PohsFriend

For those who I've not met here, it's because I don't come back much these days. I popped in a couple months back to share what it was like to see my beloved wife get her two year chip. On December 26th it will be three years since I hit rock bottom and dropped her shivering and drunk at her brothers home when she wouldn't go to a hospital because I concluded that I loved her enough to do whatever it took to help her get well but I loved her too much to stand watching her die - she came close.

So our road was not an easy one but she did the work, she's not the broken soul she was then. She is healthy, she is a loving wife, a devoted mommies to our just turned 2 son. She is a friend, a sponsor of others in recovery. She works her plan. She spends a few hours ever day reading, listening to podcasts on recovery, meditating, working her steps for the third time.

In short, while I learned in year one to stay out of her program, let her do her own inventory and worry about my own path to happiness and serenity... I pay attention.

Poh was very consistent about substance abuse, she did not discriminate and would find a way to take anything in an unhealthy way thanks to the addictive voice saying 1 is good, 6 must be better!

We have an understanding - what happens to one if us impacts us both. We are open and talk things out. Maybe 18 months ago we concluded that having more than one doc writing prescriptions for her was not helping so she asked the therapist she was seeing for a referral to a psychiatrist who understood alcohol and addiction and who specialized in monitoring and balancing medications for such patients.

Great decision. I asked the therapist I was seeing about it and he knew just the guy. Oddly, her therapist recommended the same guy. Not surprisingly, he had seen recovering alcoholics with anxiety problems and ADD and some depression before and redid her meds, made some tweaks and before long she was feeling much better and he sees her every couple months, asks questions, adjusts dosages and she says she is very confident that he puts in the effort to really understand and assess things. She had a brief time where she decided to drop Zoloft and the occasional Xanax for herbal teas... Not so good, but she went back, said a sheepish "whoooops!" And he worked with her and got her dialed in again. She's not on anything you'd freak over.

Lonnnnnng preface, bless your patience! Ok so new sponsor she started with a few months back says that if you work your program right you shouldn't need any meds. That got my antennae up - I was thinking WTF! Thank you DOCTOR for that pearl of wisdom, I wish I knew that back when I had cancer, coulda just worked the steps instead of surgery had I only known.

She pushed on Poh to get a second opinion and therapy and get rid of the needs. Poh was shaken - she suspected I would be upset or at least very concerned and I was - not freaking out but with everything calm and serene I was not excited about rocking the boat.

I reminded Poh that she had been very confident in this doc, that he had reviewed alllll of her records and really worked to monitor and check on her so why not tell him you'd like to wean off or at least reduce her doses and try therapy. She was relieved and thanked me for calmly talking it over and supporting whatever decision she made.

Then, it got weird. She told sponsor her plan and sponsor thought doc would talk her into staying on meds and any therapist he recommended would echo him. That was just too odd to me, this is a well regarded doc who was recommended by two therapists we really respect and he helped her a great deal, questioning his motives seemed bizarre.

Poh started therapy again with someone her doc recommended and really likes the therapist. I was concerned - selfishly in part - all was well, why dig up bad memories.

Poh had a thoughtful response, said a lot if unresolved stuff was her reason for drinking and for the first time she feels safe, secure, loved and confident enough to deal with some things so she can let them go and move on for good (how cool is that answer?)

Well sponsor doesn't like it and really shocked Poh tonight. Said she might want to tell her sponsee that she's not truly sober and reset her sobriety date once she gives up her meds. Said she wasn't even sure Poh can say she is sober since she takes her medication exactly when, how and in the amount her doc prescribed. Went on to say maybe she needed to go into treatment and they might check her into the mental health facility her sponsor once went to before she gave up her meds. Poh was hurt, I was furious.

Poh isn't abusing meds, she's more in control and level headed than ever or was before she started obsessing over the fear that maybe she should stop meds but maybe stopping them would really disrupt her....

So back when Poh started aa I saw a therapist of my own and he said AA is wonderful but keep in mind that the qualification for membership is alcoholism and to be concerned if someone with a PhD in mixology wants to dispense medical advice. Ya think?

Anyway we talked, Poh said she had really been hurt and was upset but she feels confident in her doc, therapist and program and will let her doctor and therapist handle the medical and let aa handle the steps.

I know some AA folks are anti-medication for reasons that make sense but I am really bothered by this. It seems beyond irresponsible to use that sort of pressure and to dismiss all of Pohs hard work. We went through hell, I almost lost the love of my life and for a long sober sponsor to pull this is hard for me to ignore. It scared me.

