I took an immature stab at him today
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: hot as heck, az
Posts: 142
I agree with another response that the delivery was a little "jabby" but in time you'll get the hang of saying what you mean, meaning what you say, but not saying it mean. It doesn't go anywhere with them and only reinforces their victimhood.
I thought when my ex got sober she would suddenly realize all the selfish and crappy things she did when she was in her disease. Maybe she did, but for her, there was no "maybe you're right... I did treat you badly". I wanted to hear it, but so far, I have not. What I have learned is that expecting a certain response when I say something is manipulative behavior on my part. I make a "poor me" comment and you're supposed to say something to make me feel better. If you don't I'm angry. I'm trying to elicit a response and when I don't get it, I'm upset b/c I didn't get what I wanted.
You can tell him how you feel, set a boundary about what you want/don't want but don't have massive expectations that his light bulb will go on and he'll realize what a jerk he's been.
I thought when my ex got sober she would suddenly realize all the selfish and crappy things she did when she was in her disease. Maybe she did, but for her, there was no "maybe you're right... I did treat you badly". I wanted to hear it, but so far, I have not. What I have learned is that expecting a certain response when I say something is manipulative behavior on my part. I make a "poor me" comment and you're supposed to say something to make me feel better. If you don't I'm angry. I'm trying to elicit a response and when I don't get it, I'm upset b/c I didn't get what I wanted.
You can tell him how you feel, set a boundary about what you want/don't want but don't have massive expectations that his light bulb will go on and he'll realize what a jerk he's been.
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 667
AMEN TO THIS RESPONSE!
And this part
"I thought when my ex got sober she would suddenly realize all the selfish and crappy things she did when she was in her disease. Maybe she did, but for her, there was no "maybe you're right... I did treat you badly". I wanted to hear it, but so far, I have not."
Should be a must read for both the AC and anyone they have personally destroyed relationships with.
And this part
"I thought when my ex got sober she would suddenly realize all the selfish and crappy things she did when she was in her disease. Maybe she did, but for her, there was no "maybe you're right... I did treat you badly". I wanted to hear it, but so far, I have not."
Should be a must read for both the AC and anyone they have personally destroyed relationships with.
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: hot as heck, az
Posts: 142
I want to clarify though, I do not judge my ex for not having given amends. I CAN'T because I've been in Al Anon for 3+ years and have not yet gotten to my 8th/9th steps. I'm a slow learner and these steps are HARD (for me at least b/c I'm a stubborn mule).
So I do not pass judgement on her that she "should've given her amends by now". I owe her amends and I haven't gotten there... and even if I had, it is not my place to evaluate anyone else's program but my own.
I did have to understand that although I want her to be different, she is not. She is who she is right now. Unfortunately, who she is now is not a person who can give me the relationship that I want/need.
So I do not pass judgement on her that she "should've given her amends by now". I owe her amends and I haven't gotten there... and even if I had, it is not my place to evaluate anyone else's program but my own.
I did have to understand that although I want her to be different, she is not. She is who she is right now. Unfortunately, who she is now is not a person who can give me the relationship that I want/need.
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Yes, I certainly see how the delivery could have been a lot better. But all the rules that he has made for me while he is in treatment dictate that I am to have basically no friends at all.
So yes, it was probably not the BEST thing to do.......and I am not expecting him to think about how selfish he is right NOW....I want him to focus on him being able to abstain from alcohol.
The flip side, because their always is one, is that I need him to know that I cannot live under those pretenses any longer. It shouldn't probably have come out that way. But it did none the less. So I can see it as victory for me. (normally I would be furious and hurt inside because he has made these rules about friends and all that stuff because he is scared of me cheating or whatever---but outwardly supported his friendships that he is making in treatment). But I can also see it as a learning experience.....how I could do better next time.
Thanks so much!
So yes, it was probably not the BEST thing to do.......and I am not expecting him to think about how selfish he is right NOW....I want him to focus on him being able to abstain from alcohol.
The flip side, because their always is one, is that I need him to know that I cannot live under those pretenses any longer. It shouldn't probably have come out that way. But it did none the less. So I can see it as victory for me. (normally I would be furious and hurt inside because he has made these rules about friends and all that stuff because he is scared of me cheating or whatever---but outwardly supported his friendships that he is making in treatment). But I can also see it as a learning experience.....how I could do better next time.
Thanks so much!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: hot as heck, az
Posts: 142
freetosmile: we all start somewhere. you're getting there. you've hit the nail when you said you dn't want to live under his "rules" anymore. That is a boundary - not telling him he can't have his "rules" but that you're not going to live under them.
