Trying to understand...could he be an alcoholic?
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Join Date: Oct 2014
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Trying to understand...could he be an alcoholic?
I am in a marriage where I am desperately trying to understand how or why things have become the way they are. Is it me? Is it us? Is it my husband's addictions? sorry...this got quite long. I guess I really wonder whether alcohol is a major cause of many of our problems or if we were simply doomed from the start because we rushed into things...
I married my husband in November 2010. In a span of a few months, we got married, bought a house and I got a new job. We dated a year and a half before getting married and I realized too soon after that I may have made a huge mistake. In addition to drinking regularly, my husband is on anti-depressant, anti-anxiety and hyperthyroid medications. He is a smoker, but switched to e-cigarettes in the last few years.
Before we got married, I was noticing that he seemed to be drinking a bottle of wine a night. I don't really drink so I didn't know or understand whether this was excessive. I remember realizing drinking was a topic I could not bring up without upsetting him. Even with a simple question such as, "Why do you drink?" with no anger, just honest curiosity.
Many of our fights in the beginning were about the money he spent everyday on buying coffee, eating out, drinking and smoking. He does not turn into a crazy drunk. He is not abusive, not even verbally. He actually makes it a point to say positive and encouraging things to me. He goes to work every day. They love him at work and he has been taking on more responsibilities and making his way up. I have a master's degree and he is on the brink of reaching my same level with his bachelor's. He takes care of the important things. He's not how I imagined an alcoholic to be. His family does not think he has a problem. He is too detached from his friends for them to know. He is not violent.
Every single day, he needs a nap after work. After dinner, he sits on the couch, drinks and watches tv for the rest of the night. He doesn't *have* to drink, he *wants* to drink, he says. He will go out at any time of the night to get it. In the morning, he drags himself to get up in time for work. We have very flexible work hours and it's not always crucial to show up at specific times. I think over time, he has been getting into work later, more often. More recently, I've noticed him taking a sick day here and there, when he feels too ill to get out of bed. I am not sure if anyone at work has noticed any changes.
On many weekend mornings, he will lay in bed until late morning, putter around unproductively for a few hours and then take a nap again in the early afternoon if we have no particular plans. About once a week or two, he will complain that he feels sick and he doesn't understand why. When this happens, he will just lay in bed for most of the day. Any plans will go out the window. I take this time to relax and read a book, I tell myself that's what I'd rather do.
He says it's not related to the alcohol because he's always drank and didn't feel this way before. Quite regularly on many days, he will have shaky hands and he says he doesn't know why. I suggested once that maybe it's related to alcohol but he said he does not drink that much and therefore it's not the alcohol and it's related to his hyperthyroidism, maybe. He got very aggravated with me, told me that he has read all about alcohol withdrawal symptoms and I don't know anything about it.
I honestly don't know how time passed by so quickly. January 2014. I finally brought it up very frankly. Three years and I have not said a word. I have not told him to stop drinking. I can't stand by and say nothing anymore. I said very firmly, I do not like him drinking every single day, in the amounts he drinks (a bottle of wine is his choice, sometimes he switches things up). He admitted he is unable to stop at one or two drinks.
I can't make him stop, but I wanted to state things very clearly because I didn't know if he thought I just didn't care. In his opinion, he does not drink very much at all compared to "real" alcoholics. He'll get his act together soon, get in shape and stop drinking. He might slip up but that's normal and I just have to be positive and supportive.
It is now October 2014. At most, I think he stopped drinking for about a week. Then he started again, first in small amounts but not too long after, right back to his excessive amounts. He did this a few times. I don't make any comments. I am living with him far away from my family and most of my friends. He has a DUI from the year before we started dating. This unfortunately barred him from attending our friends' wedding in Canada this month and I decided not to go by myself.
He has so many issues that I don't know what's causing what. Is he drinking because he's depressed? Is he depressed because he drinks? Is his hyperthyroidism causing all the problems? Or is the alcohol the cause? Is it everything combined? Is he depressed because he's in a crappy marriage? Or rather, is the crappy marriage making him more depressed than he was before? When he was upset and irritated, he said it was me, that I made him this way. But he changes when he's cooled down and no longer mad. No, it's not your fault at all, he insists.
For at least a year now, we are simply like roommates. But really it's probably been longer because time passes by far too quickly. I am 31 years old and I am not sure what I am even hoping for anymore out of this relationship. I don't want kids and I definitely have no desire to have any with him. Would I feel differently with someone else?
Last year, he stopped drinking for a few months while eating healthy and exercising. To him, this is proof he can do it, if he wants to. He decided he wanted to start having drinks occasionally again. Within a week or two, he was back to every day, bottle of wine or equivalent (and subsequently, stopped exercising and eating healthy). He just doesn't want to change, right now. But will he ever want to?
Have I given my all, tried my hardest to exhaust all options? I'm not sure. I have stopped trying and he has stopped trying. I have a hard time seeing what is worth even trying for anymore. Am I just being too hard on him? Drinking is not our only problem. We have gone to counseling but everything said in counseling is thrown out the window when we come home. Would taking drinking out even fix us? Do we clash because we are just very different people? Which was the cause, which was the effect? I'll always feel like I just haven't tried hard enough. I don't know when to give up. Maybe we are simply torturing each other.
