Question about Bi-Polar A's

Old 10-21-2014, 11:15 AM
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Question about Bi-Polar A's

I know we have a mental health forum, but I know a lot of you here in the F&F forum have experience here as well & I'm waaaay comfortable asking just about anything here. Background:

My friend's AH has been diagnosed with BDP after YEARS of craziness. He goes through these constant cycles of up/down, although it's absolutely more down than up. In fact his only "ups" ever happen following events that cater to his ego - spending large amounts of money on his toys or hobbies, etc.

His downs are much more frequent & enormous. He stays in bed for days at a time, skipping work whenever possible & utilizing every paid day off he earns the minute it becomes available. (he earns hours off based on hours worked, so as soon as he has 8 hours stored up, he uses it.)

He committed himself 4x in the last year+ for mental evaluation & has been seeing a therapist weekly. (last hospitalization was late spring) Every time he goes through another down cycle (although, again, there haven't been many, if ANY, "ups" in that same time frame... in fact he has not left their house for anything other than work or a family obligation in close to 2 years.) He has been medicated since then as well & every time he gets "bad" they adjust his meds saying that "they" haven't gotten it just right yet. (I say "they" in quotes because she has no contact with his drs & is not at all involved in any of the conversations about this OR in actually seeing the meds to know what has actually changed.... it's all based on what he tells her, there is no verification.) He also opted to go through electro-shock treatments on his brain the last time he was hospitalized for about a week, doing 6 of the 12 prescribed treatments before realizing that their insurance company would not cover it.

She & I spend a lot of time together on the weekends because she can't stand to be around all that negativity & wants to be out of the house with her DD doing fun stuff instead. We've also been doing a lot of girls nights out & going to the beach at night on the weekends because it is one of her favorite places to relax. Last weekend she had said she was going to stay home for a change (lol) and then on Thursday he started his dive down into depression again, not making it to work & staying in bed until Friday. Fri morning she texted me saying she was going to bring pumpkins over that evening after work for her DD & mine so they could do some carving & she could get out of the house. (Not knowing that this was happening, it didn't phase me - we often do things on Fridays with the kids)

When she told him she was going, he pouted & reminded her she had said she wanted to stay home. She basically said, yeah - but not with you like THIS. She calmly re-stated her boundary that she chooses to NOT get dragged down with him when he is like that.

So Friday afternoon just before she got off of work he texted her to let her know that he was fine now, everything was all better so she could/should just stay home.


Is that POSSIBLE? Can someone with a true mental illness like this have that much control over changing their mental state? FWIW - this is not the 1st time he's done a 180 when he's trying to gain her attention, although he used to do the opposite - dive deeper & deeper into it, becoming needier & needier until she called his bluff & told him to commit himself. Now that he's done that multiple times, it's not getting any reaction from her & she's been discovering that she is capable & happy on her own.

Admittedly, I know very little about BPD so maybe this is all much more common than I realize. She's calling BS, saying it's amazing that he can suddenly choose to get better in less than a working day, when in the past he's needed hospitalization, therapy & his meds adjusted (per him) in order to affect a change like this.

She asked me for an honest opinion & I'm all -->
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Old 10-21-2014, 11:15 AM
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If it matters, he is also currently dry from alcohol for the last year or so. He works no program & talks CONSTANTLY about wanting to drink, wishing he were a normal drinker, bringing it up in a way that makes her feel like he's asking permission to drink again. Recently he said his therapist suggested that he try AA in order to earn to socialize with other people & to reach out to others that struggle in the same ways that he does, but after 1 meeting he declared it "nothing but a bunch of people standing around b@tching about their lives" and hasn't returned. He & my RAH have been friends & in music projects together for more than 10 yrs & he knows RAH attends multiple meetings & is involved with AA but hasn't reached out to him for any info on alternate meetings, etc.
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Old 10-21-2014, 11:30 AM
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Is that POSSIBLE? Can someone with a true mental illness like this have that much control over changing their mental state?

