LeeJane

So sorry to read your posts, my mum was just the same. Same manipulations and tactics to keep us (her kids) engaged with her.

It truly is about her and her need to protect her drinking. Please protect yourself from all the insanity. Hugs and empathy to you.

Spalding

Thanks again for all your replies.

Oy the plot thickens. Now my dad is trying to talk to me about child support. I told him I wont.
He says I need to make decisions if my mum is unwilling to spit the child support with him. To be at my dad's permanently, or to go back. I feel SO put in the middle here. I cant make that kind of decision. And now the pressure is going to be on from my mom. She's already so hurt about this, and angry about it all.

Now it's all coming down to me. I want to do a split of time between them, but now my hand is being forced by this money situation.

Hawkeye13

Hi Spalding;
I guess I'm a little confused about how child support works in the UK--could you explain a bit more about how the money would be "split"?

If you father has been paying your mother, it makes sense he would not continue to pay the full amount if you are living with him. But maybe I'm missing something?
Is this money not coming from your father but from the state?

In terms of not being in the middle, I think you should seriously consider not living with your mother at this time if she is in active addiction, whatever the money situation.

If you are living peacefully at your father's house, that's where I would go at least until you mother gets serious about addressing her drinking.
I understand that she will perhaps view that as a "betrayal" but you are not an adult yet
and living with her in active alcoholism is very damaging to you not only now but can cause life-long
damage and therefore you have to consider your best interests in the long term.

I have a sense that perhaps your mother "needs" your support money to fund herself and her drinking?
Is that the case, or is she working and able to support herself without "your" support money, which should, incidentally,
be all spent on you and not herself or to support her addiction.

Does any of this seem true?

Thumper

I wouldn't live with either one of them. My experience is that moving out into my own place brought enormous personal and emotional freedom.

Spalding

Hello everyone,

Thanks again for all of your support through all of this!

I think Thumper has the right idea. That's what's needing to happen. My dad has put a new condition on this. If he and my mum dont figure out the child support, then I have to choose to live at my dad's permanently or my mums. Unfair position to put me in.

My mum at one point even offered to pay for me to live on campus at my school, but I refused at first for fear of the aspect of control. Im considering it now. If i do that, I can accept her help for a few months and then get student loans to pay for my expenses, but that will be complicated. We'll have to see.

I'm going to try my best to get a place of my own so that this whole issue is stopped. The finances tie my parents together in ways they shouldnt be and is unhealthy to both. Plus it puts me in a position between the two which isnt helpful for me. SO. Pursuing my own living situation will help me get the space i need to be healthy, plus it might help my parents move on from this tied together aspect. Win-win no?

Now my new hurdle will be seeing if she is willing to pay for a few months. If not, then I have to apply under special conditions for loans, which will open up new issues and conflict. Not looking forward to that aspect, but we'll see. I need to do it for my health and to stop this ridiculous conflict.

Hawkeye13

Sounds good Spalding--I became what in the U.S. is called an "emancipated minor" at 17 since I could not live with my alcoholic mother anymore.

It allowed me to get extra student loans and live off campus more cheaply.
I would go to your financial aid office and start the paperwork as it can take some time in case mom's funding doesn't happen.

Not sure what UK has, but I bet something similar.
Best of luck, and glad you are getting some insight on what is best for you

Thumper

I think Spalding is in her early 20's.

Good luck Spalding. It is all your choice and I hope one of your parents can help you to initially get set up but even if they don't there are lots of options to consider. I really don't think you'll regret taking the steps to more independence even if there is some sacrifice and hardship in the very beginning. You are clearly a very smart, caring, and centered woman. Things look very bright for you no matter what but the power you have in your own life will amaze you once you start focusing on yourself - which is definitely what you should be doing at this point in your life.

Spalding

Thanks guys, I really appreciate your support.

I'm nowf acing the decision to apply for student loans under a special appeal for issues within the family. it's bringing up issues about naming what's gone on. Sometimes I feel like I put in such a way that makes it seem worse than it is. Using the word abuse is really hard for me. I don't want to accept what's happened as that. Or to see my parents as people who are abusive. It's upsetting. But I know I need to also accept reality. I don't know. It's frustrating.

hopeful4

OH Spalding, my heart just hurts for you. It is abuse. I think again you are future tripping. You are afraid to write down for others to see what is happening. They are not going to charge in there and do anything. They are not going to tell anyone. They are just using this to determine information for you. That's all. Breathe.

I know it's hard, but just do it and get it over with. Get the loan and define healthy boundaries for yourself with both parents. That is the thing to do.

Something I learned here at SR is that it's possible to love from a distance. I also learned that you cannot be of help to anyone else if you are a mess yourself. Sort of like the airplane mask, put it on yourself first so you can help those around you.

You deserve a place of your own to be able to step away from this and not be put in the middle. Sit your mom down when she is sober and tell her just what you said to us, that you are afraid for her, that you love her so much, and that you hope she will get help. Then, let it go. The rest is on her, and up to her. You cannot MAKE them do anything. If so, none of us would be here in the first place!

