What Do People Mean By Codependence?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 284
Good question. It is much more than that, but that is a part of it. Codependence is ALWAYS (or often) putting others' needs ahead of your own, or ALWAYS doing things for others that they should be able to do for themselves, or thinking that you know what's best for others. It may be that you often feel like the martyr, the strong one, in the relationship. Or, and this is a big one for me... I found that my moods would mirror the moods of my AH. I also started to parrot some of his nonsensical excuses to friends and family.
This isn't to say that you should never give up what you might want for the sake of another. You can still be sympathetic without being codependent. And maybe you do know quite a lot about what would benefit the other person, but maybe you could also respect that the other person has a right to make their own choices. AND, recognize that your choices in life can be made independent of them, if it comes to it. You deserve the same respect you give.
Have you read Codependent No More? It really is a helpful book for understanding what codependency is and what it is not. My explanation just scratched the surface really.
I'm glad you are in a place where you can explore these ideas. Wishing you continued peace and clarity.
Fathom
This isn't to say that you should never give up what you might want for the sake of another. You can still be sympathetic without being codependent. And maybe you do know quite a lot about what would benefit the other person, but maybe you could also respect that the other person has a right to make their own choices. AND, recognize that your choices in life can be made independent of them, if it comes to it. You deserve the same respect you give.
Have you read Codependent No More? It really is a helpful book for understanding what codependency is and what it is not. My explanation just scratched the surface really.
I'm glad you are in a place where you can explore these ideas. Wishing you continued peace and clarity.
Fathom
Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by Justbreathe1980 
When people talk about being codependent, does this mean that they are putting the needs of others before themselves?
I suppose, in a nut shell you can say that. But for me, its also about control. I never realized what my issue was until my axbf told me i was controlling, and he was right. I wanted to control everything he did because i feared he would drink. If he was late coming home or wanted to unexpectidly go to the store... i questioned it. I wanted to take care of all his problems so it wouldn't cause him any more problems. I made taking care of him a priority, and stopped looking after myself. When i was out with my family and i knew he was home alone.. i would have anxiety just thinking of the thought he might drink. I couldn't enjoy anything. a month before we broke up i went to Las Vegas with my son and mom. Even days before i left i was having anxiety. i was fearful that we was going to drink and cheat with the ex he had recently began talking to. I had the most horrible vacation of my life.
Im sure there is lots more to this codependency thing, as I'm still learning. My axbf as horrible for my health. I have high blood pressure as it is, but being in that realtionship i believe might have truly killed me.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
Codependent??? I have to say I'm still not sure what that means. I'll accept the 2 above descriptions.
My codependency consisted of walking on eggshells, trying to be what that person wanted, when he wanted a different person everyday. I was never right, but I always tried to be that person that he wanted. I knew I could only change one person and that was myself, so I tried to change that person into being the one he wanted.
To me codependency is doing things that are detrimental to your own health.
My codependency consisted of walking on eggshells, trying to be what that person wanted, when he wanted a different person everyday. I was never right, but I always tried to be that person that he wanted. I knew I could only change one person and that was myself, so I tried to change that person into being the one he wanted.
To me codependency is doing things that are detrimental to your own health.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: liverpool, england
Posts: 1,708
my understanding of codependent is that someone has to have someone in there life as they need them and can not be without them, there life will depend on keeping that person with them
there is a guy i know who has been married for almost 40 years he is a real pain in the butt with how he is as he is always right and never shuts up his wife had enough of him and threatend divorce only a year ago despite him being sober for 35 years
she had come to the end of the line with the guy
he ran around like a scared rabbit as he knew no one else would put up with him and he didn't like the idea of having to live on his own and have to look after himself as he is so codependant on his wife
so he is now doing all sorts of things trying to keep hold of her its all fear based behavior and selfish, hence it is a problem with alcoholics as the very nature of alcoholics is selfishness
there is a guy i know who has been married for almost 40 years he is a real pain in the butt with how he is as he is always right and never shuts up his wife had enough of him and threatend divorce only a year ago despite him being sober for 35 years
she had come to the end of the line with the guy
he ran around like a scared rabbit as he knew no one else would put up with him and he didn't like the idea of having to live on his own and have to look after himself as he is so codependant on his wife
so he is now doing all sorts of things trying to keep hold of her its all fear based behavior and selfish, hence it is a problem with alcoholics as the very nature of alcoholics is selfishness
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,405
You will find many long lists of symptoms of codependency, and there is a thin line between codependent and healthy behaviors. It's the extremes that make the difference.
