he dumped the vodka
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
waggin, I know it's easy to feel attacked here sometimes, and to feel pressured or like folks don't understand. I felt that myself at times, mostly when I was new. But you know what? Usually the posts that I found the hardest to read were the ones that turned out to be the most helpful as time went on.
This bunch doesn't sugar coat things, that's for sure. This thread might help w/understanding why that is: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...y-they-do.html
Wishing you strength and clarity.
This bunch doesn't sugar coat things, that's for sure. This thread might help w/understanding why that is: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...y-they-do.html
Wishing you strength and clarity.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 156
I think everyone who see's their partner a mess and comes here knows that things will not magically turn around. We know we have to just walk away. We already know all of this, and we beat ourselves up b/c we just can't seem to do it! I think she gets how it is "going to be."= progressive disease. I am really sorry if this post upsets anyone in this thread. I am sincere in what I am about to share.
Although we have collective experience in this disease and see how a majority of things turn out statistically, we cannot make hypothesized guesses about someone else's recovery and whether they will or won't get sober. An addict can manipulate today, and tomorrow hit rock bottom and start recovery. We are not the Higher Power in control and we cannot forecast when someone's rock bottom is coming based on how they are acting today. The only thing we can hang our hats on at the end of the day (and it is not "likely" it is a fact) is that it will get worse and death will come.
My therapist who has studied alcoholism for 40+ years corrects me when I tell her how "likely things are" to end a certain way. It is tempting to think I really can tell how it will turn out based on all the things this disease flings in your face everyday (manipulation, emotional abuse, etc.). But when she says this to me, I cannot argue there b/c she has a point. And 40+ years of experience. lol.
1. If all of this was so easy to do, we all wouldn't be here right now.. still visiting this forum. I think it is safe to say that whether we are still with the alcoholic or left, having even been through this experience we all share 1 thing- the knowledge of how difficult this can be to detach from the drinker and their alcoholism. We all have that in common. We also know it does not happen over night. (It didn't for me.) If it has for anyone here, I applaud you and then in that case you probably don't need to come here and post b/c you licked it and moved forward pronto!
2. Not being pregnant, this is a very difficult thing to do.. Pregnancy? Hormones? Adding that to where she is at is very difficult. I know. I was there. I won't go into detail but being the partner and having to play commando over your brain in situations where you love someone who is putting on the guilt and then killing themselves is hard enough. Now add that you are a woman and have pregnancy hormones raging through you and that is enough to make you crack and go back to that person hoping for anything. give her a break.
3. We come here, and attend Al-anon for the very reason that others, like ourselves know the "pain of living with Alcoholism" and can understand why we are where we are. We come here so that we have a safe place to 'be'. To be stuck when we know we should just dump them and move on. To be sad when we wish we could just say, "F this no more!" To be human and say, " I know I left him but I still miss the Sh*t out of that drunk bum and why can't I just forget him." We come here to be human. We know where we "should be," but sitting there beating ourselves up over where we should be, is not getting us there TODAY. Accepting where we are in our detachment, whether it is a lot or none at all, is the first step in actually furthering our recovery. Acceptance.
We all have probably made the mistake in the beginning of going to those who don't get this disease, and they ask these very same questions to the point where we feel badgered, "why do you love this person?" "what are you doing" "who would do that". How many of those friends helped you cut the alcoholic loose the first time? How many of those friends did you cut off asap when you were addicted to the alcoholic? That is why al anon helps. We can start recovery, and not have to leave the alcoholic today. Leaving or staying is our choice and both are okay if that is what we can handle for today, and working a program meanwhile allows us to trust that changes are taking place.
"What is it exactly that you love about this person?" "What is there to love?"
We know this disease has its own ugly personality, and understand it is possible to actually love someone but not their disease!! Love the person not the action. When someone else is in the same spot as we were, it is not our job to decide whether or not their love for that person is warranted, or whether there is real love to be had there...it is to offer support that we have been there too and understand the concept of 'loving someone but not their disease' and how that leads to being stuck with someone who behaves like a bum or a jerk or a liar.
Sometimes our bitterness at our own alcoholic experiences causes us to lose sensitivity to others and just deliver the news, we've all been there I think. Or the frustration we feel watching someone torture themselves like this causes us to shame them..."what are you thinking?" None of these things help a partner leave. Especially shaming, which is why we find it safe to come here and to al-anon, where others are understanding due to the fact that they made many of those same mistakes.