I'm proud of Poh, she feels better now and said she has to work her plan and sponsor can work her own but she's not the girl who would have been derailed by this a year or two back. She told her doc she wants to see if therapy helps the anxiety, she doesn't think it would solve any chemical imbalances and she's planning to see how it goes, let her progress decide next steps and not let this shake her.

Her group is a little weird, the ladies have a pecking order that reminds me of "mean girls go to 12 steps". I broke my rule tonight about completely staying out of her AA life while supporting her by taking the baby handoff so she can go after work. I told her I think this sponsor is probably well meaning but lacks objectivity and showed poor judgment. Poh agreed, kissed me and thanked me for the reassurance and ferocious devotion but not to worry, she doesn't get pushed off her recovery path and is feeling much better now.

27 months, 4 days since her 'slip' 9 months into sobriety and every day I thank God that the bravest and most wonderful woman I know chose to live and said yes when I asked her to marry me.

Anyone out there have some thoughts? I'd rather my wife never need meds but there is no emergency, no reason for her to rush or pressure herself so I'm pissed that her sponsor would dare to press her like that even though I am sure she meant well. She took a chance with my wife's health and that's not ok.

Thanks for listening, needed to vent :-)

Xtreem

I have a thousand opinions, but will just give a few ;-)

First off, she needs a different sponsor.... not that you can make that happen and not that I am right...just an opinion.

I have been sober just under 30 years and regularly attend AA, have sponsored 100s over the years and have never told anyone to stop taking meds prescribed by their Dr. that would be and is 100% irresponsible.

I hope I never claim to know what is better for an individual as far as medicine is concerned vs what a Dr or psychiatrist would know.

It is sad that some AA's give others a bad reputation when it comes to things like this. I don't listen to them and will argue against them at any point.

There are numerous valid reasons for medications and unless that sponsor has a PhD and comes highly recommended like the other, I would flatly ignore her.

Good luck - sounds like you guys got it going on ;-)

PohsFriend

Thanks my brother.... She will appreciate it. Aa is wonderful, people are flawed and watching my wife become who she is now has made it easier for me to try not to judge others but this got under my skin for a bit.

People look at pictures of us on my desk at work and say things like "ok it is ridiculous for two people to look that happy - you make me sick!" Lol, I just smile.

We had a 99% chance of failure when she was two months sober, two weeks pregnant and just starting to bounce but our two year old has no idea what it sounds like when parents raise their voices and fight. Wasn't easy but we learned to turn to one another, not on one another and it works. Took me 40 years to find her, can't waste time worrying about the future when one day at a time is working fine.

Thumper

I believe that some mental health conditions are based in physical health conditions that require medication. To me not treating mental health issues is no different than not treating a heart condition or diabetes or something. If I had any condition that was being successfully treated by a doctor I trust I'd keep the doctor and switch the sponsor to one that wasn't diametrically opposed to that belief because to me it would be like a sponsor saying - you don't get your sobriety date until you stop taking your blood pressure medicine or insulin.

I will follow that up with disclosing that I've never had an addiction or a sponsor or a mental health issue that needed medication so my two cents may not even be worth that.

dandylion

PohsFriend. I am a former R.N. who worked in psychiatry for several years...I am now a P.A. and have worked with alcoholics, mental illness and every manner of other kinds of illnesses.
I will just say that I agree with you and your wife.
I think that the sponsor is walking onto dangerous territory.
I am not an alcoholic--so I don't know the inner workings of sponsors, etc.

What I do know is that some people absolutely need certain medications (for certain conditions)...and experienced experts should be the ones to guide such a person in these matters.

dandylion

lillamy

Imperfect people everywhere. You guys sound very grounded, though. And I agree that it's really not your monkey, but that sponsor does not sound like a good match. Or a good sponsor.

I've seen it in Al-Anon (I think more than in AA) where sponsors get very codie-like and want to run every aspect of their sponsee's life. That's never a good thing.

The sponsor reminds me of a church I visited, where they believed any kind of physical or mental ailment was a sign that you weren't right with God. Pushing your own idea of righteousness on someone else is usually a bad idea.

And I'm so happy to see you pop in, and hear that things are going so well for your little family.

redatlanta

My Husband has a host of mental issues. Bi-Polar, anxiety, depression. These are "real" things and I suspect why he drank for years and years and years as self medication.

He also is on chronic pain management.

By some standards, as you are experiencing, he is not considered sober.

BULL. First I would get rid of that sponsor. That is unbelievably stupid to be advising someone to get off their prescription medication. Appalling actually.

And second….I would get rid of that sponsor. I like to quote you "one size fits one". i'd like for someone to walk in my husband's shoes for ONE HOUR and then tell him he needs to get off medication. That's really easy to say to someone when you aren't them.

