Nuudawn

I'm struggling with something here....

When looking up the Al-Anon 12 steps (as I guess I erroneously thought we were essentially talking codependency here), I was surprised to learned that the first step is the same as is it for the alcoholic which is "admitting powerlessness over alcohol". I dunno...I was a little dumbfounded ..as really...often when we are with an addict...isn't it the addict (or the love of the addict) we are trying to control rather than the addict's addiction. This gave me pause. How incredibly codependent to think we are struggling with powerlessness over same thing!

I am currently staying with my sister..also in recovery for alcoholism (although we are thru and thru codependent as hell...as we were raised in same house with addict father and then became drunks). When I mentioned my confusion over this Step 1 for Al-anon...she didn't answer my question. She started talking about an upcoming assessment I had regarding getting approved for subsidized counselling for my alcohol addiction that she facilitated..sort of...she gave me the number.

I couldn't follow her train of thought..as it didn't seem related to what I said. I then realized that before she even answered my question she was worried that I was going to say what I had just said to her about my upcoming assessment and that if I didn't say my primary problem was alcohol I would not get approved..

Um..you have no idea how long it took me to get caught up with the conversation. My brain doesn't work that fast. I can't leap to the outcome of MY upcoming assessment based on a recent observation I made on Al-anon Step 1.

How the hell did she? Instead of answering my question...she is minding the outcome of MY freaking assessment. Sorry... I'm dumbfounded.

I guess what I was looking for was the 12 Steps of Codependency which is...

We admitted we were powerless over others - that our lives had become unmanageable


Isn't this truly what we are talking about when living with addicts?

Cuz believe me...two addicts living together...HOLY HANNAH..we are minding each others thoughts, lives, problems constantly. It's hell really.

It's enough to drive a person to drink. Ha ha..just kidding.

How do we UNHOOK from another person's attempts at control...

THAT's what I want to know.

I'm just rambling here...venting I guess.

Carlotta

This is the fist step of Coda (Codependent Anonymous).
If you are more comfortable working that, look them up. They do not have as meetings as Al Anon but you should find at least one if you live in a decent sized city
CoDA Twelve Steps

Nuudawn

Ummm... okay.

I am not having a good day.

Thanks.

LexieCat

It's just what I was saying before, Nuudawn, not EVERYONE in a relationship with an alcoholic is co-dependent. Parents, for example, don't stop being parents, and even when we are no longer in contact with the alcoholic, we still feel the effects of living with alcoholism.

Just as the alcoholic is powerless over alcohol, so are we. The alcohol wins every time in an "us vs. it" battle. If the alcoholic successfully gets sober, that is the alcoholic's victory, and not ours. THEY have been relieved of their obsession by working the Steps, but that doesn't do anything for us--not by itself.

And whether we are alcoholics or addicts or loved ones, we are ALL powerless over other people.

I know it sounds like semantics, but each group has a "primary purpose." For Al-Anon, it happens to be "to help families of alcoholics." And for us, powerlessness over alcohol is one stumbling block we all have in common.

Eauchiche

In my case, I was binge drinking with my partner before I got into AlAnon. I was afraid to quit drinking, because it might make him mad. I was RIGHT!
My drinking patterns were definitely alcoholic, but I had no trouble giving it up.
I know most peoples' situations are different from mine, but I use the first step all the time.

anattaboy

I have a brother who got sober 3 yrs. ago. He's at the AA Club every night. He has a tree business and sometimes needs help. I have helped him in the past. We could not work together drunk and we cannot work together sober. I lived with him briefly but could not imagine now.. My wife and I's sobering up together is as co-dep as our drinking but better. Geesh, we're married. Of course we are co-dependent. My blood kin I can only be around for short visits. Love him and glad he's sober but...

WMJ1012

Nuudawn
Thanks for your question

Step 1 (Part 1)

The alcoholic has a mental obsession to drink and once he does, he then develops a physical "allergy" or "phenomenon of craving" where his body demands more. He then tries to control his intake but cannot.

We have a mental obsession to get involved with people who show difficult symptoms (including untreated alcoholics). We may try not to but eventually we do. Once we "pick them up" (our physical aspect) we can't put them down. And once we are in it, we try to control them but cannot.

Same disease, different symptoms.

The only defense for either party is a Higher Power (solves the spiritual malady which underlies the mental and physical problems)

The above are small examples of why I say the Big Book process works for either fellowship - one just needs to know how to see it with an Alanon "set of eyes".)

AnvilheadII

Alanon was founded in 1951 - with the stated purpose to help relatives and friends of alcoholics, with the view that alcoholism is a family disease. here on SR as you read thru the F&F for Alcoholics section you will see the same theme repeated.....how can i get him/her to STOP DRINKING? he's an amazing husband, except when he drinks. she's a terrific mother, except when she drinks. he only gets mad and hits me when he drinks....etc etc. and the corresponding belief is.....is s/he will just stop DRINKING, all will be well.

and so wages the war over ALCOHOL.

while today 63 years later the concept of powerlessness has grown and changed and the list of persons/places or things that qualify us as powerless goes on, for ALANON the primary purpose was and remains to offer support to friends and families OF alcoholics - taking the focus OFF fixing the problem drinker and instead begin to fix themselves. i don't believe codependency is ever mentioned in the Alanon literature......

Nuudawn

Thanks Anvil...and all.

I am sorry if I offended anyone by implying that having a relationship with an alcoholic constitutes codependency.

I'm an addict of a gazillion things. In all honesty, a codependent, toxic relationship with a fellow addict (although his DOC was different) truly brought me to recovery. And well..I couldn't "recover" whilst drinking every night.

