Marcinor

I felt it coming. I knew he would make contact with me. It was just an email so why am I all bunched up? I went for a run hoping that I would sort through all this and feel better. I don't know how I feel. I'm happy that he misses me, should I care? I'm sad that he hasn't sought out any help yet? Part of me still wants a fairytale ending with him. The other part wants to run in the other direction. I know nothing will change until he gets help so why do I want to communicate with him? At least I told him I wasn't ready to see him yet but I do miss the person he is when he isn't drinking or using porn as an escape. And part of me still resents the him for the hell he has continued to drag me through. I know it's my choice, I just want to make better choices.

It's so sad that it has to be this way.

Ann

Marconor

Please know that I say this with love...Nobody can drag you through hell without your permission. Wishing he was working on his recovery won't make it happen. If only it would, then none of us would be here.

So you have to decide what's healthy for you. If communicating with him causes you pain, maybe you should take a break from it for a bit. I know it is hard but try filling the empty void that he left with good things for you. Go to meetings, take up a hobby, join a club, sign up for an interest course, anything that will take your mind off what he is doing.

Nothing changes in our lives until WE change. And we begin with baby steps and go from there. Take a baby step and just keep moving.

Hugs
Ann

shutterbug

This is my first time to the forum and I am almost in the exact same position you are. Some things happened to forced my alcoholic out of town and out of my life, so I thought. (- which I was thankful for because he has NEVER been faithful to me and even left with his x-girlfriend in tow). I thought for sure he would not call...at least not for several months... or years. So at his usually calling time (between 2 a.m. and 4 a.m.) I did not get anxious or think anything about him calling or not calling - I just KNEW he wasn't going to and therefore I was beginning to let go and find so much peace in my life and thoughts.

Then out of the blue just 8 days later he calls. He was sweet at first (which I knew what he was wanting from me), but then became very verbally abusive.

I too was somewhat "glad" he called because it meant he was, at the very least, thinking of me. But reality is that he was only calling because he needed something from me and when I refused he became angry. He does not care about anything except what he needs at the moment and if I continue to remind myself of this then it is much harder for him to manipulate me. (In addition to being addicted to sex and alcohol, he also is a clinically diagnosed sociopath - he is encapable of love. Which really, I think, may be the best way to look at some alcoholics because even if they are capable of loving, they may not be able to love us like we think they should because of their disease).

I could write a book on the subject and probably not do anyone any good. I just wanted to let you know you are not alone. Secretly, I hope my alcoholic calls again tonight — mainly because the more I am able to tell him NO, the stronger I become. If he doesn't call and I don't have to tell him no, then I may feel like I'm stronger, but I won't really know for sure.

It's a constant battle inside me though. Do I let him in or keep him out? Sounds like a stupid question - I know. And well, when I'm thinking rationally I know I don't deserve the destruction he brings into my life. Holding onto that rationality 24/7 is another story. So I have decided at this point that in order to love myself I must love him from a distance and not let him destroy me. Then IF he ever gets his life together by the grace of God and himself, then I will still be me (and not the shell of a person I was headed for). AND, if he NEVER gets his life on track, I have not hurt him or myself, AND I have (by working the Al-Anon program) prepared myself to be a good partner to the "right" one who comes along (which I will then be able to recognize, instead of being blinded to the good ones and only seeing the bad boys).

God Bless,
Jenna

Magichappens

Marci,
I know you are trying very hard to take care of you. It's hard to sort all these things out. Don't get too frustrated or hard on yourself. As long as you are trying, the answers will come. Maybe not in the time we would like, but they will. You are making progress. Sometimes we just have to sit and wait until we get some clarity. I am proud of you. I know how hard you are struggling right now, and you are still here. Try not to let his struggles and his disease get you down.Be gentle with yourself in this time. Hugs, Magic
PS, Welcome to SR Shutterbug. Hope you stick around. This place is such a support. M

