Refiner

You really need to jump off her Merrygoround for a bit.

hopeful4

She is trailing you along babe. Just b/c she calls does not mean you have to answer.

XXX

Spalding

Yeah. She just called again and told me to come. I cant even.

How can she think that she can throw my stuff into the snow, treat me like crap and then expect me to come shovel for her? The kicker for me is that I was going to help her. I just hadnt called yet. And then she calls me and says rude things? And then says no dont bother. AND THEN says yes do come help me?

What.

hopeful4

Like I said, just b/c she calls does not mean you have to answer. This is emotional abuse my dear.

Spalding

Yup. I need to get some time away from this.

I am so stressed. It's really starting to effect me. I've been pretty good with trucking on, but it feels like everything is piling up.

Trying to deal with my mum situation. Trying to deal with OSAP and keep that going yet under the proper wraps while my mum digs and digs at it. Getting new glasses because mine just broke. I just had to buy new boots because mine just died. I HATE making pressured decisions. PLUS now I have to go to my mum and try and get the $100 I spent on them from the child support she gets. Sometimes she's fine, other times she resents it and refuses. I never know what Im going to get from her. I have insane amounts of school work with barely any energy left to do it with. I have to start applying to jobs, getting my next placement ready. BUT GUESS WHAT. That all depends on where I am living come September. Do I know where that is? No. Do I know how I am going to pay for it if I do move out? No. I've been sick twice in the past month. I'm constantly fighting with my seriously insensitive sister. I cant talk to my mom because she's unreasonable and angry. I cant talk to my dad because saying too much will cause me more problems. I have to find a new counselor because the one I have was supposed to be short term and it hasn't been. I like her. I dont want to have to switch. But I do.

I'm so angry and frustrated all the time. I dont like feeling like this. I get stuck in avoidance patterns on the computer wasting my time away making my other problems even worse. Then again it is a good thing that I'm angry and frustrated because it means I'm starting to feel again, which I haven't for such a long time.

I just wish things were simple. Things have never been simple for me. How have I ever dealt with so many things and not crumbled before?

FeelingGreat

Hi Spalding, I agree it's fine for you to shovel the walk (totally alien concept to me here in Australia BTW), I mean anyone would do that for a friend if they knew it would help. It's more the concept of her calling you, abusing you (as opposed to just asking politely), and then you rewarding that behaviour by doing what she's demanded. One to work out with the therapist I think, and come up with a systematic 'protocol' for handling situations where you wouldn't mind helping but she has to ask politely.

You're spot on about the compassion part. She seems to be escalating because you're slipping away from her influence. Honestly, she's in a bad place but the hard truth is that only she can change. She managed to get herself to a drying out facility, even if she didn't stay, so at least you know she understands what she has to do.

You might say something along the lines of 'I love you but I won't come running when you abuse me'. If she acts reasonably, consider making small concessions. I went through this teaching my toddlers to modify their behaviour; it's insane you should have to do it with your mother.

Hang in there as this might be the sort of feedback she needs to get help.

NWGRITS

No contact = No new hurts. She's full of it.

Hawkeye13

Yep

It won't improve until you do this, I'm sorry to say, given what you've been telling us.

I'll bet Grits and I nearly have a century of dealing with ACOA crap between us
so we know what we are talking about here.

Hang in Spaulding and protect yourself, because nobody has your
back in your family but you.

We get that.

Thumper

I have a close family member that is a lot like your mom. A lot.

I've read the post linked below a million times over the years and I think you might find it helpful too.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...rty-lines.html

I started out being very methodical about turning over each event/conversation to assign property lines. It did not come naturally. I had to really work at managing my property and not picking up hers. Over time it got *much* easier. That skill has been one of the most effective parts of my recovery in all areas of my life.

I'm not advocating contact or no contact. I've done both with different people in my life and think both choices are valid, helpful, and necessary.

I've also learned that there are some things I just do not talk to her about. Ever. That list gets longer and longer unfortunately but it is what it is. Sometimes I take a break and really limit contact.

Spalding

Thanks Thumper, I'll definitely take a look. Your post is super helpful. : )

Yeah the property thing is a big one. I think I really need to look at my controlling behaviours and work on it. I know it's been an issue between my mum and I. I'm glad I'm at least starting to see it. I also need to start recognizing when she might be trying to push her property onto me.

I'm feeling nervous about potentially going back for the next 3 days tomorrow. I'm going to call her and see where she is at on me coming over, and see where I am at with it too. The last few phone calls have been extremely brief, and she just seems to want to not talk at all on the phone.
It's hard that all of our interactions seem to be so negative and conflictual. I hope it changes at some point.

Maybe this week we just do dinner?

