happybeingme

Honeypig big hugs!!!

You are absolutely within your rights to want to talk things out. He caused the problems its his job to help fix them. As a recovering alcoholic myself I understand the extreme guilt, discomfort and shame that one is faced with when they finally put down the bottle. But, you know what? Too bad for the recovering drunk. I firmly believe it is my responsibilty to help heal the pain and rebuild the trust. That is my responsibility as a wife and mother.

Yo deserve to be treated with kindness, love and respect. Your husband in my opinion is not honoring you as his wife. I cant imagine your pain right now. But, I do care. Be well. Love yourself and lean on us when the burden gets too heavy.

Overit23

Honeypig big hug~bottom line if he wants to drink he will nothing you can do~
I told mine to leave best thing I could do for my own sanity~each day I feel myself
getting stronger and the craziness in leaving. We are seeing a counselor but bottom line we both need to work on ourselves first~

BoxinRotz

Oh honeypig. My RAH was like this too and without his counselor, I don't think we'd of gotten past it. My husband did not understand that his recovery sent me through triggers of his past drinking. Like sitting on the back porch. That was his spot and even though he wasn't drinking, it sent me to that place and I'd start on him. It'd get ugly. We went together to see his lady and we talked about what he felt my problem was and I told them what it was. I ended up walking out in tears because he felt I shouldn't feel that way. I just needed to put things away and have him say, I'm so sorry for everything and acknowledge that the lies, the bad behavior, verbal abuse, the chaos was not my fault and that it was all over.

He could never talk about it Honey because it hurt him. Never mind me but him, it hurt to think about it and talk about it. I dont know what his lady told him after I walked out but he came out 25 minutes later very sorry. The week after, we were talking and came up on the time he was taken out by the cops for the brain scan. He said, I dont want to talk about this!!! OOhhhhh... I need to talk about this!!! I saw it click and he's been doing very well! I'm proud of him!!!

He's had urges to drink that he talks about with his lady. It's normal she says. It's how he deals with them. He says he's tired of hurting himself and tge people he loves.

It sounds like your husband has not taken responsibility for his drinking. Until he can accept all of the carnage he has caused, he will not get better. He has to accept his down falls no matter how much it hurts him. My husband's hurt him deeply and his continuously pushing them away kept him in the bottle.

ladyscribbler

Tight ((((()))) hugs to you HP. Glad to hear you were able to at least get a little rest.

hopeful4

Awe HP, I send you much love and big hugs!!!!

That always drove me crazy too, that ability to just cut it off and go to sleep. What????
In the end, the resentments were overwhelming me. I could never be w/him again, even if he would be stone cold sober. I don't like who he is. When I realized that, it hit me like a brick and I never turned back.

Breathe. It's going to be ok no matter what you decide.

We love you!!!!

FireSprite

(((((((Honeypig)))))))

I'm so sorry to read this post today. It sounds like you have really taken your time with this decision & that you've done as much as one person can do to fix a relationship by themselves. This is EXACTLY how I felt during that time when RAH was dry/sober but not reallllllly working a program. He continually minimized the damage of his past actions & that is NOT taking accountability. I agree so much with what Box said here:

My RAH was the same way - yes, it hurt him, yes he wanted to just sweep it all under the rug... but that's not something that I could do & also move forward in our relationship. That would be OK for me if we were splitting & going our separate ways I think, but it's not a solid foundation to build a newly healed relationship on, IMO.

Honestly, I could handle the drinking way better than the lies any day (as silly as that may sound). I still question & doubt RAH more than he would like but I told him he's going to have to suck it up & deal with it because trust that was destroyed over many years in many ways is simply not going to be rebuilt in a few weeks or months. I need lots & lots of time & many, many new examples of changed behavior before that knee-jerk reaction is going to just stop. When he relapsed last fall he changed up his AA routine & changed sponsors & I *think* he has helped him to see this side of things better.

Honey, you are STRONG, you have worked your recovery & grown so much! We have seen your growth here at SR & it doesn't surprise me that the person you are now is not tolerant of the person that he is now if he's not experiencing the same kinds of growth in his own recovery.

You deserve to be treated with respect & love & kindness & do not need to settle for anything less than that.

firebolt

Sending you strength and peace....so much empathy here. (((HUGS)))

honeypig

BrokenInPieces, yes, you summed it up. It's the feeling that things aren't right, and the beating myself up b/c I am suspicious and gosh, a good wife would believe her husband, right? Even though all my belief in the past got me nothing but more and more deceit and lies, I still feel this way to some extent. At least now I can identify that it's ridiculous for me to think I owe him trust.

