kind of sensitive subject
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Originally Posted by Katchie 
The other day, after my husband spilled his guts about why he believes he's a drunk, he brings up, towards the end of the conversation, sex and how he could always be sure to have relations with me if he just bought me a new dress.
I know he has a problem with buying the family's affection, or at least that is the intention behind the gifts and money, when he is feeling guilty about his drinking, but what he stated has never been true. We use to be fine in that department until the drinking.
I told him I don't enjoy relations with a drunk. Not to mention, there is nothing attractive about a drunk who tries to buy his family instead of being a husband and a father. Its not attractive when your husband doesn't help parent because he has escaped into the bottle. Memories of being urinated on in your sleep, waking to him urinating on the bedroom wall, waking to stinging tobacco on the back of my head/neck -- these do not keep the bedroom fires burning, nor does being forced into it! Its disgusting/repulsive! He just doesn't make the connection that more drinking and it's behaviors = less in the bedroom. None. And its not a punishment, its just repulsive. There is only one in this relationship who enjoys that and it isn't me.
But, he tells my BIL that he is only staying with me until the boys graduate. When he is drinking its like he isn't who I married anymore. I imagine that his bringing up sex on the phone the other day was his attempt to tell me that may also be what causes him to drink. But again, its because of his drinking, not the other way around. I don't feel like I should have to explain this again but maybe I have to.
I know he has a problem with buying the family's affection, or at least that is the intention behind the gifts and money, when he is feeling guilty about his drinking, but what he stated has never been true. We use to be fine in that department until the drinking.
I told him I don't enjoy relations with a drunk. Not to mention, there is nothing attractive about a drunk who tries to buy his family instead of being a husband and a father. Its not attractive when your husband doesn't help parent because he has escaped into the bottle. Memories of being urinated on in your sleep, waking to him urinating on the bedroom wall, waking to stinging tobacco on the back of my head/neck -- these do not keep the bedroom fires burning, nor does being forced into it! Its disgusting/repulsive! He just doesn't make the connection that more drinking and it's behaviors = less in the bedroom. None. And its not a punishment, its just repulsive. There is only one in this relationship who enjoys that and it isn't me.
But, he tells my BIL that he is only staying with me until the boys graduate. When he is drinking its like he isn't who I married anymore. I imagine that his bringing up sex on the phone the other day was his attempt to tell me that may also be what causes him to drink. But again, its because of his drinking, not the other way around. I don't feel like I should have to explain this again but maybe I have to.
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I've read in several places about the preoccupation of gratifying instinct as a characteristic of alcoholism... I suffer from it too. Until the addict mind changes its unlikely to moderate. I dearly wanted to talk about it endlessly but discussion involving her reasons why sex wasn't something she was interested in mostly served to reinforce my pity party.
I'd generally think that any justify/argue/defend/explain engagement on the issue won't help much. A clearly stated boundary seems maybe a good approach though.
I'd generally think that any justify/argue/defend/explain engagement on the issue won't help much. A clearly stated boundary seems maybe a good approach though.
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I've posted on the sex issue before. RAH gets so angry when he doesn't get enough of it or whatever his deal is. He is very passive about it early on but will then pick fights later on in the day and accuse me of cheating, blah blah.
OTOH- I think sex is a topic that is difficult for the alcoholic marriage and non A marriage. It's a totally different view from both sides. It's a tough one for sure.
From my own perspective, I used to feel like it was required of me. You are female, therefore, it is your job. WOW- how stinky that line of thinking was. And of course the drunk relations is just HIDEOUS- but they just don't get it, do they? And if I try to explain it to him, then he just freaks out and claims that I'm stating he isn't "good enough" period. All the time.
I think it boils down to with as much as our A's want relations, they are too immature to discuss it like an adult. They get all wounded about it. I'm sure this goes for a lot of sober men too, but especially with the A
OTOH- I think sex is a topic that is difficult for the alcoholic marriage and non A marriage. It's a totally different view from both sides. It's a tough one for sure.
From my own perspective, I used to feel like it was required of me. You are female, therefore, it is your job. WOW- how stinky that line of thinking was. And of course the drunk relations is just HIDEOUS- but they just don't get it, do they? And if I try to explain it to him, then he just freaks out and claims that I'm stating he isn't "good enough" period. All the time.
I think it boils down to with as much as our A's want relations, they are too immature to discuss it like an adult. They get all wounded about it. I'm sure this goes for a lot of sober men too, but especially with the A
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I've been doing a lot of 4th step work on insecurity, I'm toying with an idea of sex as a type of emotional security, in the classic form where security is sought outside oneself. Or maybe as billw puts it, an emotional disturbance is often associated with am unhealthy attachment to something. I'm reluctant to attribute immaturity as a fundamental cause, more a consequence of the addictive mind.
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Originally Posted by NYCDoglvr
As a general rule, active alcoholics doge responsibility like the plague. That's why it's always better to look at actions instead of words, which generally mean nothing.
