Husband Wants To Drink On Upcoming Cruise
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,256
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII 
so he's already planned out his next drunk. he's already said that on YOUR SHARED vacation he is going to the do the ONE thing you do not want him to do. the ONE THING. and in fact, he'll make sure you are miserable if he can't drink. so you are going to LET HIM. and see how it goes.
if you understand anything at all about the progression of alcoholism, you'd understand the concern many share here. it gets worse, even when you don't drink. that is why it gets harder and harder to come back after relapses...the disease progresses AS IF you had continued to drink the whole time.
he won't have just one or two and be fine.
YOU are playing with fire and you seem determined to stay right by the edge of the flames. which is totally your right. you think you've got a handle on things now....and he'll behave.
remember, once you are on that cruise, you really can't ask them to please take you home, or drop you off at the next port. YOU'RE STUCK for the duration.
if you understand anything at all about the progression of alcoholism, you'd understand the concern many share here. it gets worse, even when you don't drink. that is why it gets harder and harder to come back after relapses...the disease progresses AS IF you had continued to drink the whole time.
he won't have just one or two and be fine.
YOU are playing with fire and you seem determined to stay right by the edge of the flames. which is totally your right. you think you've got a handle on things now....and he'll behave.
remember, once you are on that cruise, you really can't ask them to please take you home, or drop you off at the next port. YOU'RE STUCK for the duration.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 109
Originally Posted by Xtreem
I have about a thousand things I want to say here, but realize I'd better wait and collect all my thoughts first.
I would suggest you go back and re-read your posts from the last month or so and if you still think this is a great idea, then do it.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,256
Originally Posted by gippy1968
Will he be drinking 5 drinks per day or the monetary equivalent of 5 drinks per day? I remember the cruise we went on the bottles of rum bought ashore were a far better bang for our buck than buying drinks on board. Then we'd make our own drinks in the room and carry them around.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
But Jb, you aren't just TOLERATING his drinking (which he has announced he intends to do), you've told him it's OK with you. THAT'S what I can't get my head around. If you told him that your boundary holds, and that if he intends to drink, you intend to be elsewhere if it makes you uncomfortable, then you are simply allowing him to do his thing and keeping your own options open. But he's gotten you to say it's OK! AND he is making you even more complicit by allowing you the illusion of control in the form of managing the money on the cruise. NOW you are giving him "permission"--all the while knowing how alcoholism works, and that he will be unable to sustain this.
Can you see how inconsistent this is with your "zero tolerance?" I'm not sure why you SAID "zero tolerance." I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that if he came home tonight, completely drunk, you'd give him another chance. And that's fine--you have every right to do that--except that you now have zero credibility, rather than zero tolerance. Why should he take anything you say seriously?
I'd suggest you take a good hard look at what your boundaries REALLY are. Because it isn't zero tolerance.
I'm also not telling you what your boundary SHOULD be, just that you need to have it clear in your own mind, and if you communicate it to him (which you don't have to do--nobody is obligated to state his/her boundaries), you should be clear about it. Right now your "boundary" means nothing. It doesn't exist. It's a soggy pile of wet sand that can be pushed around at will.
Can you see how inconsistent this is with your "zero tolerance?" I'm not sure why you SAID "zero tolerance." I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that if he came home tonight, completely drunk, you'd give him another chance. And that's fine--you have every right to do that--except that you now have zero credibility, rather than zero tolerance. Why should he take anything you say seriously?
I'd suggest you take a good hard look at what your boundaries REALLY are. Because it isn't zero tolerance.
I'm also not telling you what your boundary SHOULD be, just that you need to have it clear in your own mind, and if you communicate it to him (which you don't have to do--nobody is obligated to state his/her boundaries), you should be clear about it. Right now your "boundary" means nothing. It doesn't exist. It's a soggy pile of wet sand that can be pushed around at will.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 982
Originally Posted by Justbreathe1980
I hear what you are saying, but the irony for me is that we have had few problems with his drinking on vacations because he is happy. He becomes belligerent when drinking at home and an issue arises. Those same problems don't seem to come up and trigger him when on vacation.
