Chronic Relapse/Recovery - Last Round for Me?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 923
Lakedays...have a lot of similarities in my story with husband as well as 5 adult children. They also think I am the "B" and well...just know there are a lot of similarities...I have been feeling very trapped the past year and I have an adult child (22 yrs old) who is an active heroin addict and husband doesn't 'seem' to drink as he did 12 years ago...but he is challenging...and I have hit my bottom. Am working on myself and working to do whatever gradual and small steps that I can to reclaim myself. I, too, am getting silent treatment...and have reframed that as mother 'letting her adult children go' and just letting go and letting God...for now...as I have no where else to go and am not well enough right now to take another stand...plus in my 40 years (this year) I am reclaiming that I 'know' I did my best and gave everything...wish I had gotten better insight before I hit bottom on many levels...but it didn't happen...as I was raised by an ultra christian and also high functioning set of parents and have dealt with the loss of a child which has a lot of the same long-term consequences. For right now...just working on my own self care and hoping that life won't remain this miserable...husband doesn't drink any longer...did work on this too...and having 3 of 5 children go through drug addiction may have given him pause...right now...focusing on a good relationship with my 4 year old grandson...and grateful for the good moments. I tend to blame myself for not understanding sooner in life...but am working to remember that I could only work on things as I became aware of them...and in my case it was after my son passed at my age of 35 when I started to have my spiritual awakenings and even then...they came in their same order, etc. I, too, focused intensely on bringing my then underage children to adulthood and did a lot as they went through their crises...this child is 22 and I have no more energy...no to have an idea, to consult with another expert, to work to 'inspire' and 'implore' the family to do therapy that 'might' help...the oldest two always said no anyway...until the 3rd had her psychotic episodes and now that she is functioning in the real world...she has joined them and youngest never was very alert to things...so it has been easy for the entire remaining family to just retreat, set their boundaries on addict and me...then when I back off...they get involved...addiction feels like it has made me into the Tar Baby of Brer Rabbit...however, I am now working the programs of alanon and naranon for me...and doing what I can. There is a lot of wisdom and experience on this site...letting go has never been a strength for me...or my personality type...and right now...I am just doing what I need to do and praying that God will show me a way that I can take...one small step at a time...as I get overwhelmed by the BIG solutions and often don't know what I feel or how to go about things (my brain overcomplicates things)--so one step that you can do at a time.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 10
Redatlanta; Clearly you are very aggressive in your stance. And essentially yelling and/or shaming me for my weakness in what my choices have been or are is not really going to change my mind. Actually, it makes me defensive and that's not where i need to be right now.
It's not that your point of view doesn't have merit, but as you know nothing is quite as black and white after 25 years, especially when I've only pretty much focused on the "highlights/"
I do so well understand the "what about me" demanding attitude. Really well, in fact, although I agree far less so that he should be begging. I definitely want my feelings acknowledged, but I don't want begging nor do I want to be any more of an emotional hostage taker to him than he can be to me. Neither is good.
And as a complete aside: Where I am is very nice... it's just that weather is a constant shade of gray. Like it literally doesn't change outside from where you get up to when you go to bed. That be hard on the mood for me. But at least I recognize it. And tomorrow I will be somewhere far far warmer and sunny - so there's that.
Among family and close friends, his being in rehab is not a secret. However, he does have a business reputation and a very good one at that. He would like his private life kept private. I perfectly agree with this. What I agree less with, however, is that he would very much prefer no one discuss it as it pertains to his experience. Some of that I can absolutely support, but sometimes like above, it is just general info but he would find it invasive. He isn't all wrong and I am not all right.
I will admit something though... he once said to me that sometimes sharing his feelings with me has them landing in his face. And sometimes, I admit, that is likely more true that I'd like it to be. Im a sharer - he is not. I take full responsibility there and have worked very hard to not let my temper get the better of me because I too can toss a pretty mean slash across the room.
And about the DUIs, yes it's horrid and dangerous and we are so very very fortunate that the only people getting hurt is us. But let me say this: I read on here all over the place how many A's drink and drive under whatever circumstances, with their kids in the car, or to the bar all the time, etc. Im going to assume this is driving around town in a neighborhood etc. Let me be clear to say that their only good fortune over my husband is they haven't gotten caught, and certainly not because they haven't deserved to. And the judging on that one is actually one of the reasons why my husband hates a lot of AA groups. They beat their wives, their kids, don't put food on the table or gas in the car, deadbeats in every single way... and yet they judge him for DUI?