SallyTaylor, yes, I do feel that I've given him a good fair chance. Again, I have a niggling codependent thought of "well, maybe he just needs a little more time", but as I said above, I at least know enough now to realize how foolish that would likely be.

wellington1, I could not agree more--a decent night's sleep and some good food make all the difference. I learned this when my dog died several years ago and the knowledge will doubtless stand me in good stead thru this, too.

happybeingme, thank you especially for your post from "the other side of the street." You and BoxinRotz have both bolstered my feeling that I'm right to expect him to take responsibility for the damage he's done. He seems to feel that he's done enough, and that HE gets to set the timetable for MY recovery. Oh, and also to say what my recovery will entail. Wrong.

FireSprite, once again, it seems our situations have many parallels. It will never cease to amaze me how simply hearing that someone else is or has been in your shoes seems to ease the burden, just by knowing you're not alone.

ALL of you folks--I can feel your hugs and support (especially that grizzly hug, lillamy!). I got thru the workday--I'm glad I have a fair amount of time to myself between stops in which to think or cry or both, as I needed it.

I saw RAH this AM very briefly as I got ready to leave for work. He commented that I didn't sound right when I talked. I said well, a good long cry will do that for you. He claimed to not have known I was crying last night, and that's why he went to bed. He also wants to "talk about things" this afternoon after I'm done at job #2. Quack, quack, super atomic ballistic quack with fringe and sparkles on it!!! There is no possible way to have talked to me and looked at me last night and not known I was crying.

My dear, dear friends, I feel as if I'm taking the first steps out onto a tightrope, high above Niagara Falls. I'm scared and teetering, but with all of you to help me keep my balance, I know I won't fall.

Oh, and this came in my daily email from The Easier Softer Way, a Buddhist recovery site:
Mindfulness Practice for the Day: Today, don't push the suffering away. Use it as an opportunity to learn. This kind of stuff can almost scare a person, the way it comes along at the exact moment it's needed...

Florence

HP, I'm so sorry. You've done the work, you know how this works, you got it.

atalose

Divorce can be good news. I know that sounds weird but it’s true because no good marriage has ever ended in divorce. That’s never happened – that would be sad. And it’s even sadder to hang on/hold on to someone who probably will never be able to give you the mutual respect needed to keep and make a good marriage last.

Funny you picked the words – DÉJÀ VU – it is a feeling that you’ve already seen or been somewhere, only this time you can pick where it goes from here and write your own script. You no longer want to follow the old one because you are now aware of exactly where it leads you.

Endings are sad, fear grows and grief seems insurmountable but you will not only survive you will thrive!!

((hugs))

lillamy

Forgive me if I'm talking out of turn but... it sounds a bit like this:

"I wanted him to get sober and now that he's sober I don't know if I have the right to leave him because he did everything I asked him and I'm still not happy. Maybe he's right, maybe I am the problem after all."

So here's my response to that: You only have this one life. You have every right to live it the way you feel is most conducive to you being content, joyful, and happy. My sponsor, back when I was still married to an active A and kept saying "if only he'd stop drinking", gave me this analogy:

You buy a new sweater. Then you're out and someone spills red wine on it. Your sweater is ruined and you are upset. You think "if only I could get the stain out." So you pour salt on it and stain remover and throw it in the washer. The stain comes out, but the sweater has changed shape in the washer, and it doesn't feel like the same sweater you tossed in there.

She said rehab is like that. You walk in one side, and the person who comes out the other side is a different person. Not just a different person than the addict who walked in, but a different person than the person they were before the addiction grabbed hold of them. That's why sometimes people who go to rehab come home and stay for a while and leave. That's why sometimes people whose loved one goes to rehab stay for a while after they get out and then leave.

And that's OK.

So I'm passing that message on to you. You are not living with the same man you married. Or the same man who went to rehab. And honestly? Even if you were, you are not the same person. And it's OK. It's painful and scary but it's OK.

atalose

If he wasn’t a piano player before he got sober then he’s not going to be one after.

Often the alcohol masks things certain character traits we blame away on the booze and what the booze does to them or it makes them act. When in fact those same character trails were there all along.

ladyscribbler

I saw another post on an old thread about verbal abuse where someone had said that they gave the alcohol too much credit for the bad behavior. I know I did that for a long time.
My ex husband was not an alcoholic, he used to have one beer and stop, which blew my mind, because I'd never seen anyone drink that way growing up. But it meant he wasn't an alcoholic, so I felt OK about marrying him despite the other reservations I was having. Those reservations mainly revolved around his bad habit of "stretching the truth" and "white lies."
In fact he was a compulsive liar, would lie even when the truth was obvious to anyone with eyeballs in their head, half a brain and internet access. He would lie when the truth would have served him better. He would tell one lie then turn around and contradict himself with another lie on top of the first one. He lied about big things, small things, anything, to the point where it was ludicrous to try having a conversation with him.
I spent a year in Iraq and when I returned I realized that I couldn't spend another minute married to someone I fundamentally could not trust. The timing sucked, I was a mess, mentally and emotionally, my finances took years to recover, but none of that mattered as much as truth and respect.
He's passed away now, so I usually don't talk about him much, but the story seemed relevant here.