To me a simple explanation is codependency is being excessively preoccupied with what we think are the needs of others and using various forms of control in an attempt to change them into who we want them to be. Additionally, when addiction/alcoholism is involved- becoming enmeshed in another's addiction and/or recovery.
And while you may see a lot of codependency shaming and surrounding stigma on the internet, like addiction or alcoholism, codependency is nothing to be ashamed of.
To me a simple explanation is codependency is being excessively preoccupied with what we think are the needs of others and using various forms of control in an attempt to change them into who we want them to be. Additionally, when addiction/alcoholism is involved- becoming enmeshed in another's addiction and/or recovery.
And while you may see a lot of codependency shaming and surrounding stigma on the internet, like addiction or alcoholism, codependency is nothing to be ashamed of.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Justbreathe, if you can, get over to your local library and check out "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie. I think this is the best and most complete definition you'll find. As someone who would have sworn up and down that she was not in any way codependent, I've learned a LOT about what codependency really is. And I've learned that I have an awful lot of the behaviors and thought patterns, yes indeedy I do.
I don't know if you've been following the postings for "The Language of Letting Go" on this forum at all, but that would be another good source for seeing what codependency and the recovery from it looks like.
Identifying this in myself has been a big step, and gradually working on changing those behaviors and thought patterns is making a difference, even though I have miles and miles to go.
I don't know if you've been following the postings for "The Language of Letting Go" on this forum at all, but that would be another good source for seeing what codependency and the recovery from it looks like.
Identifying this in myself has been a big step, and gradually working on changing those behaviors and thought patterns is making a difference, even though I have miles and miles to go.
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
Here is one sticky that might be a place to start...
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-part-1-a.html
I should say that not everyone who is involved with an alcoholic has codependent personality traits, and not every person with codependent personality traits is involved with an alcoholic.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-part-1-a.html
I should say that not everyone who is involved with an alcoholic has codependent personality traits, and not every person with codependent personality traits is involved with an alcoholic.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
JustBreathe.....As you can see..there is a million ways to explain the concept of "Co-dependency"...LOL! All good explanations.
When I first heard this term...I had a difficult time completely wrapping my head around it.
Still do...sometimes.
My favorite explanation is this: At the very heart..the core of the matter...is not so much your relationship with another....BUT, the LACK of relationship with YOURSELF.
This is why you will hear the mantra, in recovery circles: "Work on yourself! Work on yourself! Work on yourself".
If you will remember this simple explanation..when you read the more detailed explanations...I believe that it will fall into place for your better.
Don't worry.....most everybody struggles with the concept in the beginning.....
Just keep learning, and, eventually, it will "click".
I also endorse reading "Co-Dependent No More". It is a really good read!
dandylion
When I first heard this term...I had a difficult time completely wrapping my head around it.
Still do...sometimes.
My favorite explanation is this: At the very heart..the core of the matter...is not so much your relationship with another....BUT, the LACK of relationship with YOURSELF.
This is why you will hear the mantra, in recovery circles: "Work on yourself! Work on yourself! Work on yourself".
If you will remember this simple explanation..when you read the more detailed explanations...I believe that it will fall into place for your better.
Don't worry.....most everybody struggles with the concept in the beginning.....
Just keep learning, and, eventually, it will "click".
I also endorse reading "Co-Dependent No More". It is a really good read!
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 413
"I made taking care of him a priority, and stopped looking after myself. When i was out with my family and i knew he was home alone.. i would have anxiety just thinking of the thought he might drink. I couldn't enjoy anything. a month before we broke up i went to Las Vegas with my son and mom. Even days before i left i was having anxiety. i was fearful that we was going to drink and cheat with the ex he had recently began talking to. I had the most horrible vacation of my life. "
This to me is one piece of codependency -- and matches my own responses to an addicted partner exactly. Oh, the worrying, modifying my schedule, dropping things I loved to do so that I could be home, the trying to control.....
But for me there is another dimension, because unfortunately it's normal for an alcoholic / addict to use. The other dimension of codependence for me is that we choose to overlook reality. We think we can change the person. We think that the worrying and the attempts to control is going to make a difference. Short-term they might, but long-term they never do make a difference. And hence we end up miserable.
A healthy person would avoid the same situation or would remove themselves far earlier with far less drama. A normal person would see the red flags in the relationship, know what their boundaries were, take care of themselves first, and pull back. People break up and relationships end all the time -- and with far less drama than I generated at the end of my relationship with an addict!
