Mimi9013

I am looking to start setting some boundaries with my AH. Right now, he goes to work(14-16 hour shifts, his choice) and then gets a couple 40's at night and either passes out or stays up until 1am playing video games. For the past couple weeks, I've been making sure there's no room in bed for him if he's drinking, so he's been sleeping in our daughters twin bed(she sleeps with me) on nights he drinks...although I haven't officially made it a boundary. You may recall he went a 'whole week' without drinking a couple weeks ago, and has been sober two nights since then.

I just don't really know where to start with the boundary and detachment thing since he isn't mean or anything. I don't want our daughter to always see him drinking and I don't want him trying to put moves on me when he's drunk(hence, the sleeping in different beds) because it grosses me out. It makes me feel like a hookup, not his wife. I want to spend time with him when he's home because he's at work more often then not, so I know it will be hard for me to detach when he's drinking because he's always drinking when he's home and I will be lonely

If anyone has any insight on boundaries and detachment for beginners, it'd be much appreciated

thequest

I would start slowly and incrementally. Dealing with a time bomb alkie/addict here so you have to think about every issue/comment. We have to chip away at privileges & assistance.

Personal opinion only but I would try to get him out of your daughters room for starters. Sooner or later your daughter will get tired of this and/or slip up at school or with friends saying "my dad slept in my bed last night" without mentioning she goes into her mothers' room, not good. And sooner or later I would tell no drinking around you or daughter. I would start small and stick to it then add or increase boundaries.

Good Luck, Stay Safe.

Katchie

It sounds like you've already figured out one boundary, or thing(s) that you are not willing to do and have stuck with it -- good for you! As long as he drinks and it bothers you, then the little girls bed it is for him! I believe that is the definition of a boundary.

As far as detachment goes, I have not mastered that, but I know others will be around to help out with that. However, this may be of some help to you: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ment-love.html

Mimi9013

She's still a baby(1.5 yo), and doesn't sleep in her bed often, but I agree.
I also drive him to work, he hasn't had his license in the 4 years we've been together, and I think it's been about 6 years since his last DUI. I make him get a ride after work so our daughter isn't out past bedtime, but he usually goes in before anyone else that works his same schedule. I want to find a way to stop doing that. Our town has a bus system, but they don't go all the way out to his work because it's on the edge of town. It's not really an inconvenience for me to take him, but again trying to detach. It's not my fault he doesn't have a license, it's his, so why should I have to take him to work? And he is eligible to get his license back, but we would need a car that only he drives because he will need an interlock device for a short time. I almost don't want him to get it back though, because he used to drink and drive all the time(obviously) and I'm being a Codie and don't want him to hurt someone or himself. But I've thought about saying if he doesn't get his license back by the end of this year, I won't take him to work anymore. I would only give it that long because we would need to get another car and the process in Illinois is lengthy.

cynical one

Surly there has to be a sofa somewhere in the home that he can sleep on when he is loaded. Though your daughter is still quite young and sleeping with mom when SHE is having a bad night is quite understandable, she also should know that she has her own big girl bed in her own room where she is safe. I don't think using her as a place marker is in her best interest.

Mimi9013

I agree, we actually just got a new recliner and love seat last week, so he does have somewhere else now he can sleep. It was just an extra bed, but I am redoing her room and getting a big girl frame to put it on so she can sleep in there. She won't sleep in her crib anymore, and I'm also making the room it's in now her bedroom and her old room the playroom, so her bedroom will be attached to mine. So, you are right. I don't want him sleeping in her princess bed!!

Thumper

I was in your position for a very very long time. Sometimes the questions are complicated and the answers are simple. Dr. Seuss.!

What you don't want: Him putting the moves on you when he's drinking, him sleeping in your bed when he's drinking, your daughter seeing him drinking, hanging out with him when he's drinking.

What you have: a husband that drinks every single day. There is a random sober day a couple times a month (which IME will soon disappear).

The question of detachment is extremely difficult because you are asking for a way to accept the unacceptable. The answer is simple. You don't. That was my answer. Detachment was relatively easy when I quit accepting the unacceptable. I hear that some people are able to figure it out and still be happy. How is a mystery to me but I hope you are able to find peace in the path you choose.

The question about giving him a ride is also complicated and the answer is simple. The answer is you simply say no and stop doing it and let him figure it out. Very reasonable. The question is complicated because it comes fully loaded with all the fall out that could occur - fall out that you are tied to when you are married. Can you begin taking steps so that his outcomes do not impact you so fully? Increasing your independence increases your freedom of choice.

Many warm thoughts being sent out to you. I encourage you to read the stickies at the top of the page and the al-anon literature and attend meetings if you can. I found all that very helpful. I also really like the book Co Dependent No More.

