What Do People Mean By Codependence?
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Join Date: May 2013
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[QUOTE=Justbreathe1980;5063
I will know when my codependence becomes pathological when I start to miss work, don't get up out of the bed during the day, start missing my personal appointments, start neglecting my personal hygiene, or if I was to start drinking again because I can't handle the stress of my relationship.[/QUOTE]
I think it might be helpful to discuss this with a counsellor or alanon group? Because most people don't end up like this but yet still cause damage to themselves and others, emotional ly. For your part, it's just not beneficial to you as a person to focus so hard in someone else's faults. Kind of get the plank out of your own eye first sort of thing. Otherwise you may be.missing on your own growth and your own contribution to the relationship. From his side, how would it feel to have someone monitor and comment on everything you do wrong? Most people know when they are messing up. Having someone else point it out is rarely helpful to a relationship, even if he is temporarily complying.
I mean this as gently as I can, but I think people here do use the term accurately. It describes a range of behaviours, all of them focussing on someone else. Whether that causes you to neglect physical things or not, it's damaging emotionally and mentally
I will know when my codependence becomes pathological when I start to miss work, don't get up out of the bed during the day, start missing my personal appointments, start neglecting my personal hygiene, or if I was to start drinking again because I can't handle the stress of my relationship.[/QUOTE]
I think it might be helpful to discuss this with a counsellor or alanon group? Because most people don't end up like this but yet still cause damage to themselves and others, emotional ly. For your part, it's just not beneficial to you as a person to focus so hard in someone else's faults. Kind of get the plank out of your own eye first sort of thing. Otherwise you may be.missing on your own growth and your own contribution to the relationship. From his side, how would it feel to have someone monitor and comment on everything you do wrong? Most people know when they are messing up. Having someone else point it out is rarely helpful to a relationship, even if he is temporarily complying.
I mean this as gently as I can, but I think people here do use the term accurately. It describes a range of behaviours, all of them focussing on someone else. Whether that causes you to neglect physical things or not, it's damaging emotionally and mentally
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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I think shil's definition is much more in line with how we are using it on this list and how it is understood by most.
Most of us codependents don't miss work, stay in bed all day, miss personal appointments, or neglect getting clean because of our Addicted Spouses.
Usually it's them doing those things while we are attempting to keep them on track with our codependent control of their lives.
[Which doesn't work in the long run, as we all eventually learn].
However, you have also raised the issue of falling back into your own drinking, and I think that is certainly a real risk in your situation.
It seems you are so focused on him and his actions that you may be neglecting building the foundation you need to be strong and solid in your own recovery.
When you lie to your husband about going to Alanon by telling him you are at AA, each time you are cheating yourself of much-needed external support for your own sobriety.
You are so early in your sobriety that it may not have "caught up" to you yet, but it will.
I'm talking as a former alcoholic myself and I gently make the following observation:
if you keep burning your candle at both ends to try to keep him going and yourself, you both are at serious risk.
Taking an alcohol-soaked cruise with a person who gets angry and violent when drinking doesn't seem like a very good idea at this time given your situation either.
You clearly do like to live dangerously, as you posted on another forum. I just hope you stay safe and sober.
Most of us codependents don't miss work, stay in bed all day, miss personal appointments, or neglect getting clean because of our Addicted Spouses.
Usually it's them doing those things while we are attempting to keep them on track with our codependent control of their lives.
[Which doesn't work in the long run, as we all eventually learn].
However, you have also raised the issue of falling back into your own drinking, and I think that is certainly a real risk in your situation.
It seems you are so focused on him and his actions that you may be neglecting building the foundation you need to be strong and solid in your own recovery.
When you lie to your husband about going to Alanon by telling him you are at AA, each time you are cheating yourself of much-needed external support for your own sobriety.
You are so early in your sobriety that it may not have "caught up" to you yet, but it will.
I'm talking as a former alcoholic myself and I gently make the following observation:
if you keep burning your candle at both ends to try to keep him going and yourself, you both are at serious risk.