And frankly, every single time he's gotten caught, he's gone into some sort of treatment.... Was he ready? Not until 12 years ago. And the kids... they are slowly recalibrating a lot of things right now about why I am the way I am at times. Remember, it's been 12 years, and 10 of those were really solid ones. That's not nothing. My youngest was barely 10. So they can think I am the one with the problems, but they will come around.
I find it very interesting, however, that they rarely call him for information about what's going on etc... like where he is, for how long, what happens next. AH wants them to call him, but they already know they get about half of it. There have been a lot of broken promises and so in a lot of ways, while he might be more fun, I am more reliable and they know it.
I can take credit however for the fact that he never just sat around and drank at home. Never. And I take blame that it is likely why he started drinking when he traveled. He would take a day or two and simply not be reachable. It literally felt like an affair every time....
So... we'll see how it goes. I already am headed to completely sunny weather with the plan for much more in February. And I also want to say, I might have options, but I am here to tell you that the issues of staying and leaving aren't so cut and dried for anyone. Ever. You can THINK you would absolutely do this or that if only.... But nope. It just doesn't work that way. Alcohol doesn't discriminate.
PS Already have the one on Letting Go. So yep... curious myself because I read a lot!!!! and he knows it.
It's not that your point of view doesn't have merit, but as you know nothing is quite as black and white after 25 years, especially when I've only pretty much focused on the "highlights/"
I do so well understand the "what about me" demanding attitude. Really well, in fact, although I agree far less so that he should be begging. I definitely want my feelings acknowledged, but I don't want begging nor do I want to be any more of an emotional hostage taker to him than he can be to me. Neither is good.
And as a complete aside: Where I am is very nice... it's just that weather is a constant shade of gray. Like it literally doesn't change outside from where you get up to when you go to bed. That be hard on the mood for me. But at least I recognize it. And tomorrow I will be somewhere far far warmer and sunny - so there's that.
Among family and close friends, his being in rehab is not a secret. However, he does have a business reputation and a very good one at that. He would like his private life kept private. I perfectly agree with this. What I agree less with, however, is that he would very much prefer no one discuss it as it pertains to his experience. Some of that I can absolutely support, but sometimes like above, it is just general info but he would find it invasive. He isn't all wrong and I am not all right.
I will admit something though... he once said to me that sometimes sharing his feelings with me has them landing in his face. And sometimes, I admit, that is likely more true that I'd like it to be. Im a sharer - he is not. I take full responsibility there and have worked very hard to not let my temper get the better of me because I too can toss a pretty mean slash across the room.
And about the DUIs, yes it's horrid and dangerous and we are so very very fortunate that the only people getting hurt is us. But let me say this: I read on here all over the place how many A's drink and drive under whatever circumstances, with their kids in the car, or to the bar all the time, etc. Im going to assume this is driving around town in a neighborhood etc. Let me be clear to say that their only good fortune over my husband is they haven't gotten caught, and certainly not because they haven't deserved to. And the judging on that one is actually one of the reasons why my husband hates a lot of AA groups. They beat their wives, their kids, don't put food on the table or gas in the car, deadbeats in every single way... and yet they judge him for DUI?
And frankly, every single time he's gotten caught, he's gone into some sort of treatment.... Was he ready? Not until 12 years ago. And the kids... they are slowly recalibrating a lot of things right now about why I am the way I am at times. Remember, it's been 12 years, and 10 of those were really solid ones. That's not nothing. My youngest was barely 10. So they can think I am the one with the problems, but they will come around.
I find it very interesting, however, that they rarely call him for information about what's going on etc... like where he is, for how long, what happens next. AH wants them to call him, but they already know they get about half of it. There have been a lot of broken promises and so in a lot of ways, while he might be more fun, I am more reliable and they know it.
I can take credit however for the fact that he never just sat around and drank at home. Never. And I take blame that it is likely why he started drinking when he traveled. He would take a day or two and simply not be reachable. It literally felt like an affair every time....