For anyone that actually reads this, I thank you and appreciate it. I'm not sure what I'm looking for here. Thoughts, experiences, advice? Maybe assurance that Im not just imagining a problem or blaming it on the wrong thing?
I married my husband in November 2010. In a span of a few months, we got married, bought a house and I got a new job. We dated a year and a half before getting married and I realized too soon after that I may have made a huge mistake. In addition to drinking regularly, my husband is on anti-depressant, anti-anxiety and hyperthyroid medications. He is a smoker, but switched to e-cigarettes in the last few years.
Before we got married, I was noticing that he seemed to be drinking a bottle of wine a night. I don't really drink so I didn't know or understand whether this was excessive. I remember realizing drinking was a topic I could not bring up without upsetting him. Even with a simple question such as, "Why do you drink?" with no anger, just honest curiosity.
Many of our fights in the beginning were about the money he spent everyday on buying coffee, eating out, drinking and smoking. He does not turn into a crazy drunk. He is not abusive, not even verbally. He actually makes it a point to say positive and encouraging things to me. He goes to work every day. They love him at work and he has been taking on more responsibilities and making his way up. I have a master's degree and he is on the brink of reaching my same level with his bachelor's. He takes care of the important things. He's not how I imagined an alcoholic to be. His family does not think he has a problem. He is too detached from his friends for them to know. He is not violent.
Every single day, he needs a nap after work. After dinner, he sits on the couch, drinks and watches tv for the rest of the night. He doesn't *have* to drink, he *wants* to drink, he says. He will go out at any time of the night to get it. In the morning, he drags himself to get up in time for work. We have very flexible work hours and it's not always crucial to show up at specific times. I think over time, he has been getting into work later, more often. More recently, I've noticed him taking a sick day here and there, when he feels too ill to get out of bed. I am not sure if anyone at work has noticed any changes.
On many weekend mornings, he will lay in bed until late morning, putter around unproductively for a few hours and then take a nap again in the early afternoon if we have no particular plans. About once a week or two, he will complain that he feels sick and he doesn't understand why. When this happens, he will just lay in bed for most of the day. Any plans will go out the window. I take this time to relax and read a book, I tell myself that's what I'd rather do.
He says it's not related to the alcohol because he's always drank and didn't feel this way before. Quite regularly on many days, he will have shaky hands and he says he doesn't know why. I suggested once that maybe it's related to alcohol but he said he does not drink that much and therefore it's not the alcohol and it's related to his hyperthyroidism, maybe. He got very aggravated with me, told me that he has read all about alcohol withdrawal symptoms and I don't know anything about it.
I honestly don't know how time passed by so quickly. January 2014. I finally brought it up very frankly. Three years and I have not said a word. I have not told him to stop drinking. I can't stand by and say nothing anymore. I said very firmly, I do not like him drinking every single day, in the amounts he drinks (a bottle of wine is his choice, sometimes he switches things up). He admitted he is unable to stop at one or two drinks.
I can't make him stop, but I wanted to state things very clearly because I didn't know if he thought I just didn't care. In his opinion, he does not drink very much at all compared to "real" alcoholics. He'll get his act together soon, get in shape and stop drinking. He might slip up but that's normal and I just have to be positive and supportive.
It is now October 2014. At most, I think he stopped drinking for about a week. Then he started again, first in small amounts but not too long after, right back to his excessive amounts. He did this a few times. I don't make any comments. I am living with him far away from my family and most of my friends. He has a DUI from the year before we started dating. This unfortunately barred him from attending our friends' wedding in Canada this month and I decided not to go by myself.
He has so many issues that I don't know what's causing what. Is he drinking because he's depressed? Is he depressed because he drinks? Is his hyperthyroidism causing all the problems? Or is the alcohol the cause? Is it everything combined? Is he depressed because he's in a crappy marriage? Or rather, is the crappy marriage making him more depressed than he was before? When he was upset and irritated, he said it was me, that I made him this way. But he changes when he's cooled down and no longer mad. No, it's not your fault at all, he insists.
For at least a year now, we are simply like roommates. But really it's probably been longer because time passes by far too quickly. I am 31 years old and I am not sure what I am even hoping for anymore out of this relationship. I don't want kids and I definitely have no desire to have any with him. Would I feel differently with someone else?
Last year, he stopped drinking for a few months while eating healthy and exercising. To him, this is proof he can do it, if he wants to. He decided he wanted to start having drinks occasionally again. Within a week or two, he was back to every day, bottle of wine or equivalent (and subsequently, stopped exercising and eating healthy). He just doesn't want to change, right now. But will he ever want to?
Have I given my all, tried my hardest to exhaust all options? I'm not sure. I have stopped trying and he has stopped trying. I have a hard time seeing what is worth even trying for anymore. Am I just being too hard on him? Drinking is not our only problem. We have gone to counseling but everything said in counseling is thrown out the window when we come home. Would taking drinking out even fix us? Do we clash because we are just very different people? Which was the cause, which was the effect? I'll always feel like I just haven't tried hard enough. I don't know when to give up. Maybe we are simply torturing each other.