Tight hugs!

knowthetriggers

Hello Spalding and Welcome! In the end you must do what is right for YOU. Keeping you in thoughts and prayers. Keep coming back!

Spalding

Thanks everyone.

I think what I'm trying to articulate is that I'm afraid I've done things wrong. This whole moving out business happened extremely quickly. Before that, I hadn't set up too many boundaries. I had set one up successfully that I would not go out and buy (with her money) her alcohol. That was fine.
Other than that, behaviours that had bothered me for a long time which I had complained about to her, but not really set proper boundaries for were things like:
-Waking me up to talk to her at night because she was upset/didnt have anyone else to talk to on the phone
-Attached to that was having me stay up and play her music all night
-Taking to me about my dad in ways that made me uncomfortable
-Always having me go out with her for groceries, small trips out for errands (related to her anxiety) despite my being busy or unwilling to go (I guess I became resentful that I had to be there EVERY TIME, if it hadnt been all of the time, I would have had less of an issue)
-Eventually I ended up going out to do the shopping most of the times alone, with her coming for a big shopping trip now and then, when she was feeling better
-As she became resentful of my resentment, she ended up getting pretty mean to me on the long nights.
-Then she wouldnt allow me to go to bed cause she wanted to talk, and if I didnt stay up she would get extremely upset. That's when I started the boundary of if I wont get sleep, then I leave the house for somewhere I will. Two weeks of a bad episode for her lead to me being out half that time, and so I decided to leave.

Things like that. It wasnt always constant, it just became hard for me to deal with. I think I became really resentful. I ended up dropping the ball on the simple things (something I already struggled with) such as putting the garbage out and loading the dishwasher. That then became the major struggle between us. It's weird.

I guess I just feel like I did things wrong too, and I dont know how to make it right? The things that I did wrong were in conjunction and related to her issues, so I feel both responsible, but also in a way not? Is that wrong? I want to be able to say sorry for those things, but to also acknowledge that some of it was understandable too.

So moving out was precipitated by all of those things for me, and I didnt exactly see it coming so quickly, but when it did, it made sense! It didnt to her. And it was stunning to her.

I think this is all jumbling. I guess Im left with balancing the responsibility (guilty feeings attached) to my issues, and trying to deal with how sudden this whole moving business is. Plus with the idea that what had happened was justifiably move out worthy.

SparkleKitty

Spalding, forgetting to put the garbage out or unload the dishwasher is just not the same as not allowing you to sleep, badmouthing your father, and demanding your attention/controlling your schedule all the time.

You really really really don't have anything to feel guilty about. You were in an uncomfortable and frankly very unhealthy situation and you did what you needed to do to get out of it. Your mother is an adult and she is responsible for her own feelings, how she deals with those feelings, and the consequences of her own behavior.

Sometimes when my AMother or XABF failed to take responsibility for something they had caused, I felt like I had to. I felt like, "Well, somebody should!" That wasn't healthy for me OR for them. I thought that if I took responsibility, then I could fix it and make everyone happy, but none of it was mine to fix. Your mom is an addict. Her relationships are all skewed by that one fact, and until she takes responsibility for her addiction, you cannot expect to have a normal mother-child relationship with her.

Try to bring your focus back to you. Your life, your future, your choices. What can you do today for you?

Spalding

Thanks Sparkle, that was a really helpful post.

Tonight's been a tough one. It's 3:30am where I am. I was at my mum's for the start of our 3 days this week. We go out for dinner (which can be touchy if she's drinking cause it's known to be a starting point for a bad night. I was worried about it when she said she wanted to go out, but I did my best not to prejudge the situation and be afraid of it from the start before I knew what was going to happen). She tells me about her Dr's appt. Things aren't looking good for her liver, and she needs to quit NOW if she wants to stick around. We talked about that. I realize now I made a mistake in trying to remain as calm as possible about it so as not to upset her (still trying to think through her brain which ISNT HELPFUL!!!). I think I might (maaaaaybbeee) articulate that one to her once she sobers up and I'll acknowledge that I messed up there. It gave her the impression that I didn't care which is really not how I feel. I'm glad I recognized that, it's a definite step forward.

So we had a pleasant dinner other than that. Didn't seem too bad, though she was a bit tipsy by the end of it. I knew in my head it probably wasnt gonna be good, but I tried not to go too far in the future and judge the situation until that bridge was crossed. So we get home and watch TV, things are fine. There were only a few mentions about my moving out not being helpful to her emotional state which makes it harder to stop drinking (at dinner, and while watching TV). I didnt engage in that.