Taking an alcohol-soaked cruise with a person who gets angry and violent when drinking doesn't seem like a very good idea at this time given your situation either.
You clearly do like to live dangerously, as you posted on another forum. I just hope you stay safe and sober.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
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When my emotional state is tied to another person's actions/well-being then I am in a codependent situation; when their needs are priority & mine are non-existent.
If I can't be happy unless HE is first, if I wait to see his reaction before deciding on my own, if I spend my time away from him worrying about what needs of his aren't being met, when I spend my time with him doing things for him that a grown man can do for himself - all Codie behaviors.
Enabling him to stay that way so that I can martyr myself to the cause is also Codie of me.
Normal people exhibit codependent behaviors at times but Codies show these behaviors consistently/persistently and often across many relationships. For Normies it's a change in behavior but for Codies it's more ingrained than that.... it's our "normal".
If I can't be happy unless HE is first, if I wait to see his reaction before deciding on my own, if I spend my time away from him worrying about what needs of his aren't being met, when I spend my time with him doing things for him that a grown man can do for himself - all Codie behaviors.
Enabling him to stay that way so that I can martyr myself to the cause is also Codie of me.
Normal people exhibit codependent behaviors at times but Codies show these behaviors consistently/persistently and often across many relationships. For Normies it's a change in behavior but for Codies it's more ingrained than that.... it's our "normal".
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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Originally Posted by shil2587 
I think it might be helpful to discuss this with a counsellor or alanon group? Because most people don't end up like this but yet still cause damage to themselves and others, emotional ly. For your part, it's just not beneficial to you as a person to focus so hard in someone else's faults. Kind of get the plank out of your own eye first sort of thing. Otherwise you may be.missing on your own growth and your own contribution to the relationship. From his side, how would it feel to have someone monitor and comment on everything you do wrong? Most people know when they are messing up. Having someone else point it out is rarely helpful to a relationship, even if he is temporarily complying.
I mean this as gently as I can, but I think people here do use the term accurately. It describes a range of behaviours, all of them focussing on someone else. Whether that causes you to neglect physical things or not, it's damaging emotionally and mentally
I mean this as gently as I can, but I think people here do use the term accurately. It describes a range of behaviours, all of them focussing on someone else. Whether that causes you to neglect physical things or not, it's damaging emotionally and mentally
I am not constantly pointing out my husband's faults in our relationship. What I do point out to him is how his drinking impairs our relationship, such as when he threatened to snap my neck when drinking. That stuff needs to be pointed out for the purpose of creating boundaries, such as how I created a boundary when I said that I did not want to be in a relationship with an active alcoholic. You post suggests that I am constantly pointing out his faults, which is very untrue and unfair. In fact, I have done nothing but praise his behavior in the past three weeks that he has not been drinking, DESPITE HIS POT SMOKING. IF ANYTHING, I HAVE OVERLOOKED HIS FAULTS AND HAVE NOT MENTIONED THEM.
But I do recognize my own codependent behavior which involves how I am very preoccupied with my husband to the point of stressing myself out. I am so worried about him drinking again and becoming irrational that it preoccupies me when I could be focusing more on myself and my own growth.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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Originally Posted by Justbreathe1980
I will know when my codependence becomes pathological when I start to miss work, don't get up out of the bed during the day, start missing my personal appointments, start neglecting my personal hygiene, or if I was to start drinking again because I can't handle the stress of my relationship.
It's sort of like the way we alcoholics say we don't need to quit drinking YET because we haven't (had a DUI, lost a job, wound up in the hospital, wound up in jail). The idea is to recognize the problem behavior and do something about it BEFORE it gets to that point.