Teggie

(((Marci)))) Hang in there gf, I know how hard it is when your brain wants to turn right and your heart says left. I really know now what it's like to both love and hate someone at the same time. You still remember and love the good things about him. Theres nothing wrong with that. It's human nature. But you have a pretty good grip on whats bad about him too. I know you will make the best decision you can for you, I have faith in you. Just take it very slow hun, don't talk to him if you don't feel ready to. It's very easy to get swept away by emoitions, if you feel in danger of losing your self control, then back off, take time and think on it. If you make a mistake, realize it, correct it, don't run yourself down about it and go on. Rome wasn't built in a day, if he's serious about working things out then he'll know that and be ready to spend all the time thats needed. He's got some serious demons to deal with. I hope he's man enough to do it. I just want you to be ok. PM me anytime, post here, I'll be here. We are all on your side sweety good or bad. Hugs and much sisterly love, Teggie

Marcinor

Ann: I knew I would get in trouble for that statment. It's difficult to admit that it's my fault. I allowed everything to happen to me all the while telling him to stop making me crazy. My head knows that his life has is not easy either and while it sure looks like fun it's really his own private torture chamber. I guess I should be thankful that the only thing I'm tortured about is making the decision to walk beside him or choose another path.

Jenna: I have asked myself hundreds of time in the course of our relationship why? why do I even hold an ounce of hope that things will be different? I'm realizing it's my fantasy, he gets better... we are happy. I have to let that fantasy go and I think that has been the hardest thing to let go of because I was clinging so tightly to that thought for so long.

I think you jumped into my head when you said this "Then IF he ever gets his life together by the grace of God and himself, then I will still be me (and not the shell of a person I was headed for). " Thank you for reminding me that I like the me I am today so much better than the reminents of me that existed before I started to work on myself.

Magic: What can I say, but you are a blessing to everyone here. Thank you so much. When you said you were proud of me it made me start to cry. I am trying so hard to get it right this time, for myself, for my children, for my family, for my friends and so hopefully I can have more good days than bad ones and learn to not fear the bad ones so much.

Teggie: You are so sweet. I know you understand because our lives are so parallel, even to the point of arriving here about the same time. Thank you so much for being here for me when I need it the most! Everything you said makes sense.

Hugs,

M

shutterbug

Marci,

I know all too well about holding onto a fantasy future. For awhile I thought about boycotting children's books and movies because I was blaming them for growing up thinking that everything has a happy ending. You know the..., "And they all lived happily ever after. The End." :-)

I thought that if I couldn't find the happy ending, then I must not be trying hard enough! I know now that my thinking was/is distorted and am no longer blaming the fairytales I grew up watching for my current disfunctions.

I'm the daughter of an alcoholic (who is still in denial, even though I realized he was an A when I was 15 or 16... I am now 28). And for the first time in my life, I believe I HAVE found my "Happily Ever After" in the peace I have found and continue to find in Al-anon and people like you.

What I'm wondering is this...Is this fantasy way of thinking something we all (or most, rather) do?

I've always created such beautiful visions of how things are "suppose" to be and I guess I'm kinda wondering WHY it is that I and so many others do this? Is it because as a child I learned how to create my own reality, a better one, to think about instead of my true reality in which I felt lost, confused, alone and sad? Okay, maybe I've answered my own question here. hum?

Sorry, I'm so long winded. Please write me anytime. It sounds like you and I may both be going through similar situations in our lives right now and I would enjoy staying in touch with you.

God bless,
Jenna

mountaingirl

Omygosh:
Jenna said, I thought that if I couldn't find the happy ending, then I must not be trying hard enough!

That is so true, it hurts.

Can I add that you who are not married to your alcoholics should cut and run. Fast. Is that harsh? Well, if I knew at 28 what I know now at 40, lets just say I would have made some different choices.

Marcinor

Hey Jenna:

Thanks so much. I'm still struggling but I'm taking one day at a time, focusing on myself and NOT my fantasy world. Trying to feel the sun on my face and the wind in my hair.

