changeneeded

I don't know about the rest of the group, but I know I kept silent for many a times because of that exact response.

I would say something to the effect of: " I just don't think your drinking is working anymore. It certainly isn't doing what you intended, relaxing. Last night when you... blah blah blah." And, suddenly I was feeling ashamed, angry, and pinned against the wall (not literal) because of some terrible thing I did. Nagging, complaining, whatever he could spew. Suddenly we were not talking about his drinking and behavior, but me and the condition of the house.

My point is: he is probably trying to take any attention of him and his drinking and bring the attention somewhere else. You've put "IT" out in the open; now he has to admit it to himself, he probably doesn't like it.

Stay strong!!

dandylion

Lucybb.....It is important for you to realize that "normal logic" ,that you and most of us grew up with, gets turned topsy turvy when dealing with an addict.
What seems logical to you will be lost on him. The reason for this is that he will have to protect his ability to drink AT ALL COSTS. To give up drinking forever sounds just like death to an alcoholic. It is the way they cope with their feelings. The world looks too difficult to cope with.... without it. Alcohol, to the alcoholic, is like water to a fish....like oxygen to you.

Everything in his world...everything...is viewed through the filter of his desperate need to drink.
So, don't even be surprised that he doesn't respond to your logic. His reality is not your reality.

If you keep this in m ind...it is easier to remember that all of these absurd things are because he is an alcoholic...and, has nothing to do with you.

dandylion

ladyscribbler

My ex used to blame the animals any time he wet the bed, even the dog, whose legs were too short to get upstairs, much less jump up on the bed. He was and is still incapable of taking any personal responsibility for himself. That denial is a powerful force, powerful enough to make someone endanger their own children in order to preserve their ability to consume alcohol.
The Antabuse thing is a smokescreen, as is his talk of what YOU need to change. If he puts you on the defensive with a bunch of phantom accusations, then the focus is taken away from his drinking. My ex did that as well, especially after he had effed up royally. A night spent in jail or the hospital was always my fault because (Insert Excuse Here).
You cannot trust him to give your son rides anywhere, no matter what time of day or however sober he may seem before he leaves. My dad came to pick us up drunk once and my mom didn't let us go with him. He ranted and raved but finally left when she threatened to call the police. He never showed up drunk again, but he kept a thermos of vodka in his truck and would start drinking as soon as he pulled away from the house with us in the truck.
I have been attending Alanon meetings for the last year, which has helped me to deal with my own issues surrounding other people's alcoholism and how it has affected my life. I also do therapy, which was helpful, but Alanon has made a tremendous difference for me.

hopeful4

Everyone has given you a lot of good input. One thing I will mention is that unless you are going to actually put the pill in his mouth and check under his tongue, you won't really know if he takes it or not.

Do you really want to become his warden??

I'm so sorry you are going through this.

lucybb

This is a very good point. I also wondered how I would know if he substituted other pills for them - I wouldn't know what they look like.

I don't see the point of his saying he will take the Antabuse - I still won't trust him. Frankly, what I got from his response to me was that he thinks he will prove to me that I falsely accused him, and then he will make me pay by saying I have a lot of things to improve. Taking these pills does nothing to deal with the broken trust and lack of remorse for years of emotional abuse, let alone with the issues that contribute to addiction.

Hammer

Raising Chickens sounds nice.

The rest . . . maybe not so much.

Chelsea1029

I am sorry you are going through this. I can relate to so much of your situation. Good for you for seeking help from a therapist and trying to detach. Please take care of yourself.

hopeful4

I am glad you don't see those pills as a cure. Many partners want it to be so, and it's not. Many alcoholics prepare and don't take them for a couple of days or whatever. True recovery comes from the addict fighting for sobriety, every single day, forever. That is a big commitment.

Tight Hugs XXX

lucybb

I read and re-read these responses to reassure myself that I am not overreacting or going crazy. Since the conversation yesterday morning, we carry on as if nothing happened. Even my driving them to Beavers last night is accepted without comment. It's as if it never happened. I have to work hard not to second guess myself and wonder if I was wrong or overreacting. I know I wasn't. The complete lack of openness and communication would be intolerable in a normal relationship, but frankly a quiet relief with us as I am stressed enough over what happened and don't wish to keep revisiting it, even though I would love to know what he is thinking and planning. So I bought Codependent No More, seeing it recommended here, and am working through that to help with detaching. This forum is a great support in seeing this kind of craziness is not uncommon.

Not sure what will come but working on getting stronger so I can deal with it. Next step - working on making things happen rather than waiting for the next shoe to drop and just reacting.

kudzujean

He's full of fecal matter.

Good on you keeping your boundaries about him driving drunk with your son in the car.

Chelsea1029

It's amazing how these relationships can make us question our judgement/sanity! I think it's so hard to see it clearly when you are in it and in survival mode. Looking back I'm amazed at the things I tolerated and the way I was able to deny/ignore what was going on.

BrokenInPieces

The denial, the blame, feeling like you're the crazy one... I was only with my axbf for a couple of years and, sadly, it was long enough for all of that to pervade my thinking and leave me confused, guilt-ridden and questioning reality. It was here at SR that I learned that, while I had my part, it was not my fault.

It takes courage to set boundaries and enforce them. Stay strong. ((hugs))

MTSweetpea

Hi Honey! I'm so proud of you for being so strong. You're doing an awesome job at clearly communicating with him and setting and maintaining those boundaries. He probably does know that you're right, which is why he is playing the Blame Game with you. I remember that (and feeling guilty and like I was crazy) from some of my past relationships. You are better than all of this and deserve better.

