Mango blast

((((Stung))))

Sending hugs and prayers for you. Breath deeply. You're going to be alright. One day at a time. It's okay to give it up and let God have it.... your concerns, your plans, your fears.

Did you make it to the meeting?

Hammer

Do. The. Steps.

You already know this.

redatlanta

Actually this is quacking bull*hit.

Going back to a former post - he has no intention of quitting. Never has. He is 'moderating". Even able to get the sober living house to take him back AGAIN this guy gets chance after chance.

Yep angry and mean alright because he isn't getting his way..doesn't believe you will ever pull the trigger my guess is he sees himself as major improved and what's your problem? Oh, its your fault! Puh lease. That's the weakest excuse of someone who is reduced to having no other thing to say except the truth which is - he's not stopping.

My sister had a child she could not discipline. Grounded, no phone, no extra curricular activities, no car, no tv , no internet, nothing….I mean nothing worked the child could care less - therefore, the behavior never stopped. Until…my sister figured out the only thing she did care about was her instrument she played in band. My niece had gotten away with that for a long time because it was school work, then they took it away anyway and she did a 180. Disciplining a child isn't a great metaphor for an A partner because we shouldn't have to parent an adult, the moral here being what one's trigger point is can be complex or nonexistent. I think your husband has been out of the house more than in for the past year yet we are still seeing defense of his drinking! What I see in him is a freaking King of a manipulator.

I'm really, really sorry you have been through the ringer Stung. Lot's of hugs friend I hope today is a better day.

Hawkeye13

So it sounds like the choice is getting clearer for you anyway.

I agree with red. Doesn't look like King Baby is in recovery, and he doesn't think
you are really, in the end, going to divorce him over it.

Check, or check mate?

dandylion

Stung....this might seem so simplistic and obvious that it need not be said...but...

Whenever we enforce a boundary or take a stance in favor of our own welfare...and it cuts into the "world" of another person....expect a strong negative reaction.
Expect that they will see you as the "enemy" of them.
Expect that they will act out their anger in all manner of ways.
Don't expect that they will support your views, agree with your views, or co-operate with you in any way.

They are a separate person and will operate within their "world" as they see it. Not as we "see" their world.

The same exact thing applies to us. This applies across the board---between humans--not just as applied to alcoholics and their partners.

When I divorced my children's father---OMG! was he angry! (narcissistic personality;not an alcoholic). He blamed everything on me and made up lies out of whole cloth, to boot.
He said that he was totally happy with our marriage--therefore I was completely off base to be dissatisfied. I was "too hard to please"...and, that I had no room for any complaints. On and on and on.....

That was years and years ago. To this day, he has not changed his "position" on this at all. (haven't talked to him in years, though).

I had to do what I had to do in order to not completely give up my "self". There was simply no other option...if I wanted to keep my own identity...if I wanted to exist as a person.
I have never regretted the wisdom of that decision.

I wanted to share my experience with you on this....

dandylion

MissFixit

He isn't getting his way and is lashing out at you.

There is not a wrong thing to do. There is only what works for you and what doesn't work. Right now things are not working for you. You don't have to get a divorce right now unless you want one. Do you want to be married to him anymore? Are you ready to be done? What do you think will be different once you are divorced? Have you created a pro/con list? Although this is a difficult subject, lists help me to see in black and white what I am dealing with without emotion.

Eauchiche

Dear Stung
I'm moving today and didn't have time to read the entire thread, so I don't know if anyone else posted this.

I am starting to realize, just this week, that having anything to do with my mate brings out the worst in me. It makes me dour and aggressive. My friends notice the difference. My family of origin says that I seem so much happier without him.

I used to suffer under the delusion that things would be great if he just stopped drinking.

Speaking objectively, both partners in a relationship should be better TOGETHER than apart. Otherwise, What's the point?

Stung

Now I'm being flooded with more words. Words with no substance from a man with no integrity.

"Please don't leave."

"We're meant to be together."

"I hope you don't decide to divorce me."

"I will never love anyone else."

He keeps telling me he loves me. He accused me of giving up on him.

I love him AND I love me too. I'm not giving up on him, I'm finally picking myself up. Because I love him is what makes this so difficult for me. I actually mean the words that I say. This is what that looks like. He's keeps asking me what he's supposed to do. I don't know what he should or could do. Normally I'd tell him what I want. I'd tell him what I want him to do so that I can feel better. I asked him what I'm supposed to do. Silence. I don't know what will make me happy but I do know what I don't want and that's a good start. I know what trajectory I'm on with him and I don't want that.

