denial dance of the alcoholic. again.

Old 01-13-2015, 11:19 PM
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denial dance of the alcoholic. again.

My best guy friend was at a location working today where he ran into ex bf who was also working next door. He said he was drunk. Having a few drinks with the client. ( the client is usually the only one having "a few.")

He said hi and asked how I was doing. My friend said: "Look, I don't want to get in the middle of this. I'm really uncomfortable. I would prefer not to talk about you and her."

exabf: "I just want to know how she is doing."

Friend: She is doing great, kicking butt at what she wanted to accomplish and working hard. She is really happy honestly. She is in a really good place.

exabf: I don't understand why she won't talk to me, she won't take my email, see me. I just got cut off. I walk by her apartment all the time and look at her windows to see if the light is on. I miss her so much, think about her all the time. She is all I think about.

Friend: well, you know why. You have a drinking problem.

exabf: I don't have a drinking problem. I'm fine. Look, I'm happy, I am working all the time now. I have been working with "big client" all week here. If I was dating her right now, she would just be nagging me on set arguing with me to come home and ask me if I had been drinking. ( I have never done that, its unprofessional and I only asked him if he was drinking when he stayed unusually late and blew us off.)

Friend: Look man, she is standing her ground on her decision. She thinks she made the right one and she is moving on. She loved you and she still loves you. She truly cared about you more than any other guy she ever loved but you really messed things up because of the drinking and now you have to accept her decision if you don't want to change it. She is truly trying to move on with her life. I have had a lot of friends in your shoes, and if you don't do something about it you are going to really hurt your body.

He said that as he told exabf HE was the only person I had ever loved that much, he started to cry and turned around for a second. ( I see manipulation here. or just overjoyed at hearing how much I still love him due to his alcoholic selective hearing.)

My friend called me and said he felt really cornered, uncomfortable, and that within that 10 minutes exabf did not seem even a little emotionally stable. He was up and "fine" one minute saying he didn't have a problem, and the next down in the pits on the verge of tears. Then back up again. I don't recognize this behavior seems worse?

On top of it, as we were talking, exabf started texting him many texts including:

"Heey, It was not easy to run into you tonight, you have always been nice to me but that doesn't mean I appreciate you making me cry within two minutes of seeing you. It was nice to see you tonight. She is lucky to have you as a friend and it is none of my business but b/c I love her and always will I want to thank you for being someone in her life besides her dad that has been constant and kind."


I am sorry this is long!


First, All of this seemed inappropriate to me. He blamed me for his drinking the last I talked to him, and hung up on me. And he is saying I cut him off? I didn't answer your call after you HUNG UP ON ME. I chose to move on from your alcoholism.

second, I am so frustrated that after all he has put us through, & admitted to, he has now reverted back again to " I don't have a problem."

And third, Is this an alcoholic gimmick to call me a nag? I have to be honest, In the 4 years we were together I never once called him at work and said why aren't you home. I think he eluded to this in saying. " She would be nagging me to come home and asking me if I was drinking." Yes. I was concerned about the drinking, not trying to keep him from clients.


I sat in my bed tonight like, WTF. He is really always drama and chaos. I really do not miss this feeling of him making me feel like I am our problem and not his drinking. Can anyone comment on the nagging thing and on the sheer denial? Do they really believe this stuff themselves?
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Old 01-13-2015, 11:49 PM
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I was with my exABF for close to 7 years. He blamed me for drinking due to 'nagging'. When I reminded him that he was drunk the night I met him (yes-red flag) and subsequently almost every time thereafter, he still blames me for his drinking.

I also have a 5 year old son with this man. I was on this site about 3-4 years ago steadily for months. I should have left him back then, but didn't. I have now.

