carmen303

I was at a gathering recently; a group a mature professional couples. I observed that many of the older couples were quite the drinkers. I noticed just about everyone was loosing up a bit after a few drinks. In fact one (very nice lady) was quite drunk. Another lady told me her husband drinks 2 martinis every night. I said what about mornings? She said, "no. he doesn't do that, that's an alcoholic".

So, this left me to wonder, drinking 2 martinis EVERY night of your life ... isn't that alcoholism?

How can people ever get better when it's at all social gatherings? When mature people get drunk, it also makes me think this is the norm for them. Seems like so many people have this problem.

Once a person turns to drinking in the morning, is it really that much worse?

hopeful4

I don't think it's a certain limit. When it starts to have negative impacts on your life, it's an issue.

biminiblue

Trying to define another's alcoholism is a lot like trying to nail jello to a tree.

I found that if drinking was a problem, not drinking was the solution. It doesn't make any difference what I called it or what time it was when I drank - the fact was that it had a grip on me and I had to have it.

AndyFTH

2 martiny every day - not an alcoholic, he isn't raising dosage, he don't drink until passing out, just 2 drinks, then stops, not loosing control

lillamy

"Alcoholism" is generally used as a term to describe the drinking habits of other people.

I've heard people say "he's not an alcoholic because he only drinks beer" and "he's not an alcoholic because he only drinks on weekends" and "she's not an alcoholic because she's never missed a day of work"... usually, it's defined so that you fall outside the definition. My ex said he wasn't an alcoholic because "I can quit whenever I want to." Ha. Right.

FireSprite

^^This, totally. I think it crosses the line into alcoholism on the first drink for many, but the effects of that may not be seen for decades in some cases.

I think alcoholism is defined more about the emotional relationship a person has with the drink initially vs. any kind of physical need or dependence. It's not as simple as measuring it by volume or frequency or whatever because it's more about the mentality behind WHY a person drinks.

He may not be an alcoholic at all, or maybe he depends on those 2 daily drinks more than either of them realize & it's a non-issue until he starts physically needing more or tries to quit & finds that he can't. Who knows?

IMO (not fact, just opinion) drinking in the mornings sounds like the physical dependence has grown tremendously & is a squeakier wheel than the original emotional attachment. That kind of physical dependency makes detoxing more dangerous, and even after breaking that bond the emotional/spiritual/latent/deeper issues still need to be addressed for a chance at full recovery.

LeeJane

As an A, for me it wasn't about how much or what time of the day I did it, it was the mental obsession with alcohol. I rearranged my whole life around giving me access to alcohol when I wanted it. It became the top of my list of priorities. I lost interest in all other things.

SDH73

*biminiblue*

"if drinking is the problem, not drinking is the solution"

My new mantra! Thanks for that!

NYCDoglvr

No, doesn't sound like it to me. An alcoholic can't STOP at two martinis.

hopeful4

I have a client who passed away this year. She was 103 years old, and in amazingly good mental and physical shape. She attributed it to the two toddys she had at noon each day! I was invited several times but would always just take my soda instead as I don't drink much and that is in the middle of my work day LOL.

Actually her brother passed away not long before her, they were very close. I always wonder if she did not pass from a broken heart.

LexieCat

You can drink unhealthy amounts of alcohol without being an alcoholic.

And all "drinking in the morning" (when it happens on a regular basis) means is that the withdrawals (which I had on a daily basis when I quit, and which did lead to drinking on many mornings) are uncomfortable enough that it takes a drink to feel "normal". You can be an alcoholic without ever drinking in the morning, though, and some people occasionally have a morning drink and it doesn't mean a thing except that they felt like having the bloody mary or whatever.

It's all about what alcohol does for you, and how important it is in your life. Once it becomes something you are mentally obsessed with, that's a pretty sure sign.

Liberator4EVA

It's a difficult one for sure. Two of the problem drinkers in my life may have had BPD. Their behaviour was a little abnormal when sober - after even a small quantity of alchohol it became unbearable. Unfortunately they chose to self medicate with something that made their condition worse.