I know you are doing what you feel you must to keep you and your son safe, and I can only imagine how difficult this is. I'm hoping and praying that he commits to helping himself soon. It's a terrible thing for everyone to deal with and I think that on some levels he also isn't fully aware of that yet.

Big hugs.

hopeful4

There is nothing an addict would like more than for us to pretend it is not even happening, to just shut up about it. Don't fall for that. While harping and nagging them does not help, burying your head in the sand does not help either.

I am glad you are finding the forum helpful. Have a great weekend!

lucybb

What is the balance in communication with an AH? We carry on with a veneer of politeness. In fact, since he has been seeing the wellness consultant his behaviour is so much better and he is exceedingly polite - thanks me for every little thing I do, where once I would be berated for not doing enough when I did everything. I should be grateful but it grates on me. It seems the politeness of someone you just meet, there is no real communication. As long as he does not commit to sobriety, I feel this nice behaviour can only be temporary. I need to keep reminding myself, as every once in a while he screws up large, like the driving drunk. I need to remember to ensure I don't let my guard down, because then I start to second guess myself and fear that I'm making too much of this and feel guilty. It feels like a constant struggle to not give into this illusion of improvement. I feel that changing everyday behaviour without changing the fundamental issues cannot last.

So, I understand that nagging and complaining doesn't help, but I've only ever even mentioned the drinking to him (including asking him if he had been drinking) a handful of times over the past 6 years. I have never yelled at him, or told him off, or insulted him, not ever. There is no real communication that happens. I am still afraid to say anything because of how he has reacted, and he has no idea I've been talking to people about this, including people he knows. Is it possible or even helpful to speak openly about it when the person gets so enraged at even a mention of drinking? Can you say 'I know you were drinking last night' or do you just always carry on like nothing happened and they think they got away with whatever, including sneaking to their hidey spot to drink?

I think my main issue is that working on problems you have as a couple, including lack of communication, seems irrelevant when one of you has an addiction. Is there any point in working on communication when one of you is answering under control of an addiction? When you don't trust the person anyways, so what's the point of more communication?

ladyscribbler

I think my main issue is that working on problems you have as a couple, including lack of communication, seems irrelevant when one of you has an addiction. Is there any point in working on communication when one of you is answering under control of an addiction? When you don't trust the person anyways, so what's the point of more communication?

You hit it right on the head. Carrying on a relationship with an active addict is a very one-sided exercise. Just keeping things going day to day without excess drama is about the best you can hope for. Any improvement in communication or the relationship in general is impossible because the addicted partner is is more devoted to protecting access to their drug of choice than anything else. Active addicts not capable of putting effort into much of anything outside their addiction, especially as things progress.

Sikofit

Well, I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I live with my AH and have managed to remain married for almost 26 years. We travel and share some common interests. However, I don't ever let him think he's fooling me anymore--and it's been this way for the past few years. I let him know that I know exactly what he's planning to do, as far as walking to the bar, getting a drink at a sporting event, etc. It doesn't mean he won't drink--but at least he's aware that I'm not going to hide it for him.

I'll always tell anyone who asks, kids (adults now) or other family, that if they can't reach him it's because he's at the bar. I've learned that if I am upset about something, I have to wait until the next day when he sobers up--it does no good to engage while he's drunk.

It's not a perfect life, but I don't know too many people who have those anyway. And I do have the peace of mind to know that I've chosen to stay--its MY choice--at least for now.

hopeful4

No matter what sort of communication goes on, there is always going to be that underlying elephant in the room, the drinking. It is going to take center stage even when he tries to ignore it.

FeliciaM

Ahhh, denial. Three weeks ago my now XABF binge drank with a friend of ours. He didn't stop drinking for 3 days. Drove himself to hospital with severe pancriatitis on a Sunday afternoon. He was released Thursday. We had an argument, he was drunk on the phone Saturday so I cancelled out dinner. I called him an hour later. Had to take my dad to ER. He was totally wasted. Said there is blood everywhere and he was hurt but wouldn't say what happened.. My sister relieved me at the ER.

XABF fell head first into the office door, sliced a 5 inch gash from eyebrow to hairline (he shaves his head) it was wide open down to his scalp. Of course they did a BAC. It was .188. He denied he was drinking and argued the blood test was wrong.

He already has 3 DUIs, served jail time twice, on home monitoring 1 year, and 2 separate times a year each, the thing you blow into to start your car.

And he had his license revoked for a year, his wife chauffeured him to weekend jail and work. Plus several thousand $ in fines and 3 year probation.

In July his license was restored, the blow thing removed from the car and by October he was drinking and driving AGAIN. And still denied he was an alcoholic, until the day he realized it was over. He finally said the words, "I am an alcoholic, I choose the bottle over you. I will die alone. Don't waste your time on me."

I know now how sick he is. The next time he's caught, he looses everything. Just hope he doesn't kill someone.

I tell you this to demonstrate how strong denial is and how good at hiding their drinking they are.

Do NOT get into the car with your AH behind the wheel ever. He's been driving drunk for years, you just didn't know it.

My prayers are with you. Keep posting. You will find lots of support here.

Brave

I agree with Felicia- "he's been drunk driving for years, you just didn't know it."

In my experience, this veneer of politeness could go on forever until you decide you can't take it anymore. Your real reactions to this are like holding up a mirror to your AH. And he sees what he is, and what he's done, and can't handle it... and so he reacts in the way that he did, and runs back to his denial.

My XH once said that I make him out to be a monster. That really upset me, so I took it to my counselor. She said, "You've never said anything about him that wasn't true, right? Things that he's done or said, whether drunk or sober? So basically he looks at that and deep down he knows how awful those things are. But he can't deal with the gravity of it all, so he goes into denial & accuses you of making him out to be a monster." Does that make any sense?