The real issue I am getting at here is that this is not about "WHY" is this person going back. We know why-- we did it!! But about what can be done to ultimately lead her to leave. Getting into Al-Anon, getting with an addiction's specialist, working on recovery and not focusing on why it is not happening right NOW but what she can do so that it will eventually happen. I was not able to just jump into that state of mind the 1st time, I was really hurting inside, confused, and a mess. (I needed a program to work on myself while I broke up and went back, believed it all, got dooped again, and then realized all the work I had done in alanon & in therapy was starting to help me understand the disease and distance myself from it. ) It takes a long time to get into this hole with the alcoholic and it takes a long time to get out! I'll say it right now, I broke up with ex abf and I just made a post about how I miss him terribly!! I WISH HE WOULD STOP DRINKING RIGHT NOW! LOL. I still think about him all the time! Why am I contradicting myself if I chose to leave him? Well, I guess I am human...and this was hard! and I belong in Al-anon.
I accept where I am today, and wow I don't remember when & where something changed exactly, I guess it just has been changing.. and I am recovering....
Waggin, you are a smart woman. You know it isn't going to be the life you want if he does not get sober. But you are hoping he will get sober. Maybe he will. Maybe he won't. We cannot guess based on what he is doing. Maybe tomorrow he will have a drastic accident and hit bottom, or just have no bottom and keep on. But meanwhile, his disease will ravage your health and mental stability over time if you don't have a recovery program to give you strength. You have to find peace within yourself whether he is drinking or not, and recovery from being so attached to his alcoholism. This is where Al anon helps.
If for today you want to be with him, then do what you can for today don't feel discouraged about that.. You made a big step coming here for help. Are you going to start attending al anon meetings or have you? Maybe you can get a sponsor there to call when you are feeling weak and down? Also an addiction's therapist if you can(I know they are costly.) Going to the meetings and letting the program "wash on over you" as they say will really help keep your stress levels down so you and the little one can be well! That is most important right now, your health and the pregnancy and if you keep at it you will eventually have the strength to do what you need to do.
From Al-Anon's Courage to Change:
"We are often reminded to keep coming back. Today I will remember that this not only applies to meetings, but to learning the new attitudes and behavior that are the long term benefits of Al Anon recovery. I may not see the results today, but I can trust that I am making progress."
A stonecutter may strike a rock ninety-nine times with no apparent effect, not even a crack on the surface. Yet with the hundredth blow, the rock splits in two. It was not the final blow that did the trick, but all that had gone before.
The same is true of Al-Anon recovery. Perhaps I am working on accepting that alcoholism is a disease, or learning to detach, or struggling with self-pity. I may pursue a goal for months without obvious results and become convinced that I am wasting my time. But if I continue going to meetings, sharing about my struggle, taking it one day at a time, and being patient with myself, I may awaken to find that I have changed, seemingly overnight. Suddenly, I have the acceptance, detachment, or serenity I have been seeking. The results may have revealed themselves abruptly, but I know that all those months of faith and hard work made the changes possible.
Although we have collective experience in this disease and see how a majority of things turn out statistically, we cannot make hypothesized guesses about someone else's recovery and whether they will or won't get sober. An addict can manipulate today, and tomorrow hit rock bottom and start recovery. We are not the Higher Power in control and we cannot forecast when someone's rock bottom is coming based on how they are acting today. The only thing we can hang our hats on at the end of the day (and it is not "likely" it is a fact) is that it will get worse and death will come.
My therapist who has studied alcoholism for 40+ years corrects me when I tell her how "likely things are" to end a certain way. It is tempting to think I really can tell how it will turn out based on all the things this disease flings in your face everyday (manipulation, emotional abuse, etc.). But when she says this to me, I cannot argue there b/c she has a point. And 40+ years of experience. lol.
1. If all of this was so easy to do, we all wouldn't be here right now.. still visiting this forum. I think it is safe to say that whether we are still with the alcoholic or left, having even been through this experience we all share 1 thing- the knowledge of how difficult this can be to detach from the drinker and their alcoholism. We all have that in common. We also know it does not happen over night. (It didn't for me.) If it has for anyone here, I applaud you and then in that case you probably don't need to come here and post b/c you licked it and moved forward pronto!
2. Not being pregnant, this is a very difficult thing to do.. Pregnancy? Hormones? Adding that to where she is at is very difficult. I know. I was there. I won't go into detail but being the partner and having to play commando over your brain in situations where you love someone who is putting on the guilt and then killing themselves is hard enough. Now add that you are a woman and have pregnancy hormones raging through you and that is enough to make you crack and go back to that person hoping for anything. give her a break.