Jb, I say this gently, but it seems like whenever someone makes a suggestion or points out something that might be a problem for you down the road, you have to reply and tell us how it doesn't apply to your situation. Maybe not all of it does, but what we are saying is worth thinking about. We've been dealing with these situations, collectively, for a very long time. I realize everyone's situation is, to some extent, individual. But one of the expressions you've probably heard in the rooms of AA is "terminal uniqueness"--that's something that is very common in people who deal with addiction--whether our own or a loved one's. We want to believe that our situation is different from everyone else's, and our own judgment is always the right one. The truth is, we are often too close to our own situations to see certain things clearly. That's part of the benefit of having a sponsor, for instance, or even posting on a site like this where some people may see things more clearly than you do because you are so close to the situation.
I know it's always easier for me to see where someone else might be going a bit off-track than it is for me to see where I have. It's human nature. I'm not saying you do it any more than most of us do--especially in the beginning when we are just starting to figure stuff out. But it really is worth keeping an open mind to the suggestions and insights that other people have to offer.
Hugs,
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Originally Posted by LexieCat
Jb, I say this gently, but it seems like whenever someone makes a suggestion or points out something that might be a problem for you down the road, you have to reply and tell us how it doesn't apply to your situation. Maybe not all of it does, but what we are saying is worth thinking about.
Just let down the walls around one, a bit.
There are many people here that have so much to offer. Their experience, strength and hope isn't them saying "do this, do that."
I find those posts so admirable.
Helpful. Invaluable. No ego. Just everyone trying to help in their own unique ways.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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Originally Posted by Justbreathe1980
But I do recognize my own codependent behavior which involves how I am very preoccupied with my husband to the point of stressing myself out.
I am so worried about him drinking again and becoming irrational that it preoccupies me when I could be focusing more on myself and my own growth.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,256
Originally Posted by Hawkeye13
I think shil's definition is much more in line with how we are using it on this list and how it is understood by most.
Most of us codependents don't miss work, stay in bed all day, miss personal appointments, or neglect getting clean because of our Addicted Spouses.
Usually it's them doing those things while we are attempting to keep them on track with our codependent control of their lives.
[Which doesn't work in the long run, as we all eventually learn].
However, you have also raised the issue of falling back into your own drinking, and I think that is certainly a real risk in your situation.
It seems you are so focused on him and his actions that you may be neglecting building the foundation you need to be strong and solid in your own recovery.
When you lie to your husband about going to Alanon by telling him you are at AA, each time you are cheating yourself of much-needed external support for your own sobriety.
You are so early in your sobriety that it may not have "caught up" to you yet, but it will.
I'm talking as a former alcoholic myself and I gently make the following observation:
if you keep burning your candle at both ends to try to keep him going and yourself, you both are at serious risk.
Taking an alcohol-soaked cruise with a person who gets angry and violent when drinking doesn't seem like a very good idea at this time given your situation either.
You clearly do like to live dangerously, as you posted on another forum. I just hope you stay safe and sober.
Most of us codependents don't miss work, stay in bed all day, miss personal appointments, or neglect getting clean because of our Addicted Spouses.
Usually it's them doing those things while we are attempting to keep them on track with our codependent control of their lives.
[Which doesn't work in the long run, as we all eventually learn].
However, you have also raised the issue of falling back into your own drinking, and I think that is certainly a real risk in your situation.
It seems you are so focused on him and his actions that you may be neglecting building the foundation you need to be strong and solid in your own recovery.
When you lie to your husband about going to Alanon by telling him you are at AA, each time you are cheating yourself of much-needed external support for your own sobriety.
You are so early in your sobriety that it may not have "caught up" to you yet, but it will.
I'm talking as a former alcoholic myself and I gently make the following observation:
if you keep burning your candle at both ends to try to keep him going and yourself, you both are at serious risk.
Taking an alcohol-soaked cruise with a person who gets angry and violent when drinking doesn't seem like a very good idea at this time given your situation either.
You clearly do like to live dangerously, as you posted on another forum. I just hope you stay safe and sober.
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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I have been on at least 6 cruises to the Caribbean. Royal Caribbean ships always offer AA meetings daily, they are titled "Friends of Bill" and are usually held in a closed area during the morning....(sometimes in a closed private bar room).
