I'm stuck still trying to "figure it out"
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 524
I'm stuck still trying to "figure it out"
I can’t seem to stop trying to “figure things out” – I read so many posts from people that wonder if there is connection between this and that – and then if there is, does that mean something (A and Narc.. A and BP A and abusive) and the responses, well the posts are great for me, but the replies are good and there is always a focus and a “bringing back” if you will about how it is irrelevant anyway. And that thinking about the maybe’s and the “research” has nothing to do with our own recovery.
And I can’t wrap my head around that at all.
Not at all.
I’m in counseling and it’s been helpful but I do keep bringing myself back to WHY did I fall for this, how did all of this get passed me. Why Why Why. What does it say about me. I really feel like if I could just figure it out and it could make sense, I would be better off. And why doesn’t it have something to do with our recovery? Doesn’t that help put the pieces together for healing?
My theory last week (once I explained that even my friendships were like love relationships, I had “a” BFF and we were “together” until there was falling out of some kind) – so we started discussing “intensity” and I thought – I must have been in love with feeling in love and THAT’S how I got here. But then it doesn’t really help. When I learned that mine was an Alcoholic AND an abuser, and that the alcohol didn’t cause the abuse, that did something for me for the short term, but the benefits to that disappeared and then I go back to the beginning to try to figure it out.
I kind of end up at the same empty place after every theory I research….
And I can’t wrap my head around that at all.
Not at all.
I’m in counseling and it’s been helpful but I do keep bringing myself back to WHY did I fall for this, how did all of this get passed me. Why Why Why. What does it say about me. I really feel like if I could just figure it out and it could make sense, I would be better off. And why doesn’t it have something to do with our recovery? Doesn’t that help put the pieces together for healing?
My theory last week (once I explained that even my friendships were like love relationships, I had “a” BFF and we were “together” until there was falling out of some kind) – so we started discussing “intensity” and I thought – I must have been in love with feeling in love and THAT’S how I got here. But then it doesn’t really help. When I learned that mine was an Alcoholic AND an abuser, and that the alcohol didn’t cause the abuse, that did something for me for the short term, but the benefits to that disappeared and then I go back to the beginning to try to figure it out.
I kind of end up at the same empty place after every theory I research….
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
There is no exact answer for you. 2+2=4 doesn't really apply here. There are thousands of variables and genetics that come into play. You will not be able to out think alcoholism, abuse or crazy thinking. What role do you play in your relationships? Why did you choose them? Stay in them? What led you to those choices/values/behaviors? Usually childhood stuff, some genetic stuff, some life experiences stuff.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
I am (re)learning that there is a gap between understanding and acceptance. I am good at the intellectual side of things - understanding why and how and what connects where and what it means.
When all of that is said and done, moving forward (accepting) requires feeling our way through the things that happened to us, the choices we made, all the stuff that wasn't fair or wasn't right. And yeah. I seem to hate that part.
Many of us are more comfortable with putting the pieces together than with allowing ourselves to FEEL the bigger picture. In my opinion, in order to heal, we need to be able to embrace both, and also to be willing to accept that there are some things we will never understand or figure out.
When all of that is said and done, moving forward (accepting) requires feeling our way through the things that happened to us, the choices we made, all the stuff that wasn't fair or wasn't right. And yeah. I seem to hate that part.
Many of us are more comfortable with putting the pieces together than with allowing ourselves to FEEL the bigger picture. In my opinion, in order to heal, we need to be able to embrace both, and also to be willing to accept that there are some things we will never understand or figure out.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
It's a lot more worthwhile trying to figure yourself out than to figure someone else out. AS LONG AS you don't put off working a program of recovery until you've figured it all out.
One of the cool things about AA and Al-Anon is that you really don't HAVE to understand where you went wrong in order to benefit from the program. It simply "works" for most people, from all kinds of backgrounds, who made choices or became the way they did as a result of all kinds of factors and influences.
Working a good program usually does wind up giving people quite a bit of insight into their own behavior, though.