Sure, Husband could abuse his meds. He surely could and so could POH. But he does not.
If he ever did then no, he wouldn't be sober.

It is true that benzo's work on the same area of the brain as alcohol. It is used in detox and is highly addictive. They also help many people have a quality of life they wouldn't have otherwise.

queenapple

Unfortunately, I've seen this same thing in some of my RAH's Christian recovery groups-he took prescribed Vicodin occasionally for back pain and amazingly enough, has never abused it at all. His group told him he was not sober until he stopped it. Since he's had a liver transplant and has some kidney issues as a result, he's limited in what pain medications he can take, but he did it. His doctor switched him to Tramadol, which now is also classified as a narcotic, although it wasn't then.

I've seen the same thing with a relative's psych meds and her church. I'm a Christian, but also an RN and I totally disagree with this view about psych meds as well as pain meds. If RAH abused them or they were a trigger for him, he's have to stay away from them. They're not. If my relative didn't take her psych meds, she would be in serious danger due to out-of-control behavior.

I think she needs a new sponsor.

sugarbear1

that sponsor has no right putting her opinions on another.

time for a new sponsor.

CodeJob

Ah, this recently came up on a thread in F&A. This insidious idea that if you are on meds, you are not truly "sober." Very dangerous.

I liked this response, but I will see if I can pop up a link the THE OFFICIAL AA brochure on this issue which is probably the best way to shut this sponsor down with the AA pamphlet.

Mean girls do AA? Maybe your wife has outgrown this group at 2 Y sober?

Medications and Recovery
http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/p-11_...ersMedDrug.pdf

LexieCat

Thanks, CodeJob,

I was about to post the VERY same links! PF, not all AA groups have the Medication pamphlet in their literature collection. Although it's probably not great for YOU to try to convince your wife about these issues, the Conference-Approved AA pamphlet might do a lot to set her mind at ease about keeping the medication issue between her and her doctor. AA doesn't make a lot of "official" pronouncements, so most of what people spout about AA's position is really only the opinion of the member who says it.

Read the pamphlet and share it with her. I think it will give her a lot of strength (I don't like to say "ammunition") in discussing this with her sponsor and firmly saying that her prescriptions are not up for debate with her sponsor.

Yeah, doesn't sound to me like she's a great sponsor, either, but that's ultimately something your wife will have to figure out on her own.

LexieCat

I swear, I refreshed this page like three times and NO post from me was there.

LexieCat

See above. Aaaarrrgh!!

PohsFriend

So by the time I got home tonight, Poh had concluded that while sponsor hurt her feelings and has had her really upset over the meds thing, it was not malicious and in the end it got her to take a hard look, get a therapist and decide that she is confident in her doc, her program and her sobriety and is thankful that this episode caused us to have some very deep conversations that brought us closer together so she may or may not decide to keep the sponsor but she will establish some boundaries and ask her to respect her decision to leave medical matters to the medical expert she is confident in.

That's the annoying thing about Poh these days. Here I am still focused on how pissed I am that anyone would dare to disrupt my wife's serenity, question her sobriety, dismiss the hard work and abuse her position of false authority to give potentially dangerous advice...

Poh? She'd already taken her inventory, done her meditation, crossed it off her resentment list and was waiting for me with a hug and a kiss.

Damn. Somewhere along the way I stopped wanting her to think more like me and started working on being more like her.

My wife is sober, happy, loving and ....serene. Today is a good day.

Thanks for listening, I needed to vent. ...told Poh I owed her an apology for underestimating her ever strengthening ability to recover her balance and not get knocked off course. She just smiled, kissed me and told me about her day with bambam. She's a lot saner than me now ;-)

PohsFriend

I read this to Poh and sent her the link. Thanks for this.
She may send it to dr sponsor but probably won't. She let's stuff go better than I do now.

My suggestion was that I'd pay for an hour of the doc and the therapist if sponsor would teach us about her medical theories... But again, I'm overprotective and a little snide when someone does something stupid that impacts me ;-)

CodeJob

I'm glad Poh sailed through this! A lot of people don't. There's probably a reason this brochure was created.

I think you are wise to be wary. More will be revealed.

LexieCat

Yeah, if you read the pamphlet, there are stories from alcoholics who almost died when they listened to other members who told them to toss the meds.

There are also stories in there from people who got in trouble with their sobriety when doctors who knew NOTHING about alcoholism/addiction (even when cautioned by the patient) prescribed inappropriate medication.

I always think the best advice is to make sure the prescribing doc knows what s/he is doing when prescribing for an alcoholic/addict, and to be alert for any problems with how the meds make you feel.