That being said, I would NOT subject myself to being on a week long cruise with no support with a man who cannot control themselves emotionally or socially. What FUN? is that? what kind of a vacation? Again, you are the babysitter....not on vacation but on Guard Duty. Plus do you plan to drink?
maybe you can reschedule the cruise with your trip insurance and try it 6 months later?
again "HE does not want to"...what about what YOU want? Does he not consider your feelings?
That being said, I would NOT subject myself to being on a week long cruise with no support with a man who cannot control themselves emotionally or socially. What FUN? is that? what kind of a vacation? Again, you are the babysitter....not on vacation but on Guard Duty. Plus do you plan to drink?
maybe you can reschedule the cruise with your trip insurance and try it 6 months later?
again "HE does not want to"...what about what YOU want? Does he not consider your feelings?
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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Originally Posted by Fandy
I have been on at least 6 cruises to the Caribbean. Royal Caribbean ships always offer AA meetings daily, they are titled "Friends of Bill" and are usually held in a closed area during the morning....(sometimes in a closed private bar room).
That being said, I would NOT subject myself to being on a week long cruise with no support with a man who cannot control themselves emotionally or socially. What FUN? is that? what kind of a vacation? Again, you are the babysitter....not on vacation but on Guard Duty. Plus do you plan to drink?
maybe you can reschedule the cruise with your trip insurance and try it 6 months later?
again "HE does not want to"...what about what YOU want? Does he not consider your feelings?
That being said, I would NOT subject myself to being on a week long cruise with no support with a man who cannot control themselves emotionally or socially. What FUN? is that? what kind of a vacation? Again, you are the babysitter....not on vacation but on Guard Duty. Plus do you plan to drink?
maybe you can reschedule the cruise with your trip insurance and try it 6 months later?
again "HE does not want to"...what about what YOU want? Does he not consider your feelings?
I do not plan on drinking, as I have over 30 days of sobriety. He does plan on drinking. I will probably go to some AA meetings, but he is not into AA. I suggested a change in vacation, but he refused.
I am taking a risk here.
The best outcome will be that he stays sober until the cruise, we have a good time on the cruise (even though he will be drinking), and then he resumes his no drinking when we are back. Also remember that he cannot take marijuana with him on the cruise, which he did not last year but was able to smoke some while on one of the ports of call.
I have expressed to my husband the severity of his drinking problem and the risk it poses to our marriage and relationship. It looks like he is choosing to risk all of this to be able to drink on the cruise. And I am not ready to back out just yet, as I am giving him a second chance.
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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Originally Posted by Justbreathe1980
It looks like he is choosing to risk all of this to be able to drink on the cruise. And I am not ready to back out just yet, as I am giving him a second chance.
I went through multiple cycles of this with my XABF, so unfortunately, I know how it feels.
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
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Originally Posted by spiderqueen
It doesn't seem like your husband gives a rat's a** for this precious second chance. It's more likely he's biding his time and waiting for the dust to settle so he can resume his drinking habits. In fact, he's already announced as much.
I went through multiple cycles of this with my XABF, so unfortunately, I know how it feels.
I went through multiple cycles of this with my XABF, so unfortunately, I know how it feels.
It was a huge blow to me when I realized that my ex was willing to choose alcohol over our relationship and family. It hurt me a lot and it was very difficult for me to accept. Frankly it made me feel worthless (even more than I already did, which is saying something).
I am grateful for Alanon which helped me to understand his disease (and mine) and restore my sense of self worth. Keep working your programs and try not to future trip all the way until March. It's not even Christmas yet. You don't have to do anything today except work your own recovery.
Hugs and strength to you JustBreathe. Take care.
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You've been counting so much on the fact that he's not drinking as a way to feel safe around him. But you are going on a cruise with him where he has already said he plans to drink.
Aren't you going to feel on edge the whole time? Where is the relaxation and fun for you? He's an alcoholic, so he's not likely to be enjoying the couple of drinks at dinner and a nightcap. "Less belligerent" doesn't sound like a very pleasant traveling companion.
