Manipulative People
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 765
Manipulative People
I posted this on the AA forum but thought maybe Alanons could better give insight:
Many mornings I go to a local Dunkin Donuts for about a year now. The manager at first was very nice and would smile and run around (at 6am!) Very high energy gay man about 35 years old. We saw each other around town a few times in line at the bank etc. we always had nice exchanges.
He asked me to give his store a review by going to a website and entering numbers on my coffee receipt so I was happy to do that. It was a good honest kind review. A few weeks later he wanted me to do another one so I did. A few weeks later he wanted me to do another one and I said I felt 2 was good for now...maybe later in the year. Truthfully I just wanted my darned coffee without feeling I owe him something. I'm already giving him business.
He started trying to bribe me with those free DD Calendars ("I have a 'gift' for you!") I said I already picked one up, thanks anyway. I remained kind but each morning I began to face more and more manipulation for about 9 months now.
He's started this thing where every morning he asks me why I'm ordering what I'm ordering. "Why no coffee? Is there something wrong with our coffee? Why only a muffin? Why no muffin and only a coffee? Don't you like our muffins anymore? Do you buy coffee somewhere else? Have you been making coffee at home?"
I want to live by principles with this guy. I don't fight people. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this and how you'd handle it using the 12 steps
Many mornings I go to a local Dunkin Donuts for about a year now. The manager at first was very nice and would smile and run around (at 6am!) Very high energy gay man about 35 years old. We saw each other around town a few times in line at the bank etc. we always had nice exchanges.
He asked me to give his store a review by going to a website and entering numbers on my coffee receipt so I was happy to do that. It was a good honest kind review. A few weeks later he wanted me to do another one so I did. A few weeks later he wanted me to do another one and I said I felt 2 was good for now...maybe later in the year. Truthfully I just wanted my darned coffee without feeling I owe him something. I'm already giving him business.
He started trying to bribe me with those free DD Calendars ("I have a 'gift' for you!") I said I already picked one up, thanks anyway. I remained kind but each morning I began to face more and more manipulation for about 9 months now.
He's started this thing where every morning he asks me why I'm ordering what I'm ordering. "Why no coffee? Is there something wrong with our coffee? Why only a muffin? Why no muffin and only a coffee? Don't you like our muffins anymore? Do you buy coffee somewhere else? Have you been making coffee at home?"
I want to live by principles with this guy. I don't fight people. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this and how you'd handle it using the 12 steps
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
I don't think I would use the 12 steps at all.
I think I would just tell him that "dude, you're pushing too hard. I like coming here, but you're beginning to sound like a used car salesman, and as a friend and customer, I'd just like to tell you that your attitude is driving customers away."
I think I would just tell him that "dude, you're pushing too hard. I like coming here, but you're beginning to sound like a used car salesman, and as a friend and customer, I'd just like to tell you that your attitude is driving customers away."
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 765
I don't insult people but I can be honest (which sometimes does offend but isn't cruel.) So I had these thoughts:
1) it might be time to move on to another DDs or a different morning routine.
2) if I do go back I will still need to deal with it so I could say:
- nothing, and just shrug when he asks me a million questions
- answer his question by asking him, "Why do you ask?"
- answer his questions about my order with, "it doesn't matter for you" because it doesn't.
These are the kinds of responses I am looking for. Alanon tools.
1) it might be time to move on to another DDs or a different morning routine.
2) if I do go back I will still need to deal with it so I could say:
- nothing, and just shrug when he asks me a million questions
- answer his question by asking him, "Why do you ask?"
- answer his questions about my order with, "it doesn't matter for you" because it doesn't.
These are the kinds of responses I am looking for. Alanon tools.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mmmmmm
Posts: 3,178
Yes I'd definitely avoid the conflict and switch my morning routine around to avoid the conflict. So since that is what I would do - that is the wrong approach.
"Im glad to see you. Your energy and enthusiasm is one of the reasons I come here."
Then see is the compliment gets him to back off a little...
"Im glad to see you. Your energy and enthusiasm is one of the reasons I come here."
Then see is the compliment gets him to back off a little...
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Simply going to another location is nothing more than avoidance. Especially if it's a less convenient location. I'm not changing my entire routine to avoid an irritation - for a stalker or someone who poses as an actual danger to me, yes. What do you do then when you run into him again at the bank or somewhere & he peppers you with questions about where you've been, why you aren't stopping in, etc?