For anyone that actually reads this, I thank you and appreciate it. I'm not sure what I'm looking for here. Thoughts, experiences, advice? Maybe assurance that Im not just imagining a problem or blaming it on the wrong thing?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: London
Posts: 32
i am bipolar and i can see alot of my self in what you have written, I am not a doctor, but for years I had a driving job, and would count back the hours from my start time to ensure i was ok,normally a bottle. Not having a regular start time may increase the chances of one bottle turning into two. Research bipolar it has 3 different types and you can get stuck in one phase or another. Big life events can trigger it and it may be easily be mistaken for something else.
As I say im not a doctor or a professional just sharing my experience.
Good luck to both of you.
As I say im not a doctor or a professional just sharing my experience.
Good luck to both of you.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
Welcome -- and I'm sorry you felt the need to find SR, but I'm happy you did. This is a good, safe place to ask these questions, and you'll get straightforward answers from people who have been in similar situations.
I kind of got stuck here because this reminded me of me:
And like I say to my kids: "What do you do when you've made a mistake? You apologize, and then you correct it." Except I didn't. I felt so ashamed of making such a remarkable mistake that I stayed. For twenty years.
When you ask:
my answer is, YES. Yes, it is. But I would switch the order. I would say "It is because of your husband and his addictions and what living with that has done to you."
Your husband says That's what mine said, too. He wanted to drink so badly that he hasn't stopped, even though he's lost his family, his friends, his job, and his home. I guess he just really likes to drink, huh?
Yep, I heard that, too. My ex also didn't want to go to AA "because that place is full of drunks."
I could keep copying something from almost every part of your post, my friend. Been there, done that, got the scars. But here's where I think you might get a foothold to start thinking about this:
Someone said to me when I was married to an A, "What if he never wants to quit? What if nothing ever changes? What if the marriage you have today is the best your marriage will ever be? Is that what you want out of life?"
Because that's where we need to start. In every relationship. Your husband is drinking a bottle of wine a day (or more). He doesn't want to change. He is fine with doing what he's doing, living like he's living. You are the one who has a problem with it.
And you have every right to have a problem with it. So maybe there's a woman out there who'd be totally content in a marriage with a guy who drinks to excess, whose drinking is making her change her behavior and choices, a guy who's like a room mate (and who if he continues drinking will get only worse, not better). Let her have him. If that's not what you want.
Why do you think you're imagining a problem?
I'm asking tongue-in-cheek because I've been there, remember? I asked the same question. And someone asked me, "Why do you ask me if it's a problem? If it's a problem to you, then it is a problem."
I've used this example before, but... I have a friend whose husband is super-needy and requires more constant contact than a toddler. When she travels for work, he will text her incessantly (like 40 messages from the time she leaves the house till she gets to the airport 2 hours away). He will call her. He will be devastated and angry if she doesn't call at least three times a day. That, to me, is pretty much my definition of HELL. I would last about ten minutes with that guy.
She, on the other hand, wouldn't be able to be married to a guy who doesn't own a suit and doesn't know who to dance and hates casinos. Like the one I'm married to.
What you want of life, and what you find acceptable and are willing to live with is different than what I would. Trust yourself. If this is a problem for you, IT'S A PROBLEM. Regardless of what everyone else says.
As for "blaming it on the wrong thing" -- many of us here have spouses or ex spouses or parents who have both a mental illness (or two) and are alcoholics. I struggled with that with my ex -- did I really have a right to leave him if he was sick? But as his alcoholism progressed, I came to the point where I decided that (as one of the quotes in my signature says), "Unacceptable behavior is unacceptable." It no longer mattered why he behaved like he did, I could no longer accept it.
I think learning about alcoholism, what it does to the alcoholic, and what it does to the people who live with the alcoholic, is a great place to start. There are a whole bunch of "stickied" posts at the top of the forum, for starters. I also always recommend Al-Anon. There's something about sitting in a room with other people and hearing them tell stories that are just like yours -- it makes you feel less alone, less nuts, and stronger.
I kind of got stuck here because this reminded me of me:
We dated a year and a half before getting married and I realized too soon after that I may have made a huge mistake.
When you ask:
Is it me? Is it us? Is it my husband's addictions?
Your husband says
He doesn't *have* to drink, he *wants* to drink.
In his opinion, he does not drink very much at all compared to "real" alcoholics.
I could keep copying something from almost every part of your post, my friend. Been there, done that, got the scars. But here's where I think you might get a foothold to start thinking about this:
He just doesn't want to change, right now. But will he ever want to?
Because that's where we need to start. In every relationship. Your husband is drinking a bottle of wine a day (or more). He doesn't want to change. He is fine with doing what he's doing, living like he's living. You are the one who has a problem with it.
And you have every right to have a problem with it. So maybe there's a woman out there who'd be totally content in a marriage with a guy who drinks to excess, whose drinking is making her change her behavior and choices, a guy who's like a room mate (and who if he continues drinking will get only worse, not better). Let her have him. If that's not what you want.
Why do you think you're imagining a problem?
I'm asking tongue-in-cheek because I've been there, remember? I asked the same question. And someone asked me, "Why do you ask me if it's a problem? If it's a problem to you, then it is a problem."