So... we'll see how it goes. I already am headed to completely sunny weather with the plan for much more in February. And I also want to say, I might have options, but I am here to tell you that the issues of staying and leaving aren't so cut and dried for anyone. Ever. You can THINK you would absolutely do this or that if only.... But nope. It just doesn't work that way. Alcohol doesn't discriminate.
PS Already have the one on Letting Go. So yep... curious myself because I read a lot!!!! and he knows it.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
LakeDays......I am comfortable in saying that you should do what you want to do in exactly the way you want to do it. When we get to the bottom of it...isn't that what everyone ends up doing, anyway...LOL! We take in information...process it through our own filters....spit out what we deem to be of bad....and, retain what WE deem to be useful.
I get the feeling that you are needing a place to vent. Validation that your feelings are valid. To blow off steam...to put to words your frustrations and fears....and hopes and dreams..... TO Be Heard.
I had to smile when you spoke of your "temper" and "tossing a pretty mean slash across the room". I am guessing that you have a pretty tough protective coat of armour that you wear into battle!!
We all develop protections to buffer ourselves from whatever conditions the environment presents. Sort of like the polar bears have developed thick white coats and layers of fat to protect themselves from their elements. Survival....sigh.....
It is ok to ventilate....in any safe place you can. Necessary, in my opinion!
(just let people know that is what is going on....because, that makes it clear (to them) that it is all you are asking for).
dandylion
I get the feeling that you are needing a place to vent. Validation that your feelings are valid. To blow off steam...to put to words your frustrations and fears....and hopes and dreams..... TO Be Heard.
I had to smile when you spoke of your "temper" and "tossing a pretty mean slash across the room". I am guessing that you have a pretty tough protective coat of armour that you wear into battle!!
We all develop protections to buffer ourselves from whatever conditions the environment presents. Sort of like the polar bears have developed thick white coats and layers of fat to protect themselves from their elements. Survival....sigh.....
It is ok to ventilate....in any safe place you can. Necessary, in my opinion!
(just let people know that is what is going on....because, that makes it clear (to them) that it is all you are asking for).
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Aggressive? I didn't mean to be. Your post did trigger me. Should have stepped away before replying and I apologize I did not. Nonetheless, I meant what I said.
The reason people come here is not because things are going great. Its because their lives have become unmanageable due to the effects of alcoholism via a loved one. Your title states "last Round"? You ask for advice. Yet you have spent this entire thread defending the actions of your husband and contradicting what you yourself have written about your situation.
You state:
"I am not finanically independent by any stretch of the imagination - so yes, I am scared. He gives me a monthly check and it surely doesn't cover something like rent". Then later "Cars are all in my name - for obvious reasons. I have my own credit cards, my own bank accounts, and my own investments in my name only".
"Honestly, the kids are grown. All the reasons that I thought were good enough to stay - their welfare - backfired. They mostly resent me. Still see their father as the "fun guy" and see me as the bitch I evolved into. It breaks my heart". Then…………."I am far less tolerable of being treated poorly, which is why I am fine accepting some of the kids' silent treatment"
"Never did my husband's arrest or court dates or even his upcoming travel to this rehab on the other side of the country was discussed. Giant flippin elephant in every room leaving me stressed and overly sensitive. We are not permitted to talk about it -- not with him and certainly not to one another. That's an invasion of his privacy (vs what I think is a perpetual obligation to protect his secrets)" then……"Among family and close friends, his being in rehab is not a secret. However, he does have a business reputation and a very good one at that. He would like his private life kept private. I perfectly agree with this. What I agree less with, however, is that he would very much prefer no one discuss it as it pertains to his experience". As a side note here, how about discussing it as to how it pertains to your and your children's experience in having to deal with it? Seems to me that's an elephant in the room as well.
"And the judging on that one is actually one of the reasons why my husband hates a lot of AA groups. They beat their wives, their kids, don't put food on the table or gas in the car, deadbeats in every single way... and yet they judge him for DUI"? How many AA meetings have you attended? There is Yin and Yang everywhere. There are people in AA that are there just because the Court said they have to be and go straight to the bar when they leave. There are more people who are there making an honest attempt to get and stay sober. I have yet to meet a wife beater though I am sure they are there its never come up in discussion. I don't "judge" your husband for having 6 DUI. What 6 DUI tells me is the level of the progression of your husband alcoholism. That he stopped for 10 years is awesome; however, relapses tend to come with a vengeance and looks like this one did as well. That is all. That he didn't have kids in the car or never killed someone just luck. Comparatively its all the same to me. Driving drunk is driving drunk.