PS: I slept with my kids too. I like co-sleeping.

ladyscribbler

If he wants his driving privileges back, he should do all the legwork to make it happen. I think you're right and the roads are safer without him on them.
If he agrees to sleep elsewhere when he drinks, then that's good. Nothing wrong with a nice comfy sofa.
That's a fun time, when little ones go from crib to the big kids bed. How awesome that you get to decorate her room. She's going to love her princess bed. I have boys, so it was all about Spider Man at our house. Enjoy this precious time with your baby girl.
Sorry your husband is making such poor choices. Boundaries are really for us, our health, safety and sanity and that of our children. I used to confuse boundaries with rules, which are restrictions on other people's behavior and just end up contributing to the drama.
A rule is- You can't drink in the house.
A boundary is- I won't be in the house when you are drinking.
Effective boundaries are the ones that you are willing and able to enforce.
Big hugs to you and your sweet little princess.

Mimi9013

Thank you! I've started alanon, and I love the little daily readings! I do want to get the book codependent no more as well. It's kind of funny, I used to think I wasn't codependent! Ha! Well, the first step is admittance, right?! I have been trying to work the first step, and it's a lot harder than I thought it would be. I'm very analytical, and in theory, the steps are easy peasy, lemon squeezy. But in practice, it's a lot more difficult.

I've kind of realized that if I want a healthy life for myself and my daughter, we probably won't be together forever! That's a hard pill to swallow, but I know I can't change him, but I can change how my daughter and I handle it. I just want our lives to be as enjoyable as possible while we are still here. And if I have boundaries and stick to them now, he will know I will follow through on big ones too.

FireSprite

You don't want him invading her sanctuary as she gets older either, her space will become important to her as she ages. I think kids need to have a respite place in their own homes if at all possible - especially when there is any kind of dysfunction in the family unit.

Boundaries are tricky so I think the most important thing to remember is that they are YOURS so you can amend/add/subtract them any time you'd like as you grow in your recovery. They also don't have to be verbalized, but sometimes it can be necessary/helpful to do so. I won't live with an active alcoholic so I felt it necessary to let RAH know that because I felt (& he agreed) that DD should stay in the family home in that situation & that requires him to leave. If it came down to it, I couldn't MAKE him honor this so I still need a Plan B.

I always start with my ideal goal and work backward from there to see if it's enforable.

"I won't sleep in the same bed as a person who has been drinking."

Ok, Self, let's play this tape all the way to the end.
I can't stop him from drinking, check.
What if it's every night of the week - is this a boundary I can maintain? (DD/cosleeping/etc.)
What will I do if he crosses this boundary? Is there a Plan B?

Mimi9013

Thanks Ladyscribbler! She already has a pretty Frozen room, but I think it scares her being on the other side of the house from me, so that will be the playroom now! Her room is always the nicest in the house lol. I should make my room nice, too, so I can relax in there when I enforce my boundaries
Do I need to tell him my boundaries? I don't see him sober really except on his way to work. So he would be drinking if I said 'So, I'm not going to sleep in the same bed with you if you're drinking.' Or should I tell him before he goes to work? I always hear on here that it's worthless to talk to an A while they're drinking...

ladyscribbler

You can tell him if you want. I used to feel an almost compulsive need to explain myself and justify my choices to my ex. It took me time to get over it.
I found that the most effective boundaries were the ones I kept to myself and simply enforced when the time came. Any discussion of something like a boundary before the fact always turned into a pointless, energy-sucking argument which was fertile ground for "JADE"ing- Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain.
None of my talking ever got through to him, and it just wore me out. I would have been better served keeping my mouth shut and saving that energy to enforce boundaries.

Thumper

The question becomes what are we willing to do to enforce our own boundaries. I read the above boundary a lot. In practice that boundary would have meant I had two choices. Pack up four young kids and spend every single evening out of the house, all five of us stay holed up in one room of the house, - or we live in different houses. There was no other way to enforce the boundary.

If the OP creates a boundary where she does not sleep with her husband when he's drinking she has limited choices because he drinks pretty much every day.
1. Let him use the living room as a bedroom and walks around him every morning and day.
2. Creates a second bedroom in her house that is his.

I've done it all with the bedroom thing.

For many many years I sacrificed boundaries instead of enforcing them. I basically had no boundaries left. Perhaps that is why I was unable to detach. It was an awful way to live.

ladyscribbler

My ex had no respect or consideration for anyone else. The only effective boundary I ever really had was "I will not live in a home with active alcoholism." It was the boundary that ended our relationship.
Any time I enforced a lesser boundary like not driving him to get alcohol, not giving him money for booze or not taking him out in public with me and the kids when he was drinking there were always massive repercussions afterward.
I wasn't recommending a specific boundary. I don't live Mimi's life, so that wouldn't be appropriate or helpful. I was giving an example of the difference between a boundary and a rule, because that was an area where I struggled.
If Mimi's AH is docile enough to leave the family in peace when he drinks, then she can use that to her advantage. I spent a lot of time staying away from home, avoiding my ex, sleeping at his parents' house because he was a mean, energetic, raging, blackout drunk, not the docile type who just drinks and leaves everyone alone. If he was, I might still be with him, which is pretty sad, but that's who I was before recovery. So all's well that ends well.

hopeful4

My personal opinion would be that I would write a letter. One time.

I would be very non confrontational about it. Keep it focused on "I" statements. And put the boundary in there. Then, keep it.

