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The proposal

Old 11-05-2014, 08:28 AM
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The proposal

Well, since I brought it up on my last thread, I thought I could start a new one here and tell you all what AH has proposed as a solution.

Here's the gist without me going into the details and the whining and the complaining and the blaming and the baited statements which tried to get me to argue, etc.

He wants us to sell the house, move to 2 separate rentals, and he will continue to provide for us until 2017 when open enrollment comes around for his health insurance at work. He does not want me to file for divorce because that would cost us too much.

So, I asked him about starting new relationships and how he would handle that since he's so desperate to be in a woman's arms and have sex and feel loved again. He said, "Well, as far as that's concerned, I consider us divorced....just not financially." So, after a few back and forths in the talk, he was basically saying that we could date but we'd stay married on paper! UGH!!!

Then he says, "Well, if you met someone and wanted to really make it official, of course, then we'd have to divorce."

Please tell me this is insanity at it's finest. I mean, who comes up with this stuff? I kept asking how, "Why, why would you want to be tied to me if you know I'm done? If you know that it is best to truly end this?"

In effect, I know he's just trying to hold onto as much cash as he can. I, on the other hand, don't want to sell the house and then split the proceeds with him so that we can drain the money dry all while I sit anchored to an alcoholic who is quite capable of running our financial lives into the ground if he gets another DUI or similar problem.

I told him I'd think about his proposal, but that I'd have to get with my lawyer to see what she says. I was taking him to the airport and we didn't have any more time for me to state my concerns or my case. Quite frankly, I don't think he'd listen anyway so it was best to just leave it as is. He did leave a present for our son and for his birthday. Honestly, there are times I really feel sorry for him because I truly think that he thinks that leaving for the birthday IS his best option. I just think that his 'thinker' is broken, if that makes sense. What seems logical and like an act of grace to him, actually is hurtful and damaging to his kid, and there's no explaining it otherwise to him because he doesn't seem to hear me.

He says he loves me and wants me and wanted to be with me forever. Yeah, I know, and I sometimes feel badly about how things are right now but I can't live my life hoping that he just won't be an alcoholic anymore. And, and active one, at that.
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Old 11-05-2014, 08:36 AM
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Same ole'; Same ole'. Yadda Yadda Yadda.....

dandylion
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Old 11-05-2014, 08:40 AM
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Quack. How seriously ridiculous. Quack.

Credit to you if you didn't Laugh Out Loud while he was speaking. (I think I might've, had it been me.)
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Old 11-05-2014, 08:46 AM
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I, on the other hand, don't want to sell the house and then split the proceeds with him so that we can drain the money dry all while I sit anchored to an alcoholic who is quite capable of running our financial lives into the ground if he gets another DUI or similar problem.
That sounds like a sober mind speaking, there. And I think you handled that beautifully -- not arguing, not telling him "you're nuts" (although you thought it) -- just saying "I'll think about it" and then leave it at that.
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Old 11-05-2014, 08:46 AM
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In effect, I know he's just trying to hold onto as much cash as he can. I, on the other hand, don't want to sell the house and then split the proceeds with him so that we can drain the money dry all while I sit anchored to an alcoholic who is quite capable of running our financial lives into the ground if he gets another DUI or similar problem.
Well, there you go, I think that says it right there. I think you are exactly right to get un-anchored and move on. Did you ever hear the saying. "The reason divorce is so expensive is because it's worth it"?
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Old 11-05-2014, 08:55 AM
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You've heard this before but the only sanity that counts here is your own. I had to get to a point in my life where I would consider nothing from my RAW. Then I had to get serious about my own recovery. Seems like I'm only now starting to realize just how sick, messed up and unmanageable my life had become. I was so messed up in the head that what I thought made sense was actually batshat crazy.

I remember thinking how insane my RAW was/is and how I knew a better way. Fact is, I never gave her the chance to fail and she hated me for it. I'm not saying I caused anything of this but I see how my role affected certain aspects of this life.
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Old 11-05-2014, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by lizatola View Post
Please tell me this is insanity at it's finest. I mean, who comes up with this stuff?
Honey,

This is insanity at it's finest.

Who comes up with this stuff? My husband, that's who.

Ugh! Uhg,ugh, ugh, ugh!!!!!!!!!

