Hangnbyathread

I hope it doesn't get deleted. I applaud you for saying this.

AW1111

I have been educating myself and attending Alanon regularly, as well as marriage counseling with my Rah. I feel great as far as how my life is going...but I know I have some unresolved issues (such as really forgiving myself, and my RAH) that I want to work through in my own program.

Like I had mentioned earlier I am having a very difficult time finding a sponsor for myself to work the steps. I haven't been able to connect with someone that I feel comfortable with who is willing to become my sponsor. There was one gentlemen who I thought would be a great sponsor, but he refused to work with me because I was a "young female". So a bit discouraged at the moment. My personal therapist has been working with me so that has really been helping.

Everyone keeps bringing up a good point...how can anyone work a program without a sponsor or going through steps? What are the options for working a program without a sponsor? Like in my case? What if I can't connect with anyone?

schnappi99

I'm in alanon. Its a suggested program of recovery, you interpret it for yourself- its whatever you make it. A sponsor you connect with can (will) help but its your recovery. What really helped me a bunch early on was listening to AA and Alanon speaker recordings- many are personal experiences, others are more technical 12-Step presentations.

As I got a few months into recovery I started a short-list of candidates for a sponsor- I got to the point where I wanted to start working the steps since that seems like where the action is. So I watched and listened to the people on the short list, eventually maybe 6 mos in I asked the guy who is mine.

I'm male- no way I would sponsor a woman, there is way too much opportunity for emotions to get involved. I listened to one technical share where the gender selection problem was dicussed. The presenter proposed that a gay man should consider a woman, lesbian a man etc.. its kind of funny to consider the permutations but underneath its serious too; have to be very careful about how sensitive stuff is shared.

That said I do have a couple female friends-in-program, we are all very careful to keep things on a "5th step" sort of basis- program centered etc. So far its worked out- the conversations relate very personal issues but staying on the program's message and rules has kept it safe and its been really helpful. But as far as suggestions about interpreting the program or if something blew up with Mrs Schnap, call #1 is to my sponsor.

AW1111

Thank you for the feedback everyone. I really appreciate it.

Fly N Buy

I will add this......Regardless of sponsor or not, the Program of AA is indeed the steps. The fellowship is wonderful, and 90 in 90 is terrific (me too). But meetings and fellowship will not alone keep most on track is my experience.

Step work is critical.

Sounds like he is changing - willing and committed!!
That is AWEWSOME!
Good for both of you!

desypete

for me the aa meetings and the fellowship kept me sober for my first 2 years in aa
i came into aa with nothing left, i had no money, no family, etc so aa and people in it took care of me

i got to trust aa and the fellowship but when i first came in i wouldnt trust anyone or anything

they told me to do 90 meetings in 90 days and the reason was so i could get out of my flat were i was on my own and out amongst others in aa meetings

it worked as the more i went the more i started to hear things

i got all the practical help in the world for example how to clean my shoes when there was no aa meeting or it was way to late to call anyone, not that i could call anyone as i had no phone and hardly any money

but people did tell me to call them from a call box and ring them and put the phone down and they would call me back and i used to do this at times if i needed help

so i have nothing but total admiraton for what the aa fellowship did for me in my early days and it still keeps on doing it for me 10 years on although now i have been through the steps and my way of life and thinking has changed a great deal i still recomend anyone to do 90 meetings in 90 days as i know what it did for me

of course if people come into aa and they still have wives and familys and jobs and some clear thinking then i guess giving them a book to read and a step program will work for them a lot quicker than it would work for a down and out like me

but for me it was 2 years before i took the steps but in the mean time i had grown just by being around other sober members who guided me so much

i still get my guidance from the fellowship in the meetings as to me that's where the power is, its where i went to find help and got the help, if i could get the help from a god well then i wouldn't need to go to aa at all i could just go to a church and get it there hence i came to believe in a different power than a god for me.

so today i would say there is a whole package deal on offer in aa from the book to the steps to the meetings

do the lot and you can only end up in a good place.

happybeingme

Justbreathe- you do the steps without a sponsor by just doing them. If you are confused or need help ask someone in AA or attend a step study meeting or even ask here.

Another forum I belonged to had a guy living in the Philippines. There were zero meetings. He did the steps on the forum. Without the details. He wrote out what he thought each step meant and how he should do them. He has been sober almost 9 years.

I think in the end all that matters is how much you want a sober life. You will find your way if you are willing

LexieCat

Actually, the Big Book gives precise instructions for how the Steps are to be worked. Only Step 5 calls for another person to be involved, and that could be a spiritual advisor, a therapist, any trustworthy person (NOT a spouse or partner--that would be a big mistake).

AA also has the "12 and 12" (12 Steps and 12 Traditions) that has insightful essays about the meaning of each Step.

I think the primary value of a sponsor is to help us see where we are deluding ourselves, playing games in our heads, trying to rationalize, etc. And also, because your sponsor hopefully was sponsored him/herself by someone who in turn was sponsored, etc., it is a way of passing the message of recovery as it was originally intended.