Unfortunately for me it was much too late to cut and run as Mtngirl says otherwise I wouldn't be here to begin with. I've heard that statement a few times at my COSA meeting too. I believe now that there is a reason for all this and that I have to work my way through it no matter how tough it feels some days. I'm not trying to be a martyr, I just know that even before my addict entered my life I was looking for someone to fill my void, he was just a perfect fit. Now, I want to fill that void up with a healthy me.

As for the fastasy.. I would guess it's pretty common. But, I really wonder if it's as common with men?

hugs!

A tired Mom and student!

Rose56

Thanks all for this post. The happy ending thing, hits right close to home. So does the fantasy dreaming. You know folks this work that we are doing is the hardest work there is I think. To sort through all this stuff, acceptance, and then moving forward in a more positive direction. Wow. So many people live their lives never coming to terms with themselves really. So I guess we have our alcoholics to thank for all this "fun".

mountaingirl

Marci said: I was looking for someone to fill my void, he was just a perfect fit. Now, I want to fill that void up with a healthy me.

applause, applause!

On the up-side, I think the best thing about growing older is being able to see things for what they are. Ditch the rose colored glasses! Infact, goodness is so much better in my life now that I don't pre-decide what it must look like!

shutterbug

Marcinor you said,"I'm still struggling but I'm taking one day at a time, focusing on myself and NOT my fantasy world. Trying to feel the sun on my face and the wind in my hair."

That is how I feel too. I try to take more notice in the beauty that is all around me because it makes me feel like everything will be okay. And I'm glad you're here because...even if the A isn't in our lives, we still need to learn new HEALTHY behaviors and thinking to keep ourselves from becoming entangled with another A later who might be worse than the last. (Which happens to be my story)

And even if I never saw another A, then there are still ways that I let non-A's step all over me — Mainly, I'm )one who does all the squashing to myself.

Mountaingirl, I think if it was easy to cut and run then... Yes none of us would be here. We are here because we don't know know how to do that. We hang on for whatever reasons. I have several hooks that keep me hanging onto a bad relationship. Like: I think they will change or I can change them. Or (okay this is going to sound stupid, but) I've even convinced myself that God may be working through me to help them get back on the right path. You know, leading by example and all that. I would tell myself that I didn't mind suffering for a while if it might help that person to have a better future. Which I didn't realize until exactly this moment....that God would NOT make me suffer as a way of helping someone else! That shows just how distorted my thinking has been. (((WOW))) That was a really eye opener!

Actually, what I DO know and have for a while is that God was working on ME through this last A to grace my life! I've always wondered why I've been so negative toward myself and have constantly tried to FIX myself, but I have never made much progress. If it hadn't been for him, I wouldn't have found Al-anon and now wouldn't know that there's a real possibility for me to have the beautiful, happy future that I've fantasized about (instead of just pretending it was possible or...telling myself that it doesn't exist.- I would often flip back and forth depending on the situation). I was actually starting to convince myself that I was CRAZY and maybe I should be hospitalized or something because how could I NOT be crazy to let this man destroy my life if I wasn't crazy. I mean I was actually starting to not even care much when he cheated on me because he was being honest about it and I knew I couldn't do anything about it.

So Rose...I really DO have an A to thank and I am very thankful for the direction I've found now because of God working through him. God really does work in mysterious ways. And although that A is not in my life right now, I still love him (but I'm not "in" love with him) and I never know when he will call. I don't know what God has in store for that part of my life, but I'm learning to trust in what he has chosen for me.

Marcinor, I applaud you for going to school, caring for your child or children and for dealing with all of this. What a tough schedule you must have. I have wanted children for a long time now and it sometimes brings me to tears because I don't have a man in my life worthy of bringing a child into this world. But in a way, I'm thankful because I know the unhealthy me will only raise unhealthy children and I want nothing more than help my children (my future children that is) to grow up as happy and healthy as humanly possible. So for me and for them, I have to get better and I am. So hang in there!!!! Every step you take toward a healthy you is a huge step towards making sure you don't pass on to them the same unconscience thinking and behaviors that put you in your current relationship struggles.