The other thing is that I'm still torn up about this OSAP thing. I know she's going to try to get me to answer. I cant let it slip in any way about the family breakdown application.
I'm even considering not going that route. I'm thinking of just finding a way to pay for my summer courses myself, but live at my dad's until June when I can get OSAP without having to apply under that appeal.

Thing is my guilt creeps up in that I have already got 2 people working on letters, which I will be picking up tomorrow and another day soon. I feel bad I might have had them do this extra work for nothing if I dont apply for family breakdown. Berdkjhgaohjh.

DoubleDragons

Wow, Spalding. I just read this thread this morning. I am sending love and positive vibes your way ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I have an alcoholic, personality disordered mother, as well and she continues to wreak havoc in my life and I am in my forties! When I was your age I got married, primarily to escape the insanity. I don't recommend this, although luckily, I do have a very good marriage. My mother and drama and no boundaries and hurtful barbs and filthy language and manipulation go hand-in-hand. She is like a spoiled two year old who will stop at nothing to get her way. Yet, like you, I have this warped sense of duty and love for her. I would love to get her out of my life, but I have not found the strength to do this yet. Please do everything you can to work on your codependency issues and to create healthy boundaries and to focus on caring for yourself. I went into therapy in my twenties but only stayed long enough for the validation that my FOO was not normal. I didn't stay long enough to work on my unhealthy ways of handling them and life, which was basically escapism, and/or catering to them, with a lot of resentment on my part. I ended up with stomach ulcers, frequent anxiety attacks, a lot of disassociation and an alcohol problem of my own. Don't do this to yourself. Accepting abuse is a form of self abuse and that is not okay. Stay close to SR. It has been a lifesaver for me in so many ways.

Spalding

Thanks Double! I;m trying to get as much help as I can to work on these issues. I really hope to be able to reflect enough and make the changes I need to. What does FOO stand for? I looked in the acronym thread but couldn't find it there?

So today was kinda up and down, and left on a bad note again. I feel less affected today though. I was nervous this afternoon knowing I was going to head over. She was asking if I was going to come over and so I eventually told her I felt most comfortable doing dinner instead of staying over tonight. I didn't get much if any of an objection to it over the phone.
Then I get to my mum's and she starts objecting, asking that I stay that night. I kept saying no.
She's also trying to ultimatum me, by saying she wants me to come home, and if I don't then we're done. She says this because she can't keep being treated the way she is by me. She keeps saying that I am trying to put her under my thumb, and that I want to move out to be closer to friends. Wow. Denial to the max right there. It surprises me when she shows so much denial, she doesn't often in other areas.

So I stayed for dinner. There wasn't too much conflict other than the regular OSAP stuff, but less intense, and the wanting me to come home. The we watched some TV after dinner, and she got more adamant on the staying tonight thing. I could see she was getting more intoxicated as the night went on, so I knew I was definitely not staying. She was really stressing that I shouldn't call her tomorrow (because I planned to do dinner again and see how it goes for staying over tomorrow night). But, she's still on the not wanting to see me anymore thing if I do this.

ALSO, she's really upset with me and considering me a traitor/betrayor because I went boot shopping with my dad's wife instead of her. We had arranged about 2 weeks ago to go boot shopping but it never happened. I needed them pretty badly. I thought she was going to let me know when she was ready to go, but she thought the same of me. So we miscommunicated (which is a very frequent occurrence) So when this big storm hit, I had to get new boots. So I went with my dad's wife. My mum wasn't pleased to hear that one.
She thinks my dad will use the fact I ended up going with his wife to prove that my mum is derelict in her duties. (She's right, I know he will too). I feel bad for this one because it really was a miscommunication. She expected me to let her know and to basically initiate the shopping that day we were supposed to go, and I didnt.

It's just hard because each encounter ends up really unpleasant when I leave : (

DoubleDragons

FOO = family of origin

Spalding

It's just really hard. I know intellectually that it's someone's choice to drink.

But on the other hand, I know it makes things harder on someone when they are horrifically upset and hurt. And I KNOW that my choice to move is horrifically painful to her. When she says I have crushed her. It's painful. I know in my head it's her choice to keep drinking. But I also know the pain she is feeling, and I know it makes it that much harder to stop drinking.

It's so scary to hear her say she doesn't care if she dies. It's so hard.

I don't know how to reconcile the knowing it's her choice, and the knowing that I;m hurting her so badly.

And now she's telling me to leave cause she knows she's drunk. And she's saying she thought I was her success story, and that I'm not. Man. That's messed.

It's so hard to watch someone hurt so badly.

Eddiebuckle

Spalding,

This may sound redundant the first time you read it, but in my experience it's a really important concept in recovery: "In this life, pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."

You are of the age that you should be moving on in your life. That means moving out of your parents home, starting a career, making your own friends and routines. It seems to me that your mother is very threatened by this. It is natural and normal for a child growing up and away from their family of origin (FOO) to be painful to the parents. Nevertheless - it is the parents responsibility to allow the child to create his or her own independent life.