Carlotta

This is my second time in recovery (I had 5 years before).
I went through the steps with my sponsor my first time around. Her and I were very close, I trusted her fully. Unfortunately she passed away and I still miss her dearly.
When I went back into recovery, I did the steps exactly like she made me do them: using the big book. I did my 5th with a priest. I do have a home group with quite a few women who have very long term sobriety (I mean 20/30 years) and who are always available if I hit a "bump". I also do service work etc.. (meaning I am involved in AA not just on the fringes).
A sponsor is a good thing to have especially if someone is brand new to AA and need guidance with the steps but it is not a requirement by any means.

Carlotta

I just wanted to add for AW: if you look on the other side of this site, you will find a lot of people who are sober and not going to AA. Two of the main mods (Anna and Dee) are not in AA but have long term sobriety. Your husband seems to be doing good and working on his recovery, just be glad he is and work on your own.

When I initially went into recovery, my BF at the time was a raging drunk who was going in and out of rehabs and detox etc. I worn myself ragged trying to supervise his recovery. Among other crazy things I would;
- Call his sponsor.
- Check his big book on a regular basis to see if it showed some new notes or wear and tear
- Sit at a cafe accross from his Saturday meeting to see if he actually went there or not
- Thoroughly disapprove of the fact that his sponsor used notebooks to put him through the steps and no the BB
- Blame the sponsor using those notebooks for his relapses...

and more LOL
Basically I was way too busy trying to supervise his (lack of) recovery to focus on my own recovery. I did not drink but I was a complete basket case. Al Anon really saved my sanity.

CodeJob

There are fine step studies available right here on SR. For Al Anon, i did steps 1-3 solo using just SR. I did step 4 with a therapist and then my HP sent in my sponsor. I tag teamed between them. Doing the steps has been exceedingly worthwhile for me and I'm only on 7.

I wish you both well.

Friends and Family Step Study - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

Alcoholism-12 Step Support - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

Hammer

SUPER!

Oh I fully understand. For guys, in general, it is slim pickins, as well. Not many guys with much time to ask among. They are probably right on the cross-sex stuff. Like I have said on here that I had a female type for 1, 2, 3, but her sponsor said that was far enough before she sent me on.

Kind of funny, long years back . . . . about 4 before I met Mrs. Hammer -- she went to bed with her first AA sponsor -- female type. Folks can make all this as big a mess as they are.

Fully understand that. I was desperate and crying to God (this time) before I found my Step Study Men's Group. In truth, I could not have dreamed or created something like that. First time into the steps, I made it to 4, life got (much, much, much) better. I . . . . (very shameful thing) . . . . dumped Alanon, until life crashed again and we wound up homeless.

I got back to Alanon REALLY quick then. And like on here, did not really get to doing the steps until I was sort of dogged into them by a Plumber. I am an Electrical Guy so that is Really Lame when a Plumber can tell you that you are dumb-ass for being in a Steps Program and not working the Steps.

[You understand, that is why I am not shy about being "pushy" with you or others? Because THAT was what I needed, and if it is the case for you, I do not want to drive by and leave you stuck in the ditch, when I see that? Sorry for being too pushy from time-to-time.]

But when I was such a mess, I sought God and wound up right where I should be in that regard.

So at any rate -- Do Not Ask us is what I would advise. This is ALL a GOD thing. So Ask God. God will hook you up with a Sponsor for you.

Don't think so? Here, give it a try with me.

============

Dear God,

Please Guide our friend, AW to find a Sponsor, according to Your will and Your way. And Grant us All the Wisdom, Strength and Courage to follow You.

Amen.

============

Not bragging about my God, but . . . okay, bragging about my God . . . but as a caution -- when God's boot hits your butt, you Will be launched. I would recommend to stay kneeling down in launch position.

Sing along if you would like . . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO5Y1OuQIxo

Hammer

When I used to work Deep Nights (Texas Summer, no A/C in my Warehouse/Shop), I would listen to some crazy late night radio. One of my favorites was a Radio Preacher who specialized in Prison Ministry.

He had Prison Guys doing Prison Cell Baptisms with the Cell Toilet.

God is where we need to find God.

Hammer

Testify, Sister.

Confuzd

I have been sober for almost a year thru the program of AA and I have never had a sponsor. Here is how I worked the Steps:

Steps 1 thru 3 I worked alone
Steps 4 and 5, I worked with someone in AA, she helped me write down my Step 4 and I shared it with her, this is Step 5.
Steps 6 and 7 I worked alone
Steps 8 and 9, I made the amends I knew I had to do immediately, I asked other people in AA for advice on which amends to make and which to leave alone
Steps 10 - 12 I continue to work on alone

The Big Book of AA has instructions on how to work the Steps, no where does it say you need a sponsor to work the steps. I know some people who have done Step 5 with a clergy person, it doesn't have to be someone in AA.

The reason I don't have a sponsor is because I am afraid if I do, I will become too dependent on that one person. I only want to be dependent on my Higher Power and the fellowship of AA.