So in August we had a camping trip with friends planned, and he was drinking before we even left. I should have left him at home, but I was worried I wouldn't be able to handle the kids and setting up the tent and all that without him, and I figured he would be having fun with our friends so he would be fine.
Well I was very wrong. We had only been at the campground maybe 20 minutes before it started. What seemed to trigger him was that HE tripped over a rock and fell and got embarrassed. You can't control what will trigger them and you just never know.
My friends drove him home and the boys and I stayed and had the best time that we could. They helped me set up the tent. They helped me watch the kids, and it worked out great without him.
I will never go anywhere like that with him again if he is drinking or if he plans to drink.
I hear what you're saying though, Justbreathe, and I understand
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,256
Originally Posted by LexieCat
But Jb, you aren't just TOLERATING his drinking (which he has announced he intends to do), you've told him it's OK with you. THAT'S what I can't get my head around. If you told him that your boundary holds, and that if he intends to drink, you intend to be elsewhere if it makes you uncomfortable, then you are simply allowing him to do his thing and keeping your own options open. But he's gotten you to say it's OK! AND he is making you even more complicit by allowing you the illusion of control in the form of managing the money on the cruise. NOW you are giving him "permission"--all the while knowing how alcoholism works, and that he will be unable to sustain this.
Can you see how inconsistent this is with your "zero tolerance?" I'm not sure why you SAID "zero tolerance." I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that if he came home tonight, completely drunk, you'd give him another chance. And that's fine--you have every right to do that--except that you now have zero credibility, rather than zero tolerance. Why should he take anything you say seriously?
I'd suggest you take a good hard look at what your boundaries REALLY are. Because it isn't zero tolerance.
I'm also not telling you what your boundary SHOULD be, just that you need to have it clear in your own mind, and if you communicate it to him (which you don't have to do--nobody is obligated to state his/her boundaries), you should be clear about it. Right now your "boundary" means nothing. It doesn't exist. It's a soggy pile of wet sand that can be pushed around at will.
Can you see how inconsistent this is with your "zero tolerance?" I'm not sure why you SAID "zero tolerance." I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that if he came home tonight, completely drunk, you'd give him another chance. And that's fine--you have every right to do that--except that you now have zero credibility, rather than zero tolerance. Why should he take anything you say seriously?
I'd suggest you take a good hard look at what your boundaries REALLY are. Because it isn't zero tolerance.
I'm also not telling you what your boundary SHOULD be, just that you need to have it clear in your own mind, and if you communicate it to him (which you don't have to do--nobody is obligated to state his/her boundaries), you should be clear about it. Right now your "boundary" means nothing. It doesn't exist. It's a soggy pile of wet sand that can be pushed around at will.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,256
Originally Posted by Kboys
I used to feel that way with my AH too. He never had become beligerent or nasty around other people. He just saved his ugliness for me at the house, and his mom a couple of times.
So in August we had a camping trip with friends planned, and he was drinking before we even left. I should have left him at home, but I was worried I wouldn't be able to handle the kids and setting up the tent and all that without him, and I figured he would be having fun with our friends so he would be fine.
Well I was very wrong. We had only been at the campground maybe 20 minutes before it started. What seemed to trigger him was that HE tripped over a rock and fell and got embarrassed. You can't control what will trigger them and you just never know.
My friends drove him home and the boys and I stayed and had the best time that we could. They helped me set up the tent. They helped me watch the kids, and it worked out great without him.
I will never go anywhere like that with him again if he is drinking or if he plans to drink.
I hear what you're saying though, Justbreathe, and I understand
So in August we had a camping trip with friends planned, and he was drinking before we even left. I should have left him at home, but I was worried I wouldn't be able to handle the kids and setting up the tent and all that without him, and I figured he would be having fun with our friends so he would be fine.
Well I was very wrong. We had only been at the campground maybe 20 minutes before it started. What seemed to trigger him was that HE tripped over a rock and fell and got embarrassed. You can't control what will trigger them and you just never know.