3. We come here, and attend Al-anon for the very reason that others, like ourselves know the "pain of living with Alcoholism" and can understand why we are where we are. We come here so that we have a safe place to 'be'. To be stuck when we know we should just dump them and move on. To be sad when we wish we could just say, "F this no more!" To be human and say, " I know I left him but I still miss the Sh*t out of that drunk bum and why can't I just forget him." We come here to be human. We know where we "should be," but sitting there beating ourselves up over where we should be, is not getting us there TODAY. Accepting where we are in our detachment, whether it is a lot or none at all, is the first step in actually furthering our recovery. Acceptance.
We all have probably made the mistake in the beginning of going to those who don't get this disease, and they ask these very same questions to the point where we feel badgered, "why do you love this person?" "what are you doing" "who would do that". How many of those friends helped you cut the alcoholic loose the first time? How many of those friends did you cut off asap when you were addicted to the alcoholic? That is why al anon helps. We can start recovery, and not have to leave the alcoholic today. Leaving or staying is our choice and both are okay if that is what we can handle for today, and working a program meanwhile allows us to trust that changes are taking place.
"What is it exactly that you love about this person?" "What is there to love?"
We know this disease has its own ugly personality, and understand it is possible to actually love someone but not their disease!! Love the person not the action. When someone else is in the same spot as we were, it is not our job to decide whether or not their love for that person is warranted, or whether there is real love to be had there...it is to offer support that we have been there too and understand the concept of 'loving someone but not their disease' and how that leads to being stuck with someone who behaves like a bum or a jerk or a liar.
Sometimes our bitterness at our own alcoholic experiences causes us to lose sensitivity to others and just deliver the news, we've all been there I think. Or the frustration we feel watching someone torture themselves like this causes us to shame them..."what are you thinking?" None of these things help a partner leave. Especially shaming, which is why we find it safe to come here and to al-anon, where others are understanding due to the fact that they made many of those same mistakes.
The real issue I am getting at here is that this is not about "WHY" is this person going back. We know why-- we did it!! But about what can be done to ultimately lead her to leave. Getting into Al-Anon, getting with an addiction's specialist, working on recovery and not focusing on why it is not happening right NOW but what she can do so that it will eventually happen. I was not able to just jump into that state of mind the 1st time, I was really hurting inside, confused, and a mess. (I needed a program to work on myself while I broke up and went back, believed it all, got dooped again, and then realized all the work I had done in alanon & in therapy was starting to help me understand the disease and distance myself from it. ) It takes a long time to get into this hole with the alcoholic and it takes a long time to get out! I'll say it right now, I broke up with ex abf and I just made a post about how I miss him terribly!! I WISH HE WOULD STOP DRINKING RIGHT NOW! LOL. I still think about him all the time! Why am I contradicting myself if I chose to leave him? Well, I guess I am human...and this was hard! and I belong in Al-anon.
I accept where I am today, and wow I don't remember when & where something changed exactly, I guess it just has been changing.. and I am recovering.... Waggin, you are a smart woman. You know it isn't going to be the life you want if he does not get sober. But you are hoping he will get sober. Maybe he will. Maybe he won't. We cannot guess based on what he is doing. Maybe tomorrow he will have a drastic accident and hit bottom, or just have no bottom and keep on. But meanwhile, his disease will ravage your health and mental stability over time if you don't have a recovery program to give you strength. You have to find peace within yourself whether he is drinking or not, and recovery from being so attached to his alcoholism. This is where Al anon helps.
If for today you want to be with him, then do what you can for today don't feel discouraged about that.. You made a big step coming here for help. Are you going to start attending al anon meetings or have you? Maybe you can get a sponsor there to call when you are feeling weak and down? Also an addiction's therapist if you can(I know they are costly.) Going to the meetings and letting the program "wash on over you" as they say will really help keep your stress levels down so you and the little one can be well! That is most important right now, your health and the pregnancy and if you keep at it you will eventually have the strength to do what you need to do.
From Al-Anon's Courage to Change:
"We are often reminded to keep coming back. Today I will remember that this not only applies to meetings, but to learning the new attitudes and behavior that are the long term benefits of Al Anon recovery. I may not see the results today, but I can trust that I am making progress."
A stonecutter may strike a rock ninety-nine times with no apparent effect, not even a crack on the surface. Yet with the hundredth blow, the rock splits in two. It was not the final blow that did the trick, but all that had gone before.