For me, it is important to understand and work on this dysfunctional part of myself because, if I don't, I'll just end up in the same situation later with another dysfunctional person.
This to me is one piece of codependency -- and matches my own responses to an addicted partner exactly. Oh, the worrying, modifying my schedule, dropping things I loved to do so that I could be home, the trying to control.....
But for me there is another dimension, because unfortunately it's normal for an alcoholic / addict to use. The other dimension of codependence for me is that we choose to overlook reality. We think we can change the person. We think that the worrying and the attempts to control is going to make a difference. Short-term they might, but long-term they never do make a difference. And hence we end up miserable.
A healthy person would avoid the same situation or would remove themselves far earlier with far less drama. A normal person would see the red flags in the relationship, know what their boundaries were, take care of themselves first, and pull back. People break up and relationships end all the time -- and with far less drama than I generated at the end of my relationship with an addict!
For me, it is important to understand and work on this dysfunctional part of myself because, if I don't, I'll just end up in the same situation later with another dysfunctional person.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 413
And by the way Cleo, good job on seeing the red flags and getting out as soon as you did. It always feels like too long, but it sounds to me like you gave it a chance, realized it wasn't working, and when you knew it wasn't going to change you backed out. Nothing wrong with that...just learn from the experience so you don't go down that road again!
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: uk
Posts: 368
For me, the easiest broad definition is that it's a person who values themselves primarily through other people's eyes.
For some, that can take the form of trying to fix someone or change/control their behaviours.
For others that can mean trying to become the perfect partner/whatever their spouse seems to want.
It can also mean blaming oneself when other people cause drama.
For me it was a combination of the last two, not just in relationships but at work too. I was stressed all the time at never being good enough. I wouldn't speak up about my own needs and desires. I have since learned that other people's behaviour has nothing to do with me and my self worth is separate from them.
That's been my recovery so-far. But it took the longest time to recognise that that was the problem. Years in fact. I wouldn't exactly describe myself as co dependant, but I can behave in a codependant way when I am feeling insecure or down or I am with people who draw those behaviours from me. Solution has been to separate myself from people who don't treat me well and to accept that other's behaviour is not in my control, also that it's perfectly reasonable to express my own needs and desires in a calm manner. And to expect to get my needs fulfilled, if not all my desires.
For some, that can take the form of trying to fix someone or change/control their behaviours.
For others that can mean trying to become the perfect partner/whatever their spouse seems to want.
It can also mean blaming oneself when other people cause drama.
For me it was a combination of the last two, not just in relationships but at work too. I was stressed all the time at never being good enough. I wouldn't speak up about my own needs and desires. I have since learned that other people's behaviour has nothing to do with me and my self worth is separate from them.
That's been my recovery so-far. But it took the longest time to recognise that that was the problem. Years in fact. I wouldn't exactly describe myself as co dependant, but I can behave in a codependant way when I am feeling insecure or down or I am with people who draw those behaviours from me. Solution has been to separate myself from people who don't treat me well and to accept that other's behaviour is not in my control, also that it's perfectly reasonable to express my own needs and desires in a calm manner. And to expect to get my needs fulfilled, if not all my desires.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
In healthy relationships the love is unconditional but the commitment is not. I had it backwards. Unconditional commitment but the love was based on a complex set of unspoken (and even subconscious) contracts in an attempt to get my needs met. Needs that he could not have met if he tried because the fix was an internal one. Turns out he was just as codependent as I was, if not more, so you can imagine how well things worked out. IMO codependency also means a great struggle with boundaries. I swung between no boundaries, very rigid and inflexible boundaries, and enmeshment. Boundaries continue to be something I need to work on. I see no way for true healthy intimacy without healthy boundaries.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
All of the above, plus waiting for other people to change their behavior so that I could be happy and have the life I wanted and also having my well being and moods depend on the actions and moods of other people.
If I had stuck around with my ex I would still be waiting for HIM to change so that I could be happy. Now, working my own recovery, I have made the necessary changes in my life and thought processes to make myself happy, regardless of other people's choices.