My friends drove him home and the boys and I stayed and had the best time that we could. They helped me set up the tent. They helped me watch the kids, and it worked out great without him.
I will never go anywhere like that with him again if he is drinking or if he plans to drink.
I hear what you're saying though, Justbreathe, and I understand
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
The "past weeks"???? who are you kidding?
the weekend right before Thanksgiving he was drunk and threatening to "snap your neck".
Today is December 9.
Jbreathe, you keep changing your mind about what you think is acceptable, but I really don't think you know what you want. the reality is that as his wife, you are liable for his damages and could be sued for what little assets you have. IDK, you will have to figure it out for yourself....but you don't seem to see his progression.
This isn't a happy little buzz drunk...this is a person who was drinking before work to cope with what upset he had over his job (that he does not have to use his mind for, your words). He has ZERO mature coping skills without pot or booze. this is not normal and you have bigger problems than how much $$ he is going to charge on the cruise ship...much bigger.
When was the last day he was ACTUALLY SOBER???? no pot, no booze, just him. Can you remember that person? Does he exist.
the weekend right before Thanksgiving he was drunk and threatening to "snap your neck".
Today is December 9.
Jbreathe, you keep changing your mind about what you think is acceptable, but I really don't think you know what you want. the reality is that as his wife, you are liable for his damages and could be sued for what little assets you have. IDK, you will have to figure it out for yourself....but you don't seem to see his progression.
This isn't a happy little buzz drunk...this is a person who was drinking before work to cope with what upset he had over his job (that he does not have to use his mind for, your words). He has ZERO mature coping skills without pot or booze. this is not normal and you have bigger problems than how much $$ he is going to charge on the cruise ship...much bigger.
When was the last day he was ACTUALLY SOBER???? no pot, no booze, just him. Can you remember that person? Does he exist.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,256
I understand what some of you are saying about losing credibility if I designate a zero tolerance for alcohol, yet am still unsure what I would do if my husband drank again.
Let me try to explain this. My current boundary of not wanting to be in a relationship with an active alcoholic is working, as my husband has been abstaining from alcohol and we have been having a nice time together since. If he does drink again, I will have to assess the situation, my thoughts, my feelings and everything else WHEN THAT HAPPENS. If I choose to give him another chance like many of you think I will, well then that will happen and we can go from there. May I lose some credibility? Possibly. But the final thing about all of this is that my husband will be taking a huge risk if he chooses to drink again, and he is capable of doing something that I cannot forgive in our relationship. In other words, he can only push me so far before I will want out and say, "I'm sorry, but that is it."
Let me try to explain this. My current boundary of not wanting to be in a relationship with an active alcoholic is working, as my husband has been abstaining from alcohol and we have been having a nice time together since. If he does drink again, I will have to assess the situation, my thoughts, my feelings and everything else WHEN THAT HAPPENS. If I choose to give him another chance like many of you think I will, well then that will happen and we can go from there. May I lose some credibility? Possibly. But the final thing about all of this is that my husband will be taking a huge risk if he chooses to drink again, and he is capable of doing something that I cannot forgive in our relationship. In other words, he can only push me so far before I will want out and say, "I'm sorry, but that is it."
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,256
Originally Posted by Fandy
The "past weeks"???? who are you kidding?
the weekend right before Thanksgiving he was drunk and threatening to "snap your neck".
Today is December 9.
Jbreathe, you keep changing your mind about what you think is acceptable, but I really don't think you know what you want. the reality is that as his wife, you are liable for his damages and could be sued for what little assets you have. IDK, you will have to figure it out for yourself....but you don't seem to see his progression.
This isn't a happy little buzz drunk...this is a person who was drinking before work to cope with what upset he had over his job (that he does not have to use his mind for, your words). He has ZERO mature coping skills without pot or booze. this is not normal and you have bigger problems than how much $$ he is going to charge on the cruise ship...much bigger.
When was the last day he was ACTUALLY SOBER???? no pot, no booze, just him. Can you remember that person? Does he exist.
the weekend right before Thanksgiving he was drunk and threatening to "snap your neck".