One of the cool things about AA and Al-Anon is that you really don't HAVE to understand where you went wrong in order to benefit from the program. It simply "works" for most people, from all kinds of backgrounds, who made choices or became the way they did as a result of all kinds of factors and influences.
Working a good program usually does wind up giving people quite a bit of insight into their own behavior, though.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
I think when it's said that "It doesn't really matter why" it's meant - why he does what he does. Of course it's a useful exercise to try to figure out your own "whys."
Thing is, there needs to be some triage in the meantime. Spending ten years (or however long) in an abusive relationship whilst trying to uncover your own "whys" is not a good use of a life, IMO. Your own whys can be figured out at a safe distance.
Life is challenging and we don't get to decide how others act, only how we react to them. Knowing why is an advanced technique. Avoiding the tidal wave in the meantime is pretty important.
Thing is, there needs to be some triage in the meantime. Spending ten years (or however long) in an abusive relationship whilst trying to uncover your own "whys" is not a good use of a life, IMO. Your own whys can be figured out at a safe distance.
Life is challenging and we don't get to decide how others act, only how we react to them. Knowing why is an advanced technique. Avoiding the tidal wave in the meantime is pretty important.
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: uk
Posts: 368
I had a similar experience to you in that I needed to understand why I am the way I am. I think I needed to realise where all the dysfunction in my life came from and give it a name (abused parents with unresolved issues with no clue what they were doing when raising their own children or building their own relationship. Both raging codependants. Result, me, my need to please, my willingness to accept unacceptable behaviour etc.)
But it wasn't to explain it away. For me, having a working theory allowed me to forgive myself for my own failings, which then freed me to accept them and work on changing the attitudes and behaviour that lead me to them. The understanding is not the solution, but it can free you to.find one.
With regards to dysfunction in others, it's had a similar effect. I am better able to forgive the person but also more able to call them out when I need to because I understand better.
Maybe it's not that having a theory is the problem, maybe it's what you do with it once you know? How do you feel when you have an explanation? Perhaps something worth exploring a bit.
X
On
But it wasn't to explain it away. For me, having a working theory allowed me to forgive myself for my own failings, which then freed me to accept them and work on changing the attitudes and behaviour that lead me to them. The understanding is not the solution, but it can free you to.find one.
With regards to dysfunction in others, it's had a similar effect. I am better able to forgive the person but also more able to call them out when I need to because I understand better.
Maybe it's not that having a theory is the problem, maybe it's what you do with it once you know? How do you feel when you have an explanation? Perhaps something worth exploring a bit.
X
On
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Olney, MD
Posts: 268
I totally get how you feel. I am extremely rational person. So much that RAH calls me "Bones" from the TV show. Always asking myself why did this happen? The truth of the matter is that alcoholism and abuse are not things you can figure out because fundamentally they just don't make any sense. As my sponsor said, "there's a reason "figure it all out" is not one of the slogans LOL. I am in DV counselling (along with trauma therapy) at our local DV place and for some of us, asking the question "why" is wondering what we did to deserve this. The truth is that we did NOTHING to deserve it.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Sometimes you have to face that there is no huge answer to the why. When my X said he drinks...because he is bored....it floored me. Here I was trying to figure out what was wrong with me, what was wrong with him, when in reality, he is a selfish, alcoholic, a$$.
LET THE WHY GO, and accept what is.
LET THE WHY GO, and accept what is.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
Here's a theory: If you can understand it you can control it. Thing is, even if you did understand it you couldn't control it. And understanding just doesn't make a difference. Trying to figure someone out is another way of keeping them close. Alanon addresses issues like this and I recommend it, saved my sanity. In the end it is what it is. In terms of yourself, recovery in Alanon can help ensure you don't pick the same person next time. The Serenity Prayer says it best:
God, grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change
To change the things I can
And the wisdom to know the difference.
God, grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change
To change the things I can
And the wisdom to know the difference.