I've used this example before, but... I have a friend whose husband is super-needy and requires more constant contact than a toddler. When she travels for work, he will text her incessantly (like 40 messages from the time she leaves the house till she gets to the airport 2 hours away). He will call her. He will be devastated and angry if she doesn't call at least three times a day. That, to me, is pretty much my definition of HELL. I would last about ten minutes with that guy.
She, on the other hand, wouldn't be able to be married to a guy who doesn't own a suit and doesn't know who to dance and hates casinos. Like the one I'm married to.
What you want of life, and what you find acceptable and are willing to live with is different than what I would. Trust yourself. If this is a problem for you, IT'S A PROBLEM. Regardless of what everyone else says.
As for "blaming it on the wrong thing" -- many of us here have spouses or ex spouses or parents who have both a mental illness (or two) and are alcoholics. I struggled with that with my ex -- did I really have a right to leave him if he was sick? But as his alcoholism progressed, I came to the point where I decided that (as one of the quotes in my signature says), "Unacceptable behavior is unacceptable." It no longer mattered why he behaved like he did, I could no longer accept it.
I think learning about alcoholism, what it does to the alcoholic, and what it does to the people who live with the alcoholic, is a great place to start. There are a whole bunch of "stickied" posts at the top of the forum, for starters. I also always recommend Al-Anon. There's something about sitting in a room with other people and hearing them tell stories that are just like yours -- it makes you feel less alone, less nuts, and stronger.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,792
SiL- Sorry that you are here. I don't really think that you have to have a clear cut decision that your husband is an A. It really doesn't matter to anyone except him, when and if he decides that he has a problem. At that point he can say it, you don't need to.
As Amy states you have an issue and that is why you are here. Your husband sounds no different then a lot of husband at SR. What we try and do here is empower the spouse to help herself get "better". Meaning detaching from the spouse. What happens in our lives is that our free time is consumed on what "they" are doing or not doing. You will find the healthlier we become we don't care what they are doing. We are living our life and working our program.
I would recommend hitting an alanon meeting or an open AA meeting. You will learns so much from one on one contact with people living the same life. You can get the co-dependent no more book and learn what to do and not to do. Keep reading SR as the people in here have lived our lives and can help with anything you ask.
Keep the faith and do your homework. This will get better, not saying today, or tomorrow. Maybe in a year, but if you do your homework it will get better!!
As Amy states you have an issue and that is why you are here. Your husband sounds no different then a lot of husband at SR. What we try and do here is empower the spouse to help herself get "better". Meaning detaching from the spouse. What happens in our lives is that our free time is consumed on what "they" are doing or not doing. You will find the healthlier we become we don't care what they are doing. We are living our life and working our program.
I would recommend hitting an alanon meeting or an open AA meeting. You will learns so much from one on one contact with people living the same life. You can get the co-dependent no more book and learn what to do and not to do. Keep reading SR as the people in here have lived our lives and can help with anything you ask.
Keep the faith and do your homework. This will get better, not saying today, or tomorrow. Maybe in a year, but if you do your homework it will get better!!
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,476
The amount of alcohol is never a good way to measure the amount of problems it can cause.
He is right... A bottle a night is not a huge amount but then again it is every single night (correct?)
And im sure his medical condition would be contributing to the problems.
I don't know what the recommended consumption levels are where you live, in Australia it is two "standard" drinks per day.
That's 200mls of 13% abv wine.
So he is consuming approx 7 standard drinks per day.
5 over the scientific and medical research recommendation.
35 over per 7 day cycle.
In that light... A bottle a day can be viewed as excessive.
Sincerely all the best in trying to get your husband some help
He is right... A bottle a night is not a huge amount but then again it is every single night (correct?)
And im sure his medical condition would be contributing to the problems.
I don't know what the recommended consumption levels are where you live, in Australia it is two "standard" drinks per day.
That's 200mls of 13% abv wine.
So he is consuming approx 7 standard drinks per day.
5 over the scientific and medical research recommendation.
35 over per 7 day cycle.
In that light... A bottle a day can be viewed as excessive.
Sincerely all the best in trying to get your husband some help
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 220
I'm so sorry for what has brought you here.
I hear my story in your story. Every part of it. It is just heartbreaking. Alcoholism is a cruel and relentless disease.
Please stick around, read the stickies and remember to take care of you first.
I hear my story in your story. Every part of it. It is just heartbreaking. Alcoholism is a cruel and relentless disease.
Please stick around, read the stickies and remember to take care of you first.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 8
Thank you everyone for your thoughtful responses. I truly appreciate them. It does feel better to know I'm not the only one. I have been reading some of the stickies and I'm looking into al-anon meetings. I am feeling more hopeful though I'm not sure how I'll feel when I go home. I am currently visiting my family out of state and taking time to think about things while I'm away from him. When I am here, it so very easy for me to think, this is crazy, why haven't you left yet? But I know when I go back, I'll fall back into that cycle and somehow convince myself that things are okay (even though they're really not).
And reading about enablers...aahhh that just kills me.
Another thing I wonder is... Is it even possible for him to drink only one or two drinks? If he really wanted to change, would he have to cut out drinking entirely? Or does this depend on the individual?
And reading about enablers...aahhh that just kills me.