He blames me for EVERYTHING. I started dating when we broke up and then kind of circled back around to him because of my confused state of mind. When I told him it wasn't going to work, I was a no-good, unloyal, w*7re. He ridiculed me for years and beat me down to the point where my self-esteem was in the gutter. It still is to some degree, but I am getting it back through taking care of my body and through making friends out in the world again. People genuinely like me everywhere I go. I have had people (including every boss I have worked for) tell me what a loyal, honest, hard working individual I am (and SMART), and yet, this xABF of mine was able to make me feel lower than I ever have in my life. I have never been in this type of abusive relationship before, but I am still trying to find happiness being away from him.

I got used to the abuse cycle. The thing I realized though is that although I have forgiven him so many times for the abusiveness, that he never sees me clearly and in a good light. I am always the enemy and in the trenches fighting for my sanity. I am the cause and the root of any bad will that has ever occurred in our relationship. Regardless of the fact that I financially supported him and our child (and still fully support our child), worked hard to get my business degree, and have made responsible choices, I am a no-good lying cheating woman.

It only escalates and gets worse. The delusional thinking while drinking gets much worse. My xABF actually thought that someone in a night club poisoned him by touching a metal part of her purse that was laced with plutonium on his arm and that he was going to die a slow death causing him first to amputate his own arm. o.0

If you didn't have a child with him, be glad. There are emotionally available men out there with good jobs and a good head on their shoulders. Just don't go to a bar to look for them!
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Old 01-14-2015, 04:25 AM
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In my experience, they continue to blame everyone and anyone around them. Until he seeks the help he needs (on his own no doubt) he will continue to blame HIS drinking problem on those close to him or on those who he feels has "wronged" him.

Wish the best for both of you. You seem to have your head on straight and have stuck to your decision. Keep working your program!
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Old 01-14-2015, 05:13 AM
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Yes. They really do twist everything in their heads to make them the victim. They really DO believe the crap they make up, their lies and their own BS.

Until they really work their 4 step thoroughly it doesn't change and even then if they don't honestly work it all the way through, it doesn't change.

I know your icky feeling, and all I can say, is it sounds like you have worked hard to move forward. Don't let this blip throw you off and don't put a lot of thought into it. There is always a game of manipulation involved. XBF asks BF to talk to him. Then unloads a victimized statement, fully expecting your BF to relay message back to you. Then since you didn't codie up and contact him, he text BF and released the blame on him.

Man, it is so simple to see clearly into things when your not emotionally involved but for my own relationship I should have took my own advice there about 5 years ago. Lol.

As much as they suffer, so do we & sometimes I think it is way harder on us to stay on track. For them to heal, they must choose to be better, choose a program, work it, then abstain. THEY get to make the choice to abstain.

For us, we can choose to get better, work a program, choose to abstain, but our choice is somewhat limited, because you just never know when you will be blindsided by seeing them, having them contact you, or having a very well meaning friend relay info such as this.

My BFF text me this morning and told me where she seen the XRAH truck parked. I know she means well, but honestly this morning I had a good vibe going on, then the text, and now I feel icky.

Hang tough Girl. Its all his to own & you got a fabulous life to live!
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Old 01-14-2015, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by aboutdone View Post
For us, we can choose to get better, work a program, choose to abstain, but our choice is somewhat limited, because you just never know when you will be blindsided by seeing them, having them contact you, or having a very well meaning friend relay info such as this.
Well said Aboutdone!
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Old 01-14-2015, 05:29 AM
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Yep, everything's still my fault. He's even married now, so shouldn't everything be HER fault?
@chronsweet, I hear you about the paranoia. My ex accused me of sending a "hitman" after him.
Um, no, that was the process server who had to wait for you outside the courtroom because you've been hiding out at your wife's house trying to dodge court papers.
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Old 01-14-2015, 05:42 AM
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Hey, everything is my fault, too! And I'm to blame for all the relapses! And his friends and family say the same thing! Hurray! He threatened suicide yesterday, I contacted his mother to let her know, and he got pissed at me and said he was just kidding. Then he tried to have sex with me twice last night. And all this because I left work fifteen minutes later than I said I might. FTS...