When we fight and resist the natural and normal pains that occur in life (romantic breakups, relationships moving on, aging, even death itself) we become stuck because we are resisting something that is inevitable. What results is suffering.

You are not responsible for your mothers suffering, she is. The fact that she is unwilling to take ownership of HER suffering (ie how she chooses to deal with her pain) does not make you culpable for removing the thing which is causing her pain.

Furthermore, to attempt to mitigate her pain will result in two negatives: 1. she will not have to learn and grow from this normal experience, 2. you will be avoiding your responsibility to establish your own life as an independent adult.

I don't know if this will make sense to you, please feel free to PM if you would like to me to clarify.

dandylion

EddieBuckle...TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!

dandylion

Timeiskey

Spalding,

It sounds like your dad may not have the same understanding about the dysfunction as you have, since he is attempting to give you an ultimatum about full time residence at one place or the other. So, it sounds like you might be getting the pressure from both sides. That is very unfortunate, but you sound very healthy and reasonable for someone so young that has grown up in this situation.

When I finally got away from my alcoholic mother, I refused to speak with her if she was at all intoxicated. In fact, if she would call my grandmother's house and I answered and detected a slur in her voice, I would hang up. However, my situation was different from yours in many ways. I think that you first priority must be your own safety and health moving forward. It isn't going to be easy anyway you go. My cousin's mother (my mother's sister) is an extreme drunk who is constantly pulling my cousin back and forth on the merry-go-round of guilt over her choice to get distance from the alcoholic situation. My cousin does a fair job compartmentalizing her mother's actions, however, she has not addressed her own Coda issues and they are quite obvious from outside perspective in her marital relationship. I guess what I am saying is that the now is going to be difficult no matter what. But the PRESENT you can make choices to make the FUTURE you better. I wish you all the best sweet girl.

NWGRITS

Spalding, you aren't hurting her. She'll deal just fine. Alcoholics don't live in this world the same way you and I do. All she cares about is her next drink. She's just using her words to hurt you and to get you to continue enabling her. You've gotta stop taking her quacking seriously. It's not about you at all, it's all about her and her drinking.

Spalding

Eddie, that was an awesomely helpful post. It really distilled the main points of the advice I've been receiving on all sides. Especially the idea of suffering. Suffering being the continuation of pain because of refusing to accept a reality. Really good point.

Yeah. I'm starting to understand. Like today, again. She says to leave cause all she wants to do is get really drunk. And then, when I say yes, I will be leaving, she gets man and says along the lines of 'oh of course you wont stay when Im in crisis.'
That's plainly right there a manipulation. I'm starting to see it. Why tell me to leave, and then guilt me for saying yes I'm going to leave.

She says that I just want to care for her from a distance, and that doesn't count. She says family comes first, and that I just want to run away. I guess there's just this fundamental difference in the way she sees this happening. She says she continues to drink because I'm shaking up her whole value system (which happened with my dad, and my sister before me?) I guess it's this core belief she can't reconcile and she keeps shooting herself in the foot with it.

I just know I cant change her thinking and it's a hard thing. She's going to feel how she feels, and be angry at me and I can't compromise myself for that fact. Buying into that hurts me, and her.

DoubleDragons

Spalding, listen to all of these voices of reason. They are resonating with your insides because they are right. I remember being your age. For most of my life, I had been spoonfed my mother's warped views on life, her control and her manipulation and my weak father completely capitulated to all of this. Any time I heard anything that didn't fall in line with my mother's view of "family", even when it completely resonated with me, it made me feel guilty and confused. My mother vacillates between it being my dad's fault, my sister's fault, my fault, the extended family's fault, problems with her new house, etc. etc. as to why she drinks. Interestingly, it is never her fault. There is never any self introspection. Wouldn't we all love a magic wand to turn everybody, everything, every situation into exactly what we would want it to be? Well, as we all know, it doesn't work that way. But our mothers have created a perpetual pity party as to the fact that they can't have that magic wand.

My eldest child left for college this fall. It hurt. I felt pain. It was bittersweet. I walked around with a lot of lumps in my throat for a while. But I thrilled for my son and quite proud of him. He didn't cause any of my pain. As Eddie said, sometimes the natural course of life is to experience pain. Further, it wasn't my son's responsibility or ability for that matter, to make me feel better. I had massages, I bought myself some little presents, I volunteered more at my daughter's school and the sadness has largely passed. Ask yourself this, when you were living there, was your mother happy? My mother has never been happy, no matter what her outside circumstances. She may have temporary moments of relief, but before you know it, she is raging, and complaining and sulking about anything and everything all over again. It has become her excuse and justification to drink, and to feed her addiction.