"I can take credit however for the fact that he never just sat around and drank at home. Never". No. he can take credit that he never sat around and drank at home. "And I take blame that it is likely why he started drinking when he traveled. He would take a day or two and simply not be reachable. It literally felt like an affair every time…." No ma'am. You are not to blame it is not your fault. That is all on him.
Here's the deal Lakeside, this is not a competition to prove or compare who's alcoholic is worse that the other. One size fits one. My story has some comparables to yours - my RAH was also sober 10 years when he relapsed. My RAH has never had a DUI, yet he does have chronic pancreatitis and Type 1 diabetes due to alcoholism. He is also Bi-Polar which is managed well but it does rear its ugly head here and there. He has been sober now for 2 years. He still has personality traits that are common amongst alcoholics and addicts such as King baby syndrome. He can be very self absorbed. He is obsessive about some things. He isn't perfect - but we have evolved into a very happy couple. When I cam on here I was looking for a way to fix my alcoholic. What I ended up doing was fixing my very co-dependent enabling self. I'm not perfect (almost though wink, wink).
I am compassionate to your predicament. I also did not want to lose my husband when he relapsed. There are many great things about my RAH….I doubt they are written on here. If he did something egregious enough or relapsed again right here is where I will be writing a post. Yet, I don't ever write anything about the wonderful things that he does do. So please understand I do get that what is going on with your husband's relapse and recovery, and that it does not define all that he is and has been as a life partner, and father.
I think what I am trying to convey to you is that nothing changes if nothing changes. You have some valid issues within your marriage inclusive of a relapse and a boundary set which you have not enforced (I am also part of that club but have since learned). The intent as I read this is to try keep the marriage intact. There is a lot to learn here about how to deal with your situation.
Finally, "take what you need and leave the rest". An AA saying you are familiar with I am guessing. You cannot relay in one post 25 years of a life. I do not know every circumstance nor am I omnipotent to say what the best course of action is for every single person.
I certainly did not mean to offend or put you on the defensive. That is not helpful. I hope your trip goes well and am thankful you get to enjoy some warm weather. I am currently staring at cold, gray skies myself and have been for a week.
Best, Red
The reason people come here is not because things are going great. Its because their lives have become unmanageable due to the effects of alcoholism via a loved one. Your title states "last Round"? You ask for advice. Yet you have spent this entire thread defending the actions of your husband and contradicting what you yourself have written about your situation.
You state:
"I am not finanically independent by any stretch of the imagination - so yes, I am scared. He gives me a monthly check and it surely doesn't cover something like rent". Then later "Cars are all in my name - for obvious reasons. I have my own credit cards, my own bank accounts, and my own investments in my name only".
"Honestly, the kids are grown. All the reasons that I thought were good enough to stay - their welfare - backfired. They mostly resent me. Still see their father as the "fun guy" and see me as the bitch I evolved into. It breaks my heart". Then…………."I am far less tolerable of being treated poorly, which is why I am fine accepting some of the kids' silent treatment"
"Never did my husband's arrest or court dates or even his upcoming travel to this rehab on the other side of the country was discussed. Giant flippin elephant in every room leaving me stressed and overly sensitive. We are not permitted to talk about it -- not with him and certainly not to one another. That's an invasion of his privacy (vs what I think is a perpetual obligation to protect his secrets)" then……"Among family and close friends, his being in rehab is not a secret. However, he does have a business reputation and a very good one at that. He would like his private life kept private. I perfectly agree with this. What I agree less with, however, is that he would very much prefer no one discuss it as it pertains to his experience". As a side note here, how about discussing it as to how it pertains to your and your children's experience in having to deal with it? Seems to me that's an elephant in the room as well.