I don't want 20 years of games. I feel like this is some kind of game. He told me on Saturday that he can moderate beer, but not vodka but drinking beer could lead to vodka so he won't go there. He just doesn't get it. He's in denial. He still views alcohol as a balm rather than the protagonist. By my staying, by my continuing to maintaining the status quo I'm not helping anyone. That's me being afraid of pain. This is going to hurt no matter what but leaving is the RIGHT thing to do here. The experience of others, my own experience is showing me that really, nothing changes if nothing changes (and I mean nothing changes for me, I don't have anymore illusions that my actions will create or sustain changes in him). I don't want this for 20 years. The pain of staying is not greater than leaving yet, but I don't need to get to that point. The pain of leaving hurts really bad. The pain of staying is much slower and much more insidious. I finally see what his actions say. He's afraid to be sober. He lied to me about having labs done for his psychiatrist, he lied to me about taking his RX'd meds (naltrexone and anti-anxiety meds), he's been lying about gambling, lying about drinking. All these lies are not how you treat someone that you respect and trust. What is a marriage without trust? Without respect? What is a marriage if you cannot count on the other person?

He wants to keep pretending that we're okay. He is so hurt that I won't indulge this anymore because that's what he expects from me. That's what his family and friends do for him. They pretend and no one points at the elephant in the room. I love him. I love him so much. I don't need to be mean or cruel to him to take care of myself and pretending that things are okay is actually cruel to the both of us. I don't trust him. I don't respect him. My actions and my words are finally actually reflecting my feelings. I love him so much but this isn't fair to me. This hasn't been working since May.

I will raise my daughters to know that happiness is something you create for yourself. If you're with someone and they aren't heightening that experience then it's time for you to evaluate what you're doing. (I wasn't a happy or confident person to begin with and neither was he. We were a mutual escape and source of acceptance away from our seriously screwed up FOOs. Last night he told me that I don't accept him and that he's never felt like I accept him. I said I probably never have accepted him. I liked the way he made me feel about myself. I liked him and everything he embodied. That doesn't tarnish my love for him though, I'm just unable to accept him as he is, an actively using alcoholic.)

What have I been doing? I've been waiting for an encore performance of last year's January to May sobriety stint. It hasn't come. I don't see it waiting eminently on the horizon. I have fully lived up to 'for better or worse' because I've experienced both. He hasn't been any kind of prominent or reliable figure in our 18 month old's life and he was an absolute monster during my pregnancy with her. I've given for worse a long time to pass and it hasn't. It's still bad just less explosive. I don't want to stay miserable.

I don't think you're stupid. I think you're afraid. I have had that Twain quote on my signature for a year. Fear doesn't go away, you meet it, shake it's hand and then walk through it. Faith is being unsure and going forward anyway trusting that life is inherently good and that there is something more or better out in the world for you. The steps are for me, not my marriage. The steps are so I can look in the mirror and have respect for the woman I see looking back at me. I want my children to see my example that you do not stay with people who do not respect you and who do not treat you right. Their dad is their dad and those are the cards they were dealt. You cannot change the cards your are dealt in life but as a parent I can teach them how to play them to their own benefit and the best way to do that is to lead by example. Parents are the primary role models in their children's lives. I want to demonstrate kindness, honesty and respect. I do that by treating myself with those values and that means also not accepting bad behaviors from others and not being so arrogant to think that I can make someone else see the errors in their own ways.

I know what I want. I'm not going to wait and hope that it comes to me by divine intervention. I'm going to work my ass off and make tough decisions even though they hurt like a son of a bitch right now.

Mango blast

Bravo! Stung, I am so sorry you're hurting. I truly believe there's so much good ahead for you and your girls. You are finding your way and are a remarkable, beautiful woman.

I would never discount what divine intervention looks like. Maybe it already came to you in an unexpected form. You are not alone.

SparkleKitty

You inspire me, Stung. You don't have to defend your choices to anyone, including him. I'm sorry you're hurting, but very proud of you. This is what acceptance looks like.

Stung

I don't mean divine intervention in a religious way. I don't know what a higher power wants or thinks or feels. I think that's something that is impossible to know or understand. One of the daily readers talks about a higher power not of their understanding. Yeah, that.