Another thing I wonder is... Is it even possible for him to drink only one or two drinks? If he really wanted to change, would he have to cut out drinking entirely? Or does this depend on the individual?
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Powerless ... and free
Posts: 201
I agree with everything Lillamy said. If it's a problem for you, it's a problem.
My alcoholic likewise was a smoker, had thyroid problems, and was a blamer, lethargic, and depressed. Alcohol over time erodes the brain (particularly the frontal lobe, impairing reasoning and good judgment), and it affects the liver and other organs. The thyroid can be affected as well: How Does Alcohol Impact Thyroid Health? | Natural Thyroid Treatment/Graves Disease/Hashimotos Thyroiditis
Regarding one or two drinks, addiction is a nasty thing. I was likewise in limbo a long time thinking maybe he can cut it out, cut it down, change. Never happened. I finally had to create a boundary about what was acceptable for ME. I can't live with an active alcoholic. I filed for divorce, and I am thankful every day for getting a second chance at having a real life.
My alcoholic likewise was a smoker, had thyroid problems, and was a blamer, lethargic, and depressed. Alcohol over time erodes the brain (particularly the frontal lobe, impairing reasoning and good judgment), and it affects the liver and other organs. The thyroid can be affected as well: How Does Alcohol Impact Thyroid Health? | Natural Thyroid Treatment/Graves Disease/Hashimotos Thyroiditis
Regarding one or two drinks, addiction is a nasty thing. I was likewise in limbo a long time thinking maybe he can cut it out, cut it down, change. Never happened. I finally had to create a boundary about what was acceptable for ME. I can't live with an active alcoholic. I filed for divorce, and I am thankful every day for getting a second chance at having a real life.
Bunnies!
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
If you want to know how moderation works, go to the forum for alcoholics and search for the word "moderation". What you'll find is threads on various attempts at cutting back or controlled drinking that failed spectacularly. Every single time. An alcoholic cannot drink, period. Not a sip. It's not the third, fourth, or fifth drink that's the problem- it's the first. Once they take that first drink, it's all over until the next first drink.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Sometimes in earlier stage Alcoholism they play games with themselves convincing themselves that they aren't. This would include stopping drinking for periods of time, lowering the amount they drink for periods of time, switching the kind of alcohol they drink for periods of time, then returning to former drinking habits. Even alcoholics have misconceptions of what alcoholism is. To your husband he may picture an alcoholic as being a person who drinks 24/7 and cannot stop. This is why its called a disease of denial and its how the disease progresses. With these intermittent periods of non-drinking (which hubby is doing for himself btw not for you) hubby can "prove" to himself that he is not an alcoholic; therefore, he can continue to drink and doesn't have to do anything about it.
Whether or not he can moderate depends on whether he is an alcoholic or not. Perhaps he is a heavy drinker and not alcoholic - I don't know - if he is an alcoholic then no, there is no moderation. His behavior IMO would point toward alcoholism because there is no denying that alcohol is a problem in your relationship - yet he won't stop or moderate beyond a certain amount of time. He returns back to high level drinking at the end of each cycle which is not a good sign.
A poster mentioned Bi-Polar - my RAH is also. While I don't see that in the behavior described it certainly is possible. Dual diagnosis is common amongst addictions. To me his behavior more indicative of depression with the amount that he sleeps.
I wouldn't get too wrapped up in other underlying causes as he himself doesn't seem interested in changing or searching for answers. The chicken or the egg game can keep you stuck trying to figure out why. I can tell you its not your fault. Its not the fault of the marriage. If he has depression issues it can attribute yet not all depressed people are alcoholics either.
I strongly suggest you get into an Al-Anon program and not only attend but also work the steps. Alcoholics need co-dependents and enablers to function. Codies make decisions like not going to a wedding they would like to attend because their A can't go. I'd try an stand outside of my marriage and take a look at my own behavior. What am ***I*** giving up because of my husband's drinking? Your list includes not having children and the inability to decide if that's because of him or something you really feel. Big huge red flag.
Stay on here and educate as much as you can. Glad you are here but sorry for the why.
Whether or not he can moderate depends on whether he is an alcoholic or not. Perhaps he is a heavy drinker and not alcoholic - I don't know - if he is an alcoholic then no, there is no moderation. His behavior IMO would point toward alcoholism because there is no denying that alcohol is a problem in your relationship - yet he won't stop or moderate beyond a certain amount of time. He returns back to high level drinking at the end of each cycle which is not a good sign.
A poster mentioned Bi-Polar - my RAH is also. While I don't see that in the behavior described it certainly is possible. Dual diagnosis is common amongst addictions. To me his behavior more indicative of depression with the amount that he sleeps.
I wouldn't get too wrapped up in other underlying causes as he himself doesn't seem interested in changing or searching for answers. The chicken or the egg game can keep you stuck trying to figure out why. I can tell you its not your fault. Its not the fault of the marriage. If he has depression issues it can attribute yet not all depressed people are alcoholics either.
I strongly suggest you get into an Al-Anon program and not only attend but also work the steps. Alcoholics need co-dependents and enablers to function. Codies make decisions like not going to a wedding they would like to attend because their A can't go. I'd try an stand outside of my marriage and take a look at my own behavior. What am ***I*** giving up because of my husband's drinking? Your list includes not having children and the inability to decide if that's because of him or something you really feel. Big huge red flag.