"And the judging on that one is actually one of the reasons why my husband hates a lot of AA groups. They beat their wives, their kids, don't put food on the table or gas in the car, deadbeats in every single way... and yet they judge him for DUI"? How many AA meetings have you attended? There is Yin and Yang everywhere. There are people in AA that are there just because the Court said they have to be and go straight to the bar when they leave. There are more people who are there making an honest attempt to get and stay sober. I have yet to meet a wife beater though I am sure they are there its never come up in discussion. I don't "judge" your husband for having 6 DUI. What 6 DUI tells me is the level of the progression of your husband alcoholism. That he stopped for 10 years is awesome; however, relapses tend to come with a vengeance and looks like this one did as well. That is all. That he didn't have kids in the car or never killed someone just luck. Comparatively its all the same to me. Driving drunk is driving drunk.
"I can take credit however for the fact that he never just sat around and drank at home. Never". No. he can take credit that he never sat around and drank at home. "And I take blame that it is likely why he started drinking when he traveled. He would take a day or two and simply not be reachable. It literally felt like an affair every time…." No ma'am. You are not to blame it is not your fault. That is all on him.
Here's the deal Lakeside, this is not a competition to prove or compare who's alcoholic is worse that the other. One size fits one. My story has some comparables to yours - my RAH was also sober 10 years when he relapsed. My RAH has never had a DUI, yet he does have chronic pancreatitis and Type 1 diabetes due to alcoholism. He is also Bi-Polar which is managed well but it does rear its ugly head here and there. He has been sober now for 2 years. He still has personality traits that are common amongst alcoholics and addicts such as King baby syndrome. He can be very self absorbed. He is obsessive about some things. He isn't perfect - but we have evolved into a very happy couple. When I cam on here I was looking for a way to fix my alcoholic. What I ended up doing was fixing my very co-dependent enabling self. I'm not perfect (almost though wink, wink).
I am compassionate to your predicament. I also did not want to lose my husband when he relapsed. There are many great things about my RAH….I doubt they are written on here. If he did something egregious enough or relapsed again right here is where I will be writing a post. Yet, I don't ever write anything about the wonderful things that he does do. So please understand I do get that what is going on with your husband's relapse and recovery, and that it does not define all that he is and has been as a life partner, and father.
I think what I am trying to convey to you is that nothing changes if nothing changes. You have some valid issues within your marriage inclusive of a relapse and a boundary set which you have not enforced (I am also part of that club but have since learned). The intent as I read this is to try keep the marriage intact. There is a lot to learn here about how to deal with your situation.
Finally, "take what you need and leave the rest". An AA saying you are familiar with I am guessing. You cannot relay in one post 25 years of a life. I do not know every circumstance nor am I omnipotent to say what the best course of action is for every single person.
I certainly did not mean to offend or put you on the defensive. That is not helpful. I hope your trip goes well and am thankful you get to enjoy some warm weather. I am currently staring at cold, gray skies myself and have been for a week.
Best, Red
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: uk
Posts: 368
I think dandylion said it very well. It looked from your post that perhaps you were looking for advice and so redatlanta offered her take. I didn't get an aggressive vibe from it and I am sure she didn't intend one.
With regards to the DUI, my partner has several, to the point of losing his license so I speak as someone in a similar position as you. When he went to AA first, he also felt judged for them initially and didn't think they were that serious. But as he's got more into the program, he sees it differently. People don't judge DUIs in the condemnatory sense that I think you are referring to, but they do highlight them as being an extremely dangerous consequence of drinking. Part of recovery is admitting faults and recognising havoc caused. So its less judging and more raising awareness of just how bad drinking while driving is.
And it is bad (remember, my partner has them too and I mean this with love). Whether there are children or passengers in the car or not, drunk driving is extremely dangerous to all other road users and could so easily become a manslaughter charge.
For my partner, he's now gone from seeing it as irritating that he got caught to being deeply ashamed of it and that's helping him stay sober. That's why AA members perhaps might seem to be judging, in reality it's about beinging home the reality of the danger drinking causes to others.
All that said, I get the need to vent and please do carry on posting here. There's always someone here who's gone through something similar who can offer support and advuce, when needed. :-)
With regards to the DUI, my partner has several, to the point of losing his license so I speak as someone in a similar position as you. When he went to AA first, he also felt judged for them initially and didn't think they were that serious. But as he's got more into the program, he sees it differently. People don't judge DUIs in the condemnatory sense that I think you are referring to, but they do highlight them as being an extremely dangerous consequence of drinking. Part of recovery is admitting faults and recognising havoc caused. So its less judging and more raising awareness of just how bad drinking while driving is.