I today have kicked him out, and told him no contact. I know I'm not supposed to be pissed and tell him how angry I am, but I can't help it. Now I have to figure out what to tell our son, who is six.
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Old 01-14-2015, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ladyscribbler View Post
Yep, everything's still my fault. He's even married now, so shouldn't everything be HER fault?
I'm sorry...this made me LOL all over the place. I needed this laugh, as mean as it may be. Thanks, ladyscribbler!
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Old 01-14-2015, 05:52 AM
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My thought is what was motive for guy friend even mentioning conversation?
He didn't want to get in the middle yet proceeded to?

IMo it was inappropriate for guy friend to let himself get dragged into the middle and THEN tell you about it, dragging you back into it.

Yerngona waste a lot of time tryin to figure out the alcoholic when ya should be taking that time to work to work on you.
He wants to say he doesn't have a problem and now you're making it your problem.
He's not your monkey and not your circus.
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Old 01-14-2015, 06:00 AM
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Yeah, maybe it's time to have a little chat with guy friend about giving out any information about you to the alcoholic, or reporting conversations with him to you. He may have meant well, but you can tell him that you are doing your best to stay OUT of his life, and that these conversations upset you. You can tell him that "how you are doing" is none of the alcoholic's business, and what the alcoholic says/does is none of YOUR business. The one exception would be if the alcoholic says something you NEED to know for your own safety (e.g., that he is stalking you or planning to show up at your house unannounced).

Actually, the fact that the alcoholic is walking by your apartment, looking at the windows to see if the light is on, is somewhat disturbing. Does he normally have reason to walk by your apartment? If not, that is potentially a form of stalking. If it disturbs you, you can apply for a protective order/restraining order. Or you could ask your friend to inform him that you are creeped out by it and that he should stop--which could give you a basis for a stalking charge/protective order if he doesn't stop.
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Old 01-14-2015, 06:13 AM
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Your friend should have just said, "She's doing great" and moved on. Goodness.

This is two things. Manipulation. It is also his emotions all over the place b/c he was drunk. That's it.

Keep moving forward and tell your friend not to engage anymore.

XXX
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Old 01-14-2015, 06:17 AM
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Here's the simple truth: he is not done drinking. Everything else is noise; there is no benefit to analyzing what he said, what he thinks, or his version of what occurred. He is drinking and will continue to do so until he is ready to give it up. And although that sounds like a simple choice with obvious benefits, that is not how it lands for an alcoholic. Drinking is how he gets through life, and the thought of giving up the one thing that consistently worked in making it possible to get through life on life's terms is like asking him to give up oxygen. Totally irrational, but that is his reality. Which is why trying to apply logic to his thinking or actions is folly. He is an alcoholic - this is what alcoholics do. It's not about you, how much he loves you, or any of the other ways one could logically try to parse an alcoholics choices.

AA's big book describes the day of reckoning when an alcoholic seriously decides to quit as "the jumping off place." That is a great description... standing on a cliff, not knowing how high you are or what lies at the bottom, but knowing that you simply cannot stand where you are anymore. So you jump, because life is intolerable and any consequence of this jump, including death, is preferable to another day in addiction.

Don't invest any more spiritual energy on trying to control or understand the ex. As to the guy friend - simply tell him he was way out of line discussing your business. He meant well, but should have paid attention to his discomfort: he was out of bounds and his discomfort was telling him so.
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Old 01-14-2015, 06:20 AM
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I agree, for not wanting to get involved your friend gave you quite the details of the conversation. I mean you had paragraphs verbatim. Tell your friend next time he runs into him to keep your name out of it. No purpose was served with any of this but keeping you up at night.
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Old 01-14-2015, 06:24 AM
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Please allow me to add my name to the list of "guilty" ones. So refreshing to find a thread where we can all take the blame together!

My situation is a little easier than others, because my ex is consistently hostile to me. I don't have to deal with the push/pull stuff. I evolved from Thanksgiving through New Years from a place of hoping sometimes for a different outcome, to realizing that I cannot be with this person and be healthy.

If anyone tried what your friend did with me, I would be tempted to go NC with them. Just sayin'
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Old 01-14-2015, 06:28 AM
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Such a wise post by Eddiebuckle.