The same is true of Al-Anon recovery. Perhaps I am working on accepting that alcoholism is a disease, or learning to detach, or struggling with self-pity. I may pursue a goal for months without obvious results and become convinced that I am wasting my time. But if I continue going to meetings, sharing about my struggle, taking it one day at a time, and being patient with myself, I may awaken to find that I have changed, seemingly overnight. Suddenly, I have the acceptance, detachment, or serenity I have been seeking. The results may have revealed themselves abruptly, but I know that all those months of faith and hard work made the changes possible.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
waggin.....a sentiment that you will hear around this board is "Take what works and leave the rest". This is a public forum....made up of people with many different styles of communicating. That is just the nature of the thing. Many different strokes for many different folks....
What is the most important of all is what is helpful and what works for YOU. That is the part that you have to decide. Take what works and tune out the rest. Take what you need and ignore the rest. take what helps and screen out the rest. LOL!...I know you get the idea.....
One thing that was said to me once....and, I still try to remember it at the times when I feel that I get ineffective or frivolous or just plain stupid advice...."Consider every idea a "potentially good" one for at least one full hour. Then, either keep it or throw it away.
(this takes the conflict and sting out of the situation)
I felt that this allows me to keep an open mind--yet, still keeps me in charge of my own decision making.
That is my two cents.
Waggin...you ARE going to work your way through this!
dandylion
What is the most important of all is what is helpful and what works for YOU. That is the part that you have to decide. Take what works and tune out the rest. Take what you need and ignore the rest. take what helps and screen out the rest. LOL!...I know you get the idea.....
One thing that was said to me once....and, I still try to remember it at the times when I feel that I get ineffective or frivolous or just plain stupid advice...."Consider every idea a "potentially good" one for at least one full hour. Then, either keep it or throw it away.
(this takes the conflict and sting out of the situation)
I felt that this allows me to keep an open mind--yet, still keeps me in charge of my own decision making.
That is my two cents.
Waggin...you ARE going to work your way through this!
dandylion
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: fl
Posts: 63
Wow thanks guys.
Just to clarify, im not pregnant, thank goodness! But I know there are a few women on SR who are pregnant and stuck in a similar situation. I cant imagine how difficult that must be. But thankfully that is one massive thing I don't have on my plate. But I appreciate all that youve said very much.
I have located alanon meetings in my area. Monday morning there's a beginner's meeting. Im excited to go. There are also a bunch of meetings near where he lives, if I ever just need to get out to a meeting if things get rough. Ive also been journaling a little since the beginning of the month. Im getting in the habit again and it has given me a grip.
Merry christmas, everyone
Just to clarify, im not pregnant, thank goodness! But I know there are a few women on SR who are pregnant and stuck in a similar situation. I cant imagine how difficult that must be. But thankfully that is one massive thing I don't have on my plate. But I appreciate all that youve said very much.
I have located alanon meetings in my area. Monday morning there's a beginner's meeting. Im excited to go. There are also a bunch of meetings near where he lives, if I ever just need to get out to a meeting if things get rough. Ive also been journaling a little since the beginning of the month. Im getting in the habit again and it has given me a grip.
Merry christmas, everyone
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Waggin....I have a confession: As I was reading that post---I was laughing my ring off! I was thinking: Just wait until waggin reads this and receives the news that she is now pregnant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!
***I have a twisted sense of humor. please forgive me.
dandylion
***I have a twisted sense of humor. please forgive me.
dandylion
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Waggin....I have a confession: As I was reading that post---I was laughing my ring off! I was thinking: Just wait until waggin reads this and receives the news that she is now pregnant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!
***I have a twisted sense of humor. please forgive me.
dandylion
***I have a twisted sense of humor. please forgive me.
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 156
Hahaha! Sorry I got that wrong. My mistake:-) just wanted to let you know! Lol. Well erase that part.:-) was reading and thought it was the same person from a similar aituation// either way still applies what I said. Lols I agree with dandylion that it is made up of many different opinions and that u take what u like and leave the rest. So many different styles we can benefit from everything if we open our minds.
Take what you like- consider the true message under all of it- but also from our side we need to help eachother be honest with ourselves too. Doing this helps us who have lived through it avoid the pitfalls of shaming another in need. Afterall, we have gained nothing from these experiences of standing where she stood if we cannot offer help and support without causing her to feel embarassed or defensive over the decisions she is making. This is hard stuff. I believe part of our *real* recovery is not only getting through what we did and acceptance for ourselves, but for where others are at in their recovery and accepting that. Even if they are not where we think they should be. That is not our business and we are all guilty of forgetting that. If we are truly doing all this in a spirit of faith to help others then we'll be grateful for these moments where we can recalibrate ourselves.
The threads i always went back to re read were the ones where the ones where people made me feel like I didnt have to do anything right now or there was something wrong with me. But they also expressed the danger in which it was headed.
