Triangulation
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Triangulation
I visited my therapist today and I told her about the chistimas money cards AH gave to the boys above and beyond what we had agreed upon and the first thing she called it, which I heard here at SR first, was triangulation. I'm trying to wrap my brain around this concept and have come to realize this is exactly what my mother did when I was growing up with us kids -- use us as tools against my dad or as agitation. We thought she was the angel in the family. We were so wrong. Now I finally have a name to put on that. But anyway, I digress...
HOW in the world do you deal with teen boys when the father uses them this way? My son has had the flu for the past few days and still has a slight fever. I didn't allow him to play in the team scrimmage today because of that. While I was at the therapist he calls his dad to ask his permission to go to the gym with his brothers to shoot around. Again, he is still showing fever and he knows what my answer will be -- the same as this morning. I came home just as my AH called to let me know that our son had asked him this and he gave his consent -- what???? I reversed it, now I'm the bad guy, but crud, the kid has the flu! He feels a little better around this time of day but come evening the fever spikes and he feels like junk.
So really, how do you parent when this is going on in your home?
HOW in the world do you deal with teen boys when the father uses them this way? My son has had the flu for the past few days and still has a slight fever. I didn't allow him to play in the team scrimmage today because of that. While I was at the therapist he calls his dad to ask his permission to go to the gym with his brothers to shoot around. Again, he is still showing fever and he knows what my answer will be -- the same as this morning. I came home just as my AH called to let me know that our son had asked him this and he gave his consent -- what???? I reversed it, now I'm the bad guy, but crud, the kid has the flu! He feels a little better around this time of day but come evening the fever spikes and he feels like junk.
So really, how do you parent when this is going on in your home?
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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Nothing suprises me, of course he will be the good guy and them them do what they want. You will always be there for them, so remember that. You are not put on this earth to be their friends.
A friend told me once that a parents job is to "get their child out of high School alive"
Stick to your guns and try not to let him get to you. Sorry!!
A friend told me once that a parents job is to "get their child out of high School alive"
Stick to your guns and try not to let him get to you. Sorry!!
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This happens in non-alcoholic households, too. One parent gets known as the "softie" and the other one is the "hardass". Kids plan their requests accordingly.
Ideally, parents present a united front, most of the time, but kids can be very clever in getting their way by slightly misrepresenting what one parent said first.
To be honest, unless we are talking about matters seriously affecting their well-being (and playing when he's getting over the flu isn't quite in that category), it's fairly harmless.
Ideally, parents present a united front, most of the time, but kids can be very clever in getting their way by slightly misrepresenting what one parent said first.
To be honest, unless we are talking about matters seriously affecting their well-being (and playing when he's getting over the flu isn't quite in that category), it's fairly harmless.
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I would agree it's fairly harmless if it wasn't a chronic issue. And yes, it happened in my home growing up and my parents were not addicts of any kind. But, unfortunately, this happens often on big and small issues, which is why I was asking how to parent this. Maybe the answer is simply do your best.
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This is something that happened a lot in my house, even though my kids were much younger. Getting ready for bed? Dad will put a movie in. Time to do homework? Dad will either tell them they didn't have to or get them to do something else. Say no to ice cream because they didn't eat, dad will give them a candy bar. Remove plate from the table for bad behavior, dad would give it back to them. On and on.
I really have no idea how to handle it. I did not handle it well. I became super controlling and inflexible and would get upset if they didn't brush their teeth on time or something crazy like that because everything was out of my control. I was going off the deep end and my responses were not in-line to the situation. I was turning into a person I could not stand and I'm quite sure if someone would have asked my kids - I was the crazy and mean person in the house causing all the problems, not my ah. He didn't do anything but sit in the basement and drink. I was always so super stressed trying to keep all the balls in the air and my ah constantly added more balls or tripped me up. I tried to keep all my crazy under a lid and so I became incredibly flat. My kids had no idea if I was happy or sad or angry (until I got upset about something small) or what. There was no joy
It was a horrible horrible dark time and I left (or made him leave) with 80% of me thinking I was throwing my kids under the bus to do so but I felt I must or I'd slip off the abyss and be gone forever. I did know, somewhere inside myself, that my husband was an alcoholic and things would not ever get better and I had signs and clues that I did not want my kids to follow that path. I knew that I had to be a good parent - one they could count on and be what they deserved and I had to admit that I was no longer that. I was consumed and it was my own fault. I could fix it but I needed a lot of help from SR and counseling to really see things clearly.