In regards to him talking about leaving me after the kids graduate, she just told me to go ahead and see a lawyer and tell him/her everything. Even if he was just blowing steam, which doesn't make sense, she said I just need to protect myself. I agree. I've called and talked to people but haven't made the leap to put an actual plan together with a lawyer. They are so stinking expensive and I'm still in the middle of a lawsuit on my g'mothers house. :-(
One interesting thing my T said today, is that sometimes the preoccupation with sex could also mean there is another go-to addiction he has on the side with porn. This did trigger some memories.
I just look at him and he seems to be a bundle of various addictions. When I met him, he would have a can of beer in one hand, a cigarette in the other, while he had a big wad of Copenhagen chew in his lip doing all of it simultaneously. Gross. What the heck was I thinking.
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Originally Posted by Katchie
I just look at him and he seems to be a bundle of various addictions. When I met him, he would have a can of beer in one hand, a cigarette in the other, while he had a big wad of Copenhagen chew in his lip doing all of it simultaneously. Gross. What the heck was I thinking.
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Originally Posted by Refiner
Oh Katchie :-( Now I know why you wrote the thing about tobacco slobbering the back of your head - YUCK.
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Ugh...that's awful
Originally Posted by Katchie
Yeah, it will set your skin on fire. It really burns. This has happened 2 or 3 times but its really hard to forget how inconsiderate it is/was. He didn't even offer to help clean it up. Just a quick "sorry hon". It just didn't cut it for me.
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The other day, after my husband spilled his guts about why he believes he's a drunk
Ya know this particular line in your post really struck a chord. I think similar lines of thinking on his side have been expressed in other posts.
A LOT of the rest of your post resonates me on many levels but I will let others address those issues since I haven't dealt with them on my side very well or constructively.
That said what really is frosting my cornflakes about your husband, and all alcoholics that blame shift, is the flat out denial and refusal to take personal responsibility. Since I'm the one in recovery in my marriage I figure I'm allowed to call him out. I honestly don't particularly care what misdeeds you may have done, real or perceived that can excuse his choice to deal with them via the use of alcohol and continuous destructive behavior. I can give you a line of reasons I drank and I'd certainly get sympathy in the process. However, once sober and getting real with myself I can find a zillion other people that dealt with the same issues and found other ways to cope other than repeatedly getting stinking drunk. His addiction is his issue and regardless of what you've ever done it is NOT YOUR FAULT.
Sorry just needed to get this off my chest.
Ya know this particular line in your post really struck a chord. I think similar lines of thinking on his side have been expressed in other posts.
A LOT of the rest of your post resonates me on many levels but I will let others address those issues since I haven't dealt with them on my side very well or constructively.
That said what really is frosting my cornflakes about your husband, and all alcoholics that blame shift, is the flat out denial and refusal to take personal responsibility. Since I'm the one in recovery in my marriage I figure I'm allowed to call him out. I honestly don't particularly care what misdeeds you may have done, real or perceived that can excuse his choice to deal with them via the use of alcohol and continuous destructive behavior. I can give you a line of reasons I drank and I'd certainly get sympathy in the process. However, once sober and getting real with myself I can find a zillion other people that dealt with the same issues and found other ways to cope other than repeatedly getting stinking drunk. His addiction is his issue and regardless of what you've ever done it is NOT YOUR FAULT.
Sorry just needed to get this off my chest.
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Originally Posted by cookiesncream
The other day, after my husband spilled his guts about why he believes he's a drunk
Ya know this particular line in your post really struck a chord. I think similar lines of thinking on his side have been expressed in other posts.
A LOT of the rest of your post resonates me on many levels but I will let others address those issues since I haven't dealt with them on my side very well or constructively.
That said what really is frosting my cornflakes about your husband, and all alcoholics that blame shift, is the flat out denial and refusal to take personal responsibility. Since I'm the one in recovery in my marriage I figure I'm allowed to call him out. I honestly don't particularly care what misdeeds you may have done, real or perceived that can excuse his choice to deal with them via the use of alcohol and continuous destructive behavior. I can give you a line of reasons I drank and I'd certainly get sympathy in the process. However, once sober and getting real with myself I can find a zillion other people that dealt with the same issues and found other ways to cope other than repeatedly getting stinking drunk. His addiction is his issue and regardless of what you've ever done it is NOT YOUR FAULT.
Sorry just needed to get this off my chest.
Ya know this particular line in your post really struck a chord. I think similar lines of thinking on his side have been expressed in other posts.
A LOT of the rest of your post resonates me on many levels but I will let others address those issues since I haven't dealt with them on my side very well or constructively.
That said what really is frosting my cornflakes about your husband, and all alcoholics that blame shift, is the flat out denial and refusal to take personal responsibility. Since I'm the one in recovery in my marriage I figure I'm allowed to call him out. I honestly don't particularly care what misdeeds you may have done, real or perceived that can excuse his choice to deal with them via the use of alcohol and continuous destructive behavior. I can give you a line of reasons I drank and I'd certainly get sympathy in the process. However, once sober and getting real with myself I can find a zillion other people that dealt with the same issues and found other ways to cope other than repeatedly getting stinking drunk. His addiction is his issue and regardless of what you've ever done it is NOT YOUR FAULT.
Sorry just needed to get this off my chest.
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