hopeful4

YOU ARE NOT DAFT! You are an amazing and wonderful person, don't ever think that.

I guess what I am saying is that everything cannot be blamed on alcohol. He is making choices in how he wants to treat others, it does not matter why even. What does matter is that you did not cause it, cannot control it, and cannot cure it. Go back to the basics.

I know you are hurting and I don't mean to be callous at all. I just think so much of this you are agonizing over and you have no control over it.

Tight hugs my friend. XXX

ps...I do think your DS is old enough to pass on info to you. And it will be easier for you to hear it from him. Basically, don't depend on anything from your X, especially any rational thought.

Butterfly

Thanks sungrl lol oh I know I've always lifted and laid for my kids and AH and still do for my kids. DS has to get up at 6am for school and I have always had a thing about my kids getting themselves up and out for school/college etc, I did as a child and hated having no one up and about with me in the mornings to see me off. That said I do do to much for them esp DD who is now 20 and has slacked off with her responsibilities around the house since he left as if she didn't do it he would shout and go on and on at her so I have laced in that area aswell. Time they started helping out more again!!

Butterfly

Thanks hopeful your right regardless of the alcohol he's making choices and his choice is alcohol and having no responsibilities unless he decides he wants to and if it interferes with his drinking then that comes first. Thank you for reminding me to go back to basics.

amy55

Butterfly,

One thing I never want you to do is to try to hide your feelings or cover them up for us. I read your first post here. I know how that feels to feel like you don't exist. I think I had mentioned here a few times that my boundaries got so low that I was willing to accept that he treat me like I existed.

When I was married, most times I felt like I had duct tape on my mouth and that I had a straight jacket on, and I was sitting in a corner, and he would just walk past me like I didn't exist.

I felt invisible. I couldn't understand how he could tell me that he loved me, then spit on me, and ignore me like I didn't even exist.

I don't want you to push that under the rug, because it is a very strong feeling.

Mine also ran away from home, and then would promise me the moon, until he didn't anymore.

I don't know how to tell you how to get over that. I don't know how I did. I just never want to see his face or hear his voice ever again. I do wish him well though. Just not around me.

I just wanted to validate your feelings. I had them also. I could never explain that.

Just have to go with everyone else here, no contact, no contact, no contact!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any contact I had with him either devastated me, or gave me hope. (Imagined hope, it was all in my own head)

When I left, my friends let me stay in the home that they purchased for their retirement. They weren't going to move in for 2 years, just would come up for the weekends.

I painted that entire house, took off wall paper, repaired walls, painted the fridge, the cement floors in the basement. It took my mind off of "him" and it gave me a hobby, plus the added benefit, the compliments that I got from my friends for this helped to raise my self esteem, and self confidence.

So why would I tell you about me? I don't know !!! I think I am trying to say find something that you like to do that you will feel proud of yourself for doing it.

I think for too long we were just hoping and holding on to the person that destroyed all of this in us, to replace it for us, or to give it back to us. It doesn't work that way. We need to do it for ourselves. We are strong enough to do this. Who else could have put up with our lives, we did. We are strong, and we are survivors.

(((((((((((hugs))))))))))

amy

amy55

I just thought about this a little more. The thing with them treating us like we didn't exist. I think after awhile, (and yes, I know we fought this) I think we started to do the same thing to ourselves. I know for me, I didn't want people to see me, (I isolated), didn't want to go out, didn't want a hobby, didn't want anything. I wanted to just disappear, so, I don't know, that perhaps I would see the same thing he saw. NOTHING.

I do hope you are not doing this to yourself, like I did it to me.

Yes, my ex filed for a divorce against me. I somewhat pushed him to do that. I wanted his pride to hold him back from ever contacting me again. If he filed, his pride would have held him back from admitting he made a mistake. I now think that if I had filed it would have been the same. I lived in "limboland" for a long time. Something had to happen. I couldn't go back to living the way that I was living anymore. I had no life. I wanted no life. I didn't want to feel or care anymore.

I think you will understand what I was talking about. Sometimes I just don't know if I make any sense.

((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))
amy

Butterfly

Thanks Amy. You talk a lot of sense ��. Yes I do isolate myself because I don't want to keep bothering people and then they won't leave because they are fed up with me I feel I am better on my own sometimes. I get up every morning get ready for work dress nice put my make up on and put on a front that I'm doing good but it's exhaustingand when the weekend comes I hide away! I'm on anti depressants and see my counsellor weekly and I went back to university, which I think at times was too much too soon as my job is so demanding I don't have the energy or time to devote the time needed. I do keep busy at the weekend with cooking and cleaning exciting stuff eh

It does hurt that he behaves as though I don't exist after everything I have been through with him and all the support love and care I have given him and stupidly I still hang onto his words of being in love with me and not wanting a divorce even when he then tells me he does want a divorce and isn't in love with me because the next day or the next time I speak to him it's he is in love with me and doesn't want a divorce. It has been 2 weeks since I last had contact and I have come so close to contacting him the last few days but I haven't as I know how it will end up, me feeling hurt and confused!! He texted DD today saying he knows she angry that he left but divorce will hurt us all! She said this was the first he had mentioned it to her. I cried for 2 hours after DD told me that because I guess I never really believed he would go through with it. My fault as I don't look at his actions and I know I should not listen to his words.

