Lightening Round
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
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CJ -- Don't make me start posting MakeMeASamich pictures on Stung's Thread. 
Stung -- Listen to CJ. She is deep in her Steps, now. Means she Is Very Close to the Angels. (you follow I am really NOT joking about this?)
I should listen too, but do not do so well. Be smarter than me.
Stung -- Listen to CJ. She is deep in her Steps, now. Means she Is Very Close to the Angels. (you follow I am really NOT joking about this?)
I should listen too, but do not do so well. Be smarter than me.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
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He takes your directives extremely well. He lives away, keeps his drinking bouts away from you and girls, and continues to work, as well as work recovery. He also stepped up when you were ill. He stopped contact with FOO too?
Anyway, we'll see where this takes us. He knows I'm serious, I know I'm serious. I have been fantasizing about what I would do if I were on my own and I would definitely move closer to the beach.
I already have a car that I own outright, I already make my own money, we're already separated physically except that we spend our weekends together as a family. My heart is the only thing that is holding me here in maybe-land. Maybe he'll get and stay sober…maybe not. If not, my heart and mind don't want to spend an indefinite amount of time stuck in this cycle.Truly, the fact that he is relapsing about once a month is my problem. If he was relapsing with much less frequency it wouldn't be so much of a big deal to me. I know that relapsing is a part of the disease. I get it. But this is just too frequent for me. It's like he has a relapse period every month and becomes a smelly, bloated jerk for one week every month. I want longer stretches of sobriety at the very least. Now I'm negotiating with myself. Oy.
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Ugh. I sure don't miss that. I just can't be with someone who is in active addiction. It's too crazy-making. I'm sorry you're going through it. I hope you find the strength to get yourself some freedom. You're totally right when you say that you only get one life. Make the best of yours!
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I agree with Thumper Stung - looks like active addiction just white knuckling in between.
Dude I get what you are saying about if he only relapsed here and there - what you are describing is not an alcoholic, rather a binge drinker without the addiction.
Dude I get what you are saying about if he only relapsed here and there - what you are describing is not an alcoholic, rather a binge drinker without the addiction.
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Originally Posted by Stung 
It's like he has a relapse period every month and becomes a smelly, bloated jerk for one week every month.
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Originally Posted by redatlanta
I agree with Thumper Stung - looks like active addiction just white knuckling in between.
Dude I get what you are saying about if he only relapsed here and there - what you are describing is not an alcoholic, rather a binge drinker without the addiction.
Dude I get what you are saying about if he only relapsed here and there - what you are describing is not an alcoholic, rather a binge drinker without the addiction.
With actual recovery, people become responsible and reliable again. He isn't "relapsing once a month," he is an active alcoholic managing to stay dry for periods of time. But he isn't changing inside because he isn't truly sober. And vice versa.
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Stung, I agree with RedAtlanta and Thumper both here.
I wouldn't even call this relapse -- he's just getting better at the addiction scam.
My XAH did this, including all the treatment, all the rehabs. He wasn't quite as compliant as yours, but if I'd asked him to do all these things and the means were there, he probably would have. He was a gentle-hearted idiot, not an *******, just a textbook addict with all the sad and bad habits that went with it. Very passive, very enmeshed, very avoidant. One of those bad habits was lying about how his recovery was going. Dude knew the recovery language so well he could have chaired every meeting and IOP session he went to. XAH was an alcohol-dependent alcoholic when I realized he had the problem and forced him into detox, but over time, enough recovery "stuck" that he only drank a little here and there, always in secret, and it was impossible to tell how much or how often. I only know because I caught him. You can call it "relapse," but to me it's all skin in the same game. It was weird and sick. It made me weird and sick.
That said, if I peeled back the surface on any of his stories during his "relapse" period, he wasn't attending AA as religiously as he swore, didn't call a sponsor, didn't go to counseling. Sometimes he'd say he was going to AA, and head to the liquor store, or just drive somewhere and park for an hour instead. He'd go through the motions, I think, because the idea of being a known addict who completely gave in to his addiction and didn't keep up appearances was unthinkable to him, but behind the facade he was deep in disease. Best case scenario, my XAH (and yours) did everything he's supposed to do in recovery and was still drinking. To me, that was unacceptable.
Knowing the language, going through the motions, talking the talk -- it doesn't save you.