And it is bad (remember, my partner has them too and I mean this with love). Whether there are children or passengers in the car or not, drunk driving is extremely dangerous to all other road users and could so easily become a manslaughter charge.
For my partner, he's now gone from seeing it as irritating that he got caught to being deeply ashamed of it and that's helping him stay sober. That's why AA members perhaps might seem to be judging, in reality it's about beinging home the reality of the danger drinking causes to others.
All that said, I get the need to vent and please do carry on posting here. There's always someone here who's gone through something similar who can offer support and advuce, when needed. :-)
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 10
What are asked for are more in line with hearing OTHER people's experiences of "I never changed anybody with my words." which is another thread but I didn't want to hijack it as the good post and others. But the system won't let me link the thread until I have 15 posts (just going to say for the moderators, that imo it seems fairly excessive, especially for SR specific links.
Anyway.. I though I was clearer about the kind of advice and insight I was looking for. Because this is where I need to get, want to be. I want to feel confident that I've said it as well as I can, and if they don't listen, fine and if they ask more questions, fine. BUt I need to be done making sure people have the nuanced thought process for best understanding. Part of the reason why I likely remain in limbo.
Anyway... those stories of HOW you came to learn telling someone something once is what I need to get... and this is something I had hoped to hear more of. I don't need people to tell me to stay or leave. I look at friend's marriages with a lot less going for them than us, to be honest, and I can't understand why they stay together - especially and particularly the ones with no kids.
So we'll see what happens tomorrow. Way too long a day today (yesterday?) and I will be glad to sleep late.. that is if I can at all. I just don't want to walk into the room all anxious and have all that is the front of my mind to come spilling out in the first 10 minutes! I want to be able to listen and yet, I need to find out if he has been fully honest and that is first and foremost. Because if he has not laid all of it completely on the table, I won't need a lot more days here. At the same time, I don't want to trigger his defenses either... it will become an exercise is deflection meant to talk less about the actual issues and more about how those issues are shared - While I don't know what to expect, I do expect something because since this happened he's been really silent. So worse case, I will use the time to iron out some temporary details of a separation and be glad he's got someone to talk to that isn't going to jump a bandwagon of let's point the finger at her because that's always worked so well in the past.
And truly, yes I want to vent some because honestly, where else can you (more or less). Sometimes it does feel good to just get it off your head and throw it out into the universe. Sure beats seeing the pity on the faces of friends.. who tend to take three steps backing away.
But I do take nuggets, and mostly I tuck the rest away. Iignore it, but more like file it away.
And yes... DUI's are very shameful, and do not think for one minute I minimize or excuse my husband's behavior in the least. It's the biggest part of the problem!! It is Russian Roulette and attempted murder all rolled into one. Believe me, I get it... Has anyone seen the European drunk driving anniversary campaign going around on Facebook? It made me physically ill.. so believe me, I get it.
Despite that I didn't get many helpful go to phrases to use when I get nervous and begin to ramble, it did settle my thinking somewhat... maybe that alone is something to stop me from repeating myself or thinking I've got to say whatever it is I need to say perfectly in order to be validated, let alone giving myself permission to be hurt, sad and a whole range of complicated emotions. Then again, it would likely be best if I even know what they all are!
When talking to a friend the other day about something totally unrelated, I thought how I so easily stay on point with other issues, and yet remain so clouded in my own life. I said.. well, I'm just a realist.... living in my own denail.
Thinking it needs needlepointed on a pillow.
Anyway.. I though I was clearer about the kind of advice and insight I was looking for. Because this is where I need to get, want to be. I want to feel confident that I've said it as well as I can, and if they don't listen, fine and if they ask more questions, fine. BUt I need to be done making sure people have the nuanced thought process for best understanding. Part of the reason why I likely remain in limbo.
Anyway... those stories of HOW you came to learn telling someone something once is what I need to get... and this is something I had hoped to hear more of. I don't need people to tell me to stay or leave. I look at friend's marriages with a lot less going for them than us, to be honest, and I can't understand why they stay together - especially and particularly the ones with no kids.