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 524
I agree with everyone and appreciate everyones response. I don't know how, that's the problem. I am open to it, if it's not productive I don't have to do it, but I don't know how to stop it or turn the train around.
Maybe I have been trying to figure it out for so long, I don't know any other way.
I said in counseling last week - Ok so what I do now? How do I get fixed? I'm not nearly as raw as I was - I don't feel as scary as I did.. I know there is much work to be done and I just don't know what I am supposed to be doing now. And I feel like I say that alot too...
Maybe I have been trying to figure it out for so long, I don't know any other way.
I said in counseling last week - Ok so what I do now? How do I get fixed? I'm not nearly as raw as I was - I don't feel as scary as I did.. I know there is much work to be done and I just don't know what I am supposed to be doing now. And I feel like I say that alot too...
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 524
I saw you posted Anvil and I got scared lol
Both. I am trying to figure out how "this" happened. I want to know what was it about him. what was it about me. I go over the whole 7 years. I try to pin point when and how and where and why.
Both. I am trying to figure out how "this" happened. I want to know what was it about him. what was it about me. I go over the whole 7 years. I try to pin point when and how and where and why.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
meggem....maybe it would help (us) a bit more if you could form your question(s) in more specifics. For example, are you asking about alcoholic behaviors or abusive behaviors. Are you asking about why you stayed...or, perhaps why you didn't recognize red flags....
(These are just examples...not to put words in your mouth ).
dandylion
(These are just examples...not to put words in your mouth ).
dandylion
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
let's make your job a whole lot easier.....FORGET ABOUT FIGURING HIM OUT. that is not your job and that's not where your answers lie.
you might be dis appointed that there is no ONE big SECRET that will unlock everything. we aren't car engines, it's not a matter of switching out one faulty plug and WAH LAH, vroom vroom. we are complex ever changing beings and while we might have some recurrent underlying themes (like claustrophobia or fear of abandonment) we also adapt to each and every situation.
the beauty i found in working the steps was that by writing so much out, getting down on paper, just like any good story, i culd then begin to figure out the PLOT, the theme, the characters. i could see how for the protagonist (me) growing up an only child of a single working mother in an extended family and a place in time where drinking was ubiquitous, approved, accepted could have many different impacts. how not having a father in the picture could play a role or two. how being fairly well off in a town that wasn't very well off created friction. how early it was she felt different, like an outside, loner, loser, never good enough. how right at the age of 12 was when so many things changed - that was when her gramma, her mother's mother, passed away. and nothing was ever the same. and how virtually from that day forward she felt like she was an inconvenience, in the way, an obligation.
etc etc etc........
by you focusing just on HIM and on THIS, you are missing the big picture. that's like watching JUST the bar scene in the original star wars and trying to figure out what the heck is going on!
what's going on with you? ain't about him. he is merely a physical manifestation of something inside you. a need, a fear, a hope, an idea.
you might be dis appointed that there is no ONE big SECRET that will unlock everything. we aren't car engines, it's not a matter of switching out one faulty plug and WAH LAH, vroom vroom. we are complex ever changing beings and while we might have some recurrent underlying themes (like claustrophobia or fear of abandonment) we also adapt to each and every situation.
the beauty i found in working the steps was that by writing so much out, getting down on paper, just like any good story, i culd then begin to figure out the PLOT, the theme, the characters. i could see how for the protagonist (me) growing up an only child of a single working mother in an extended family and a place in time where drinking was ubiquitous, approved, accepted could have many different impacts. how not having a father in the picture could play a role or two. how being fairly well off in a town that wasn't very well off created friction. how early it was she felt different, like an outside, loner, loser, never good enough. how right at the age of 12 was when so many things changed - that was when her gramma, her mother's mother, passed away. and nothing was ever the same. and how virtually from that day forward she felt like she was an inconvenience, in the way, an obligation.
etc etc etc........
by you focusing just on HIM and on THIS, you are missing the big picture. that's like watching JUST the bar scene in the original star wars and trying to figure out what the heck is going on!