My only suggestion to you is to quit talking to him about it. What does he do when you're not interfering, cajoling, bargaining, asking, probing, and making ultimatums? Sit back and watch, girl. Say nothing, do nothing. What does he do when you don't interfere? Because that is the guy you're married to -- not the one who is more committed to faking it than he is committed to recovery.
For me I really had to see and understand how this was very much about him, and no interference or ultimatum of mine was useful to him in his recovery. Every single alcoholic pattern that I witnessed and hated in our marriage? It's still going on today with slightly different players in slightly different environments. It was at that point I stopped looking at him, and started making real concrete plans for me without him.
I wouldn't even call this relapse -- he's just getting better at the addiction scam.
My XAH did this, including all the treatment, all the rehabs. He wasn't quite as compliant as yours, but if I'd asked him to do all these things and the means were there, he probably would have. He was a gentle-hearted idiot, not an *******, just a textbook addict with all the sad and bad habits that went with it. Very passive, very enmeshed, very avoidant. One of those bad habits was lying about how his recovery was going. Dude knew the recovery language so well he could have chaired every meeting and IOP session he went to. XAH was an alcohol-dependent alcoholic when I realized he had the problem and forced him into detox, but over time, enough recovery "stuck" that he only drank a little here and there, always in secret, and it was impossible to tell how much or how often. I only know because I caught him. You can call it "relapse," but to me it's all skin in the same game. It was weird and sick. It made me weird and sick.
That said, if I peeled back the surface on any of his stories during his "relapse" period, he wasn't attending AA as religiously as he swore, didn't call a sponsor, didn't go to counseling. Sometimes he'd say he was going to AA, and head to the liquor store, or just drive somewhere and park for an hour instead. He'd go through the motions, I think, because the idea of being a known addict who completely gave in to his addiction and didn't keep up appearances was unthinkable to him, but behind the facade he was deep in disease. Best case scenario, my XAH (and yours) did everything he's supposed to do in recovery and was still drinking. To me, that was unacceptable.
Knowing the language, going through the motions, talking the talk -- it doesn't save you.
My only suggestion to you is to quit talking to him about it. What does he do when you're not interfering, cajoling, bargaining, asking, probing, and making ultimatums? Sit back and watch, girl. Say nothing, do nothing. What does he do when you don't interfere? Because that is the guy you're married to -- not the one who is more committed to faking it than he is committed to recovery.
For me I really had to see and understand how this was very much about him, and no interference or ultimatum of mine was useful to him in his recovery. Every single alcoholic pattern that I witnessed and hated in our marriage? It's still going on today with slightly different players in slightly different environments. It was at that point I stopped looking at him, and started making real concrete plans for me without him.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 485
Hi Stung,
I just wanted to say that I know are situations are not the same, but I relate SO MUCH to what you're saying here. My separated AH has never been a daily/weekly drinker. He bottles his stuff up and then goes into binge-mode for a week at a time and is completely MIA. Then comes the regret and shame and the promises. When he's "on" with our family, he's great. He takes good care of our two little boys and is active in their lives, going to the games and the parent-teacher conferences. But I'm coming up on one year of separation and I don't see change. Since I left, he's drank 3-4 times that I know of (he also can't hide being drunk). So he can go a good two months in between. But his anxiety and what I believe is PTSD are always there. He's able to barely keep his business going (lost two clients last binge) and sometimes he'll try to get back into his fitness regime but it's always derailed when he decides to drink. I am just sick of waiting on him to get his **** together. I feel like so much energy is directed toward him and his issues, and I just want to have a partner who can step up and do what needs to be done to be able to be 100% reliable and there all the time. I have just been clinging to sticking it out and waiting for him to change, but I just turned 33 and this is not what I want to spend the rest of my life doing! There are so many things I want to do. As a family, between us, we could be traveling and doing all kinds of great things and enjoying life, and I just don't see it happening as long as we're stuck waiting for this cycle to finally end.
I always look forward to your posts and find your strength inspiring!