I'm emotionally overloaded right now..and needed to vent...far too many things I think. I was completely P.O'ed about not being heard this morning ..and then someone worrying about what I thought was MY problem..not hers. It triggered me in oh so many ways. I was triggered by someone ignoring my thoughts to worry about MY life.

It made me crave a drink. I had no idea where to post really.

I think I am being overwhelmed by too much recovery right now..and probably need a good laugh.

I don't know where to find support for what it truly bugging me..cuz I'm not sure what it is.

I think my answer is...I need to simply support myself and stop looking for resonance, agreement and validation...outside of myself.

I think that's it.

Carlotta

I think that codependency/recovery/alcoholism aside it boils down to the fact that you are two grown women and living with another adult can be difficult and requires making concessions and adjustments.
It's perfectly normal that at some point you'll get annoyed at each other. Furthermore, you are on her "turf". It is not like you both moved in at the same time in an equal position with mutually agreed upon "house rules".
I know that I love having my own space, nothing wrong with it. My BFF is not an alcoholic and is a wonderful person but our unspoken cap for visits is one week top...anything more would just be too much.

Nuudawn

Ouch. I suppose I should just shut up then.

We didn't have an arguement...at all. I was only talking about "not being heard" in favour of her solving my anticipated, future problem that wasn't related to conversation.

Deja vu.

LexieCat

Well, one thing about alcoholics--they know how they tend to think. So maybe she was assuming you were looking for a "loophole" because that's what a lot of alcoholics DO. She misinterpreted, you took offense, and there you have it.

I'd work on letting go of the resentment. THAT is what gets us in trouble.

FireSprite

I get what you are saying here - for me, I'd listen but then say:

"That's NOT what I asked you. I asked you _____________"


Ok, maybe in early recovery I wouldn't have patiently listened. That took some learning - to not interrupt & listen alllllll the way through what my RAH had to say. But instead of accepting his tangent & moving the conversation in a different direction, I learned to redirect it back to my original point if it was irrelevant. If he insists that it IS relevant, I ask him to explain WHY. Often he hears his own circular avoidance & I don't have to point it out.

AnvilheadII

nuudawn, you didn't offend anyone! you ask some really insightful questions! you are what we call here a Double Winner - recovering from alcoholism/addiction AND the other side, which we often call codependency due to the many shared traits, or just for lack of a better word!!!

right about now in early recovery it's a good day if you can reliably tell your @ss from a hole in the ground! if you are wearing matching socks and don't confuse the freezer and the toaster oven more than once a day! LOL seriously, sobering, cleaning up, drying out, whatever, it does a real number on us. coming across all these new sitatuations and remembering that you don't DRINK in response takes a lot of work....cuz everywhere you go, there you are and there's that damn thirsty gorilla.

toss in living with your sis and all the family of origin stuff swirling around, just being sisters even AND that she is also in recovery and it's not wonder you're a bit on edge!!!

Give yourself a break. Cut yourself some slack. this interchange with your sis....let's look at it like Lesson 1 - How to deal with XXX situation. next you'll move on to Lesson 2,3, and so on and until the way you handle that situation becomes easier, more fluid.

How'd ya do the very first time you tried to parallel park? Or merge on the freeway with a shift stick?

cynical one

First off, matching socks is so 2012. I don't know where Anvil has been, but mismatched socks is the cool thing now.

IMO, many if not most addicts/alcoholics also suffer from raging untreated codependency and/or enmeshment, or whatever label you want to throw at it (which started before they picked up drugs/alcohol). At heart, I think they seek acceptance and when they don't find it (real or perceived), they turn to a substance that is always accepting...and welcoming.

Codependency has been called a disease of the ego (ours) and if you think about it, how true it really is. We see others as broken and they need our fixing so they can be WHO WE WANT THEM TO BE instead of allowing them to be, and accepting them as who they are. Look at all the effort we put into changing them by nagging, pleading, begging, bullying, motivating, manipulating, rewarding and punishing...and then think how it would feel if someone did or tried to do that to us. We think we know what is best for someone else, when they are the experts on their own lives...as we are on ours.

Nuudawn

Ahhhh...thank you! Now that's what I'm talkin' bout.

Dee74

so...how soon are you getting your own place Nuu?...

D

Nuudawn

Yup..that's sounds bout right. I am a thin skinned MANIAC these days. At a meeting yesterday I had to practice "tonglen breathing" whilst listening to a "newbie" share, as her anger and self righteous indignation was triggering my own. Inside I was screaming "SHUT YOUR FACE with your I'm one month sober know it all angry let how me tell you all how to work your recovery"

Thank you for hearing me.

irisgardens

Nuudawn...I totally got what you were saying and also the next threads were all so helpful. I tend to have to do my recovery work and just try to keep at it...as have found (have been doing it in some way, shape, or form for 20 years almost) that my understanding is clear after I have learned to do it...and this goes for every nuance of recovery. You asked awesome questions...and things that I would have liked to ask if I had ever thought about them. Over time, I have started to figure out that I don't know too much...and can always learn more...and you provided a wonderful helpful learning for me...and I will be going to my naranon f2f tonight...however, have been told that alanon is a good substitute...and so I know that between these two programs...I am covered for my most recent addict and my renewed and deeper focus on how to work on me.

Nuudawn

It'll be awhile Dee...a great while. I am helping her out with the expenses. I have my own living area downstairs that I guess I need to spend more time in. It's like the both of us are in a freaking "sober living house" right now. Perhaps we spent too much time talking "recovery".

She actually just left for the airport like 20 minutes ago. Won't be back til next week. It was only later I realized that this morn her own anxiety was through the roof. She HATES flying and used to have to get herself comatose with booze and pills before doing so.