ETA: I know that doesn't really answer your question. I'm sorry. I guess I just wanted to let you know that I understand the dynamic you are talking about. I don't know how to let it go. I don't how to detach mentally from things that have such a real world negative impact on me personally. Not even today, after all this time and all this recovery. I feel like I do a great job of detaching now - but I'm no longer married. His actions do not have a real world impact on my outcomes.
I really have no idea how to handle it. I did not handle it well. I became super controlling and inflexible and would get upset if they didn't brush their teeth on time or something crazy like that because everything was out of my control. I was going off the deep end and my responses were not in-line to the situation. I was turning into a person I could not stand and I'm quite sure if someone would have asked my kids - I was the crazy and mean person in the house causing all the problems, not my ah. He didn't do anything but sit in the basement and drink. I was always so super stressed trying to keep all the balls in the air and my ah constantly added more balls or tripped me up. I tried to keep all my crazy under a lid and so I became incredibly flat. My kids had no idea if I was happy or sad or angry (until I got upset about something small) or what. There was no joy
It was a horrible horrible dark time and I left (or made him leave) with 80% of me thinking I was throwing my kids under the bus to do so but I felt I must or I'd slip off the abyss and be gone forever. I did know, somewhere inside myself, that my husband was an alcoholic and things would not ever get better and I had signs and clues that I did not want my kids to follow that path. I knew that I had to be a good parent - one they could count on and be what they deserved and I had to admit that I was no longer that. I was consumed and it was my own fault. I could fix it but I needed a lot of help from SR and counseling to really see things clearly.ETA: I know that doesn't really answer your question. I'm sorry. I guess I just wanted to let you know that I understand the dynamic you are talking about. I don't know how to let it go. I don't how to detach mentally from things that have such a real world negative impact on me personally. Not even today, after all this time and all this recovery. I feel like I do a great job of detaching now - but I'm no longer married. His actions do not have a real world impact on my outcomes.
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Originally Posted by Katchie 
I would agree it's fairly harmless if it wasn't a chronic issue. And yes, it happened in my home growing up and my parents were not addicts of any kind. But, unfortunately, this happens often on big and small issues, which is why I was asking how to parent this. Maybe the answer is simply do your best.
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I just heard my children tell their counselor how their father, who is a real piece of work, and his girlfriend, who they don't know very well, gave them a talk about how they could tell them anything and never to worry about being in trouble or not being able to speak freely like they cannot do with me. What?????
My kids were expressing frustration that he says such things b/c I am so close with them and they cannot talk to him about anything. The therapist actually told me my 9 yr old just agrees with him because she is scared of him. So is my 15 year old.
At some point, you look at the big picture. Kids may know who they can manipulate, but they also know who the true parent is. Who is their rock. Who is there for them.
It's really hard, but you just do the best you can in that moment.
My kids were expressing frustration that he says such things b/c I am so close with them and they cannot talk to him about anything. The therapist actually told me my 9 yr old just agrees with him because she is scared of him. So is my 15 year old.
At some point, you look at the big picture. Kids may know who they can manipulate, but they also know who the true parent is. Who is their rock. Who is there for them.
It's really hard, but you just do the best you can in that moment.
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Well, I kept my son home so he doesn't spread the love of the flu around to unsuspecting people. His life is now ruined, of course. His drama over it reminds me of A Christmas Story when Ralphie has to suck on a bar of Lifebuoy soap, then goes to bed and dreams of how sorry his parents will be when he comes home blind one day from soap poisoning. lol
Who needs girls when you have drama king boys!
Who needs girls when you have drama king boys!
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If it makes you feel any better, my 3 year old tells me she misses dad anytime she has to do something she doesn't want to do. The response to "eat your carrots, please" is always "I miss Dad." Funny thing is though, when I was in the hospital AH told me that DD3 told him that she missed me whenever he put her on timeout. Lol!
We talk about manipulation a lot on this forum but when it's our kids doing it, I don't think they're aware at all of what they're doing. They're trying to get a specific outcome. Also, parenting is hard, whether your spouse is an alcoholic or not. I think this falls into the realm of regular people problems.
We talk about manipulation a lot on this forum but when it's our kids doing it, I don't think they're aware at all of what they're doing. They're trying to get a specific outcome. Also, parenting is hard, whether your spouse is an alcoholic or not. I think this falls into the realm of regular people problems.
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Ya parents need to be a united front. This isn't an A thing to me and actually I am not sure I would blame your husband. Did he know you denied the scrimmage? Perhaps he did. I used to call my dad at work to ask permission for things because he was distracted, wouldn't ask questions, and generally said yes to whatever I wanted whereas if he were home he might say no. We all knew that about my dad and we all did it.