-Emmy
I just wanted to say that I know are situations are not the same, but I relate SO MUCH to what you're saying here. My separated AH has never been a daily/weekly drinker. He bottles his stuff up and then goes into binge-mode for a week at a time and is completely MIA. Then comes the regret and shame and the promises. When he's "on" with our family, he's great. He takes good care of our two little boys and is active in their lives, going to the games and the parent-teacher conferences. But I'm coming up on one year of separation and I don't see change. Since I left, he's drank 3-4 times that I know of (he also can't hide being drunk). So he can go a good two months in between. But his anxiety and what I believe is PTSD are always there. He's able to barely keep his business going (lost two clients last binge) and sometimes he'll try to get back into his fitness regime but it's always derailed when he decides to drink. I am just sick of waiting on him to get his **** together. I feel like so much energy is directed toward him and his issues, and I just want to have a partner who can step up and do what needs to be done to be able to be 100% reliable and there all the time. I have just been clinging to sticking it out and waiting for him to change, but I just turned 33 and this is not what I want to spend the rest of my life doing! There are so many things I want to do. As a family, between us, we could be traveling and doing all kinds of great things and enjoying life, and I just don't see it happening as long as we're stuck waiting for this cycle to finally end.
I always look forward to your posts and find your strength inspiring!
-Emmy
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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Well, I don't necessarily care whether we call it active alcoholism or relapsing or whatever. The drama and everything else that comes from his behaviors when he drinks is really is what is too much for me. If he didn't turn into a completely different person when he drinks then I wouldn't care at all to begin with.
My husband actually was a daily drinker. He started with bargaining with himself that he'll only drink on weekends, then that he'd only drink in the evenings, etc. until things came to a head last December and I made him stay away from me AND our girls until he'd been sober for 30 days. Then he was sober from January to May. Now he'll reach 30ish days, occasionally 60 days and then he drinks again for a few days to a week at a time. He's also become a better husband and dad over the last year. Neither my therapist or our marriage therapist denies or doubts that he is *trying* and they continually remind me that relapse is part of the disease.
I'm sure that he DOES want to be sober but at this time whatever is missing from his recovery just isn't there yet, or won't ever be, I don't know. He also has never had any trouble come from his drinking aside from consequences that I have doled out. His family are still enablers, friends are still enablers, no consequences at work, no legal troubles, just me continually kicking him out of our home and now drawing a very clear line in the sand.
My separated AH has never been a daily/weekly drinker.
I'm sure that he DOES want to be sober but at this time whatever is missing from his recovery just isn't there yet, or won't ever be, I don't know. He also has never had any trouble come from his drinking aside from consequences that I have doled out. His family are still enablers, friends are still enablers, no consequences at work, no legal troubles, just me continually kicking him out of our home and now drawing a very clear line in the sand.
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AH got into a fender bender in my Prius (texting while driving, not drinking while driving, yet - but accidents do happen, this is no biggie to me plus it's my car and I own it outright) and he has been somewhat obsessed with wanting to get the body work repaired. It's my car, I own it outright and it's only body damage not anything mechanical. He got a quote for the repairs today that is nearly the total value of my car. I basically said "over my dead body. Just give me my car back and I'll drive it as is. It works just fine." Then we got off the phone because it was a completely unproductive phone call. This afternoon I was looking for a specific Randy Pausch quote from his book The Last Lecture which is about a nearly identical situation. Here's the quote I wanted:
But before I found it I came across these and they're pretty profound for where I am at in my life right now. I think I'm going to go back and read his book again.
Well, you can’t have just some of me, Jai,” I told her. “You appreciate the part of me that didn’t get angry because two ‘things’ we own got hurt. But the flip side of that is my belief that you don’t repair things if they still do what they’re supposed to do. The cars still work.
Let’s just drive ’em.
Let’s just drive ’em.
Look, I'm going to find a way to be happy, and I'd really love to be happy with you, but if I can't be happy with you, then I'll find a way to be happy without you.
No matter how bad things are, you can always make things worse. At the same time, it is often within your power to make them better.
Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. And experience is often the most valuable thing you have to offer.
The key question to keep asking is, Are you spending your time on the right things? Because time is all you have.
If I only had three words of advice, they would be, Tell the Truth. If I got three more words, I'd add, all the time.
Too many people go through life complaining about their problems. I've always believed that if you took one tenth the energy you put into complaining and applied it to solving the problem, you'd be surprised by how well things can work out.
Believe nothing a man tells you and everything he shows you"....(Taken from a farewell video from a dying father to his infant daughter on dating)
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That's the only one I have trouble with. I feel like my husband shows me a side that is trying in earnest to be better. Should the drinking trump everything else he shows me? This is where I go in circles with myself. How do you weigh person's actions when people (especially addicts) are so complex?