Today is December 9.
Jbreathe, you keep changing your mind about what you think is acceptable, but I really don't think you know what you want. the reality is that as his wife, you are liable for his damages and could be sued for what little assets you have. IDK, you will have to figure it out for yourself....but you don't seem to see his progression.
This isn't a happy little buzz drunk...this is a person who was drinking before work to cope with what upset he had over his job (that he does not have to use his mind for, your words). He has ZERO mature coping skills without pot or booze. this is not normal and you have bigger problems than how much $$ he is going to charge on the cruise ship...much bigger.
When was the last day he was ACTUALLY SOBER???? no pot, no booze, just him. Can you remember that person? Does he exist.
On cruises, I love the weather, the laying out by the pool, the beaches, the 24/7 food, the casino, the shows, the disco and dancing, the ocean view from my suite, walking along the cruise, the cruise activities, etc. My husband's drinking has not ruined my previous two vacations with him, and it won't ruin this one.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
Originally Posted by Justbreathe1980
Let me try to explain this. My current boundary of not wanting to be in a relationship with an active alcoholic is working, as my husband has been abstaining from alcohol and we have been having a nice time together since.
"Boundaries" are guidelines for protecting ourselves from things we don't want in our life. They are entirely focused on ourselves. They help us decide what to do in response to the action of others, which is out of our hands.
"Rules" are used to try to control others, to make them do what we want. For me, this has always been a losing proposition, sometimes devastatingly so. When I failed to "make" someone else do or be what I wanted them to be in order to be happy, I put my entire sense of self in the hands of someone else -- in my case, addicts who had even less sense of self than I did. However when I created boundaries and stood by them, I empowered myself to have the life I wanted, even if that meant it wasn't always who I wanted to share it with. But then, because I was more invested in the people I wanted my addicts to be (rather than accepting who they were), at the end of the day, I lost nothing. Whatever I thought I had, it was an illusion. Something I made up and walked on eggshells 24/7 in order to maintain.
But nobody could have told me that without experiencing it firsthand. I wish you the best, JB, and I hope it all works out like you want it to.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mmmmmm
Posts: 3,178
JB,
This is all future tripping and putting the focus on your H. It is like a thread re-enacting "Speed 2".
What are you doing to stay sober for you today? You are in early days yourself. Your sobriety should be your #1 focus.
Now a normal person would take environment, company you keep and personal safety as critical components to building a lasting sobriety. You are consistently making dangerous choices for your self in all 3 of these core areas. I foresee a crisis well before your trip. I see a lot of snowflakes.
This is all future tripping and putting the focus on your H. It is like a thread re-enacting "Speed 2".
What are you doing to stay sober for you today? You are in early days yourself. Your sobriety should be your #1 focus.
Now a normal person would take environment, company you keep and personal safety as critical components to building a lasting sobriety. You are consistently making dangerous choices for your self in all 3 of these core areas. I foresee a crisis well before your trip. I see a lot of snowflakes.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,907
People who try to convince a determined alcoholic not to drink are pissin' in the wind.
People who try to convince a determined F&F member to do something other than what they have already decided to do are also pissin' in the wind.
While you are only trying to help, that's the same thing the person thinks that is trying to convince a determined alcoholic not to drink.
There comes a time when everyone needs to step back and let them do what they are determined to do.
People who try to convince a determined F&F member to do something other than what they have already decided to do are also pissin' in the wind.
While you are only trying to help, that's the same thing the person thinks that is trying to convince a determined alcoholic not to drink.
There comes a time when everyone needs to step back and let them do what they are determined to do.
Present
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: "Happy Rock" (Gladstone) Oregon
Posts: 1,252
What I have learned in Al-Anon is that I can live my life the way I want, whether or not the alcoholic is drinking. I am with my AH. I make the choice to be with him every day. I have a plan B at all times in case I choose to leave my AH.
Working Al-Anon has made all the difference. I have a wonderful sponsor who has guided me toward some approved literature that really speaks to me.