SO then I go to bed. I have a boundary up that if I'm woken up and wont be allowed to go back to bed so that she can talk to me, then I will have to leave the house. I'm asleep for a bit, but I'm then woken up by her at 3am.
She's upset because the two dogs are acting up and not letting her sleep. She says it's cause they're stressed about the change of me being there/not being there as I used to be. (I can understand this, it makes sense. One of our dogs is very anxious). She wants to talk to me about it. Saying 'why should you get to sleep if I'm kept awake by the dogs because of YOUR choice? We need to talk about this."
I tell her that I understand her issue, I think it is an issue, but that I need to be in bed and sleeping. I tell her that I will take one dog so that they cant cause trouble and prevent her from sleeping, and that we can talk in the morning.
She resists. I remind her about my boundary, and then she says if that's the case I should just leave. I told her that I wouldnt stay up and talk with her because I need to sleep and she's drunk right now. She didn't appreciate that one. (I figured it was best to be honest about my point for leaving? It was part of it along with the boundary?)
After some back and forth with me reiterating my point, I ended up saying ok, and leaving, expressing my boundary again. I told her I'll talk to her tomorrow.

So I ended up leaving. She kept trying to engage me, but I refused to keep talking to her, saying I would call her tomorrow. Of course now she's saying that she wont be speaking to me anymore after this. That I'll need to contact her through her lawyer. That apparently there's some sort of letter in the mail that I'm not going to be happy about from her lawyer.

We'll see.

It's been a lot to process. Some really not happy news in there. It's really scary to hear what I heard today about her health.
I do think though that I handled the situation that happened later pretty well. I dont think that it wasnt fair to do what I did. I offered an alternative so that she wouldnt be bothered by the dogs. I reminded her of my boundary. She said to leave, so I left.

Spalding

Well.

Called her this morning. She's obviously quite upset. Said a really disgusting thing to me about my dad (which I've heard before, but I really cant believe she says things like that).

She says that she won't play by my 'rules' (boundaries. I'm not controlling her behaviour, I'm setting out the lines around what I will accept). She's seeming very done with me. I asked if we were going to have dinner tonight (and I guess continue the 3 days) and she said "we'll see".

She also said that she spoke to the counselor we went to see together (I doubt it, he retired the week we saw him. She might be lying, but I'm not sure). She says that I'm the one that's codependent, (I am, and I've explained that to her), that she's not codependent. Which. Well. I wouldnt be in my codependent spot if it weren't for her actions...? I take responsibility for my codependency and only I can change that, but I wouldnt be in that spot if it weren't for her...

Spalding

Sorry for the triple post. I really just need to get this out.

My mum appeared at my dad's today. This is the second time she's done this. She ended up talking to my dad's wife, trying to give her backstory to the crappy things he's done to my mum. Which he has. But she has no right to have done this.

I called her after to tell her I would see her tomorrow, I wouldnt be coming by again today due to her intoxication. She told me to come today and get the rest of my stuff out of her house or I would find it on the lawn. She answered the phone with "hello traitor". Lovely. She says I wont be speaking to her ever again.

Lovely.

I need to be out of both parents' houses, and be on my own. It will take me out of the middle, reduce the strain between my parents about financial issues, and be a good step forward into my future.
This needs to happen.

Hawkeye13

Yes it does, and the sooner the better Spalding.

For the record, you aren't the crazy one here--she's manipulating and lying and doing some pretty unacceptable things.

I would take someone with you to get your things if possible and go No Contact for awhile--she
has no right to treat you this way.

Hugs

Spalding

Thanks Hawkeye!

I've just applied for the student apartments for May, and if that doesnt work out, then it will be September. Hopefully it works out.

We'll see what happens. I know she's hurting. I hope she gets help. It's scary when I hear how bad her liver is getting. But there's really nothing I can do. It's hard to sit back and watch someone kill themselves slowly. Especially when it's my own mother.

Hawkeye13

Been there and did that. It sucked, but you have a right to live
and she also has the same choice.

Keep getting to meetings and therapy--you cannot fix this, as much as you love her.

Spalding

Hey everyone, just an update.

It's been a tough week or two. I'm moving ahead with applying for financial assistance in order to move out. My mum is still railing me for it. She wants me to come home. It's a big change emotionally for her, and that I understand. Furthermore it's a HUGE financial setback as well. I didnt realize, but it's probably going to cost her 17-25k in child support she had expected to get. I mean. That's huge. Plus the fact that my dad had screwed her over before on child support. She could potentially lose her house over this. She's in the middle of refinancing to deal with debts. PLUS she's dealing with her own mental and emotional states.
I know that moving out will be best for me. I do. But I cant shake the concern over how much it's going to impact my mum financially, as well as our relationship emotionally. It's a huge risk to take.

She has reached out a few times over the last week for help. She tried going to a withdrawal management center, but she didnt like it there. Now she's looking for in home support to withdraw from alcohol. It's a good first step. I dunno what she will do after, but it's up to her. I need to let go of my fear that she wont get help. It's up to her.

Hawkeye13

I really think you are making the best choice.

I know it isn't easy, but things cannot keep going like they were before.
She does have to choose to help herself, and hopefully you moving
will encourage her to do this. You staying certainly wouldn't.

Hang in there and keep posting Spalding.
Expect many more guilt trips but remember, she has made this situation
herself and you are not "to blame" for any of it.