Aren't you going to feel on edge the whole time? Where is the relaxation and fun for you? He's an alcoholic, so he's not likely to be enjoying the couple of drinks at dinner and a nightcap. "Less belligerent" doesn't sound like a very pleasant traveling companion.
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Oh good grief!!! do NOT get caught with ANY DRUGS in a port...they WARN YOU about all of this when you get off and on the ship....the legal ramifications could be a flipping nightmare along with expenses.
so your entire "vacation" depends on his ability to get high and drink?
"he is not willing" to do much of anything he doesn't want to.....
as they say around here....he is SHOWING YOU WHO HE IS....BELIEVE HIM.
at the risk of being negative Nancy...I think he will be drinking and picking fights with you long before March. I hope I am wrong.
Your whole world is tied up in what he wants....can you see this? I am not berating you, but he sounds like a selfish, self-centered child.
so your entire "vacation" depends on his ability to get high and drink?
"he is not willing" to do much of anything he doesn't want to.....
as they say around here....he is SHOWING YOU WHO HE IS....BELIEVE HIM.
at the risk of being negative Nancy...I think he will be drinking and picking fights with you long before March. I hope I am wrong.
Your whole world is tied up in what he wants....can you see this? I am not berating you, but he sounds like a selfish, self-centered child.
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From what I've gathered from your posts the last few weeks I've noticed that you base your emotions on HIS emotions. That to me , is codependence. If he is stoned 24/7 and feeling good, then you are enjoying the peace. If he wants to drink an ANNUAL drink for a cruise, you are looking ways to defend and understand his behavior. You remain skeptical and come here for advice, but ultimately your emotions are based off his. Detachment is something I have been reading and learning about a lot lately and I think you might benefit a lot from that. You seem to change your boundaries quite a bit to accomadate his drinking or behavior. I don't think you should have to sacrifice yourself like that anymore. Your destroying yourself when you compromise such behaviors. I'm working on it myself...it is hard. Hugs
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Originally Posted by Hawkeye13
So your relationship is less important to him than drinking on the cruise?
JB, it really sounds like he's telling you something about his priorities here--maybe you need to listen.
JB, it really sounds like he's telling you something about his priorities here--maybe you need to listen.
When we return home, we will have to stop again.
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Originally Posted by spiderqueen
It doesn't seem like your husband gives a rat's a** for this precious second chance. It's more likely he's biding his time and waiting for the dust to settle so he can resume his drinking habits. In fact, he's already announced as much.
I went through multiple cycles of this with my XABF, so unfortunately, I know how it feels.
I went through multiple cycles of this with my XABF, so unfortunately, I know how it feels.
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Originally Posted by ladyscribbler
It was a huge blow to me when I realized that my ex was willing to choose alcohol over our relationship and family. It hurt me a lot and it was very difficult for me to accept. Frankly it made me feel worthless (even more than I already did, which is saying something).
I am grateful for Alanon which helped me to understand his disease (and mine) and restore my sense of self worth. Keep working your programs and try not to future trip all the way until March. It's not even Christmas yet. You don't have to do anything today except work your own recovery.
Hugs and strength to you JustBreathe. Take care.
I am grateful for Alanon which helped me to understand his disease (and mine) and restore my sense of self worth. Keep working your programs and try not to future trip all the way until March. It's not even Christmas yet. You don't have to do anything today except work your own recovery.
Hugs and strength to you JustBreathe. Take care.
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Originally Posted by LexieCat
You've been counting so much on the fact that he's not drinking as a way to feel safe around him. But you are going on a cruise with him where he has already said he plans to drink.
Aren't you going to feel on edge the whole time? Where is the relaxation and fun for you? He's an alcoholic, so he's not likely to be enjoying the couple of drinks at dinner and a nightcap. "Less belligerent" doesn't sound like a very pleasant traveling companion.
Aren't you going to feel on edge the whole time? Where is the relaxation and fun for you? He's an alcoholic, so he's not likely to be enjoying the couple of drinks at dinner and a nightcap. "Less belligerent" doesn't sound like a very pleasant traveling companion.
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