what's going on with you? ain't about him. he is merely a physical manifestation of something inside you. a need, a fear, a hope, an idea.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
Meggem,
I have been where you are now, I'm pretty sure many here have also been there/done that. I think that is what brings so many people to forums. We have questions, and we just constantly look for answers. We want answers that make sense to us. To me, it was like when I learned I had cancer, I was able to deal with it, because I had a name for it. Maybe that's a bad analogy, but it is what I experienced. I made myself crazy with the what if's, but I was stuck there for so long, I didn't know how to shut my head up. I had been questioning my every move for over 20 years, I was walking on eggshells for just as long. So, I was also always trying to be one step ahead of him in anticipating his responses to anything I said and did.
Guess what, I developed PTSD. Even after I was divorced, I continued searching and researching over and over. Perhaps I even found the answer early this year, BPD. I'm not sure. But, all of a sudden I stopped searching. All those years looking for an answer for me, meant nothing. There were no answers except for one. He wasn't going to change for me, he was who he was. He was abusive, and an alcoholic. The "why", didn't matter because he didn't want to change. I can even have compassion for him now, as long as I do not see him or hear from him.
I was married for over 27 years, divorced for 4. It's only this last year that I am able to recognize my triggers, when they come up and hit me in the face. This really is my worst year yet, but it's also my best year yet. I gave up trying to figure out the "why", I am looking at things as to how they are and to why they affect me so much, and I am learning to let things go, perhaps, not all there yet, but working on it.
I wanted you to know that this is a normal thing that happens after being in an abusive relationship, and that you are not alone.
((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))
amy
I have been where you are now, I'm pretty sure many here have also been there/done that. I think that is what brings so many people to forums. We have questions, and we just constantly look for answers. We want answers that make sense to us. To me, it was like when I learned I had cancer, I was able to deal with it, because I had a name for it. Maybe that's a bad analogy, but it is what I experienced. I made myself crazy with the what if's, but I was stuck there for so long, I didn't know how to shut my head up. I had been questioning my every move for over 20 years, I was walking on eggshells for just as long. So, I was also always trying to be one step ahead of him in anticipating his responses to anything I said and did.
Guess what, I developed PTSD. Even after I was divorced, I continued searching and researching over and over. Perhaps I even found the answer early this year, BPD. I'm not sure. But, all of a sudden I stopped searching. All those years looking for an answer for me, meant nothing. There were no answers except for one. He wasn't going to change for me, he was who he was. He was abusive, and an alcoholic. The "why", didn't matter because he didn't want to change. I can even have compassion for him now, as long as I do not see him or hear from him.
I was married for over 27 years, divorced for 4. It's only this last year that I am able to recognize my triggers, when they come up and hit me in the face. This really is my worst year yet, but it's also my best year yet. I gave up trying to figure out the "why", I am looking at things as to how they are and to why they affect me so much, and I am learning to let things go, perhaps, not all there yet, but working on it.
I wanted you to know that this is a normal thing that happens after being in an abusive relationship, and that you are not alone.
((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))
amy
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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Posts: 3,178
Meg,
I think I got a little mentally overtaxed working at Step 4. I tied a lot of issues together - particularly once I realized I was ACOA - and so was RAH. I drew a real ugly family tree full of undiagnosed mental illness representing my FOO. To be honest I have not really gone back to review some of that yet as it was awful to see on paper.
I did not draw a FOO family tree for my RAH. Though I could probably sketch it out without asking too many questions. It just isn't mine to answer for.
So he has alcoholism ornaments on his tree. I've got mental illness lights. Each of these impacts future generations with learned behaviors. It really does go back. How far are you going to play detective? I'm not really sure if you can pinpoint all of it.
But I can totally see how this one fellow - my RAH - was my soulmate in a lot of twisted ways. And I was brought up to be a caregiver for a troubled soul. Now when the poor guy refers to me as his soul mate I cringe!