If I had stuck around with my ex I would still be waiting for HIM to change so that I could be happy. Now, working my own recovery, I have made the necessary changes in my life and thought processes to make myself happy, regardless of other people's choices.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
For me, codependency was a matter of hanging my state of being on the actions of another person. Growing up, it was my mother, an A, who could dictate our well-being with a shake of her head, through my first marriage ("as long as my husband believed I was good enough, then I was"), into the horrific relationships following my divorce, and finally into a ten month relationship with an A, where I began to understand that I could make my own happiness and serenity regardless of what other people did or didn't do. Pretty empowering to build a relationship with myself and never worry about walking on eggshells around other people again.
Recovering ostrich
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida
Posts: 2,551
I had a relationship in my 20s with a person that totally destroyed me mentally (the relationship and my actions destroyed me, not the person.... And I see the difference now). I thought of myself as the fixer of this person, I would take care of everything for her so she wouldn't have to be burdened with it (cooking, picking up the dry cleaning, appointments, etc) and would get so wrapped up in her care, I let mine go. It was really one of the most stressful times of my life and that is when my drinking really took off.
It wasn't until 10 years later that I joined this site and read through FNF side of the house that I understood it was codependency. Funny enough, I've been in a relationship for almost 9 years and that pattern didn't repeat. I consider myself very lucky.
It wasn't until 10 years later that I joined this site and read through FNF side of the house that I understood it was codependency. Funny enough, I've been in a relationship for almost 9 years and that pattern didn't repeat. I consider myself very lucky.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by Needabreak
And by the way Cleo, good job on seeing the red flags and getting out as soon as you did. It always feels like too long, but it sounds to me like you gave it a chance, realized it wasn't working, and when you knew it wasn't going to change you backed out. Nothing wrong with that...just learn from the experience so you don't go down that road again!
Thank you so much! Being a true, codependent it was very hard to end it. It was a pretty emotionally exhausting relationship. After i realized he was secretly making plans with his old ex, that was more than i could handle on top of all the chaos of his addiction! It wasn't a easy breakup... as crazy as it sounds, i still wanted him back at times. Im definetly trying to learn from this so i never put myself though another relationship like this ever again!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,256
Thank you for all of your posts. This is sort of what I thought - that many people use the term codependent in different ways. So whenever someone on this site makes an "unhealthy" decision, it will most likely be labeled as codependent by someone, LOL. I think it's important, however, that people get on the same page when using these terms. Otherwise, people can start labeling themselves as codependent or others can label someone as codependent without really knowing what that means, and that can be very confusing.
For me at this time, I am going to define codependent as being excessively preoccupied with the needs of another person to the point that an individual begins neglecting his or her own needs. This preoccupation with the needs of another person can involve trying to change this person so that we feel better in our own lives.
When I look at my own codependence right now, I do notice that I exert a lot of energy into my husband and helping him. This energy somewhat exhausts me that I somewhat neglect myself, although not to the point yet in which I can't work or get out of bed. I also am trying to change him so that I can feel better in my own life.
The irony is that I have had some "talks" with my husband when going to bed about things such as his drinking and how it has negatively affected our relationship. Although I do believe that he will drink again (such as when we go on our Caribbean cruise), I do feel that my desire to change him (through my discussions with him) have somewhat changed him and have therefore helped our relationship temporarily. For example, he respects and has no desire to drink at this time. He has somewhat changed, which has allowed our relationship to recalibrate.
I will know when my codependence becomes pathological when I start to miss work, don't get up out of the bed during the day, start missing my personal appointments, start neglecting my personal hygiene, or if I was to start drinking again because I can't handle the stress of my relationship.
For me at this time, I am going to define codependent as being excessively preoccupied with the needs of another person to the point that an individual begins neglecting his or her own needs. This preoccupation with the needs of another person can involve trying to change this person so that we feel better in our own lives.
When I look at my own codependence right now, I do notice that I exert a lot of energy into my husband and helping him. This energy somewhat exhausts me that I somewhat neglect myself, although not to the point yet in which I can't work or get out of bed. I also am trying to change him so that I can feel better in my own life.
The irony is that I have had some "talks" with my husband when going to bed about things such as his drinking and how it has negatively affected our relationship. Although I do believe that he will drink again (such as when we go on our Caribbean cruise), I do feel that my desire to change him (through my discussions with him) have somewhat changed him and have therefore helped our relationship temporarily. For example, he respects and has no desire to drink at this time. He has somewhat changed, which has allowed our relationship to recalibrate.
I will know when my codependence becomes pathological when I start to miss work, don't get up out of the bed during the day, start missing my personal appointments, start neglecting my personal hygiene, or if I was to start drinking again because I can't handle the stress of my relationship.
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