If it were me I would punish your son. He knew you already said no, and he knew you would say no to going to the gym. Call him on it.
If it were me I would punish your son. He knew you already said no, and he knew you would say no to going to the gym. Call him on it.
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Katchie......LOL! this is called "splitting" and it is s common as dirt as a technique that kids will discover and work to get their way......they will all give it a try!
It especially works when both parents are not on the same page. Kids have antennae of observation that are very keen---and, are quite adept at sensing any holes or weakness in the "system" that they can exploit to their advantage, if possible. (this is normal ).
Parents just have to function as a tight and united team as much as possible.
This means good communication between the parents and establishing "procedures" that will derail the little suckers when they try to pull the wool....lol!
I remember when my daughter tried this....and did pull it off.....AT FIRST! Then my husband and I got together and established some very strict rules of procedure around asking for permission!
Another one that my kiids tried..was to ask for things or favors in front of their friends or other people (thinking I would be softer under that situation). I finally made the rule that if I was not asked these things in private..the answer was an automatic "NO"...no matter what the question was! That put a stop to that little trick.
The list goes on.....
dandylion
It especially works when both parents are not on the same page. Kids have antennae of observation that are very keen---and, are quite adept at sensing any holes or weakness in the "system" that they can exploit to their advantage, if possible. (this is normal ).
Parents just have to function as a tight and united team as much as possible.
This means good communication between the parents and establishing "procedures" that will derail the little suckers when they try to pull the wool....lol!
I remember when my daughter tried this....and did pull it off.....AT FIRST! Then my husband and I got together and established some very strict rules of procedure around asking for permission!
Another one that my kiids tried..was to ask for things or favors in front of their friends or other people (thinking I would be softer under that situation). I finally made the rule that if I was not asked these things in private..the answer was an automatic "NO"...no matter what the question was! That put a stop to that little trick.
The list goes on.....
dandylion
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Katchie......LOL! this is called "splitting" and it is s common as dirt as a technique that kids will discover and work to get their way......they will all give it a try!
It especially works when both parents are not on the same page. Kids have antennae of observation that are very keen---and, are quite adept at sensing any holes or weakness in the "system" that they can exploit to their advantage, if possible. (this is normal ).
Parents just have to function as a tight and united team as much as possible.
This means good communication between the parents and establishing "procedures" that will derail the little suckers when they try to pull the wool....lol!
I remember when my daughter tried this....and did pull it off.....AT FIRST! Then my husband and I got together and established some very strict rules of procedure around asking for permission!
Another one that my kiids tried..was to ask for things or favors in front of their friends or other people (thinking I would be softer under that situation). I finally made the rule that if I was not asked these things in private..the answer was an automatic "NO"...no matter what the question was! That put a stop to that little trick.
The list goes on.....
dandylion
It especially works when both parents are not on the same page. Kids have antennae of observation that are very keen---and, are quite adept at sensing any holes or weakness in the "system" that they can exploit to their advantage, if possible. (this is normal ).
Parents just have to function as a tight and united team as much as possible.
This means good communication between the parents and establishing "procedures" that will derail the little suckers when they try to pull the wool....lol!
I remember when my daughter tried this....and did pull it off.....AT FIRST! Then my husband and I got together and established some very strict rules of procedure around asking for permission!
Another one that my kiids tried..was to ask for things or favors in front of their friends or other people (thinking I would be softer under that situation). I finally made the rule that if I was not asked these things in private..the answer was an automatic "NO"...no matter what the question was! That put a stop to that little trick.
The list goes on.....
dandylion
Sadly, I remember a year ago talking to my sons about relationships with their someday wives and how important it will be for them to help their wives with their children. To be the spiritual leader with their wife, the disciplinarian with their wife, to just be a unit. They laughed and said they were going to be like dad and let their wife do it all. That is disgusting. I pray it was all just a joke to rib me.
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Originally Posted by redatlanta
Ya parents need to be a united front. This isn't an A thing to me and actually I am not sure I would blame your husband. Did he know you denied the scrimmage? Perhaps he did. I used to call my dad at work to ask permission for things because he was distracted, wouldn't ask questions, and generally said yes to whatever I wanted whereas if he were home he might say no. We all knew that about my dad and we all did it.
If it were me I would punish your son. He knew you already said no, and he knew you would say no to going to the gym. Call him on it.
If it were me I would punish your son. He knew you already said no, and he knew you would say no to going to the gym. Call him on it.
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Originally Posted by redatlanta
Are you saying you can't discipline your son? I agree calling AH on it isn't going to change him. But, grounding your son for doing it may curb HIM from doing it again.
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