I don't find anything insulting about being direct with someone. How is it rude to be honest if you aren't doing it in a mean or hurtful way? You might actually be helping him out because he may be losing other customers for the same reasons.
I don't find anything insulting about being direct with someone. How is it rude to be honest if you aren't doing it in a mean or hurtful way? You might actually be helping him out because he may be losing other customers for the same reasons.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
I like lillamy's response best but in reality I would get coffee somewhere else if it was convenient. If not I have defaulted to the "Why do you ask" line for a lot of other things and it usually works pretty good and I don't have to think to hard because it is a universal response. You can always answer with "I'm not hungry." Or "I'm not thirsty" and if he keeps going with 'did you make coffee at home?' just repeat "I don't want any."
You can also answer and flip another question back. "I'm don't want any this morning what kind of coffee did you have?". "I'm not hungry what did you eat for breakfast?"
Pregnant woman and mothers get all kinds of nosy and/or inappropriate questions and those types of responses work well - that is where my experience is from.
If I was feeling kind of sassy I might say "You should really get a bright light to shine in my face before you begin the inquisition." lol
You can also answer and flip another question back. "I'm don't want any this morning what kind of coffee did you have?". "I'm not hungry what did you eat for breakfast?"
Pregnant woman and mothers get all kinds of nosy and/or inappropriate questions and those types of responses work well - that is where my experience is from.
If I was feeling kind of sassy I might say "You should really get a bright light to shine in my face before you begin the inquisition." lol
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I have a Chinese restaurant I go to that does something similar. I eventually told the man that I enjoy his food and come there for enjoyment, and that I would like to spend my meal in peace, not discussing his business.
He got the hint. I still go.
He got the hint. I still go.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
Having worked in corporate restaurants for many years, I know the managers' salaries depend on the numbers. Every chain has incentive points and his questions sound like sales tactics gone bad. 
You don't have to fill out his surveys - even though they are judged by how many of them they get. You also don't have to tell him whether or not you've done one.
Some people are super enthusiastic, like this man. It is a part of their nature. Far better to go overboard with helpfulness than cynicism.
This is where love and tolerance comes in. Nothing needs to be said to him at all. There are people who are different. At least he's friendly-different
I would just smile and not answer him; look at my newspaper or put in headphones.
You don't have to fill out his surveys - even though they are judged by how many of them they get. You also don't have to tell him whether or not you've done one.Some people are super enthusiastic, like this man. It is a part of their nature. Far better to go overboard with helpfulness than cynicism.
This is where love and tolerance comes in. Nothing needs to be said to him at all. There are people who are different. At least he's friendly-different
I would just smile and not answer him; look at my newspaper or put in headphones.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
it's a coffee shop, not where you go get dialysis. i'd just go somewhere else. It's not my job to ENDURE what others do in order to keep up the KIND schtick. my boundary about how I will allow others to treat me tells me to find somewhere else to get my damn coffee.....
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 765
What he's doing is actually predatorily pushing through my boundaries.
He's in pain and fear like everyone, so he's looking for relief.
But my job is not to give people relief, I did that growing up. Always saving folks from crises they need to have. I want to stay out of his way emotionally.
As others said here, Alanon isn't always about cutting people off all the time. We need relationship tools or our life gets real small so as to avoid "frostbite".
I like the suggestion of telling him I like his enthusiasm etc but people pleasing is part of what got me into this. Wonderful reviews etc, then suddenly I would no longer be who he wanted me to be. More people pleasing might not work
He's known for some time now that I'm uncomfortable with his manipulation.
I will respond to his questions by telling him "The reason I order what I order is absolutely none of your business."
He's in pain and fear like everyone, so he's looking for relief.
But my job is not to give people relief, I did that growing up. Always saving folks from crises they need to have. I want to stay out of his way emotionally.
As others said here, Alanon isn't always about cutting people off all the time. We need relationship tools or our life gets real small so as to avoid "frostbite".
I like the suggestion of telling him I like his enthusiasm etc but people pleasing is part of what got me into this. Wonderful reviews etc, then suddenly I would no longer be who he wanted me to be. More people pleasing might not work
He's known for some time now that I'm uncomfortable with his manipulation.
I will respond to his questions by telling him "The reason I order what I order is absolutely none of your business."
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
What he's doing is actually predatorily pushing through my boundaries.
He's in pain so he's looking for relief.