When I stopped talking about my boundaries and started keeping them is when I knew in my own heart this was serious business.

Mimi9013

I really like the letter idea. I feel I can really express myself in letters better than in conversations. I really want to talk to him about how my feelings about his drinking have changed, and lay out a couple of my boundaries. I'm going to talk to one of the girls at alanon weds who has really gone through many of the same things as me. A girl I work with is an ACOA, and she has given me some insight as to what I don't want DD to go through.

Thank you all for the replies! All advice is always taken in on my end! I really want to work my program and get healthy for me and my babydoll!!

cookiesncream

I'm reading this thread coming from "the other side" (being the AW or these days maybe best described as RAW). I wrote a big long reply yesterday and then realized I hadn't logged on:-( Maybe that was for the best. However since 24 hours have passed and my general feelings are the same (now double-checking yes I am logged on this time) I will try again. I know what I'm going to say is very harsh and I know that many will disagree with me and likely I'll take some heat but here goes anyhow.

First wholeheartedly and totally agree with ladyscribbler The only effective boundary I ever really had was "I will not live in a home with active alcoholism." My thoughts on this subject are based on an outpatient stint, knocking on the door of a year of recovery, and reading TONS of threads here.

Honestly, I know this sounds mean, but I think most of you are too nice with your boundaries. I saw too many people in rehab that were on second and third rounds and their families while not at fault in any way, had tried the nice approach. Based on what I saw it just didn't seem to work very well.

My better half while well meaning poured out booze, told me he thought I was drinking too much, and got angry with me countless times. Honestly none of that was enough motivation for me to suck it up and quit. The day he'd had enough after a rather drama filled incident and he told me in no uncertain terms its either booze or there's the door... that worked. I wrote letters to family fessing up, got my rear into rehab, and have and continue seeing a therapist to deal with the stuff I was self medicating. Now I know that there are people it won't work with, always a risk. There are some of us though that when faced with losing our families WILL choose sobriety but sadly the stakes sometimes have to get pretty high to make us "see the light."

Now that I've given my fifty nine million cents worth truly I think the approach of I will not live in the house with an active alcoholic and plan on STICKING with that boundary really while hard hard hard on your part may well save you a lot of pain and anguish in the long run.

Peace and for all of you who have taken different approaches that have worked I do apologize, I just know what worked for me and I figured that perhaps hearing this from the "A" side might be of some value.

Carpe diem,

Cookies

sauerkraut

"I almost don't want him to get it back though, because he used to drink and drive all the time(obviously) and I'm being a Codie and don't want him to hurt someone or himself."

I'm no expert, but I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to protect other people; please don't beat yourself up about having compassion.

That said, I feel for you with your dilemma and agree that he should figure out his own rides. I'm lucky in that my AH walks, rides his bike or takes public transportation when he's been drinking.

Kudos for making it clear that he can't sleep with you drunk. I'm still working on that boundary, unfortunately.

sauerkraut

Firesprite,
How did you get your husband to agree to move out? I have the same boundary as you (not living with an active alcoholic) except that I don't because I haven't been able to enforce it. He refuses to leave, but it is prohibitively expensive for me to take the kids and leave. Instead he says he'll stop drinking, again, and again, and again . . .

allforcnm

Hi Mimi...

I can understand the boundary about his not sleeping with you when hes been drinking. I am however a big believer in communication... I think the quickest way to end a relationship is to practice detachment, set boundaries and not work on communication with your partner as to why.. what you just said here speaks volumes.. You want to spend time with him when hes not drinking, but when hes drinking his behavior and actions change, your left feeling not like a loved wife, but like a stranger only there to meet his primal needs. Feeling like this has a negative impact on you emotionally, and I would think over time it also puts a wedge between you and could build resentment. So I think in this case your boundary is good.. but its also important to explain the why.. and that you would love for him to come to bed sober. (if that's the case). It will hopefully remove resentments he might have while letting him know you still want to be with him.. sober.

I learned to do boundaries through my therapist, and by using a program/method called CRAFT - Community Reinforcement and Family Training. It can be combined with other programs by the way.. But with this we focus on staying "engaged" with our loved one, but will "disengage" when there has been drinking or other unacceptable behaviors. Our relationships often have a lot of influence on our loved ones.. we cant control them, but we can influence. Using both positive reinforcements, and negative reinforcements has been proven to help people realize the need for change most efficiently.

In the case of driving him to work.. in one phrase you say its not an inconvenience for you.. is it any form of a positive interaction for the both of you.. talking during sober time? Its not your fault he lost his license and sounds like he can get it reinstated, spend family money buy a car, pay for insurance.. but I would look also at your motives. If it wasn't for the drinking would you drive him to work ? To me detaching doesn't mean separating yourself from the individual unless you are perhaps emotionally on your way out the door of the marriage... I feel it should be used more to separate yourself from negative behaviors.

I would also suggest this book, How Science and kindness Help People Change.. by Jeffrey Foote.. This book has been very helpful to me.

p.s. Your daughter sounds adorable.. my son is 3.. kids are such a joy at these ages.

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