This might sound counter-intuitive, but maybe you need a break. I've taken a few breaks from all of this figuring things out and recovery. There's been a few trips and a few weekends I did not focus on recovery... When I came back to it, I had new directions and new purpose. And a few times my head had mused away and accepted things unconsciously.
Peace and hugs Meg!
I think I got a little mentally overtaxed working at Step 4. I tied a lot of issues together - particularly once I realized I was ACOA - and so was RAH. I drew a real ugly family tree full of undiagnosed mental illness representing my FOO. To be honest I have not really gone back to review some of that yet as it was awful to see on paper.
I did not draw a FOO family tree for my RAH. Though I could probably sketch it out without asking too many questions. It just isn't mine to answer for.
So he has alcoholism ornaments on his tree. I've got mental illness lights. Each of these impacts future generations with learned behaviors. It really does go back. How far are you going to play detective? I'm not really sure if you can pinpoint all of it.
But I can totally see how this one fellow - my RAH - was my soulmate in a lot of twisted ways. And I was brought up to be a caregiver for a troubled soul. Now when the poor guy refers to me as his soul mate I cringe!
This might sound counter-intuitive, but maybe you need a break. I've taken a few breaks from all of this figuring things out and recovery. There's been a few trips and a few weekends I did not focus on recovery... When I came back to it, I had new directions and new purpose. And a few times my head had mused away and accepted things unconsciously.
Peace and hugs Meg!
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 524
Well I had just turned 30 when I realized I did not have to tolerate bad behavior (the guy before) I had THE biggest epiphany of my life thus far. I will never forget it. I was out in my driveway at night and it just hit me. Meg, you don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do and it’s ok. Let him (them) manage their own feelings. It is not your responsibility. The only thing you are responsible for, is you. and how you react. That’s it. That concept ran through my veins and you couldn’t have gotten it out of me if you tried. I was reborn.
It was magical and so profound. I took inventory of my life. I looked at the people in my life and thought to myself – do you add to my spiritual bank account or do you withdraw from it. And if you do, I need to remove you from my life. The year I turned 30 brought so much wisdom and spiritual health for me. I was ready to live alone if I had to. I was ok with that. I was fine. I knew I was going to be fine. I had plans. I made a list of things *I* was going to do that I wasn’t able to/couldn’t do/etc. It was time for me now. My boundaries were good, I knew where I ended and the other person began, I was detaching with love from a few people and felt like I had a fresh start. These few people that I chose to detach with love from fought me (manipulated guilted etc) but it was ok, because those feelings belonged to them, not me.
I knew what I wanted in a companion/friend/partner/man if I ever got there again. And if I didn’t that was fine too. I had also resigned myself to the fact that I would probably not have kids (ripe old age of ‘30’) and I was at peace with that as well. It is what it is. Let go and Let God.
Along came him. Several months later. I had no intentions but here he was. And he had the qualities I was looking for. I thought “God” had put me through all of that turmoil to bring me “here.” Our song was “god blessed the broken road”. It was perfect. I could not WAIT for our first argument because he was so mature and put together and responsible (last guy was opposite) wow what would it be like to have an adult disagreement????
It just seemed so normal and regular. Yes, we drank together but I thought we were “dating drinking” I didn’t realize we were “real life drinking” – does that make sense to anyone?
I am so smart. I have always loved self help, evolving, improving, I read Co-No More at 19. I was always the wise one among my friends, always the one with the best advice.
How on EARTH did I end up marrying an abusive raging alcoholic? HOW? HOW did I miss all of this especially with my driveway epiphany?!?!?!
The hell started a year later, and here I am now with terrible stories to share. And nothing in my life matches who I was before I met him and how precious that gift was. That gift to myself. It’s gone.
Ok fine my father was an A but he never raised his voice, hell he isn’t even a big talker. My mother chased him. Always. I will never chase a man. I learned that early on.
8 years later.
That is what I just don’t understand. And I feel like I need to understand.
Maybe I am disappointed in myself. Maybe I don’t forgive myself. Maybe it’s not about him but me. That moment in the driveway and the months following is the most valuable experience I ever had in my LIFE and I gave it away. That was the essence of me and I just handed it over.