The last conversation I had with him was him telling me one minute how much he is in love with me and how he is losing everything his wife, his best friend, the love of his life to the next minute he's not in love with me then he is but divorce is the only way as he needs to let me move on and not waste time on him how he will end up a lonely drunk how he feels a deep sense of loss how that will probably get worse and he will probably regret his decision for the rest of his life and how he's truly sorry for both of us and how he will have to deal with the guilt for the rest of his life it's his fault and he needs to be punished for that but he's not going to get help. I have hung onto the positives words the words I have wanted to hear and ignored the rest convincing myself that he loves me and we will get through this holding onto all the times he said he never wanted to live without me. When his actions have shown me very clearly that drink is his priority always has been and he struggled with his drinking all our marriage even before. I gave myself false hope

I have pushed aswell Amy for answers from him instead of leaving him alone and accepting what has happened. But sometimes the answers are what I want to hear and sometimes they're not so I don't listen and keep going over and over in my mind what else he has said! I feel angry with myself today for being so stupid to have allowed myself to remain with someone who's actions have shown throughout our marriage that me and the kids are not his priority and only have been when it suited him.

In my professional life I am a big believer in my gut instinct yet I never listened to it during my marriage I sought reassurance from someone who manipulated me so he could continue to keep drinking and doing things his way, finances, kids etc yet he never did anything to ease my anxiety I believed all the it won't happen again I'm going to get help please don't leave me for him to leave me when I became serious about him seeking help. If I hadn't he would probably still be here and we would co it ue the cycle of binge, remorse, promises, failing to keep promises and repeat. I am grateful I am no longer in that cycle and my anxiety has decreased so much, still needs some work but I am working on it!!

Thank you for listening and sorry it's all about him AGAIN!!!!

CodeJob

Butterfly,

Sit down and figure out where you need help and why you are not letting your kids step up. Write it down. Pray about it. You work, you go to school. You've got enough to not have all the cooking, cleaning, laundry on your shoulders.

Then have a family meeting and lay out where you need help and what they need to start doing for themselves. On paper. Stick it on your fridge. That will make your new family responsibilities clear. If people don't follow through, make some yuck chore the repercussions of not doing your list.

When I was 16 I cut grass, cooked meals, grocery shopped, cleaned the house, did family laundry, took care of the dog, got my buns to school, & got good grades. Your kids can step up. It's likely they will whine and initially do a poor job. Correct the poor job by showing them how you want it done, th en walk away from their responsibility again!

No more being everyone's handmaiden. You need to have a little freedom too, dont you think?

As for your A and his mixed messages, so you rode the denial train too long. I think you are angry at yourself about that. Personally I think him going NC might be a GOOD thing for you. You are addicted to him.

Boundaries. Codependency. Read up sweet pea! Practice with your kids.

Butterfly

I am addicted to him!!!

I'm not complaining about cleaning and cooking to be fair it gives me something to do at the weekends but yes my kids do need to step up!!

Butterfly

And yes I am angry with myself for listening to his words and refusing to look at his actions his words always convinced me differently but that's because I let them! ��

dandylion

Butterfly...you, I respectfully remind you that you don't NEED "something to do at weekends". You need that time for leisure and rest as well as for time to attend to your studies. These are the things that will return the value to you.
Co-dependents have to LEARN to give to themselves without false "guilt".

Housework does not last...it can all be undone in a matter of hours...lol!!

Responsibility to the home can increase the self-esteem of young people. It actually helps them to feel more secure. They learn that they are IMPORTANT to the family structure. It gives a feeling of accomplishment as well as teaching important life skills that they are going to need when they don't have you to step and fetch all the time!
(I am just sharing my experience as a mother who had to operate as a single parent for 3 little ones).

dandylion

amy55

Butterfly,

I understand where you are right now. You are still stuck on that merry-go-round. I was stuck there for so many years.

When I think back now, I really don't know if I was on it because I truly loved him, or because I felt like I had no control on the outcome of things.

What he is actually doing to you right now is the Silent Treatment. He runs away from home, you sometimes talk to him, but is he listening to a word that you said? You know he isn't, I knew my ex didn't hear me, so we start to feel invisible, like we don't exist.

The more I felt that my words weren't heard, the more I wanted my words to be heard. I felt like I had no control. So in a way, I really don't know if I was "addicted" to him, or I just wanted to have some control in my life. At that time I didn't really know life without him, I was stuck on that merry-go-round, and that is all I knew. I just wanted to be heard, and my feelings acknowledged. It wasn't going to happen. Sometimes for a short period of time he would come back, but then he left again.