So we'll see what happens tomorrow. Way too long a day today (yesterday?) and I will be glad to sleep late.. that is if I can at all. I just don't want to walk into the room all anxious and have all that is the front of my mind to come spilling out in the first 10 minutes! I want to be able to listen and yet, I need to find out if he has been fully honest and that is first and foremost. Because if he has not laid all of it completely on the table, I won't need a lot more days here. At the same time, I don't want to trigger his defenses either... it will become an exercise is deflection meant to talk less about the actual issues and more about how those issues are shared - While I don't know what to expect, I do expect something because since this happened he's been really silent. So worse case, I will use the time to iron out some temporary details of a separation and be glad he's got someone to talk to that isn't going to jump a bandwagon of let's point the finger at her because that's always worked so well in the past.
And truly, yes I want to vent some because honestly, where else can you (more or less). Sometimes it does feel good to just get it off your head and throw it out into the universe. Sure beats seeing the pity on the faces of friends.. who tend to take three steps backing away.
But I do take nuggets, and mostly I tuck the rest away. Iignore it, but more like file it away.
And yes... DUI's are very shameful, and do not think for one minute I minimize or excuse my husband's behavior in the least. It's the biggest part of the problem!! It is Russian Roulette and attempted murder all rolled into one. Believe me, I get it... Has anyone seen the European drunk driving anniversary campaign going around on Facebook? It made me physically ill.. so believe me, I get it.
Despite that I didn't get many helpful go to phrases to use when I get nervous and begin to ramble, it did settle my thinking somewhat... maybe that alone is something to stop me from repeating myself or thinking I've got to say whatever it is I need to say perfectly in order to be validated, let alone giving myself permission to be hurt, sad and a whole range of complicated emotions. Then again, it would likely be best if I even know what they all are!
When talking to a friend the other day about something totally unrelated, I thought how I so easily stay on point with other issues, and yet remain so clouded in my own life. I said.. well, I'm just a realist.... living in my own denail.
Thinking it needs needlepointed on a pillow.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Ok I got it. Here is how I would handle it.
I would make a written list of the things that I want to say. I wouldn't be overly concerned about being tactical as far as him getting defensive. That is his nature and that of most Alcoholics. If you continue to try and manage his responses you will not ever be able to say what YOU feel and that is also a method to manipulate someone into NOT saying what they really mean.
I would use this list when I enter into any discussions with him. I wouldn't wing it because it sounds like he is very able to shut you down and shut you out. I probably would not be willing to have these talks with him without a counselor present to mediate.
My list would pertain to the present and how I am feeling today rather than spending hours (days) about the past.
What is very important in these kinds of talks is the word "I". Instead of discussing him, his actions, his feelings, and what he has done the focus should be on you when you speak. "I am not sure i want to continue in this marriage". "I have spent years dealing with your alcoholism and your problems and this is what it has done to me". "I am no longer wiling to live like this" "I am unappreciative that in this partnership I am a silent partner". "I have chosen to live with and deal with your alcoholism for 25 years and I don't want to anymore" . "I" is very powerful because its hard to argue with. Don't be lead down a path of him reverting the discussion to himself. Key phrases to use when you feel he is pointing the finger at you - "Stop. Your choices in life aren't my fault I don't have that kind of power over you. If I did you we wouldn't be here". "I can only control myself an no one else". and my favorite "I am not talking about you, I'm talking about me".
If you get confused or feel like the conversation is spiraling simply stop. You can leave. You can say you are upset and that the conversation is not productive.
I would make a written list of the things that I want to say. I wouldn't be overly concerned about being tactical as far as him getting defensive. That is his nature and that of most Alcoholics. If you continue to try and manage his responses you will not ever be able to say what YOU feel and that is also a method to manipulate someone into NOT saying what they really mean.
I would use this list when I enter into any discussions with him. I wouldn't wing it because it sounds like he is very able to shut you down and shut you out. I probably would not be willing to have these talks with him without a counselor present to mediate.
My list would pertain to the present and how I am feeling today rather than spending hours (days) about the past.