He's in pain so he's looking for relief.
I think it could be as easy as saying to yourself "this dude makes me uncomfortable so I'm not going to frequent his establishment anymore."
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 81
I would, and have in similar situations, take my business elsewhere. If someone makes me uncomfortable I won't deal with them. I'd even go so far as to give him an honest type of review about why I no longer choose to buy coffee there.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Don't know what to do?
“Be pretty if you can, be witty if you must, but be gracious if it kills you.”
― Elsie De Wolfe
===============
I do not have much pretty, so I have had to work on the witty and the gracious.
Lately my mornings have been Racetrac coffee, and often a donut.
They were running a "free coffee" week a couple of weeks ago. Same time the Pumpkin Spice coffee was running. I was joking they were running "try some, buy some," like the drug dealers do. But the folks it drew in were rather ungracious to the folks that worked there. So I made a point of being kind, a smile, and usually buying something along with the free coffee.
But that was over a couple of weeks ago. It seems I am still hooked.
Now the girls just mark my coffee or donuts as free some days.
I guess if you want it in a simple AA or Alanon slogan type line maybe this will do?
Just be kind.
Smile and wave, boys, smile and wave.
“Be pretty if you can, be witty if you must, but be gracious if it kills you.”
― Elsie De Wolfe
===============
I do not have much pretty, so I have had to work on the witty and the gracious.
Lately my mornings have been Racetrac coffee, and often a donut.
They were running a "free coffee" week a couple of weeks ago. Same time the Pumpkin Spice coffee was running. I was joking they were running "try some, buy some," like the drug dealers do. But the folks it drew in were rather ungracious to the folks that worked there. So I made a point of being kind, a smile, and usually buying something along with the free coffee.
But that was over a couple of weeks ago. It seems I am still hooked.
Now the girls just mark my coffee or donuts as free some days.
I guess if you want it in a simple AA or Alanon slogan type line maybe this will do?
Just be kind.
Smile and wave, boys, smile and wave.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 923
it's funny the things that get to me...had that happen with a long time coffee spot not too long ago...same people...but I had been gone for a while...and no longer felt comfortable...they were. so, I started getting McDonald's which is lower in price as I realized that things change and that one of my good friends in convo from before lost his wife and that he is now more comfortable with the 'boy's table' and also another member of our table (from before I left for Chile to regroup financially) had passed and that nothing ever stays the same...even from day to day. I am enjoying my McDonald's and finding other places to have coffee with friends...and although it was hard (I like routines that have lasted for years)--sometimes I just need to adjust. Don't know what you will decide to do...but there is lots of experience here and at the end of the day it will be what it right for you...and thank you for bringing up a topic that showed me that sometimes it's just the daily things that drive us nut.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 765
It IS the little things that bother us, yes. This is where the 10th step comes in.
But also we each have to pray for what God's will is for us. And sometimes that does mean moving on. This is why I brought up that God might be trying to get me to change my morning routine. Maybe He wants me to take walks instead and make coffee at home.
It's why this board can be hard - only we really know outmoded situations
I thank everyone for their input and responses
But also we each have to pray for what God's will is for us. And sometimes that does mean moving on. This is why I brought up that God might be trying to get me to change my morning routine. Maybe He wants me to take walks instead and make coffee at home.
It's why this board can be hard - only we really know outmoded situations
I thank everyone for their input and responses
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 278
I'd been in Alanon for a while before I came across the concept "Don't JADE!" because it's likely to end up in a circular argument that gets nowhere. JADE is an acronym for:
Justify
Argue
Defend
Explain
Someone, trying to start an argument with me, once asked why I don't eat red meat. I responded "Because I don't like the taste!" Completely took the wind out of his sails! That was before I joined Alanon, and it happens to be true, but it did strike me at the time that this was a good riposte to that kind of question.
There's quite a good article here: OCPD - Scattered Thoughts from the Front Lines: JADE: Good for Jewelry, Bad for Relationships
Justify
Argue
Defend
Explain
Someone, trying to start an argument with me, once asked why I don't eat red meat. I responded "Because I don't like the taste!" Completely took the wind out of his sails! That was before I joined Alanon, and it happens to be true, but it did strike me at the time that this was a good riposte to that kind of question.
There's quite a good article here: OCPD - Scattered Thoughts from the Front Lines: JADE: Good for Jewelry, Bad for Relationships
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