His house manager is allowing him to stay in his house because his honesty and actions are those of a person in recovery even though he relapsed. He's been organizing the other guys in the house to go to meetings with him and play basketball on the weekends. He's recruited another roommate to do a step study with him (because I told him last week that is what he NEEDED to do. Damn myself and my bossy ass ways!) and because of those things they are allowing him to stay.
I don't know what his actions say. But if he drinks again, I know I will stay true to my word.
So now I'll just focus on whether or not I'm spending my time on the right things…like figuring out what makes me happy and pursuing it.
His house manager is allowing him to stay in his house because his honesty and actions are those of a person in recovery even though he relapsed. He's been organizing the other guys in the house to go to meetings with him and play basketball on the weekends. He's recruited another roommate to do a step study with him (because I told him last week that is what he NEEDED to do. Damn myself and my bossy ass ways!) and because of those things they are allowing him to stay.
I don't know what his actions say. But if he drinks again, I know I will stay true to my word.
So now I'll just focus on whether or not I'm spending my time on the right things…like figuring out what makes me happy and pursuing it.
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It ends when we're ready to make it stop. Our program really does run parallel to theirs. He's not ready to stop but I am. I don't need to see how much worse this can get. This is bad enough.
I told my husband tonight that I don't want to do this anymore. I asked him what I'm supposed to do. He became angry and mean. His slips are justified apparently because my program isn't perfect. Apparently everything is easy for me.
I told him I just want to be happy. I just want to be happy.
But my heart is so broken. I'm outside of a new meeting that I haven't attended before and I know I should go I side because it's part of taking care of myself but I just want to sit here and cry. When does this ever stop? Does it ever stop? My heart physically hurts.
I want off of the ride. This isn't how I wanted to exit though. He kept barking at me that I needed to say that I want a divorce. He wanted me to say those exact words. I couldn't but I don't need to for him to know what's happening. He wants to blame me. He should. I'm not doing everything I can do but I'm so tired at this point. I just want to be happy.
I told my husband tonight that I don't want to do this anymore. I asked him what I'm supposed to do. He became angry and mean. His slips are justified apparently because my program isn't perfect. Apparently everything is easy for me.
I told him I just want to be happy. I just want to be happy.
But my heart is so broken. I'm outside of a new meeting that I haven't attended before and I know I should go I side because it's part of taking care of myself but I just want to sit here and cry. When does this ever stop? Does it ever stop? My heart physically hurts.
I want off of the ride. This isn't how I wanted to exit though. He kept barking at me that I needed to say that I want a divorce. He wanted me to say those exact words. I couldn't but I don't need to for him to know what's happening. He wants to blame me. He should. I'm not doing everything I can do but I'm so tired at this point. I just want to be happy.
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Oh stung. I'm so sorry. Big, huge, giant hugs to you and your girls.
Sounds like he is wanting to be the victim here. When I left it was a boundary, not an ultimatum.
I will not live in a home with active alcoholism.
He still twists reality around to me "walking out on him" because I got into a fight with his mom. So he can be the victim. And not have to quit drinking. Because the problem is really something else.
I think your husband is at a slightly earlier phase of his alcoholism than my ex and can still exercise some modicum of control over his drinking. There is more of the "him" that you love still in there. I couldn't have left too much earlier than I did, because those glimpses of "him" kept me stuck.
I waited until my ex was no longer functional to leave. Not proud of that, and also not pushing you to take a step that you're not ready to take.
He is staying sick and you are healing. No crystal ball here. Not even a Magic 8 Ball. Just support for whatever choice you make. If this was easy we wouldn't agonize over it the way we do.
Sounds like he is wanting to be the victim here. When I left it was a boundary, not an ultimatum.
I will not live in a home with active alcoholism.
He still twists reality around to me "walking out on him" because I got into a fight with his mom. So he can be the victim. And not have to quit drinking. Because the problem is really something else.
I think your husband is at a slightly earlier phase of his alcoholism than my ex and can still exercise some modicum of control over his drinking. There is more of the "him" that you love still in there. I couldn't have left too much earlier than I did, because those glimpses of "him" kept me stuck.
I waited until my ex was no longer functional to leave. Not proud of that, and also not pushing you to take a step that you're not ready to take.
He is staying sick and you are healing. No crystal ball here. Not even a Magic 8 Ball. Just support for whatever choice you make. If this was easy we wouldn't agonize over it the way we do.
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