Stay on here and educate as much as you can. Glad you are here but sorry for the why.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
Is it even possible for him to drink only one or two drinks? If he really wanted to change, would he have to cut out drinking entirely? Or does this depend on the individual?
People talk about the F.O.G. of codependency -- Fear, Obligation, and Guilt. That's what clouds your mind when you're around him. It's good to get away and think.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,792
I am wondering if your husband is bipolar because of his alcoholism?
SO much more wisdom posted from others on this thread than I can offer, except that I was also a one bottle per night (sometimes 2).
I had my last drink in March this year, and my partner and I split up. He lives 2-1/2 hours away and is in the advanced stages of his addiction(s).
I didn't drink that excessively before we got together 15 years ago, and came to realize that I was drinking to placate him. I recognize problem drinking patterns even before I met him, but could go for long periods not caring about the stuff. I've made a decision now to not drink at all.
I also read about a highly cultured society lady , maybe in the AA Big Book, who ended up in the program only drinking one glass of wine per day. But, she just HAD to have it.
Good luck to you. Stick with us here, and we'll be a support to you.
SO much more wisdom posted from others on this thread than I can offer, except that I was also a one bottle per night (sometimes 2).
I had my last drink in March this year, and my partner and I split up. He lives 2-1/2 hours away and is in the advanced stages of his addiction(s).
I didn't drink that excessively before we got together 15 years ago, and came to realize that I was drinking to placate him. I recognize problem drinking patterns even before I met him, but could go for long periods not caring about the stuff. I've made a decision now to not drink at all.
I also read about a highly cultured society lady , maybe in the AA Big Book, who ended up in the program only drinking one glass of wine per day. But, she just HAD to have it.
Good luck to you. Stick with us here, and we'll be a support to you.
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
It's a lot to take in. My XAH had a similar trajectory, but unfortunately today his disease has progressed to where he is no longer functional, and relies on his elderly parents for income, board, car, gas, insurance, etc. He too is bipolar, and has high anxiety when he doesn't drink, which ultimately pushes him back to the drink. He also has the narrative that he "deserves" it so he can relax.
I realized on our honeymoon that I made a mistake marrying him, but I dug in and tried to work through it, hoping it was just a phase or depression or something else manageable.
Never in my wildest dreams did I think he was as bad as he was. I eventually found that in addition to the wine habit, my XAH was also hiding vodka and drinking 24/7 at the peak of his disease while we were together. There was the drinking I saw and the drinking I didn't see. He was coasting at work, they all knew he had a problem. He was "napping" all the time, and staying up late to drink when I couldn't nag him about it. There were a lot of minor car bumps, but no DUIs, and a lot of stories that never added up. Later, a lot of my confusion added up to him drinking secretly and covering his tracks.
I realized on our honeymoon that I made a mistake marrying him, but I dug in and tried to work through it, hoping it was just a phase or depression or something else manageable.
Never in my wildest dreams did I think he was as bad as he was. I eventually found that in addition to the wine habit, my XAH was also hiding vodka and drinking 24/7 at the peak of his disease while we were together. There was the drinking I saw and the drinking I didn't see. He was coasting at work, they all knew he had a problem. He was "napping" all the time, and staying up late to drink when I couldn't nag him about it. There were a lot of minor car bumps, but no DUIs, and a lot of stories that never added up. Later, a lot of my confusion added up to him drinking secretly and covering his tracks.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I am sorry you are dealing with this and very glad you found this site.
The thing is, he has researched alcohol withdraw symptoms himself, he admits he cannot stop and does not want to, it causes him to miss work and certainly miss out on life in general, he has detatched from friends, could not go to Canada due to a DUI....do you see where I am going with this? Every alcoholic is different, but when drinking disrupts life, it's a problem. Be thankful he is not a mean drunk.
I say put the focus on you. What you want and deserve out of life, and your goals in how to attain those things. Try out Alanon or have some sort of face to face support system in place for YOU.
I wish you all the best.
XXX
The thing is, he has researched alcohol withdraw symptoms himself, he admits he cannot stop and does not want to, it causes him to miss work and certainly miss out on life in general, he has detatched from friends, could not go to Canada due to a DUI....do you see where I am going with this? Every alcoholic is different, but when drinking disrupts life, it's a problem. Be thankful he is not a mean drunk.
I say put the focus on you. What you want and deserve out of life, and your goals in how to attain those things. Try out Alanon or have some sort of face to face support system in place for YOU.
I wish you all the best.
XXX
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 5
So much of what you said in your post reminds me of me a few years ago. I was also not sure of so many things.
Were we unhappy because of the drinking, or was the drinking so bad because we were unhappy. Although if you asked him, I was the only one who was unhappy and "everything was fine" to him. This perpetuated the "its your problem, not mine" thinking and I started to really be hard on myself for all of the issues we were having.
By the time I got myself to therapy, to figure out if I really was crazy or not for being unhappy with his drinking all the while he was insisting it wasn't an issue except for me being too naggy about it, I was so lost and didn't even recognize myself anymore (although I didn't realize that until much much later).