I see this with my schizophrenic mother sometimes. I think that it's not so much control over their mental state per se, but rather the cognitive ability to put their own desires ahead of their symptoms.
My mom believes that people she knows are replaced by impostors. She is able to detect them due to subtle differences in appearance that only she can see (because they are caused by visual hallucinations)- moles, an inch or two difference in height, size of feet or ears, etc.
She refuses to interact with what she calls "other versions" of people that she knows. Has actually cut off contact with me for months at a time, even as long as a year once. The night my DS5 was born she hadn't spoken to me in months. I called to tell her about the birth of her grandson she said, "Congratulations young lady, whoever you are." It was devastating.
BUT
If she needs something- lawn mowed, a ride home from surgery, whatever, she can put aside her principles and accept help from an "impostor" in order to get her needs met.
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Old 10-21-2014, 11:52 AM
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I do not have first-hand experience with bipolar disorder, but one of my favorite cousins has been living with it for twenty years. I do know that bipolar manifests differently in different people--some people are like your friend's AH--long, deep lows with rare, brief highs. My cousin's bipolar disorder also manifests that way. She is much more stable now, but it took years to get her medications right. When she would descend into a depressive low, NOTHING could get her out of bed. It required a tremendous amount of medical intervention for her just to become functional again. Now, in her more managed state, she is extremely involved in her own care. She has worked very hard to identify some of her triggers, and the signs that she is starting to enter a depressive or manic episode. She has a litany of intervention techniques she employs, including fast-acting temporary meds (on top of her normal daily meds) as well as non-pharmaceutical strategies. In fact, I have always looked at her handling of her mental illness as very comparable to the way an addict in active recovery handles his or her situation.

It certainly seems, to my totally untrained eye, that he might be manipulating his diagnosis. Then again, I can definitely see the benefit in her NOT getting all wrapped up in his treatment plan as a way to "verify" his diagnosis. Something like that would totally send me down a codie spiral... so I guess if it were me, and a close friend came to me with similar concerns, I would say something like "it's certainly possible there is more going on here than bi-polar disorder, and I agree that not everything makes much sense. That said, it might be worthwhile to decide how it would impact your sanity and serenity to go digging into his care and treatment and diagnosis."

I mean, she suspects the truth...what would it accomplish to "prove" it? Unless it would significantly change how she sees their relationship and might be a motivating factor for her to leave...perhaps it's best for her to just keep on her own path and let Mr. Drama do what he does.
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Old 10-21-2014, 11:56 AM
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My brother in law behaves a lot like that. He has bi-polar disorder, social anxiety, is abstinent, and a type two diabetic. He gets wonky when he doesnt take his meds on a regular basis. Oh and he still misses drinking a lot as well. He had done 90 days inpatient, 90 meetings in 30 days, than was slowly brought down in number of meetings until he hit six months. He has been dry 5 years but not much has changed that I see except he maintains regular employment
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:02 PM
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I have a close friend who is bipolar. Certainly it does cycle. She is rapid cycle BP II. She has also done and finished 12 cycles of shock therapy. From what I have learned, that is not taken lightly. Shock therapy is a drastic treatment that they use when other medications are not working. For her, they were really very helpful to her recovery.

I see her at times she is manic. I see her when she is depressed. I see her at times when she seems completely normal. What I don't see is that it changes from moment to moment or day to day even. Hers are normally more "blocks" of time.

So my guess is that he may be more in control at those times than he is letting on. Seems manipulative to me.

Either way, I think that she has set these boundaries and is sticking to them and working on herself and focusing on her and her DD, those are really great things. When you are around someone who is constantly very very depressed or even very very manic, it wears you out. Good for her.

I am sorry your friend is dealing with this. It's great she has a good friend like you to lean on!
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:10 PM
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Firesprite-

Though they were two different people in my life, as I was coming to understand that my ex was struggling with drinking my best friend in town was struggling with bipolar disorder (undiagnosed). You can imagine the mess that I was as a result (I am much better now).

She is excellent about taking meds etc but it did take awhile for her bipolar to come under control because there are different types of the disease. She has a type that is called rapid cycling and she can have mood changes up to 15 times a day. This is not typical for bipolar but it is part of some people's disease.

It was really helpful for me to understand that about her disease. It allowed me to be healthy toward myself if there were changes in her demeanor that I was not anticipating in quick succession (that is all about me and my recovery, not hers).

She had previously struggled with other addictions in her life, but not alcohol so I don't know how they overlap.

Similar to loving a person that struggles with alcohol learning to handle myself in the midst of a loved one's disease was complex and came slowly for me. I am interested to see what others post so I can continue to learn.
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:32 PM
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Yeah, it can happen. Folks can burst through the symptoms for the short-term for various reasons. The important thing is to look for long-term patterns.