The other drinker i knew well and lived with for quite a few years, had his nightly four pack/six pack but acted quite normally, nobody minded his habit. Fast forward a decade or so, personality changes are starting to occur and his drinking is starting to become a problem for people around him. Unfortunately , he's now physically dependant. The time to stop was ten years ago, when nobody could see the need.

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A few month's back, I pondered this question. If substance abuse is evil , what's the difference between the partying me and my long-standing friends from student days did, and the problem drinkers in my life?

Here's what i wrote in notepad, that afternoon -

Our "Partying/Raving/Bohemian lifestyle @ college" vs Alcoholism

Relatively infrequent - sober vast majority of the time
Chronic - intoxicated vast majority of the time

Group activity - we'd get intoxicated together, and try to maintain a similar level of intoxication as one another
Solo pursuit - being intoxicated while those around you are not

Open - we shared with one another, what we had consumed and what we were feeling
Furtive - attempting to conceal one's intoxication/consumption

Planned - event would be planned weeks ahead
Impulse driven - the alcoholic probably starts the day intending not to drink at all, but does so regardless

Acting responsiby - trying not to get too intoxicated so as to a) "stay on the same page" as your companions b) not become tiresome/act like a wierdo c) not require "looking after" as a result of over-indulgence

Inconsiderate - causes problems for people around them with their mood swings and antisocial behaviour, relies on people around them to "enable"

Perhaps i make too much of this difference. Getting wasted is getting wasted, but we all think it's ok when we do it, but not other people. All I know is, memories of one invoke warm feelings of bonding, cameraderie, adventure... the other fear. Did me and my friends ever frighten people?

SmartyPants

hmmm. i love these tricky ones that make you think. one aspect of my alcoholism is that although alcoholic, i could both control and enjoy my drinking ... just not both at the same time!

also, someone at a meeting said recently "don't think i'm alcoholic coz i can stop anytime. it's just the bloody craving that gets to me me when i do!"

(go nottingham uk! )

AnvilheadII

it isn't what or when or how much one drinks that MAKES them an alcoholic, it's what the alcohol does TO and FOR them that makes the difference.

not everyone who drinks has a problem.

not every problem drinker is an alcoholic.

but for the alcoholic, drinking of any amount IS a problem. the idea of ONE drink is simply nonsense...why even bother? be like if you went into a 4 star steak house and ordered the porterhouse and were only allowed ONE bite. but EVERYBODY else around the table gets to eat every last morsel.

lovesymphony

I've been wondering this myself lately. Alcoholics are never supposed to drink-common knowledge but no one agrees 100% on its definition. I would say the obsession is an indicator, and/or if you can't stick with just one or two drinks

Stung

I think one becomes an alcoholic when alcohol becomes a problem in their life and they continue to imbibe.

My father in law for example. He doesn't drink more than 3 drinks a day but he drinks every single day of the year and makes a point to tell everyone that he drinks every single day of the year. Further, he cannot skip a day. Regardless of whether he's having 3 or 30 beers the obsession is still there. It's not a matter of quantity. It's a matter of the behavior system and thought processes around alcohol.

If the use of a substance is causing you to have problems then that is a very good sign that you should stop using it. FIL has 5 kids, 3 of them are alcoholics and one of them died drunk driving. Personally, I don't think I'd ever pick up another drink if one of my children died drunk driving. FIL still makes a point to drink every single day while two of his other children are struggling with alcoholism.

LexieCat

fairlyuncertain

Unfortunately, I think a lot of the self-reported information we have about alcohol consumption is lies. If alcoholics were EVER truthful about their consumption, science might have a really good idea about when, and how, people cross the line into problem drinking.

For my exA, he'd insist up and down and sideways that he had two drinks. It was a lie. And the two he was counting? Triples or quadruples, forget doubles! And the bottle in the garage? That never got counted either.

So many social drinkers don't have a problem, but the data is muddied, I think, by alcoholics concealing their addiction.

Hangnbyathread

+1 on this! I know plenty of people that can drink for the enjoyment of what that moment brings and then go about their lives back normally. Heck I drink alcohol on occasion. Someone can even get drunk and still be OK. Its the fact that some cannot stop until a certain physiological reaction takes place that makes them an alcoholic.

My AGF says its the zone that she always needed to stay in that made her feel the right amount of numb. If she didn't feel it daily her body would start to go into withdrawals.