I'm off to see my attorney in an hour to discuss my upcoming divorce. This is such a heartbreaking pain in the @ss. Keep me in your thought's, Lizitola my friend. I'll definitely keep you in mine. We'll get through this insanity.
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Old 11-05-2014, 09:23 AM
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Okay. If you were two normal non-A people who fell out of love and wanted to divorce amicably, I could see negotiating something in writing about division of assets at a later date, but signing the divorce now.

However, that is not your situation. You are splitting from an A, who might decline/spend money/sell assets/etc... His scenario assumes money keeps flowing in and neither of you gets involved with another person who interferes in this. You think another woman is going to be okay with her new bf handing out money to his "former" wife? Women can be very manipulative in these situations. My ex's gf talked him into not returning things to me and not repaying money. She didn't want her gravy train interrupted. Get it?

Whatever you decide really needs to be done through attorneys and whatever you decide, do not give him control over your money or financial future. Take what you can and cut the cord.
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Old 11-05-2014, 09:53 AM
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Thanks, everyone, and yes it was hard not to laugh. He has a friend who just finished a nasty divorce and is now unable to pay his rent because his ex gets so much from him. He can't afford to put his kids in private school, etc so AH told me, again, that the tennis for our son would end.

He kept trying to tell me that I wouldn't find an insurance plan for myself for under $1000 a month and how much it was going to cost HIM! Wait....why would it cost HIM? It would cost ME....ARRGGHHH. My personal trainer just got through an amicable divorce and she found a great healthcare plan for herself for $215 a month so I'm going to look into what she has, but AH comes up with so much drama and destruction.

He also seems to always leave out the fact that he's due about $300k from his parent's estate. I have no claim to that money but it does put him in a better financial position than me and he should be able to pay for the TENNIS and the expensive math tutoring that our son gets right now. UGH....I honestly almost blurted out, "Cry me a river...." but I didn't, LOL.

I would love to believe that he could be amicable. I just don't trust him and he even made note of that in our talk and told me that the ball is in my court and that I am welcome to just go ahead and file but he wanted me to hear his 'plan'. And, so I did just that: I listened and I tried very hard to be respectful and courteous and even somewhat contribute if I felt I needed to speak. Honestly, he spoke probably 1000 words to my every 100, though. I have found that talking to him means I do a lot more listening these days!
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Old 11-05-2014, 10:17 AM
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Listening is important right now Liz...

So - when you are playing a game of poker, you keep your cards close to your chest. The more he talks, the more you can see what strategy he will use to manipulate both you, your lawyer and the courts.

I kept silent through most of my ex's diatribes, they just fed me information, and that's all I needed. It seemed the less I talked (or argued) the more he needed to fill the vacuum.

I never had to tell anyone how crazy and abusive my ex was.. the more I withheld, the more unglued he became. In the end, I was able to escape a 16 month marriage with a man who had borderline personality disorder with about 13K less in my pocket.

A win win!!

Hang in there...

Lyn
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Old 11-05-2014, 10:20 AM
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My husband can not afford an attorney.
He does not even have the money to pay the mediator.
He's in debt to his eyeballs.

And yet....

He's in love AGAIN. This time with a jobless, carless, classless woman who he's living with and supporting.

It would be almost comical if their volatility didn't effect our security. MissFixit is so right. We need to protect ourselves. Legally.
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Old 11-05-2014, 11:37 AM
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You know what, my divorce did cost me monetarily. However, the emotional payoff is HUGE and worth every single penny.

XXX
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Old 11-05-2014, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by SeriousKarma View Post
My husband can not afford an attorney.
He does not even have the money to pay the mediator.
He's in debt to his eyeballs.

And yet....

He's in love AGAIN. This time with a jobless, carless, classless woman who he's living with and supporting.

It would be almost comical if their volatility didn't effect our security. MissFixit is so right. We need to protect ourselves. Legally.
Yep, I am in total agreement! Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers, friend! HUGS!

As an aside: my sister is married to a guy who won't give her a divorce yet he moved across the country 18 months ago with no job, hasn't paid a cent of support for their 2 kids, and is now living with mommy and daddy in NC but has girlfriend number 2 strung along in NJ. He is the a master deceiver and my sister is constantly fighting him to get legal papers signed by him, etc. She has a hearing with a judge next week to get the marriage dissolved without her husband's(I hesitate to call him that) signatures because it's taken so long and tied up so much court time. Her story is like a twisted soap opera and I pray that mine won't be like that, LOL!
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Old 11-05-2014, 01:37 PM
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Seek an attorney quickly. Because if you file for divorce then he can't go spending any money and has to track everything. Seek legal advice and have them advise you from the start.