Stay strong. I continually have to tell myself, "Let Go and Let God." And it's amazing how such a simple phrase brings such peace to me.

God Bless
Jenna

P.S. I am wondering what the COSA meeting is that you mentioned?



——————⠀”——
Take what you like and leave the rest.

shutterbug

Oh my gosh that was a long post. Sorry guys. I'm a writer by trade and sometimes don't know when to stop if it's something I'm passionate about.

(But I'm a horrible speller)

:-)

mountaingirl

Hi Jenna,
Write On!
Loved that post, and finding out more about your situation. I apologize for the CUT and RUN comment, girls - it was pretty glib, and I didn't mean to be silly like that.
Jenna, I can really relate to what you said about the purpose of being with certain kinds of people. The Maybe I'm Supposed To Help Him - thing. It all works both ways doesn't it? Everything we've lived through (my hubby and I) has made us who we are now. Still together and very wise for all the learning, that's for sure.

Hugs to all of you, you are a cool bunch, I'm glad I found you.

shutterbug

Well, my A called last night. He was drinking when he called - as usual of course, but he wasn't SMASHED when he first called (but he was smashed 2 and 1/2 hours later when we hung up). I hate talking to him when he is smashed. For some reason he becomes REALLY hard of hearing and I have to either repeat myself 10 times or scream into the phone. It drives me batty!!!

And he's the kind of alcoholic that has the blackouts where he doesn't remember anything so it's weird talking to a person who sounds like they are completely aware of things, but knowing that no matter what they say or you say — HE ISN'T GOING TO REMEMBER ANY OF IT ANYWAY. URG.

It was an okay conversation. I am trying to apply my new way of thinking to our conversations and it's helping. He tried his usual hook with me last night and this time I knew better. I knew why he was trying to pull at my heart strings this time — it's still hard to keep my heart at bay initially, but then I realize and I think it's keeping me sane and on God's path.

Anyway, I'm so glad I found you guys too!

God Bless,
Jenna

Marcinor

I feel so different lately. When we say strength, hope and experience it's so amazing how powerful those three things have become to me.

I do feel stronger and more in control of myself, my feelings and my actions. Most of the time I don't feel that twitch I used to have to fix it now, or bail.

It's so hard to react/act differently. To take off those rose-colored glasses and see things how they really are and not how we'd like them to be, but with you all here to remind me how much I like taking the time to readjust my attitude more than I enjoyed going crazy I feel like I can do this... when I may have felt completely alone before.

Thanks again Girls!

Big Hugs,

Marci

Bellesarius

Marcinor,

[caveat emptor, I hope I'm not too preachy or intrusive, I'm just speaking from my experience and what has worked in my life, or in other's]

I feel for you. I have had a similar relationship with my soon to be ex,alcoholic wife (she bailed, left me with the kids (thank you God!) and is divorcing me). She continued to communicate on a regular basis and it was incredibly difficult and painful for me. What I had to do was decide what was best for me and the kids and decide what I wanted to do. Nobody can make those decisions for you, and my decision actually went counter to most peoples advice. After much soul searching, and finally reaching a space of real detachment with love, I decided to continue allowing her to communicate with me (for now). My ex is a very troubled person with serious mental illness, who happens to blame me for our marriage breaking down. Someday she'll probably recognize that it takes two tango and she danced right along with me. I have been very loving, forgiving (trust me, lost of bad behavior on her part) and open to reconciliation, all to no avail. She has made her choice and have to accept it. I don't like it, I don't want it, but I respect her right to make it.

Get serious about your program.. i'm assuming your in Al-Anon, if not, run, don't walk, to the nearest meeting.. I would especially look for a really good closed womans meeting, you'll probably find many others in your situation. Always remember, that your program is your program, and you can make mistakes, in fact expect to make lots.. these are great learning opportunities! I have made plenty!