So I do not think everyone needs a sponsor.

I can understand why a spouse would be worried that if an A does not get a sponsor immediately then they are not working the program seriously enough. That being said some people seem to do very well with a sponsor and some do very well without one.

AW1111

Thank you. That is why I had reached out and asked this question...not to be involved with my RAH treatment, but to stick with my boundaries. My big boundary is that my RAH needs to be actively working a program. I was trying to get some clarification if he wasn't working the steps with a sponsor but still attending AA and doing the other things he had committed to, If that was actually working a program. Does that make sense? I'm just trying to educate myself and not completely turn a blind eye so I don't get blind sided. But that doesn't mean I am not actively working on myself and my own recovery which I am very committed to.

Thank you EVERYONE one for taking the time to post your input. It really helps hearing different opinions and takes on this subject. It is also a comforting reminder that there are so many people going through the same thing as me, and that in itself is healing for me.

LexieCat

AW, you might want to re-think that boundary of yours a bit. I'm not sure how realistic or healthy it is for you to have one that involves your monitoring his program. That seems to be crossing the line into "control" territory.

Boundaries are to protect YOU, not to reach over onto his side of the street. Whether he works a program or not doesn't affect you, at least not directly. If he remains sober and does not engage in behavior that harms you, whether or how he "works a program" should not be relevant to you. If he does all the recommended "program" things and treats you badly or behaves in unacceptable ways, that doesn't protect you.

Maybe you should consider re-thinking that "boundary."

AnvilheadII

is that my RAH needs to be actively working a program

that is not a boundary. that is a condition. and one that is impossible to gauge unless you actively MONITOR his activities and even then....recovery is an INSIDE job.....you can't get into his head, read his thoughts, or determine his commitment level.

you can only watch his actions. sober looks like sober, recovery LOOKS like recovery.

my husband and I are 8 year out of crack addiction. to this day I do not know what it was that finally clicked FOR HIM....what his internal landscape looks like, how hard or easy it is FOR HIM. I do not know what his spirituality looks like - what he believes in, or if he does. I do not know what he has processed about his past, what agreements he made with himself, what demons he slayed. I've never asked. because it is absolutely none of my business......it's entirely personal and if he wanted to share, he would.

neither of us, this time around with recovery, have been to a single meeting. I have been a long time member on SR. he had 3 terms in rehab before we met. he attended meetings at the AA hall that was once my home group. I believe SOME of that remains relevant today, but as to HOW he WORKS it? dunno.

what I SEE is a man who gets up every day to go work a physically grueling job, and comes home without delay - no more pub runs, no money flying out of the account. I see a man who is actively engaged in our home, our home life, our dogs. a man who loves to cook and somewhere along the way surpassed me as a chef. a man who treats me like a friend, someone he likes and respects, who cares about my wellbeing. who was really sad yesterday when the bald eagle snagged a duck and then landed in the neighbor's tree, and tore into it. who laughs easy. who will only shush me if there is something about the packers or the hawks on sportscenter. who takes leftovers to our neighbors across the street. who recently put on a few pounds, and waist line has thickened just a bit and for the first time in his life (50 now!) couldn't button a pair of work pants. and had to haul out his "fat" pants! lol

Hammer

ohhhh. You see, to me THAT is a "sponsor" or a least a Steps Sponsor.

Maybe we are all sort of saying the same, same. Dunno.

But yeah, I follow that some folks have to call a/their sponsor nearly daily some years after like they are getting permission for which socks to put on.

Not really what I think of a being a good thing. The goal of the Program is to get you/us functional in a good way, and help others. Not create a new dependency, right?

THAT (just my humble) comes a little closer to Codie. And about how I see some other folks in my life operate (peeking across the fence, myself, now) that do not run a real tight program.

But that (if she / they are reading this) is THEIR problem and none of my concern.

Really -- do what works for YOU, and gets you through the Steps.

It is amazing to me to see the Self-Inflicted stuff we (me too) will / have go through to evade just doing the Steps.

schnappi99

Yeah, thanks all.. I was thinking about my posts on this thread. There are slim pickins as a guy in Alanon.. I guess we're pretty lucky around here nearly 1/3 men in some of the meetings- and I guess my short-list idea worked because there were enough to choose between.

It might be worth considering going to some AA meetings and think about some of the guys there who show strong recovery. My sponsor is a double-winner, he goes to both types of meetings- he sponsors people on both sides of the fence.

I've chatted with some alanon'ers who are in frequent contact w/ their sponsor- lots of detailed conversation. I talk with mine once or twice a week but the most valuable things for me that he's said have been in his meeting shares. Day to day though, making connections w/ other folks and talking program stuff with them has been a huge help.

I'm part-way thru Step 4, its been tremendously helpful in all sorts of ways. In my homegroup there are a few who do the steps periodically, some are part-way thru the 1st- some slogging along some not. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few who have never done them. Whatever works though.. not for me to critique regardless.