I think divine intervention is waking up everyday. For some reason I'm still alive this morning and I get another day to try to be happy and enjoy this life that I have. I'm grateful for pain. I'm grateful for another growth opportunity. I'm grateful that I get another shot to find happiness today, even if that means I have to hurt too.

FireSprite

Oh, Stung. My heart just broke reading this today. I don't have awesome, sage wisdom to share because I have gone through this so many times myself over the last few years & I don't feel like it's something I understand enough to offer advice about.

But I understand this feeling SO much. I have been to this emotional point more than once but without the relapses/failed moderation/whatever you wanna call it & I think that would be a HUGE factor for me. I know it would try my patience because it's impossible to ignore. With my RAH it's always been more about the associated behaviors/underlying damage & that be so hard to see clearly enough to make a judgment call sometimes. It's difficult to gauge someone else's progress in this way; with drinking it seems more obvious.

I do know that feeling of still being in love with someone but realizing that you may be better off apart. I have not been shy about letting it be known to RAH that love is NOT enough to make me want to stay, that I'm not threatening divorce but that I won't be afraid of it if it comes down to it. I think he considered it Codie-quacking (maybe rightfully, I may have expressed it so often that it was perceived as an threat) until last month when I thought he had truly relapsed & I packed all of his crap by the time he surfaced again.

I wasn't freaking out, I was disappointed & hurt. I wasn't making a big dramatic scene, I was resigned. I think until *that* moment, he never really took me seriously. Never thought I'd really leave him while I still loved him & while he was "trying", thought I'd always give him the benefit of the doubt & that there'd always be room for explanations & excuses.

And that's what it all boiled down to - excuses. But I'm not making excuses when it comes to showing my daughter a living example to follow. I refuse to knowingly allow her to be conditioned to accept the unacceptable. I'm not going to be that mom that expects her to "do as I say, not as I do".

Sending lots of strength & love your way today, ((((((HUGS))))))

lillamy

You've been clear-thinking, compassionate, and unrelenting throughout all of this. I admire you, and I know you will get to wherever you're going with poise and love and clarity.

hopeful4

Oh Stung, I am sorry. I just hate to hear you hurting.

You went through a time of peace and now you are in a time of chaos. I know you are hurting. What if he had three months of sobriety then relapses again, it's a cycle. It's the constantly waiting for it to go from good to bad. I did it for years. There were good times too, and nothing can negate that. However, eventually it wears on one too much to continue. He keeps asking what he should do. It's quite obvious with all of those things that he has an addictive personality. Until he can admit that, and get help for that, it won't likely change.

I hope you get some rest and much needed peace very soon.

Hugs my friend XXX

Stung

Thanks guys.

He's now asking me if we can all spend the weekend together. Ugh.

Alex, I'll take "What Is No?" for $500, please.

Thank goodness I have my regular meeting tomorrow. I think tomorrow is going to be a daddy/daughters day while I have a Stung Only day. He's not going to make this easy for me.

Hammer

You REALLY do not follow I was only talking about Not Doing the Steps?

I too, bailed about 1 day into Step 4. Got what I wanted . . . . and moved to the Beach, so to speak.

That was my first pass into this . . . and Fail.

Does not lead to a good outcome. You will figure this out.

We will talk about all that if you want -- AFTER you finish the Steps.

Hawkeye13

You know Hammer, I think it is great you are finding solace and growth in the steps,
but one thing I really see in all of this, and that Stung has talked about in this post,
is that the kids are still a factor and as a spouse and co-dependent, you are making a choice to stay that
your kids can't.

Her kids are still exposed, as long as she stays in this relationship, to a relapsing un-recovered addict,
and I admire her for realizing that this is "normalizing" dysfunction and modeling unhealthy relationships.


When is enough enough?

redatlanta

Your higher power offers you the street - your choice to walk down it. Your higher power wants you to be happy. That is all.

Stung

Um, what?! Too? What exactly have I bailed on? If you write that I've bailed on my husband or my marriage I'm going to block you in a hot second! I don't have any interest to read that kind of nonsense.

I'm sorry that you have had several failed attempts with the steps, sir, but I have not. Please do not confuse my journey with yours. I continue to work on myself with all of the resources that I have available to me.

Hammer

You have it sort of backwards.

The KIDS are the ones wanting the stay together part.

Mrs. Hammer already has a Court set move out date of April 1. (April Fool's Day, no less ). But she does not seem to be stirring in that direction.

As for me, I am pretty much like -- whatever.

I am not going to third person discussion Stung on her own thread.