Spalding

Thanks guys, your words are helpful.
It's hard listening to her. She says Im trying to blame everything on her drinking (which Im not, Im clear to say it's part of it, but that there's more to our issues than that) and that I'm trying to define her by her drinking.
I'm just trying to answer her constant questions about this whole moving thing. And then she doesnt like my answers.
She feels like Im judging her and condemning her to drinking because I tell her I dont know what's going to happen in the future, and that relapse is part of the whole disease. I tell her I cant live with that unpredictability, and that me not living with her will be better for both me and her.
I dont know. Is that unreasonable?

SparkleKitty

Not even a little bit unreasonable.

Hawkeye13

Because you grew up with an addicted parent you feel responsible, but you aren't.

You never were, but because this is what you've known as "normal" it feels like you
are somehow being "unreasonable" even though you aren't at all.

I hope you choose to step back and not stay involved in the drama with her,
or your father.

Don't let dysfunction not of your own making define your life.

Spalding

Thanks guys. These words are really helpful. It;s so true this dysfunction is not of my making.

It`s definitely an unlearning process. Even today, my boss who knows my story and has shared with me that he is an alcoholic in recovery (not drinking anymore) had to point out an aspect to me today. It was really telling.

I hope you guys dont get tired of saying the same thing. It takes me experiencing things from many different angles for it to start sinking in. The more I see that the same response is required, the more it helps me understand.

SparkleKitty

We will not get tired of you! Please keep coming back!

Spalding

Thanks : )

Another big issue that my mum and I have is that she always wants to know what my dad and sister say about her. She says things like forewarned is forearmed.

She asked me today if my sister has talked about her lately. She then said not to say things verbatim, but just the gist of it, her general feelings to her. I refused. She always gets super angry. I try not to say things because it just causes worse problems, and I've lately been trying to not even listen to what my dad or sister say about my mom. If they have something they are unhappy with her about, they need to talk to her.

Same with my mum. If she wants to know what someone thinks she needs to ask them, not me.

It's SO frustrating. And it just makes her super angry with me. That i wont tell her things. She says Im trying to avoid being in a family when I say it's not my place.

LexieCat

All you have to say to her is that you don't want to get in the middle of anything. She wouldn't much like it if you were reporting to others in your family what she says about them, either.

You sound much more grounded lately. Glad to hear it!

Spalding

Thanks! I do say that. She doesnt care. She says it's an excuse to get out of dealing with things and being part of a family. Ive told her I try my best to not talk about what happens at her place, or about her to my dad or sister.

She's also been wanting me to get my stuff out of the house. She's varied on her clarity about it, sometimes being very resolute in getting it out, and not others. I've not had the chance to get my things out cause I need to pack them in totes. She dropped off two small ones which is def not enough a week or two ago. I havent been able to find time to get going on it. She tried to hire a mover to get my things out this weekend but that fell through.

So today, she had enough with me not answering her questions so she decided to start saying I`m effed in the head and other rude things (which has basically been the whole last few days ugh). So I told her I was going to leave if she didnt stop saying those things. Then she got REALLY mad. Told me to get my stuff out, after she decided what she had paid for and what I had paid for (Which she cant do. She was buying things like books on and off. It`s like trying to take back gifts). So she said she would just start tossing things out the door.

I dont doubt it. Now I have to go up there and pick my stuff up. Off the lawn. Great. And then she just left me a message saying "When you come to pick your stuff up off the lawn with your dad you`ll be a hypocrite. I thought you didnt talk about me behind my back, you effing effer." Or something along those lines.

Lovely. Wish me a good trek getting my stuff up and down the street. I hope my books aren't ruined in the snow. Oh, and she told me if I walk out the door that I can't expect to come back. Dear lord.

SparkleKitty

Sounds like an awful lot of drama, Spalding.

I am glad you're keeping your head. One of the hallmark dynamics of families that live with addiction is that members of the family rarely or never deal directly with each other. My mother used to say things to me like, "You tell your sister I don't like the way she talked to me on the phone yesterday." It was very manipulative, pitting us all against each other, creating distractions from the real source of chaos in the house. It was only after I began to detach from my mother's behavior that I could build (or rather re-build) relationship with my siblings. It is only being away from the drama that I can see how dysfunctional it was.

You're doing good.

Spalding

That's EXACTLY what I've had to deal with. Or when I would be at my dad's she'd extract anything that was said about her and then get mad that I didn't defend her. On one hand I can understand the idea of defending my mum when someone says something bad about her, but on the other she shouldn't have put me in that situation. So then I switched to telling her they didnt say anything until very recently. Now I'm just telling her I wont talk to her about it.

Thanks. Yeah, it does seem really similar.

Spalding

So yeah.

A bunch of my stuff sitting in the snow. Lovely.

She wanted to talk when I got there again and gave her back her key to the house (but before I gave her it, I went and made a copy just in case of emergency) but I told her no. I am too angry. She thinks I'm angry my stuff is wet. I'm angry that she can even do something like that. I'm angry that she thinks she's justified in treating me like this.

So yeah. She said she wont be speaking with me again. Has continued to threaten to dump my stuff outside. Said it could have been avoided if I had told her "It isnt a good time to call my sister, she's not very happy with you." which wasnt what she originally asked. And even so, her reaction is absolutely ridiculous. I can't even understand it.