One thing she suggested is to use the index in the book,
"How Al-Anon Works for Families & Friends of Alcoholics" by Al-Anon Family Groups.
She said to use the index to look up things like detachment, and emotions I might have like anxiety. I have found that this lifts my spirits. It's very helpful.
I just looked up "Taking Care of Ourselves."
Here is what it says:
LIVE AND LET LIVE
This is a two-part slogan. In dealing with alcoholism, many of us focus most intently upon the latter part of the slogan, the "let live" part. Having felt so overly responsible for other people's choices and actions, it can be a great struggle to grant others the dignity to make decisions for themselves and allow them to deal with the results. We use this slogan as a reminder to get off their backs and "let" them live. In this way, everyone benefits. The people in our lives benefit because they are finally receiving the respect that is every person's due. Now they are free to enjoy the fruits of their positive efforts and to reap the consequences of their more destructive behavior. Regardless of what they choose to do about it, by minding our own business and getting out of the way, we allow others to be themselves.Meanwhile, we free ourselves, from all kinds of burdens that were never ours to carry. Thus, we, too, have the opportunity to face ourselves.
Working Al-Anon has made all the difference. I have a wonderful sponsor who has guided me toward some approved literature that really speaks to me.
One thing she suggested is to use the index in the book,
"How Al-Anon Works for Families & Friends of Alcoholics" by Al-Anon Family Groups.
She said to use the index to look up things like detachment, and emotions I might have like anxiety. I have found that this lifts my spirits. It's very helpful.
I just looked up "Taking Care of Ourselves."
Here is what it says:
LIVE AND LET LIVE
This is a two-part slogan. In dealing with alcoholism, many of us focus most intently upon the latter part of the slogan, the "let live" part. Having felt so overly responsible for other people's choices and actions, it can be a great struggle to grant others the dignity to make decisions for themselves and allow them to deal with the results. We use this slogan as a reminder to get off their backs and "let" them live. In this way, everyone benefits. The people in our lives benefit because they are finally receiving the respect that is every person's due. Now they are free to enjoy the fruits of their positive efforts and to reap the consequences of their more destructive behavior. Regardless of what they choose to do about it, by minding our own business and getting out of the way, we allow others to be themselves.Meanwhile, we free ourselves, from all kinds of burdens that were never ours to carry. Thus, we, too, have the opportunity to face ourselves.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,222
Originally Posted by Justbreathe1980
If I choose to give him another chance like many of you think I will, well then that will happen and we can go from there. May I lose some credibility? Possibly. But the final thing about all of this is that my husband will be taking a huge risk if he chooses to drink again, and he is capable of doing something that I cannot forgive in our relationship. In other words, he can only push me so far before I will want out and say, "I'm sorry, but that is it."
He is an alcoholic and so things will likely continue to deteriorate and sooner or later you will likely need to leave him. I hope this time comes before anything serious happens. The advice you have received is very clear and from a large number of members. there is nothing I can add other than to advise you to read back on your threads from time to time both in the good times and bad and I hope that eventually you will see what you cannot see today. Take care of yourself please.
By the way.....the pot is all part of the problem. I am sure you know this deep down even if you have contorted your mind to convince yourself that it is not.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
Hi JB,
I'm happy about one thing. You are writing things down. You are not isolating. You are also looking at yourself and how you are reacting to things. It takes a lot to be able to do that. Ummm, I can't give you my blessings for what you are doing, but I do understand, hey, I was married and living with an abusive alcoholic jerk for 25 years. Who am I to judge anything about how you are living your life. I just want to say thank you for staying here and not isolating.
((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))
amy
I'm happy about one thing. You are writing things down. You are not isolating. You are also looking at yourself and how you are reacting to things. It takes a lot to be able to do that. Ummm, I can't give you my blessings for what you are doing, but I do understand, hey, I was married and living with an abusive alcoholic jerk for 25 years. Who am I to judge anything about how you are living your life. I just want to say thank you for staying here and not isolating.
((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))
amy
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