The nice thing about Al Anon is you always get another chance to do things differently. Progress not perfection
The nice thing about Al Anon is you always get another chance to do things differently. Progress not perfection
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,417
Originally Posted by freetosmile 
Yes, I certainly see how the delivery could have been a lot better. But all the rules that he has made for me while he is in treatment dictate that I am to have basically no friends at all.
So yes, it was probably not the BEST thing to do.......and I am not expecting him to think about how selfish he is right NOW....I want him to focus on him being able to abstain from alcohol.
The flip side, because their always is one, is that I need him to know that I cannot live under those pretenses any longer. It shouldn't probably have come out that way. But it did none the less. So I can see it as victory for me. (normally I would be furious and hurt inside because he has made these rules about friends and all that stuff because he is scared of me cheating or whatever---but outwardly supported his friendships that he is making in treatment). But I can also see it as a learning experience.....how I could do better next time.
Thanks so much!
So yes, it was probably not the BEST thing to do.......and I am not expecting him to think about how selfish he is right NOW....I want him to focus on him being able to abstain from alcohol.
The flip side, because their always is one, is that I need him to know that I cannot live under those pretenses any longer. It shouldn't probably have come out that way. But it did none the less. So I can see it as victory for me. (normally I would be furious and hurt inside because he has made these rules about friends and all that stuff because he is scared of me cheating or whatever---but outwardly supported his friendships that he is making in treatment). But I can also see it as a learning experience.....how I could do better next time.
Thanks so much!
Honestly, I really think you should consider having him go into a sober living situation for awhile when he finishes treatment
if you have any doubt about him trying to put you back under his thumb again.
Early sobriety is such a tough time under the best of circumstances,
and it sounds like he has more than quitting drinking to learn to deal with.
I agree with you and the letter you wrote to him that the "control" issues and insecurity / abuse issues
he has are very deep and not about the alcohol per say--though his drinking obviously made it surface more.
Have you been thinking about your "back up plan(s)" in case he is not ready to accept that
you have the right to be free and in contact with other people of your choosing?
This could be anything from your boundary limits to having a place to go if he gets angry, violent, or relapses.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
freetosmile.....I do think that Hawkeye has made some very good points. I know that you have a lot on your plate, right now. But, I hope that y ou will find some time to ponder over these.
It will be so much easier on yo if you have some back-up plans in the back of y our mind.
I think that sober-living is something worth considering---especially, if he can't treat you with civility when he returns. If you get to talk to his case worker when the discharge planning is done--perhaps you could share these concern with that person.
After all, these are common concerns that all families have.
dandylion
It will be so much easier on yo if you have some back-up plans in the back of y our mind.
I think that sober-living is something worth considering---especially, if he can't treat you with civility when he returns. If you get to talk to his case worker when the discharge planning is done--perhaps you could share these concern with that person.
After all, these are common concerns that all families have.
dandylion
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
i think you might want to consider how RELIEVED you were that he was going and would be away...and that it wasn't just the booze...this crawling up your buttisimo 24/7, the need to control WHO you speak to, including your sister, you were feeling upset that you went there in a SNOWSTORM, because he told youNOT to.
This is not normal. Most husbands would be concerned that their wife has friends and support, help with the house and the kids if they are away for an extended time. I am guessing that if he is not working, he is not getting paid? Your finances were concerning you ths past month. HE should be concerned about paying the bills, keeping the heat on and the car filled with gas and providing for the family, not who you contact.
He sounds like he is still incredibly selfish, yapping about his ceremony and new roommate, while the entire reality of life and running the household/5 kids rests on you alone. And he has the AUDACITY to pick at who you speak to, having a friend visit and then ACCUSE you? thisd is incredibly disrespectful to you.
I hope you lay down YOUR rules/boundaries and expectations clearly for him, because nothing changes if nothing changes after he returns from Camp Detox.
How are you coping and what are you most worried about?
This is not normal. Most husbands would be concerned that their wife has friends and support, help with the house and the kids if they are away for an extended time. I am guessing that if he is not working, he is not getting paid? Your finances were concerning you ths past month. HE should be concerned about paying the bills, keeping the heat on and the car filled with gas and providing for the family, not who you contact.
He sounds like he is still incredibly selfish, yapping about his ceremony and new roommate, while the entire reality of life and running the household/5 kids rests on you alone. And he has the AUDACITY to pick at who you speak to, having a friend visit and then ACCUSE you? thisd is incredibly disrespectful to you.
I hope you lay down YOUR rules/boundaries and expectations clearly for him, because nothing changes if nothing changes after he returns from Camp Detox.
How are you coping and what are you most worried about?