Alcohol may have played a part in it, but I think my ex needed more help then just putting down the bottle. It was in his personality to act like that.

It took me a really long time to see that I was addicted more to the control, because I felt I lost it, then I was to him. I couldn't control him and the outcome of our marriage, but I could control my path in life.

I made a list of pros and cons of him being in my life. There were a lot of cons, almost filled up a whole sheet of paper, both sides, then I looked at the pro side.

I don't want to be lonely ------ I quickly moved that to the con side. I was more lonely with him in my life then with him out of my life.

He does things for me around the house ------moved that one over also. He disappeared, ran away from home, who was the one taking care of everything. It was me.

I love him? ------- Why? I wanted someone to love me, hold me, care for me, respect me, be there for me. Where was he? I don't know !!!!! It was a fantasy that I didn't want to give up.

I think that if you can think about it more as a loss of control, and not as an addiction to him, it might help you.

You do have control, it's just that you only have it over your own life.

(((((((((((hugs)))))))))))) I do know how hard this is for you
amy

Butterfly

Dandylion thank you. They do have chores around the house but I've become lax about enforcing them!! I don't like sitting about doing nothing that's when I think too much so don't like relaxing too much. I also think I've taken on too much too soon with university it was like I've always wanted to go back but never could because of him and my anxiety about leaving him on his own too much, yip real codie trying to control everything but having control over nothing!!

Thank you Amy I am addicted to him he caused all my pain and anxiety but I looked to him to heal me also. I understand what you mean about not being heard. I thought at times he heard me and was making changes he looked like he was, saying all the right things, doing the right things for a time then back to reality. He could only sustain no alcohol for limited time. I thought he's trying but he wasn't he was doing it to settle me a bit let me think he was trying and he didn't want to live his life like that but he did. Others have said also about personality type but I don't really understand what that means.

Feeling so lost right now

amy55

Butterfly,

I can see you on that same merry-go-round. I do know that it is hard to get off of that, but sometimes we need to.

I did get off that ride, not because I wanted to, it was because I needed to.

I think the turning point in my life was when my then AH had called 911. He told them that I was drinking and taking pills. I was drinking. I was self medicating, and I was taking OTC sleeping pills just to go to sleep. I couldn't sleep anymore. My mind just revolved around one thing and one thing only. I just wanted him to know I wasn't trying to hurt him, and that the things I was saying wasn't meant to hurt him, it was to help us communicate better. He wasn't hearing it, he didn't want to know. He wanted to be stuck in his own mind, and he shut me out. I didn't exist to him.

I was diagnosed with PTSD, anxiety attacks, panic attacks, due to Stockholm Syndrome.

I don't like to throw out medical terms. I'm just going to say that I was a complete mess. I stopped caring for me totally, my world revolved around him. I was willing to accept anything at all that resembled some small part of caring.

So with my hospital stay, and then IOP, I started to get stronger, or at least I thought I was getting stronger. The stronger I thought I was getting, the stronger he got in treating me like I didn't exist.

I have a very strong fear of rejection and abandonment. He used this against me.

The more I tried to make things better between us, the more that he withdrew from me. He actually did tell me that he was punishing me. He knew how to do it, and he did it so well.

I was pathetic, I was a basketcase. I don't like to admit that .

I did leave. He filed for a divorce from me because, "How can you have a relationship, if only one person is there?" I thought about those words for a long time. He wasn't present in our relationship, he ran away from home all the time, so how can he say that to me?

I think it was then that I realized he never really saw me as a person, he perhaps saw me as some kind of a fixture of stability in his life, for when he wanted that, but he didn't see me as a person.

He didn't care that he hurt me, in fact he got mad at me if I told him that he hurt me. That was a direct quote from him. Not something I just made up or felt.

I wasn't allowed to be upset or hurt. Another thing for me to ponder over. Every human gets upset or hurt, why wasn't I allowed this? Ans..... I wasn't a person in his mind, I was more of a possession.

I needed to get through all of that before I could be the person that I wanted to be. I was no good for me, no good for my children, I wasn't even good for my dog.

I don't want that above statement to be taken the wrong way. Yes people loved me, but I hated me, so I wasn't giving anything my all, because my "all" was being sucked away trying to get him to understand me. I wasn't in the present. I was lost in a fantasy, or a nightmare, (whatever you want to call it)

I'm writing this to you to see if it resonates with you, you may not be able to see it now, but I do. It's the same merry-go-round that I was on.

It might be hard to let go right now, I just would like you to think outside of the box that you trapped yourself into.

You know you can't go back to the way it was, and nothing has changed. Even if he gave in right now and stopped drinking, how long will it be before he leaves again?

You know that I will be here for you, you know I have gone through this, if there is anyway at all that you can think of that I can help you through this, let me know.

I'm looking to you to give me advice as to how to be supportive to you.

((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))
amy

Butterfly

Thanks Amy you are supporting me and I really appreciate it thank you so much

Thank you all so much.