What is very important in these kinds of talks is the word "I". Instead of discussing him, his actions, his feelings, and what he has done the focus should be on you when you speak. "I am not sure i want to continue in this marriage". "I have spent years dealing with your alcoholism and your problems and this is what it has done to me". "I am no longer wiling to live like this" "I am unappreciative that in this partnership I am a silent partner". "I have chosen to live with and deal with your alcoholism for 25 years and I don't want to anymore" . "I" is very powerful because its hard to argue with. Don't be lead down a path of him reverting the discussion to himself. Key phrases to use when you feel he is pointing the finger at you - "Stop. Your choices in life aren't my fault I don't have that kind of power over you. If I did you we wouldn't be here". "I can only control myself an no one else". and my favorite "I am not talking about you, I'm talking about me".
If you get confused or feel like the conversation is spiraling simply stop. You can leave. You can say you are upset and that the conversation is not productive.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
LakeDays.....I just want to say that I concur with redatlanta's suggestions. I can't add much more...because I couldn't have said it any better.
Just stick to your own truth. Your thoughts and feelings are just as important as anyone else on this planet.
good luck.
dandylion
Just stick to your own truth. Your thoughts and feelings are just as important as anyone else on this planet.
good luck.
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
With 6 DUI's it is the norm nationwide to lose driving priveleges for life and often get a prison term as well. If he is convicted it will be hard to keep this secret in his business world... Is this a concern that will impact you?
I am in the criminal justice system and see so many people warehoused for many years after killing someone on the highway impaired. It is devastating to all families who both lose loved ones... So very sad and preventable. A blessing he has not experienced this tragedy personally.
Having once loved a chronic relapser my heart goes out to you. I finally had a "final round" and he continues to relapse and get abstinent. He is in a program now... His 10th he thinks but can't be sure there have been so many.
My ex is simply not relationship material as a chronic relapser... For me anyway. I must have peace and serenity rather than the chaos he brings with regularity.
I am in the criminal justice system and see so many people warehoused for many years after killing someone on the highway impaired. It is devastating to all families who both lose loved ones... So very sad and preventable. A blessing he has not experienced this tragedy personally.
Having once loved a chronic relapser my heart goes out to you. I finally had a "final round" and he continues to relapse and get abstinent. He is in a program now... His 10th he thinks but can't be sure there have been so many.
My ex is simply not relationship material as a chronic relapser... For me anyway. I must have peace and serenity rather than the chaos he brings with regularity.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 10
Just a point to the above... most states qualify to a 10 year look back, some are five. Some are lifetime... so there is no national "norm." So you'd be wrong in your assumptions of penalty. Just saying. Not disagreeing with the effects drunk driving have on mortality, but definitely on your assumptions of legal ramifications nationally.
But yeah... wishing dandylion's post had been something I could have thought about more last week when I knew I was coming. As it was, I went into the meeting today and had none of those in my aresnol. Plus, the counselor had on his board these signs of "relapse"; he tried to give me some warning signs to look for and I was like, it's not my job to look for signs and be vigilant to his recovery as that just leave me crazier. And giving families a check list seems a self-fulfilling prophecy if you ask me.
Not sure I will see him at all tomorrow, but on Christmas they will allow him to leave from 1-5. We go back to talk to the therapist on Friday, and maybe he has a better picture now and may be more prepared for "individual" advice rather than textbook 101. Kinda let down but afterwards H told me this guy is definitely not the guy he feels most comfortable with. Maybe too young or not enough experience...not sure, but definitely not anything close to what I had hoped this would be about.
But yeah... wishing dandylion's post had been something I could have thought about more last week when I knew I was coming. As it was, I went into the meeting today and had none of those in my aresnol. Plus, the counselor had on his board these signs of "relapse"; he tried to give me some warning signs to look for and I was like, it's not my job to look for signs and be vigilant to his recovery as that just leave me crazier. And giving families a check list seems a self-fulfilling prophecy if you ask me.
Not sure I will see him at all tomorrow, but on Christmas they will allow him to leave from 1-5. We go back to talk to the therapist on Friday, and maybe he has a better picture now and may be more prepared for "individual" advice rather than textbook 101. Kinda let down but afterwards H told me this guy is definitely not the guy he feels most comfortable with. Maybe too young or not enough experience...not sure, but definitely not anything close to what I had hoped this would be about.
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