Hawkeye13

Stay mad and go No Contact.

There is no understanding addicts.
They do what they want, and don't care about being fair.

Also, recall that she was "buying stuff" with your child support money,
so she really shouldn't be "taking back" anything.

Just leave her to sort herself out, and get back to your life as quickly as possible.

NWGRITS

Do we have the same mother? Never could help me financially for school or anything, but used my child support to bring home new suits and handbags all the time. Of course, I couldn't ask questions about it. My suggestion? No contact. Cut her off completely. It doesn't have to be permanent, but you need the room to think things through without her guilt trips and other shenanigans running in the background. Seriously, give it a try. You've got nothing to lose, kiddo. I haven't talked to my mother in 2.5 years. Best decision I ever made.

Spalding

No no, my mum has paid for my school. I haven't been left needing anything financially, really. She's paid for my schooling, phone, karate, basically everything until very recently.
She just cant see that emotionally it's been less than supportive. She can't see past her own issues and anger towards other people that what she has done in the name of that anger has put me in countless bad positions. She can't. I hope she gets help and feels better one day. It hurts to see her hurt so bad, and to cause others, including myself to hurt so badly as well.
I'll see what she says and how much she wants to see me. If I do see her, I'll keep it simple/stupid. I'll maintain my boundaries of not talking to her about what's been said about her to me. Forget her forewarned is forearmed. She's got enough forewarning from her own actions, she doesn't need me to relay the blow by blow.

Spalding

Oy.

So I saw my mum yesterday and it wasn't exactly nice. She asked me if I wanted to still stay for the superbowl that day. I had to say no. I couldn't do it. I was WAY too angry. She did apologize for what she did though. But then said something along the lines of 'sometimes people just push too hard'. And she asked me what I intended on apologizing for. All i have to apologize for is not having done the things I should have around the house, and for allowing my carelessness to ruin her things (lawn mower, swing bench, powerwasher...I do feel bad)

However. I then get a phonecall from her later that her asking me to stay for the super bowl was extending an olive branch, and that apparently I didnt want to try and resolve anything...I had to tell her I would have snapped that branch if I stayed. I was too angry and it wouldnt have been good for either her or me.

THEN. Today. It's insanely snowy. I get a call from her asking me where I am. I say at my dad's. She then gets all angry. 'Oh, you'll shovel his driveway, but you dont even call me!? I'm screwed! I'm going to have to sell this house I cant maintain it. Yeah, go kiss his a**." And then she hung up.

I didn't even touch a shovel at my dad's. I was intending on calling her and asking if she needed help shoveling. I recognize she isn't in the best of shape and it's probably unsafe for her to shovel at this point. And I get that? I just wanted to get more homework done before I got up and going on snow. PLUS I don't have proper boots for the snow. UGH.

FeelingGreat

Hi Spalding, you notice how when you won't dance to her tune she starts making insane threats and then after a while she's asking you to stay for super-bowl? There's a lot of huff and puff going on. She won't give you a liveable atmosphere, and when you're finally forced out, it's you didn't give her a chance to talk. I'm probably around her age and I'm furious about the whole thing. So unfair for you.

She surely needs some serious therapy if she can't call you and just ask for help rather than turning it into abuse. I notice she made a half-hearted attempt at drying out, but 'didn't like it'. I can relate to that...they don't allow us to drink at these places.

I hope that eventually your patient refusal to let her bully you or manipulate you will force her to look at her behaviour. Expect a lot of kicking and screaming before that time comes though.

You're doing really well considering. Are there campus counsellors who could provide you with some strategies for handling her and hopefully letting her see you will only respond when she's acting like a reasonable human being?

hopeful4

((Spalding))

Wow, your mom is one hot mess. I pay a guy $25 to shovel my drive. Just saying. I can do it myself but hate shoveling. I have two kids. I DO NOT expect them to do it unless they offer, not their responsibility. See where I am going here?

Your mom just drags you along her emotional roller coaster and it is out of hand.

Please take care of yourself. Give yourself some space from her.

XXX

Spalding

I have been going to counselling! That's how I'm even remotely understanding or dealing with any of this. Otherwise I would have just been going along with everything as it was before.

I'm still considering helping with the snow. I dont know. I probably shouldnt, but Im trying to balance the idea of enabling and the idea of helping out a family member. Maybe I let her know that her words weren't acceptable, but I will help today?

Refiner

Omg Spalding. I just read through this entire thread and am thoroughly EXHAUSTED. I really feel for you! It sounds like you're at least seeing her BS for what it is more and more. She is selfish, self-centered, entitled, manipulative, and is USING YOU. I'm so glad you got away from her "spell" or whatever it is she has/had over on you. You owe her NOTHING. I really hope you can get out on your very own soon and totally escape this unfair tug-of-war they and especially SHE is doing on you.

Spalding

And so she calls again, asks me where I am again. I tell her I'm not going to class. She says how am I going to get out of here (cause the snow drifts a lot and gets in the way of the door). I tell her I'll stop by in about an hour.

She THEN says, no, I don't need you're help, bye.

What. The. HELL. She better no complain to me when I dont come to help her today. Or tomorrow cause I have school.

EDIT: Thanks refiner. It is pretty intense. I know she's in a bad spot and needs help and compassion, but she cant expect me to keep coming back for more when she treats me like this, and doesnt even entertain the way she has treated me when I tell her about it.