I agree with dandylion that it is made up of many different opinions and that u take what u like and leave the rest. So many different styles we can benefit from everything if we open our minds. Take what you like- consider the true message under all of it- but also from our side we need to help eachother be honest with ourselves too. Doing this helps us who have lived through it avoid the pitfalls of shaming another in need. Afterall, we have gained nothing from these experiences of standing where she stood if we cannot offer help and support without causing her to feel embarassed or defensive over the decisions she is making. This is hard stuff. I believe part of our *real* recovery is not only getting through what we did and acceptance for ourselves, but for where others are at in their recovery and accepting that. Even if they are not where we think they should be. That is not our business and we are all guilty of forgetting that. If we are truly doing all this in a spirit of faith to help others then we'll be grateful for these moments where we can recalibrate ourselves.
The threads i always went back to re read were the ones where the ones where people made me feel like I didnt have to do anything right now or there was something wrong with me. But they also expressed the danger in which it was headed.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: fl
Posts: 63
Merry Christmas!!
Dandy: my sense of humor is totally sick and twisted. Not to worry!
Bird: That is totally what im trying to do with him- just see where he's at and accepting it. Im not bending over backwards anymore. He knows what needs to change. And that is totally up to him. I won't be cleaning any buckets or tending to him when he makes himself sick. Im still his girlfriend but I live at my own apartment and I have to work and sleep at night. So... "call me when you feel better!" Ya know?
He will either find an apartment or his parents will kick him out. Soon he won't have anyone to help him when he's sick. Im a little anxious to see what happens, but not preoccupied. I'm really pulling for him. Obviously. But he's aware I have my limits and that it's been hard. I believe he is truly disgusted with himself. And that's been a huge part of his problem. He needs humility but he also needs confidence. I think the humility is close. He needs time well spent for the confidence. I absolutely need that as well.
So the changes ive made in my thinking and my attitude have helped me tremendously. And I wouldnt have felt this relief if I hadnt gotten to hear from everybody here. I am so grateful. And im not done figuring things out
Things could change, as they often do!
I want to add that I still realize that our relationship has a slim chance of surviving. But I also know that some do. Im just setting boundaries and taking a leap of faith that he'll find the strength to do this before it starts really killing him.
Dandy: my sense of humor is totally sick and twisted. Not to worry!
Bird: That is totally what im trying to do with him- just see where he's at and accepting it. Im not bending over backwards anymore. He knows what needs to change. And that is totally up to him. I won't be cleaning any buckets or tending to him when he makes himself sick. Im still his girlfriend but I live at my own apartment and I have to work and sleep at night. So... "call me when you feel better!" Ya know?
He will either find an apartment or his parents will kick him out. Soon he won't have anyone to help him when he's sick. Im a little anxious to see what happens, but not preoccupied. I'm really pulling for him. Obviously. But he's aware I have my limits and that it's been hard. I believe he is truly disgusted with himself. And that's been a huge part of his problem. He needs humility but he also needs confidence. I think the humility is close. He needs time well spent for the confidence. I absolutely need that as well.
So the changes ive made in my thinking and my attitude have helped me tremendously. And I wouldnt have felt this relief if I hadnt gotten to hear from everybody here. I am so grateful. And im not done figuring things out
Things could change, as they often do!I want to add that I still realize that our relationship has a slim chance of surviving. But I also know that some do. Im just setting boundaries and taking a leap of faith that he'll find the strength to do this before it starts really killing him.
Bunnies!
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
Self-loathing is one of the many things that drives the alcoholic train. He certainly isn't unique in that aspect, and unfortunately that usually isn't enough to send them into recovery. They drink because they hate themselves and then hate themselves because they drink, and the cycle continues. That's why shaming is totally unproductive - they look down on themselves enough that they don't really need anyone's help at it. It's another pain to numb with the drink.
Anyway, just keep in mind that his recovery needs to be his #1 priority and that you'll likely take a back seat for a while if he gets serious about it. Many people come here hurt and upset that they aren't the center of the newly sober alcoholic's world, and it takes a while to get it through that they simply cannot be the main focus, and that the A needs to have tunnel vision on sobriety in the early stages. I hope he really gets better for himself and that you can at least maintain a close friendship, if nothing else.
Anyway, just keep in mind that his recovery needs to be his #1 priority and that you'll likely take a back seat for a while if he gets serious about it. Many people come here hurt and upset that they aren't the center of the newly sober alcoholic's world, and it takes a while to get it through that they simply cannot be the main focus, and that the A needs to have tunnel vision on sobriety in the early stages. I hope he really gets better for himself and that you can at least maintain a close friendship, if nothing else.
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