There was also the drinking I saw, and the drinking I didn't see...so I knew about the one or 2 glasses...what I didn't know about was the other 4 or 5 drinks he was having, or the fact that the 1 or 2 I was seeing were all vodka, and not vodka mixed with water or sprite making them the equivalent of way more than 1 or 2 "normal" drinks.
Agree with other posters that everyone and every situation is different, but if you are not ok with what is going on, it is unacceptable to you. You should not have to tolerate unacceptable behavior from anyone...you just have to be strong enough to realize you are worth that boundary.
It took a lot of therapy, and al-anon, and lurking here reading for me to finally realize that I was worth that boundary. I hope that you can do the same for yourself. Read and learn as much as you can...it has helped me tremendously in my own recovery.
BTW, my RAH has 2 years sober this week..and although I can't take credit for that at all (he did, and does, the hard work himself) I do believe that my enforcing what was acceptable to me and what I was willing to live with did help him realize the life he didn't want for himself. Luckily he was ready to make the change for himself, which I realize is not always the case.
Good Luck, and just know that you are not alone...so many of us have been there or are there right now. Reaching out for help is an amazing first step, and I wish you the best in finding your own happiness, whatever that might be.
Were we unhappy because of the drinking, or was the drinking so bad because we were unhappy. Although if you asked him, I was the only one who was unhappy and "everything was fine" to him. This perpetuated the "its your problem, not mine" thinking and I started to really be hard on myself for all of the issues we were having.
By the time I got myself to therapy, to figure out if I really was crazy or not for being unhappy with his drinking all the while he was insisting it wasn't an issue except for me being too naggy about it, I was so lost and didn't even recognize myself anymore (although I didn't realize that until much much later).
There was also the drinking I saw, and the drinking I didn't see...so I knew about the one or 2 glasses...what I didn't know about was the other 4 or 5 drinks he was having, or the fact that the 1 or 2 I was seeing were all vodka, and not vodka mixed with water or sprite making them the equivalent of way more than 1 or 2 "normal" drinks.
Agree with other posters that everyone and every situation is different, but if you are not ok with what is going on, it is unacceptable to you. You should not have to tolerate unacceptable behavior from anyone...you just have to be strong enough to realize you are worth that boundary.
It took a lot of therapy, and al-anon, and lurking here reading for me to finally realize that I was worth that boundary. I hope that you can do the same for yourself. Read and learn as much as you can...it has helped me tremendously in my own recovery.
BTW, my RAH has 2 years sober this week..and although I can't take credit for that at all (he did, and does, the hard work himself) I do believe that my enforcing what was acceptable to me and what I was willing to live with did help him realize the life he didn't want for himself. Luckily he was ready to make the change for himself, which I realize is not always the case.
Good Luck, and just know that you are not alone...so many of us have been there or are there right now. Reaching out for help is an amazing first step, and I wish you the best in finding your own happiness, whatever that might be.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 8
Thank you all so much for your thoughtful responses. I am so hopeful to start making changes. I have been unhappy for far too long and sacrificed more than I should have. It's funny because many people would describe me as opinionated and willful...and yet when you look at my marriage, there is so much where I have simply "sucked it up" and I really shouldn't have (many more examples I have not described here).
He isn't going to change until he wants to. What do I do? Am I supposed to give him an ultimatum? Stop drinking now and if you slip up I'm gone? I don't know where you draw the line between giving them the chance to change and then saying that's it. He has always known I did not like his drinking. I tried my hardest to not be a nag. To me, we already had the discussions where he said he'll change when he wants to. I purposely did not tell him or remind him that I wanted him to change his drinking habits. To me, this was implied, was this completely wrong?? But three years have passed and the drinking is still the same and our relationship has suffered greatly (but I'm not sure I can pinpoint it down to alcohol being the main cause).
I know I am not perfect, I am a cause as well. I'm an enabler. I don't know why I am trying to find reasons to justify blaming myself so I can keep hanging on, telling myself I just haven't tried. In the good moments, I tell myself, things are okay, I can be okay, we can be okay, we can do this. But those moments are coming fewer and farther between...
When I came back last night, he said, I'm going to start after tomorrow (because we will be celebrating our friends' marriage today and yes a fight will ensue if I insinuate anything about his drinking). He wants to eat healthy, lose weight, and exercise again. Cut drinking too, of course. This is the endless cycle. He says he will stop, but I can't harp on him about it, if he slips up, he slips up. So where do I draw the line? What am I waiting for?? Why do I keep letting him get away with slipping up?? I'm at my wit's end, close to leaving, then he says he'll change and he will do it, for awhile, until he slips again and here I am in limbo...waiting for the day that might never come. Where do I stop?? For those who left their spouses, how did you finally do it? What was the last straw, where you finally cut it off?
Honestly, I am not afraid to be alone, to start over alone. Where I hesitate is the act of telling him, hurting him when I let him know I've given up on him and want to move on. I don't know why it's so hard for me to take action to make ME happy.