I think I feel like a fraud or something. Ashamed? I don’t know.
It was magical and so profound. I took inventory of my life. I looked at the people in my life and thought to myself – do you add to my spiritual bank account or do you withdraw from it. And if you do, I need to remove you from my life. The year I turned 30 brought so much wisdom and spiritual health for me. I was ready to live alone if I had to. I was ok with that. I was fine. I knew I was going to be fine. I had plans. I made a list of things *I* was going to do that I wasn’t able to/couldn’t do/etc. It was time for me now. My boundaries were good, I knew where I ended and the other person began, I was detaching with love from a few people and felt like I had a fresh start. These few people that I chose to detach with love from fought me (manipulated guilted etc) but it was ok, because those feelings belonged to them, not me.
I knew what I wanted in a companion/friend/partner/man if I ever got there again. And if I didn’t that was fine too. I had also resigned myself to the fact that I would probably not have kids (ripe old age of ‘30’) and I was at peace with that as well. It is what it is. Let go and Let God.
Along came him. Several months later. I had no intentions but here he was. And he had the qualities I was looking for. I thought “God” had put me through all of that turmoil to bring me “here.” Our song was “god blessed the broken road”. It was perfect. I could not WAIT for our first argument because he was so mature and put together and responsible (last guy was opposite) wow what would it be like to have an adult disagreement????
It just seemed so normal and regular. Yes, we drank together but I thought we were “dating drinking” I didn’t realize we were “real life drinking” – does that make sense to anyone?
I am so smart. I have always loved self help, evolving, improving, I read Co-No More at 19. I was always the wise one among my friends, always the one with the best advice.
How on EARTH did I end up marrying an abusive raging alcoholic? HOW? HOW did I miss all of this especially with my driveway epiphany?!?!?!
The hell started a year later, and here I am now with terrible stories to share. And nothing in my life matches who I was before I met him and how precious that gift was. That gift to myself. It’s gone.
Ok fine my father was an A but he never raised his voice, hell he isn’t even a big talker. My mother chased him. Always. I will never chase a man. I learned that early on.
8 years later.
That is what I just don’t understand. And I feel like I need to understand.
Maybe I am disappointed in myself. Maybe I don’t forgive myself. Maybe it’s not about him but me. That moment in the driveway and the months following is the most valuable experience I ever had in my LIFE and I gave it away. That was the essence of me and I just handed it over.
I think I feel like a fraud or something. Ashamed? I don’t know.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Meg....you are a great judge of your own character. You are still that person.
You cannot read minds or see in the future. You did not know, and that is ok. With time comes wisdom for the future. Stop this looking back and trying to why everything to death. Just accept that he is who he is, and you cannot control that.
You are still right on with your driveway epiphany. You cannot control anyone else's actions, but you can control your own reactions.
Tight hugs. You are going to get through this. You have come so very far.
XXX
You cannot read minds or see in the future. You did not know, and that is ok. With time comes wisdom for the future. Stop this looking back and trying to why everything to death. Just accept that he is who he is, and you cannot control that.
You are still right on with your driveway epiphany. You cannot control anyone else's actions, but you can control your own reactions.
Tight hugs. You are going to get through this. You have come so very far.
XXX
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Right here, right now!
Posts: 3,424
Meg-
My therapist when I am upset at me for not understanding what I was getting into reminds me gentlely that of course I did not know......maybe that was what that relationship was for.
I grew, I learned and I won't go into another situation like that again.
I am not a failure because I did not see it, I am a success because I saw it, fought through it and am a better person for it on the other side (and more discerning also). I bet you are too.
My therapist when I am upset at me for not understanding what I was getting into reminds me gentlely that of course I did not know......maybe that was what that relationship was for.
I grew, I learned and I won't go into another situation like that again.
I am not a failure because I did not see it, I am a success because I saw it, fought through it and am a better person for it on the other side (and more discerning also). I bet you are too.
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