Shellcrusher

Hugs!

When I'm in the dark I do my best to count the blessings. It's super hard but after the first one, I start feeling better. It gets my focus off the negative RAW and back on me. I'm also learning that it's okay to go through sadness and feel it. Just like an alcoholic will drink away their pain and not even know it, the codie or family/friend will fall back on their own habits of trying to control away the drinking. Not saying that's what you're doing. Just saying that emotions get lost and ignored on both sides of the fences behind coping techniques that can be so strong, we don't even know it's happening.

This is coming from a raging, resentful, fighter who sees life in Black and Red.

I'll start.

I'm glad your fingers work well enough to reach out and let us know what's up.

honeypig

Hmm, RAH decided to cancel the "talk", as he feels that I'm going to do whatever I want to do anyway. Probably just as well.

He also apologized for his words and actions last night. It would be great, if I hadn't heard something very similar so many times before.

I've been reading and breathing and counting my lucky stars that I'm here at SR when this is all happening.

Shellcrusher, I'm grateful for SR and for my 2 warm houndies. I thought this AM of starting a gratitude journal--thanks for giving me an extra push.

I know this is going to be sad and painful and lonely at times. I also know there is no way out but thru.

maia1234

I am so sorry that you need to do this. It's horrible, but rotten things, we all need to do.

I just noticed you are from wisconsin. I live on the wisconsin/ illinois border. I am sending warm hugs to you, my neighbor!!!

gleefan

((Honeypig)) - Inspiring of you to move forward towards happiness and fulfillment.

readerbaby71

From Pema Chodron Heart Advice today:

STAY PRESENT, WITHOUT SECURITY

Instead of asking ourselves, “How can I find security and happiness?” we could ask ourselves, “Can I touch the center of my pain? Can I sit with suffering, both yours and mine, without trying to make it go away? Can I stay present to the ache of loss or disgrace—disappointment in all its many forms—and let it open me?” This is the trick.

Thinking of you and hoping you are doing better today. xoxoxo

honeypig

RB, thank you so much for that! It is absolutely perfect. Thanks so much for your concern. It means so much to me that I have friends who have my back for this.

I just got home from work, will be back a bit later to update after I've changed and decompressed a bit.

honeypig

So as I was about to leave for work this AM, RAH is once again awake and is telling me "we don't have to do this, we can go to counseling, we just need some help to heal." Wants to talk about things when he gets home from work.

I thought about this all day, trying to define what I want, what to say, what to keep to myself. Decided if he wanted to try counseling, I'd go, but I would NOT delay filing for divorce (and it's up to him to find a counselor, schedule appointments, etc). The reason for not delaying is that, in the spring of 2013, we were in the exact same spot. I was on the verge of filing. He broke down in tears, promised to "get help", etc. "Help" consisted of going to AA meetings, yes, but also of continuing to drink while lying to me and his sponsor about it until in July I found his stash (first, last and only time I'd ever looked). Thence followed a year of alleged recovery/sobriety, but I do have my doubts about that.

Now here we are again, I'm on the verge of filing, and he's saying "oh, I'll change, I'll do better, we need help." Same song, different verse.

And the talk after work? Again, never happened. And again, it would have been only words, I guess, so what would it matter...

It's like he gets scared when he's alone in the wee hours and then gets braver during the day. I've experienced the same thing myself. That cycle isn't a lot of fun. But again, like they say in Alanon, "say what you mean, mean what you say."

So much has gone thru my heart and mind in these past couple of days. I do not want to be tied legally to someone I feel I don't even know and probably can't trust. I fear losing what I've worked so hard for, either to his health problems (self-inflicted) or just plain stupid decisions. Does that sound cold and materialistic? I worked my ass off to own my house, car, etc., free and clear. I'm the daughter of bankrupt dairy farmers, and owing nothing to anybody spells freedom for me.

I've even struggled w/the marriage vow thing, but thank heavens I've read enough times here that the vows apply to BOTH partners, not just the non-A! When I first came here, my feelings were almost exclusively fear and anger. While I still have plenty of both, I definitely have some compassion creeping in around the edges--and it's compassion that allows me to feel for him while not feeling I need to sacrifice myself for him. That, I think, is progress.

And it's probably pretty telling that, mixed in w/my concerns about being lonesome, is an equal measure of practical concerns--can I learn to run the snowblower w/o being dragged to my death? The stereo is his; I'll need my own. If I live by myself, will I never EVER vacuum up the dog hair again and be consumed in a giant hairball come spring?

Well, I'm joking now. In an hour, I could be crying again...this life.

Wishing you all a peaceful evening.