I think we should all read it every week and as needed, lol.

The very best thing about an ex is that you no longer have to think about his stuff. Kick all that crazy out of your head. No good comes from keeping it there. You have moved on. Don't look over your shoulder.
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Old 01-14-2015, 06:32 AM
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I'm with Eddie on this. Stop worrying about who says what to whom. I don't fault your friend for what he disclosed. If I tried to unravel every story my Ex tells everyone, I'd go nuts.

Let it go. Stay your course in life and send your energy to the positive path ahead for you instead of the negative past behind you. Your EX took up enough of your head when you were together. Don't let him do it now.
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Old 01-14-2015, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Sungrl View Post
. Tell your friend next time he runs into him to keep your name out of it. No purpose was served with any of this but keeping you up at night.
and also if said guy friend tries something like this again you have the right to stand up and say something to the effect," it's not my business and I don't want to hear it."
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Old 01-14-2015, 08:13 AM
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Yep, everything's still my fault. He's even married now, so shouldn't everything be HER fault?
I'm pretty sure if you ask AXH, global warming, the unemployment rates, and the ebola epidemic in West Africa are also my fault.

And I loved what Eddie had to say. And I think this part could be made the header of the SR page for friends and family, because it's the absolute truth:

Here's the simple truth: he is not done drinking. Everything else is noise; there is no benefit to analyzing what he said, what he thinks, or his version of what occurred. He is drinking and will continue to do so until he is ready to give it up. And although that sounds like a simple choice with obvious benefits, that is not how it lands for an alcoholic. Drinking is how he gets through life, and the thought of giving up the one thing that consistently worked in making it possible to get through life on life's terms is like asking him to give up oxygen. Totally irrational, but that is his reality. Which is why trying to apply logic to his thinking or actions is folly. He is an alcoholic - this is what alcoholics do. It's not about you, how much he loves you, or any of the other ways one could logically try to parse an alcoholics choices.
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Old 01-14-2015, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Eddiebuckle View Post
Here's the simple truth: he is not done drinking. Everything else is noise; there is no benefit to analyzing what he said, what he thinks, or his version of what occurred. He is drinking and will continue to do so until he is ready to give it up. And although that sounds like a simple choice with obvious benefits, that is not how it lands for an alcoholic. Drinking is how he gets through life, and the thought of giving up the one thing that consistently worked in making it possible to get through life on life's terms is like asking him to give up oxygen. Totally irrational, but that is his reality. Which is why trying to apply logic to his thinking or actions is folly. He is an alcoholic - this is what alcoholics do. It's not about you, how much he loves you, or any of the other ways one could logically try to parse an alcoholics choices.

AA's big book describes the day of reckoning when an alcoholic seriously decides to quit as "the jumping off place." That is a great description... standing on a cliff, not knowing how high you are or what lies at the bottom, but knowing that you simply cannot stand where you are anymore. So you jump, because life is intolerable and any consequence of this jump, including death, is preferable to another day in addiction.

Don't invest any more spiritual energy on trying to control or understand the ex. As to the guy friend - simply tell him he was way out of line discussing your business. He meant well, but should have paid attention to his discomfort: he was out of bounds and his discomfort was telling him so.
Awesome way to put this. If we want to get well...we MUST stick to our side of the yard. Of course in our codie heart the one we are trying to make quiet...we want to feed it. We MUST starve it. Just like theu have to starve their addiction. It takes every ounce of prayer and study of Gods word and recovery books and fresh air to get tgrough this. Its the MOST important part of our life.
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Old 01-14-2015, 12:24 PM
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first off, guy friend should not have continued to engage on the topic of YOU. nor should he have gone on at such length, and then repeated it ALL back to you nearly verbatim.

as it is - this was not a conversation in which YOU were involved....so it doesn't really matter what was said. but you are now making it a big deal as if YOU spoke to the ex. you too could have said, don't wanna hear it, thanks.

time to get back in your hula hoop, shake off his drama, and move on.
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