He's another crazy one and we are all living with them!!
Yuck!!!
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Old 11-05-2014, 01:55 PM
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my sister is married to a guy who won't give her a divorce
This gets me riled up. You shouldn't have to have anyone's agreement to get a divorce. Marriage should be like a business contract -- if one party moves away to another state and starts screwing young girls, the contract should automatically be null and void.
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Old 11-05-2014, 02:05 PM
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Be very, very careful here. What I sense from what you are saying is that he wants to be divorced while you stay very much married. He wants to date, do what he wants, have no responsibilities....while you worry and manage and make sure financials are in order.

Eff that. (Yeah, I have some strong opinions on that attitude).

Please keep a close eye on shared financials like credit cards, bank accounts, loans, etc. For example, in the midst of my divorce I found out that my XAH had gotten a credit card account but got cards for both of us. I, of course, never saw the card. I think the plan was to run up a bunch of debt on it and then make me pay for half when the time came. But when I found out I immediately cancelled my name off the account and when we divorced he had to take all the credit card debt.

Also, he cashed out his retirement even though I probably would have been entitled to half.

Might be a good idea to put a fraud warning on your credit report so nothing can be opened or proceed without you being contacted directly.

Just sayin'....
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Old 11-05-2014, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by PurpleWilder View Post
Be very, very careful here. What I sense from what you are saying is that he wants to be divorced while you stay very much married. He wants to date, do what he wants, have no responsibilities....while you worry and manage and make sure financials are in order.

Eff that. (Yeah, I have some strong opinions on that attitude).

Please keep a close eye on shared financials like credit cards, bank accounts, loans, etc. For example, in the midst of my divorce I found out that my XAH had gotten a credit card account but got cards for both of us. I, of course, never saw the card. I think the plan was to run up a bunch of debt on it and then make me pay for half when the time came. But when I found out I immediately cancelled my name off the account and when we divorced he had to take all the credit card debt.

Also, he cashed out his retirement even though I probably would have been entitled to half.

Might be a good idea to put a fraud warning on your credit report so nothing can be opened or proceed without you being contacted directly.

Just sayin'....
Oh, good idea about the fraud warning. Actually, he told me that I was totally welcome to date and see other people, if I wanted to. He sees this as an agreement so that we can save some money yet move on with our lives. And, I just sat there was was like, "WHAT?? HUH???" Realizing that he was dead serious and that was when I was very glad that I had the forethought to record the conversation. Not that I can use it in the future, but it's good for me to go back and really listen to exactly what he said that made sense and what he said that didn't so that I can prepare myself for the future.
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Old 11-05-2014, 02:35 PM
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He sees this as an agreement so that we can save some money yet move on with our lives.
Yeah, no. He sees this as "when the time is right, when she has a bad day, she'll ask me to come back." If you want to move on with your life, you don't want to stay married or financially entangled. My ex tried similar things after the divorce -- it would be cheaper if we shared phone contracts; if I agreed to pay my share, he could keep me on the gym membership (which I would not be able to afford otherwise); we could still order season theater tickets together... yeah, no. I don't think so.
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Old 11-05-2014, 02:57 PM
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For all that I can laugh at it, it's really not that easy to deal with. Other than the fact that my STBXAH has a heat seeking missile in his pants, an unholy alliance with Jeagermeister, and the financial acumen of a 3 year old, he's a really nice guy.

God bless him, I say, and thank the dear Lord for lawyers. It's a lot easier to pay someone else to do the arguing. I'm out.
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Old 11-05-2014, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by lizatola View Post
Oh, good idea about the fraud warning. Actually, he told me that I was totally welcome to date and see other people, if I wanted to. He sees this as an agreement so that we can save some money yet move on with our lives. And, I just sat there was was like, "WHAT?? HUH???" Realizing that he was dead serious and that was when I was very glad that I had the forethought to record the conversation. Not that I can use it in the future, but it's good for me to go back and really listen to exactly what he said that made sense and what he said that didn't so that I can prepare myself for the future.
Translation: I want to F other people without having to commit, b/c I am married to a money-sucking wife who rejected me. They will feel sorry for me and I have zero commitments to anyone, while my lifestyle is only minimally impacted. When this situation no longer suits me, then I will file fast and you are on your own.
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