My XAH is bipolar. Manic, he was the funniest and most charming guy in the room. So tall and good-looking, really cool, HILARIOUS, great sex, just a riot. But mania and depression are like getting a check for $1200 after the best meal of your life. At first, with mania, you get the dump of all the good chemicals and feel like a million bucks, you can do anything, be anybody, then your body tries to cope with a lack of the feel-good chemicals while it tries to make it all up, and struggles and struggles and struggles to do so. My XAH was very irritable and anxious, always manipulative, pessimistic, and combative, regardless of where he was in his cycling. The mania made it seem less dangerous somehow.

Mental illness or no mental illness, people are still accountable for how they treat people. If he's manipulative and conniving with her, eventually she's going to have to make a call about whether she wants that in her life, whether he's mentally ill, alcoholic, medicated, not medicated, or whatever. Controlling is controlling, whether he's doing it with guilt trips or his fists.
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Old 10-21-2014, 01:14 PM
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So interesting, thanks to all who responded.

The manic thing - that's what you call the "up" part of the cycle? He's NEVER like that unless he's drunk. Otherwise he's just the sarcastic drip in the corner of the room, relentlessly judging everyone around him. If anyone is more knowledgeable than he is about something he refuses to enter into a conversation with that person. He is never, ever up & happy & energetic without alcohol or drugs. (Maybe that's normal for BDP at times too?)

I do see a lot of manipulation & narcissism on his part... it's been REALLY bad in the past. He put a tracking app on her phone years ago & my sister found it. (it was draining her battery all the time& she just casually asked us to look at it when we were all together one night because she knew her brand new state-of-the-art phone shouldn't need to be charged 5x per day & that something was wrong....) My friend waited until she was home, made a comment about needing to look through her phone for this issue, then left him in the room alone with the phone for 10 mins.... when she returned the app was removed.

In the past she's let him handle everything in their lives & he would limit the options he presented to her when they needed to make decisions - for instance, he would select his fave 3 options out of 10 & then tell her ONLY those 3 options existed. A lot of it was basic crap too that she could know at any time, like which monthly plans were available at Verizon. For the longest time (years ago!) he had her convinced they didn't have texting plans - that they had no choice but to pay-per-text & that was why she wasn't "allowed" to text from her phone.

I know narcissism can be a component of other illnesses & it's kind of like a chicken & egg thing, but I have also wondered if he's playing both sides here - her & his therapists. He alludes to his "horrible childhood" as the source of his issues but when you ask him about his trauma or abuse he has nothing to offer outside of the typical stuff we all call sibling rivalry & not getting on well with his parents.

On one hand I understand her not wanting to get involved in his therapy (like you said Wisconsin, it would be so hard NOT to get over-involved) but on the other she needs to decide if it's healthy to stay detached like this while raising a child in the same home. I've told her that for no other reason she should consider getting more info simply BECAUSE they have a kid together.

I definitely agree that she needs to figure out what matters TO HER & for her DD & make that a priority. I've told her the most unhealthy part of all of this is that (until recently) she just bases her reactions on his actions, lives life with a to-go bag packed in her trunk at all times & acts as though it's a matter of "when" not "if" he's going to relapse.

I think it would make her very happy for him to just come home with a 6-pack one day so she could clap her hands, say "that's it - boundary crossed!" & walk away with reason. I think it's also possible that he's not doing it for exactly the same reason. That maybe all the times he's moaning about not being able to drink he's actually checking to see if she's relaxed her boundaries & will accept it.

She just asked me this weekend, "What am I WAITING for????"

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Old 10-21-2014, 01:17 PM
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Indeed, what is she waiting for? Only she knows.

I think I did the same, it was like in my own head I needed my X to cross my boundaries to give myself permission to get out of that relationship. In hind sight, I did not need any permission except to give it to myself. Wish I would have done that years earlier.

You are a great friend FS!
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Old 10-21-2014, 04:51 PM
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This is brief as I am at work but...

I'd encourage your friend to at least have a meeting with his healthcare team and understand what the actual diagnosis is.

My AH told me he was diagnosed with Bi-Polar when we met. Throughout the years I learned a lot about bi-polar and it didnt really resonate with AH's behaviours. 'Rapid cycling' is only 'rapid' in compariosn to bi-polar I or II. From memory its four or more changes in mood during the year. My AH used to change much more quickly than that.

Turns our his bi-polar was actually borderline personality disorder. There was no bi-polar. Complicated by addiciton and GAD.

I never would have found out had I not eventually insisted on meeting with his psych - as so many things didnt add up. Now i know. My counsellor encouraged me to do this - said we can take 'keeping our side of the stress clean' too far sometimes. KNowledge is power and all that.

But at the end of the day - as everyone says - the cause doesnt change the behaviour or how one of being treated by their partner...
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