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Maybe it is not directly alcohol related.....but......he is in the best possible place to deal with a hard statement/discussion and the feelings it might bring up for him. And he gets to deal with them without you there to backtrack, cushion etc.
I say bravo!
I found when I first found my voice some of the "harshness" was my swinging a little to hard in the opposite direction of where I was from. Part of it though was if someone HAD a reaction to what I said I figured I had said it wrong, too strong etc.
I am starting to learn that what someone else does with it is not a reflection on what I said.
I say bravo!
I found when I first found my voice some of the "harshness" was my swinging a little to hard in the opposite direction of where I was from. Part of it though was if someone HAD a reaction to what I said I figured I had said it wrong, too strong etc.
I am starting to learn that what someone else does with it is not a reflection on what I said.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Right here, right now!
Posts: 3,424
Maybe it is not directly alcohol related.....but......he is in the best possible place to deal with a hard statement/discussion and the feelings it might bring up for him. And he gets to deal with them without you there to backtrack, cushion etc.
I say bravo!
I found when I first found my voice some of the "harshness" was my swinging a little to hard in the opposite direction of where I was from. Part of it though was if someone HAD a reaction to what I said I figured I had said it wrong, too strong etc.
I am starting to learn that what someone else does with it is not a reflection on what I said.
I say bravo!
I found when I first found my voice some of the "harshness" was my swinging a little to hard in the opposite direction of where I was from. Part of it though was if someone HAD a reaction to what I said I figured I had said it wrong, too strong etc.
I am starting to learn that what someone else does with it is not a reflection on what I said.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Right here, right now!
Posts: 3,424
Maybe it is not directly alcohol related.....but......he is in the best possible place to deal with a hard statement/discussion and the feelings it might bring up for him. And he gets to deal with them without you there to backtrack, cushion etc.
I say bravo!
I found when I first found my voice some of the "harshness" was my swinging a little to hard in the opposite direction of where I was from. Part of it though was if someone HAD a reaction to what I said I figured I had said it wrong, too strong etc.
I am starting to learn that what someone else does with it is not a reflection on what I said.
I say bravo!
I found when I first found my voice some of the "harshness" was my swinging a little to hard in the opposite direction of where I was from. Part of it though was if someone HAD a reaction to what I said I figured I had said it wrong, too strong etc.
I am starting to learn that what someone else does with it is not a reflection on what I said.
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I think what worries me the most is him coming home and going right back into the accusatory mode. Because I know early recovery is going to be a bi*tch for him.So I'm nervous that all his stress is going to directly pointed over to me.
I spoke with my therapist today about it. I am going to make some real firm boundaries and stick with them.
Back up plan is that I can pack up, go to grandmas if I need and then ask him to go. I need to see real progress with the verbal and emotional abuse and the controlling behavior. I just can't live like this anymore.
I spoke with my therapist today about it. I am going to make some real firm boundaries and stick with them.
Back up plan is that I can pack up, go to grandmas if I need and then ask him to go. I need to see real progress with the verbal and emotional abuse and the controlling behavior. I just can't live like this anymore.
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One thing I've had experience with - and I am NOT saying this is what's going on, but leave all options open at this point - is that the things they tend to make the loudest noises about are often things they are doing themselves. The blaming and accusations are to cover up their own misdeeds. Again, I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but more often than not this has been the case, in my own experience. It certainly wouldn't be anything new or uncharacteristic of someone with his personality.
Baby Steps
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Freetosmile, lol I'm so glad you posted this, I don't feel so bad at my own immature stab at ex! I told him last week in my text to him, I'm glad your living the life you want with no responsibilities while I deal with them all!
I like you felt quite guilty and immature at my go at him!!
I like you felt quite guilty and immature at my go at him!!
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Originally Posted by Butterfly
Freetosmile, lol I'm so glad you posted this, I don't feel so bad at my own immature stab at ex! I told him last week in my text to him, I'm glad your living the life you want with no responsibilities while I deal with them all!
I like you felt quite guilty and immature at my go at him!!
I like you felt quite guilty and immature at my go at him!!
I don't intend to make that a habit, but it is nice to finally see the light a little....like hey, I have the right to say this isn't ok with me without fear of being attacked.
Good job butterfly. I know things are hard for you right now. Hugs!!
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Join Date: Nov 2014
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Originally Posted by NWGRITS
One thing I've had experience with - and I am NOT saying this is what's going on, but leave all options open at this point - is that the things they tend to make the loudest noises about are often things they are doing themselves. The blaming and accusations are to cover up their own misdeeds. Again, I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but more often than not this has been the case, in my own experience. It certainly wouldn't be anything new or uncharacteristic of someone with his personality.
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