A few books may help...

Dobson's "Love Must Be Tough" could help, it's pretty good. it should help you with letting go... letting go isn't saying goodbye, it's giving the other person the space to make a free choice, the choice may be to leave though, (my ex's choice) but it might not be. Regardless, respect his choice and if it's time to move on, move on. Moving on, however, doesn't necessarily mean goodbye for ever, it's about letting go, detachment is healthy. You've probably become used to a co-dependent, enmessed way of relating that needs to be broken, so letting go will be very tough....was for me!

If your alcholic is still using, he is probably completely delusional and incapable of making a real choice. Once he does get sober.. it may take 1-2 years for him to break through the denial and fog of the disease to see things clearly. He may choose to come back then, or not. Don't future trip, focus on today, today is all you have, tomorrow will take care of itself.

You may suffer from codepedency, most al-anons do (I'm addled with it!) I would recommend Melody Beattie's "Beyond Codepdency" and "The Co-Dependents Guide to the Twelve Steps"

Get yourself a copy of "Courage to Change" and "How Al-Anon Works", both excellent al-anon books. If you get serious about the program, you may find "Paths to Recovery" helpful too. You should also get a copy of the Big Book "Alcholics Anonymous" which should provide some perspective on the disease.

By far the best thing you can, in addition to meetings and finding a sponsor, is to develop spritually in whatever tradition you are most comfortable with. This can help immensely because you must let go and let God/HP as they say.

I hope some of this helps.. things will work out for you.. how they are supposed to work out for you. You're higher power has a plan for you.. it will unfold over time, but don't expect to be too patient.. patience (I have been told.. I want changes NOW!) takes a great deal of acceptance and spiritual maturity.. I have a long way to go.. I hope you don't have as far to go as I do!

How about some trusty AA/Al-Anon axioms I have found helpful while I'm at it

Be the best you, you can be today.. it's good enough.

Be very gentle with yourself, this stuff takes a very long time, progress not perfection is a hallmark of the program

Let go and let God

You can't think your way into a new way of living, you have to live your way into a new way of thinking.

As you progress, you will find even you have choices even in seemingly hopeless situations.

And my favorite.. no problem lasts forever!

God Bless and hang in there, I hope I've been helpful in passing on some of what I have learned in my recovery. There is great hope!!! But, if not... another axiom should, I hope, fit, "take what you want and leave the rest!"

Bambi

Wow what a great post!!! I wish you were around when I was so weak!!

Marcinor

Thank you everyone!

The support you all give me helps me feel sane.

Last week I communicated with him via email a couple of times, then on Friday I decided that I was ready to see him. Talking to him again brings up new questions I didn't expect. What should my boundaries be? Am I steering clear of that fantasy world I love so much? Should I be sharing with him about the work I've been doing in alanon and COSA when he asks?

I'm trying very hard to say what I mean and mean what I say. Whenever I feel those little urges to call or email, I'm telling myself later... when it's not an urge anymore.

I don't think I have an expectation of him, but then when I think about him running off again I can feel the disappointment inside me so I don't think that I'm being honest with myself on that one. I was told last night by one of the brilliant ladies in my group that it's ok to change my mind. ... wow! that one blew my mind. I knew then that my baby steps haven't taken me far from where I started.

I'm doing what Teggie said (thank you) and taking it S L O W and I'm trying not to run myself down about any of this it's just hard to know what is right when all those old thoughts that seemed so right before are still hanging around in my head.

Marci

Magichappens

((Marci))
It's a journey, not a destination. By seeking recovery, we have all come a long way. Everyone stumbles when they are learning. Everything that happens is either a blessing or a lesson. If I keep that perspective, I don't have to worry about where I am at in recovery. I am where I am supposed to be. There is no right or wrong, just blessings and lessons. Boundaries are created by learning who we are and being true to ourself. We don't create boundaries, we find them within ourself. That is what the steps are designed to teach us. Give it time. You are doing great. Hugs, Magic