He isn't going to change until he wants to. What do I do? Am I supposed to give him an ultimatum? Stop drinking now and if you slip up I'm gone? I don't know where you draw the line between giving them the chance to change and then saying that's it. He has always known I did not like his drinking. I tried my hardest to not be a nag. To me, we already had the discussions where he said he'll change when he wants to. I purposely did not tell him or remind him that I wanted him to change his drinking habits. To me, this was implied, was this completely wrong?? But three years have passed and the drinking is still the same and our relationship has suffered greatly (but I'm not sure I can pinpoint it down to alcohol being the main cause).
I know I am not perfect, I am a cause as well. I'm an enabler. I don't know why I am trying to find reasons to justify blaming myself so I can keep hanging on, telling myself I just haven't tried. In the good moments, I tell myself, things are okay, I can be okay, we can be okay, we can do this. But those moments are coming fewer and farther between...
When I came back last night, he said, I'm going to start after tomorrow (because we will be celebrating our friends' marriage today and yes a fight will ensue if I insinuate anything about his drinking). He wants to eat healthy, lose weight, and exercise again. Cut drinking too, of course. This is the endless cycle. He says he will stop, but I can't harp on him about it, if he slips up, he slips up. So where do I draw the line? What am I waiting for?? Why do I keep letting him get away with slipping up?? I'm at my wit's end, close to leaving, then he says he'll change and he will do it, for awhile, until he slips again and here I am in limbo...waiting for the day that might never come. Where do I stop?? For those who left their spouses, how did you finally do it? What was the last straw, where you finally cut it off?
Honestly, I am not afraid to be alone, to start over alone. Where I hesitate is the act of telling him, hurting him when I let him know I've given up on him and want to move on. I don't know why it's so hard for me to take action to make ME happy.
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
Just recognizing the issues and reaching out for help is a huge step, you are also owning responsibility for your part of it, which I personally was VERY slow to do. HE had the problem, not me, right?
You don't have to do anything today, there's no rush to make any major decisions until YOU feel ready.
I was in a relationship with DV in addition to alcoholism, so I left in a rush for my children's and my safety. If you are safe and there's no pressing need to leave, then you can take the time you need to feel ready.
I didn't see Alanon mentioned anywhere, so I thought I'd throw it out there. Face to face support is a huge advantage in a situation like yours. I started going after my breakup, and it helped me a lot. Just being in a room with people who understand what you are going through and have been there themselves makes such a difference. Think of it like SR PLUS. Try a few meetings, work on you, shift your focus to yourself and it will be easier to make those major decisions as you recover and gain self esteem and learn to trust yourself.
Hugs!
You don't have to do anything today, there's no rush to make any major decisions until YOU feel ready.
I was in a relationship with DV in addition to alcoholism, so I left in a rush for my children's and my safety. If you are safe and there's no pressing need to leave, then you can take the time you need to feel ready.
I didn't see Alanon mentioned anywhere, so I thought I'd throw it out there. Face to face support is a huge advantage in a situation like yours. I started going after my breakup, and it helped me a lot. Just being in a room with people who understand what you are going through and have been there themselves makes such a difference. Think of it like SR PLUS. Try a few meetings, work on you, shift your focus to yourself and it will be easier to make those major decisions as you recover and gain self esteem and learn to trust yourself.
Hugs!
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: somewhere south
Posts: 510
All of your post is very similar to my experience when I first got here. I too wondered if my AH was actually an alcoholic. The more I learned and read the more I could see he was.
My STBXAH drinks a bottle of wine per day, isnt mean or abusive in any sort of way, comes home from work and drinks everyday, goes to work everyday, naps every weekend and is lazy to get out of bed when he doesnt have to work, has the "shakes" from withdrawals too. MY STBXAH is an alcoholic. He will not stop and chooses not to stop. he tried all that moderation too and promised the sun, moon and stars but he wasnt ready or willing to give up his one true love, the bottle. His disease has progressed and now he has lost his job, lost his family-we are divorcing and have kids, lost his savings. He is now living off his elderly parents, a shame because he had so much potential.
Chances are, if you are here than there is a real problem in your marriage no matter what you label it. For me what helped was to join Alanon and work on myself. I learened about my role on all of this and how I can be happy no matter what AH does, drinking or not drinking.
Another good book is "Under the Influence". It describes the stages of alcoholism and what alcohol does to the body at each stage. Read as much as you can and feel free to post anytime. We all undertand what you are going through.
My STBXAH drinks a bottle of wine per day, isnt mean or abusive in any sort of way, comes home from work and drinks everyday, goes to work everyday, naps every weekend and is lazy to get out of bed when he doesnt have to work, has the "shakes" from withdrawals too. MY STBXAH is an alcoholic. He will not stop and chooses not to stop. he tried all that moderation too and promised the sun, moon and stars but he wasnt ready or willing to give up his one true love, the bottle. His disease has progressed and now he has lost his job, lost his family-we are divorcing and have kids, lost his savings. He is now living off his elderly parents, a shame because he had so much potential.
Chances are, if you are here than there is a real problem in your marriage no matter what you label it. For me what helped was to join Alanon and work on myself. I learened about my role on all of this and how I can be happy no matter what AH does, drinking or not drinking.
Another good book is "Under the Influence". It describes the stages of alcoholism and what alcohol does to the body at each stage. Read as much as you can and feel free to post anytime. We all undertand what you are going through.
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